Why Don't Underpaid Workers Advocate for Commission-Based Compensation?

SlavOz on 05/06/2022 - 21:06

The people who most often claim to be underpaid always say that they are of immeasurable importance to society and they work so hard and make such a significant impact in the world.

If they really believed that, wouldn't it make more sense to advocate for a commission pay structure? They would stand to make way more than just a flat X% increase on their salaries.

Eg - pay nurses based on patiens triaged/meds administered/lives saved/satisfaction of patients. Pay teachers based on test scores and future success of their pupils. Pay the police per life saved etc.

In other words, we hold them to their word and ask them to walk the walk. Thoughts?

Poll Options

  • 17
    Yes, switch to a commission pay for "underpaid" workers
  • 218
    No, keep them on their current structure
Education & Work

Comments

          • Chandler on 06/06/2022 - 11:57

            @SlavOz: So what happens to little Johnny with the broken arm?

            "Sorry little Johnny - you're condition is not life threatening so you're not worth us spending our time helping ease your suffering. Go see the fracture clinic on Monday when they open. Have a nice weekend!"

            You know how common a burst appendix is?

            Ah good, so as @Trying2SaveABuck said, we're now reducing the commission nurses get since they're getting paid too much for dealing with burst apenndices.

  • pegaxs on 06/06/2022 - 08:01
    +7

    Yeah, let’s make a system where a business owner can just keep moving the goal posts up and up until commission is unobtainable and you never meet KPI’s. We would just end up with a system like the USA where people are paid almost nothing and rely on tips to cover the amount they should be getting paid.

    Christ, you really are a LNP voter, aren’t you. And good to see you kicking nurses in the guts. It’s a nice change from you kicking gays, women, fatties, the vaxxed, other drivers, Labor politicians, etc… in your posts.

    • SlavOz on 06/06/2022 - 09:03
      -3

      Yeah, let’s make a system where a business owner can just keep moving the goal posts up

      The public sector is not a business, and there is no owner. KPIs would be set by a variety if stakeholders including unions.

      Don't be such a knob.

      • SF3 on 06/06/2022 - 09:33
        +5

        The public sector

        They still have a budget, the other way is transition jobs into volunteering, therefore only people that are interested will do a good job/care. Oh wait, that's another sliver bullet /s.

        Don't be such a knob.

        rather ironic tbh.

      • pegaxs on 06/06/2022 - 11:44
        +1

        The public sector is not a business

        Nowhere in your OP did you say it was for public sector jobs only. And I can assure you that there are privately employed teachers and nurses.

        Don't be such a knob.

        Yeah, that's a bit rich coming from you… Time to heed your own advice?

      • singlemalt72 on 06/06/2022 - 15:06
        +2

        The public sector is not a business
        Yes, parts of it are, I work within a State-Owned Corporation

  • MontyMacaw on 06/06/2022 - 08:17

    Simple answer to the questionable question: The system doesn’t work that way. Lower paid workers are supposed to be lower paid so the people at the top of the money pyramid get super rich. Blame the government and in turn the voters as well.

  • deme on 06/06/2022 - 09:00
    +1

    WTF dude

  • seraphim2017 on 06/06/2022 - 09:25
    +4

    You can't set a KPI based on outcome where you have no control over incoming variables. Teachers have no control over academic aptiutude of their cohort, only over how much progress they can help them make. Police have no control over level of crime being perpetrated, only how quickly they can respond based on resources, Nurses have no control over severity of cases coming in and survival ratios, only how they can help the outcome. You really want these people doing simply the best they can do (and they mostly do a few bad apples aside) all the time. They generally do.

    A department I once worked for couldn't figure out why we got bad feedback from the feedback we sent out. Turns out some bright spark Slav-Oz ishly decided to send feedback to ALL the people we dealt with, including people we prosecuted! Well, not all the people whose problems was solved gave feedback, but boy did those who got in trouble give feedback!

    Lesson in this, it's better not to feed the troll! Especially one who has no idea how society functions and whose experiences in education and laterl thinking appear to have significantly let them down.

    • SlavOz on 06/06/2022 - 09:58
      -2

      A car salesman can't control how often somebody needs to buy a car. A real estate agent can't really influence someone's decision to buy unless the house is 100% perfect, which is rarely the case.

      Yet these jobs still operate under commission and guess what? The apocalypse has not come. The world is not over. Society has not fallen apart. Amazing!

      If I made a thread about the KPIs at my job being too hard, you'd just stir the pot by saying I need to suck it up because KPIs are there to make sure people get their work done. You're just a contrarian. So your post is not only wrong, it's designed purely to drive disagreement for the sake of it.

      You're the worst kind of shitposter.

      • SydStrand on 06/06/2022 - 10:10
        +6

        A nurse's job isn't to pull a sale from another nurse, or from a competing brand or hospital down the road, nor are they trying to sell a patient on a property. How is this analogous at all?

      • smartazz104 on 07/06/2022 - 10:41

        You're the worst kind of shitposter.

        Oh boy.

  • DarkOz on 06/06/2022 - 09:39
    +3

    What am I reading? Oh wait, it's SlavOz!

  • 01001101 01000010 on 06/06/2022 - 09:55
    +2

    Nah, definitely not for the professions you listed. Artificial incentives don't compare to intrinsic motivation and can undermine someone's intrinsic motivation.

  • ColtNoir on 06/06/2022 - 10:19
    +2

    Was about to write a big speel of why this is (profanity), then I read the username.

    • SlavOz on 06/06/2022 - 11:05

      Is it because you knew your shitty response would get ripped to shreds?

      • ColtNoir on 06/06/2022 - 14:01

        I truly hope when you’re in need of help I hospital, that the nurse and doctor treating you have KPI’s and that treating you doesn’t meet them.

  • randomusername2017 on 06/06/2022 - 10:50

    These polls would have more impact if they became slavbargain weekly random platforms.

  • Chandler on 06/06/2022 - 11:59
    +1

    I love how your polls are always biased… you're consistent, at least.

    Yes, switch to a commission pay for "underpaid" workers
    No, keep them on their current structure

    What if I don't like the current structure, but don't want to move to a commission structure either?

    • SlavOz on 06/06/2022 - 13:33

      I really don't think you understand what biased means. Just because something doesn't accommodate to your specific view, doesn't mean it's biased.

      • Chandler on 06/06/2022 - 15:45

        True, but cmon…

        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/661083

        Are You Concerned about Taking up Too Many Medical Resources?

        • No, my health is more important than society
        • I feel bad but I'll still get the boosters
        • Yes, those resources can be better used elsewhere so I won't be getting boosters

        Where was the poll option for people who aren't concerned about taking up medical resources because they believe they won't, and thus the "my health is more important than society" portion of your poll option is worse than irrelevant (for them)?

        Same situation here: what about people who don't want a commission structure, but don't want to keep the current structure?

  • Diji on 06/06/2022 - 12:02
    +1

    Another day, another SlavOz bit.

  • Slippage on 06/06/2022 - 12:28

    I get what you are trying to say, but you are still very wrong.

    I’ll give you some simple examples:

    Nurses: paid by people treated? You best believe you are going to get a bandaid and some paradox, then sent on your way, no matter what you present with.

    Teachers: paid by test scores? The low achievers kids are going to be booted from the school. Side note: this already happens at private schools a lot “you child isn’t fitting in with our culture and we won’t be offering you a place next year”. Public school? I dunno I guess they will probably be labeled a troubled child? But point is, it’s not going to make the teacher perform “better”.

    Also on the topic of teachers been underpaid… who are you kidding? I know several in both public and private systems and they are Very well compensated.

    • SlavOz on 06/06/2022 - 13:31
      -2

      Hi, thanks for your reply. Your objections were already raised previously in this thread and I have done my best to clarify and address them.

      Hope this helps.

  • GordonD on 06/06/2022 - 12:38
    +1

    I don't agree with the OP.

    But if we're talking about medicine, GPs get paid the way he proposes.

    One GP can decide to give each patient 10 minutes, and no more no matter what, and they make a damn good living. Another GP gives each patient as much time as they need, and only makes half as much money. This is often suggested as the reason female GPs make less than male GPs, even though they are paid exactly the same "commission".

    • May4th on 06/06/2022 - 17:57

      a lawyer charges by the minute, and not by task, as is the case for a lot of trades. bit difficult to set a fee if your issue takes anywhere between 5min to 55min to sort out. i wouldn't want to go through a decade of medical school and training to get paid less than a hairdresser

  • Ughhh on 06/06/2022 - 13:24
    +1

    Is there a day where op doesn't get ripped to shreds?

    • SlavOz on 06/06/2022 - 13:29
      -3

      If that's your take from a thread where some notable replies include:

      • we can't use commission otherwise teachers will kill their bad students

      and

      • we can't use commission because it isn't perfect (implying the current system is)

      or

      • we can't use commission because nurses will compete with each other (already proven to be untrue since public sector is rarely a zero sum game).

      then I have a bridge to sell you back to Woketown.

      • Ughhh on 06/06/2022 - 13:33
        +4

        Love the way your head summarises/simplify things so you can understand it.

  • gromit on 06/06/2022 - 13:57
    +2

    sounds good in theory, but last thing you want is your nurse rushing your triage as she needs to pay for her holiday or your school teacher finding an excuse to expel/exclude your child because it will affect their pay as they are below average. pay for performance is great (I work under such a scheme with various incentives and accelerators) but it doesn't work for all jobs.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/06/2022 - 14:08

    never improved those critical thinking skills hey slavvy?

    • [Deactivated] on 06/06/2022 - 14:19

      He has a blog!!!!!!!!!!!!

      wait …….. are OzB forums his 'blog'?

  • StingyBritches on 06/06/2022 - 14:23
    +2

    All you nurses over there, we’re gonna swap you out with all these car salesmen over here!

    Let the games begin!

    • moar bargains on 06/06/2022 - 21:35

      Hey, I've just had an awesome idea for a reality TV drama!

  • Jaysful on 06/06/2022 - 14:41
    +3

    Appreciate OP's bravery to throw out such a naive view of the world.

    For teachers, you will love China, where teachers either fake test scores to get bonus for ignoring under-privileged kids. And certain teachers gain special status to run 'advanced' classes where parents would be obligated to bribe their way to have their kid enorle in them.

    As for your view on nurses… you might be mistaking Australian nurses for waitresses in USA. Where they bend over backwards and annoys the shit out of you during your meal to earn a tip.

    When incentives outweight the well-being of everyone, exploitations creep in. And it will not only fk things up on a transactional level, it'll have culture ramifications at a societal level. Inn my view that's way worse than a few harmless 'bludgers' here and there. Unethical work place practice is harmful whilst a bludger is not.

  • Brianqpr on 06/06/2022 - 15:59

    Best read up on the financial services royal commission and then reconsider the question.

  • May4th on 06/06/2022 - 18:00
    +1

    if the public health system switched to a commission based system we would be bankrupt overnight. the health system has been overburdened and dependant on its staff doing extra work overtime for so long it's almost the norm to have one person do the job of 3 FTEs

  • cookie2 on 06/06/2022 - 20:02

    I think it comes down to the job role but I don't think all roles should be incentivised through commissions as some roles would be difficult to select kpi structures where the most important things are all measurable. I do think there's more space for commission in low paid jobs to encourage more/higher quality work but I wouldn't do this in a healthcare or teaching setting. Plus I don't consider those roles 'low paid'. Yearly or half yearly bonuses are one thing, commissions are another. I know in my role, i would've felt more valued and incentivised to work harder. I do it now, but that's because I care. We all have things that motivate us and financial is definitely one way to encourage better quality of service/work, if implemented and managed properly.

  • connorlo on 07/06/2022 - 09:03
    +1

    Geewiz, why all the hate towards SlavOz. He simply proposed a question, no need to get nasty. I personally don't want it fully commission based, but something where they have a pretty good base line (possibly what they are on now… I don't know) and then can get rewarded (via bonus etc) for being above the rest. I've worked in a pay band type structure and there was absolutely no incentive for doing more work than the guy next to you, it sucked.

    • whatgift on 08/06/2022 - 10:00
      +1

      I think the reaction is more to do with SlavOz’s post history, which frequently seems to be intentionally designed to get the strongest reaction rather than a reasonable discussion.

      Edit: the wording of the post is a perfect example - showing a distaste for people in certain professions rather than sticking to the point, which is commissions for frontline workers.

      Edit 2: your point about the reaction is somewhat fair though, it just feeds the troll really, giving them what they want.

  • Zondor on 07/06/2022 - 09:16

    Look how well it works for American Hospitality lol

  • damo005 on 07/06/2022 - 11:00
    +2

    Long time lurker here but after reading this I have to say something. Not sure whether to laugh or facepalm at this post.

    OP from what I've been reading with this post and other posts you have made, it is clearly evident that you have very little insight in how any of these industries work.

    Coming from a healthcare background in Melbourne (Paramedic), partner is a police officer, have friends/family who are nurses and teachers, it sounds like you want all these state run industries to be privatized. Trust me it will not work!!

    For example. You say that Nurses should get commission based on patient's triaged, meds given, lives saves etc. For medications alone, someone who is 30 years old is more than likely going to be on a lot less medications say as someone who is 80 years old with multiple chronic medical conditions. Nurses usually have at least 1 to every 4 patient's, so would it be fair if a nurse who has patient's with less medications get less money than another nurse on the same ward who has to dish out more medications due to their patient's requiring more even though they could be just as busy. And lives saved? tell that to a nurse who works in oncology or palliative care. A triage nurse in a public hospital would have their mortgage paid off in less than a year with the amount of patient’s they triage in a shift..

    Teachers would not work with test scores alone because every student is different due to their personality, intelligence, the way they a brought up, socio economic status etc. You could be the best teacher win the world, but if you are dealing with some very difficult students, sometimes no matter how hard you try, some students will not get good marks. Would that be fair on that teacher who has worked their butt off get less money compared to another teacher who had good students keen to learn. It is just way too dynamic.

    Police, rarely have to save lives, most of the time the front line divisional vans are tied up with domestic issues and mental health.

    You mentioned that you've had nothing but bad experiences with nurses. I'm sorry if you've this what you've experienced, but from what I've learnt in the years I've been doing this, if this is happening on nearly every occasion it usually comes down to the patient than the staff itself. If you treat us like crap, we are not going to suck up and pander to your every need. We’re not hospitality or sales people. I'm not sure if you've seen the news about the health care crisis, it is almost 10 fold worse than what they are reporting on at the moment. Everyone who works in health care from doctors, nurses, paramedics and other health staff are all very tired and burnt out. But we are trying our best, and it doesn't help when we have people like you telling us we need to walk the walk

    • SlavOz on 07/06/2022 - 11:26
      -3

      Everyone who works in health care from doctors, nurses, paramedics and other health staff are all very tired and burnt out.

      Do you not see how this comes off as completely narcissistic? Everyone is burnt out and tired. We've all suffered just as much as you.

      Most people either lost their jobs or their roles became so much harder and more stressful. It wasn't pleasant either way. Then you factor in the social and personal repercussions we've all had to endure. People forced away from their loved ones for over 2 years. Businesses and mortgages sunk. Children's development and education disrupted. Libraries, chiropractors, and even some medical services shut down. Some people even had to postpone their cancer surgeries due to all this.

      The fact that you can see all this and your first response is "look how hard we nurses have it!" just reeks of sociopath behaviour. You're so self absorbed.

      • May4th on 07/06/2022 - 11:31

        yes we can tell the pandemic hasn't been kind to you from your posts..

      • damo005 on 07/06/2022 - 13:01
        +5

        I don't believe I'm being Narcissistic or self-absorbed at all. You highlighted those industries and I responded accordingly. For you to already start resorting to calling me these things just shows how little of a constructive argument you have.

        Trust me I know everyone has suffered because of this pandemic. I see it every shift on the front lines effecting people both physically and mentally. All I can do is put on my uniform on and help out the best way I can. I've also had friends who have lost jobs or business due to lockdowns. I’m a parent myself and have friends who have also home schooled their kids and it has effected their development. But the teachers are trying their best, everyone is trying their best, including the nurses who you seem to target in particular.

        But based on the posts I've seen, it seems like you have a massive chip on your shoulder with Nurses for some reason, but seem very naive in how the health industry works, or many industries it seems. Privatising it all and turning us all into salespeople will sink the industry within 5 minutes.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 07/06/2022 - 12:10
    +2

    If the OP was paid $1 for every good comment he makes, then he would be receiving nothing this year.

  • Dack Smith on 07/06/2022 - 12:26
    +1

    OP is a perfect faultless human deserving all praises while nurses are horrible in his words, all horrible.

    I wonder if we can dock his pay for his mistakes and poor mannerisms, both of which never happens by the way.

    OP is the super medical professional that apparently knows all and can do all procedures right?

    Superior to any nurse in history LOL

    We don’t need hospitals or the pubic service… we just need SlaveOz only hahahahahaha

  • nandystam on 07/06/2022 - 14:28
    +4

    On behalf of all other slav's, I do humbly apologise.

  • tessel on 07/06/2022 - 18:42
    +1

    I can tell you've never taught children in a classroom at a school for any length of time. First, a lot of the problems teachers face could be resolved if parents actually tried to be parents and they got support they needed. It's amazing how much can be achieved when children are paying attention, respect the teacher and others and come to school with the required equipment. None of the aforementioned is in any curriculum but it has a major impact on the "results" you are talking about. I'm not going to try and explain any further because until you experience it you have nfi.

  • greater mimic on 07/06/2022 - 20:46

    Thanks for another entertaining read Slav

  • KapitaneXtreme on 07/06/2022 - 22:22
    +1

    Congratulations. This may be the most confidently idiotic, ignorant, self-serving pile of garbage my eyeballs have ever had the misery to peruse.

  • whatgift on 08/06/2022 - 10:01

    It could be argued that commission does not work well in any industry currently, so applying it to other industries is a terrible idea.

  • node modules on 08/06/2022 - 11:27

    moral hazard

  • [Deactivated] on 08/06/2022 - 12:39
    -1

    Curious, are you just getting lonely wfh and create these repetitive, borderline troll posts for attention, or are you just an out of touch boomer?(in which case you will be at the mercy of a few professionals in your list pretty soon). Find better ways to entertain yourself.

  • brou on 08/06/2022 - 13:33

    Interested why you chose nurses, teachers, police officers as being examples of professions being underpaid… I figured there would be others earning much less than them?

  • drfuzzy on 08/06/2022 - 13:36
    +1

    Hello SlavOz / OnionPeeler / preffered alt name of the day,
    I lose a few points of IQ every time I read one of your posts.
    One of us really should stop.
    Thanks for listening.

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