Should We Have The Right to Opt out Medicare and Full in with Private Health Insurance or Vice Versa?

plastererJazz on 17/05/2022 - 15:03
Last edited 17/05/2022 - 23:18

We all pay the medicare levy as we are covered by the public health system. some pay surcharge and loading even.

Could or should an individual have the right to opt-out from medicare completely and go full-on with private insurance at their own risk?

I believe a lot of people go for the basic tax-effective cover to avoid surcharge and loading and these covers probably only cover items covered by medicare already.

Some company websites even brand as tax saving plans.

Scenario 1 - public only, he/she will pay for levy and surcharge but no MLS.
Scenario 2 - private only, he/she will pay a higher tier of private health insurance but no MLS

So private cover holders only go to private hospitals and medicare holders go to public hospitals?

For example, A pays a $2000 levy and $1000 private insurance to get public health treatment and low to no private health treatment.

Would it A better of paying $3000 or $3500 more for private insurance only to get better private health treatment and free up public resources for others.

Almost forgot that their opposite is to not enrol any private insurance and happily pay for the levy.

Whether buying private insurance or not shouldn't be a tax-related action and the surcharge and MLS should be gone.

Happy discussion

Poll Options

  • 25
    Yes, levy, surcharge and loading are a pain in the ass
  • 761
    No, it will break the public system as fewer pay the levy, private insurance will be more expensive
  • 8
    Others
Health & Beauty Health Insurance Insurance

Comments

    • zombrex on 23/05/2022 - 21:53

      Tried actually using it recently? It's broken and bloated.
      People are dying because they can't even get an ambulance.

  • releasethekr4cken on 19/05/2022 - 14:06
    +2

    One of the big flaws in this line of thinking is that you get better medical care in the Private system. As someone who's watched someone spend significant time in both systems, I would 100% prefer to be in public. Sure the TV might not be good but the medical care is leagues ahead.

  • stealthpaw on 19/05/2022 - 14:54

    I want to just pay a higher levy and have dental covered by Medicare with private clinics able to provide the work.

  • Baghern on 19/05/2022 - 15:59
    +2

    HAHAH you're seriously under estimating a Fully Private Health insurace

    Private Health Insurance takes public money, which is what your medicare levy contributes to

    If there was a Real private insurance that didnt take public money you're looking at way more than 5k

  • johnmatrix on 19/05/2022 - 19:05
    +2

    I had a brain tumour surgery in a private hospital and it wasn't completely removed. I then had to go to a public hospital 9 months later for a second surgery as a public patient even though I have top level health cover, because the private hospitals don't invest in equipment like intraoperative MRI machines that help the surgeon determine if they've actually removed the entire tumour during the surgery. The expense can't be justified for such a rare disease. So private health care has been a waste of money for me and led to me requiring a second brain surgery. It doesn't cover the MRI's I require every 3 months for the rest of my life, the neurosurgeon appointments, the neurologist appointments etc etc. I ended up in the emergency room at a public hospital with medication complications, didn't help me there. I waited 40 hours to get an MRI. So what's the bloody point?

  • xazark on 19/05/2022 - 19:09

    Sure you can do that, stop paying the levy. As long as the government then stops subsidising private health insurance. Watch premiums double, triple or even more overnight.

  • ronafios on 19/05/2022 - 19:45
    +1

    Scomo? Is that you?

  • takemymoney on 20/05/2022 - 00:37
    +2

    Excuse my french, but this idea is quite stupid. I want to see you paying all your retirement money on a private health insurance when you are 70 or more.

    Australia should stop the liberal nonsense and improve Medicare after all.

    1. Increase the MBS values - 40% (30%) of a GP consultation (specialist) is a joke. If you are in the low/med income bracket, you can't sustain frequent payments.

    2. Crack down on doctors rushing consultations. It's baffling that an specialist consultation can take 10min and cost beyond 150 AUD. This money factory should be stopped.

    3. Allow dentists - very hard to help someone find a job if they don't have teeth in the mouth.
    4. Import doctors, stream line the certification, put a special visa for regional areas.
    5. Add a program for apprentices GPs, like Cuba does, to use in a family doctor program, with real, humanized GPs( not money factory wannabes). Good partial medical training can already do a lot in remote and risk communities.
    6. Spend better in health and learn from Europe/Netherlands/France.

    Iwhat about caring for you citizens instead of spending in coal/gas/oil/submarines and using populist tricks to win the election?

    Yes, I'm (profanity) tired of the status quo.

  • billdsl on 20/05/2022 - 08:15

    For me private health is purely another tax. I dont want it but am forced to pay for it due to income. They could at least allow for it to be paid for with pre-tax dollars

    I will never use it for medical coverage at hospitals, we make the best of what we can with a strong extras plan and get some value that way

    But the government can just f**k off with taxes on taxes on taxes, the way the rates increase soon it'll be cheaper to just pay the bloody charge at tax time

  • yokel on 20/05/2022 - 09:08

    Clearly the OP has rarely had any interactions with the health system and is no position to form a proper opinion or influence anyone. Welcome to the Workforce OP and the obligation to pay income tax and be responsible by holding your own private health insurance policy.

  • spasticspeaker on 20/05/2022 - 11:52
    +1

    No, public and private health both pool money to cover the average cost of medical bills of an individual across their lives, essentially playing the stats.

    The difference is that private funds are run first and foremost to generate profit, and public is run first and foremost to provide medical assistance.

    This is not to say the public is perfect but it is without a doubt better to have a system that is fundamentally designed to benefit participants rather than one designed to benefit investors.

    If you have examples of countries where private healthcare better serves the community than public I would be interested to read :)

  • BakaHaze on 20/05/2022 - 13:28
    +1

    This poll also demonstrates no knowledge of how the healthcare system actually works. You can have all the private you want, but a lot of services aren't possible in private. Private ED, private ICU are much different to the public service and typically don't deal with people who are quite as sick, or admit more on an elective rather than emergency basis.

    Private Mental Health is a different universe to public mental health. You wanting to stop paying the medicare levy means also you being happy with the schizophrenic guy wandering on your street corner untreated and talking to himself, half starving to death. Private mental health can't and won't deal with that.

    Emergency surgery is done by the public service. If you had a sudden stroke, the neurosurgeon who fishes out your clot works in public. If you get into a car crash and damage your internal organs, that surgeon who saves your life is public. We train our doctors through the public service. We wouldn't function without public.

    Private is for you to jump the queue on non life threatening treatments and get faster, more timely care. Sometimes it's better, sometimes not. You have more resources, allied health, more time with the specialist. These are luxuries, but not essentials.

    Private only is a complete fantasy, just for practical reasons besides the moral ones already listed by other commenters here.

  • kaitoivan on 20/05/2022 - 13:51

    Hey Ozzy, question, we've been bragging with fellow American that we have universal healthcare but why the hell do I still have to pay for private insurance on top of medicare levy? what's the deal?

    • techlead on 20/05/2022 - 15:06

      Its quite simple.

      Medicare is for the essentials, eg emergency care, hospital stays, child birth etc.

      Private health insurance is for the extra and if you want to skip the queue. For example, dental is not included in medicare, so if you want dental care, you'd need private health insurance. Eg, if you need a new hip, then get in line if you don't have private health insurance, if you do, you can pay abit more and can have the surgery alot quicker with a doctor you hired yourself.

      As with any insurance, its a pooling of risk, you have an issue where only the sick will take out insurance in a fair market. As a young person, why would I pay for something I don't need yet? So as an incentive, the goverment introduced the medicare surcharge and the lifetime loading. So if you earn over a certain threshold and don't have private health insurance, you'd be slugged extra tax as a penalty and it would get progressively more expensive for you the longer you don't have it over the age of 30.

      Like any kind of insurance, you are ungrateful until you need it. Eg, I'm a safe driver, I've never been in an accident nor made any claims, yet I still need to pay for greenslip and comprehensive insurance, just in case. Healthcare is even more of a no brainer, I might go all my life without being in a car accident, but I will definitely need health care, sooner or later, hopefully later, but eventually, I will need it and so do you, no matter how young you are. When you do, you will be grateful for the system here in Australia.

      Its a well thought out system.

  • morse on 20/05/2022 - 14:59
    +1

    You know that when you are admitted to a private hospital some of that is paid by Medicare as well as your private health insurance right? Same for procedures done in private hospitals. The private health system isn't actually completely private.

    • techlead on 20/05/2022 - 15:09

      Exactly, Medicare provides the essentials, the foundation if you will and private health builds on top of it.

  • techlead on 20/05/2022 - 15:02
    +2

    Of course you have a right to opt out of universal health care. Just move to another country, simple. Let's see how much you like the US health system.

  • awaddell on 20/05/2022 - 17:36

    I'd like to opt out of military spending. Can I subscribe to my own paramilitary organisation and only use it when I need it to protect me?

    Sarcasm aside, short answer to OP question No.

    No more than the govt should be subsidizing private schools, it is a choice to opt out and the fees are what they are, our taxes should be used to guarantee a high quality free education, likewise a high quality free public healthcare system. If you want to go over and above, great for you, but you don't get to diminish the pool for everyone else because you can afford something different.

  • Brianqpr on 20/05/2022 - 23:56

    Good luck with that. If you are mega rich then yes it probably could work. Otherwise a ridiculous idea.

  • Oz em on 21/05/2022 - 08:27

    The problem is you may be in an accident and have trauma only a public hospital can treat or need a major surgery that also can’t be done privately.

  • peterw1 on 21/05/2022 - 11:52

    But paying for Medicare and having a Medicare card is one of the tenets of being Australian, along with compulsory voting & paying tax. If you want to opt out, you want to opt out of being Australian. No thanks.

  • random12 on 24/05/2022 - 01:18
    +2

    If anything, it should be the exact opposite.

    Why would anyone want Private Health Insurance. It's a scam.

    I have just started earning over 90k, and now have to look at PHI because of the Medicare Levy Surcharge.

    'Shopping' for Health Insurance is garbage. The policies are worthless, and you literally buy coverage for each individual thing in your body.

    Seriously, look it up:

    DO you want to cover:

    • Heart
    • Kidney
    • Eyes
    • Spine
    • Cancer
    • Feet

    ….

    etc

    List is like 100 things long.

    Who the hell wants to buy shit like this?

    I just want to be fixed if I am ever sick. This is not a 'pick and mix' at a lolly shop.

    Get rid of the profit margin and bonuses for the health insurance executives.

    Just cover it with a flat medicare levy (or possibly have a slightly progressive medicare levy if you want the highest income earners to pay more).

    But this punishment of Medicare Levy Surcharge which means high income earners just buy a useless cheap $1000 scam policy and don't claim on it, and it forces relatively less well off people into buying PHI is a scam.

    You don't see anyone being funneled into mcdonalds. They do it because its worth it. But damn John Howard back in 1996 decided to introduce the Medicare Levy Surcharge and similar medicare related policies to guarantee customers for his health insurance executive friends.

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