Car Written off. Agreed Value Is Less than Market Value

gonan on 18/03/2022 - 18:00

Hi,

I bought a 2013 i30 tourer 45k 3.5 years ago for 16k. Drove it to 85k and crashed it last week.

Comprehensive insurance with RACV and not at fault.

When I insured it 3 years ago I insured it on an agreed value of 16k. I didn't notice that the agreed value dropped each year even if the premium didn't change…

Now my car has an agreed value of 12k and is a write off.
To buy the same car today (2013 i30 tourer 85k) it would still cost at least 16k as 2nd hand car are getting more expensive.

Do you think I can negociate a payment higher than the agreed value or am I dreaming?

Got good service history, recent repairs (new brakes and tires), and even a $1000 paint job 3 months ago, the car was definitely worth more than 12k.

Cheers

Automotive

Comments

  • Baysew on 18/03/2022 - 18:01
    +125

    Someone tell him.

    • HairyChickens on 18/03/2022 - 18:02
      +17

      We got to give him the "treatment' before though

      • capslock janitor on 21/03/2022 - 15:46

        do tell

        • Dr Techno on 21/03/2022 - 23:13
          +3

          Everyone needs to posts a compulsory MSPAINT diagram before we can proceeed.

    • Nugs on 18/03/2022 - 19:41

      You just did
      .

    • OrderInWrongWordsThe on 21/03/2022 - 22:08
      +13

      Sure thing!. I went through pretty much this exact scenario. As mentioned in a few of the posts, ignore your own insurance policy and send a letter of demand to the RACV to claim under the policy of the at fault person. Webpage here discusses it and has an example letter you can download too.
      https://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/Pages/representing/lawassis…

      Email you should send your letter/email of demand to is [email protected]

      I did this last year after my wife's car was totaled and turned out to be heavily underinsured to tune of around 30% market value. Long story short got paid out market value, in fact it was more than I asked for and it was honestly pretty painless. Was also dealing with RACV too. Even if your RACV insures you both they shouldn't just be able to peak into your insurance policy and decide to pay out less because your policy sucks. I suspect that would probably be a misuse of your private information and the whole thing would go down poorly with the ombudsman.

      Also don't forget to get a refund on the balance of your current insurance policy once you have done the above as you no longer own the car for reasons that you don't need to expand upon.

      • gonan on 22/03/2022 - 07:51
        +2

        Thanks a lot.

        This is exactly what I did yesterday reading the other comments (the letter of demand, just a bit less formal), to the same email.

        Ombudsman won't help as Market value is > 15k, so it'd be vcat.

        Would you be able to tell me how long the process took, between the accident and the the refund? Did you ask for a hire car?

        • OrderInWrongWordsThe on 22/03/2022 - 13:10
          +3

          I didn't demand a hire car because it wasn't needed at the time. I got a response within about 24 hours of emailing them and the payout landed in our bank account 17 days after that.

          Had a few phone calls, they may want someone to assess it but in my case was undrivable so I just provided a bunch of photos and that was pretty much it. RACV did a search of carsales or similar and based on similar km cars in the same state came back with their market value which as I mentioned was a few hundred higher than what I demanded.

  • holdenmg on 18/03/2022 - 18:01
    +9

    No

  • jv on 18/03/2022 - 18:03
    +20

    and crashed it last week.

    Why did you do that?

    • holdenmg on 18/03/2022 - 18:05
      +10

      Why did they crash it or why last week (or both) lol

      • jv on 18/03/2022 - 18:12
        +11

        Don't know, but reading it, it sounds like they did it deliberately, and that it wasn't an accident.

        • Fredorishi on 19/03/2022 - 07:35
          +3

          There's no such thing as "accidents". Always someone at fault.

          • jv on 19/03/2022 - 10:36
            +3

            @Fredorishi: What if lightning strikes you whilst driving?

            • Fredorishi on 19/03/2022 - 11:21
              +3

              @jv: What if? It would probably be an en-lightning experience. :p You'd probs be ok in a car anyway as it would act like a Faraday cage I would imagine.

            • randomusername2017 on 19/03/2022 - 11:26

              @jv: religious debate

            • spackbace on 19/03/2022 - 11:55
              +3

              @jv: Very very frightening

            • greatlamp on 20/03/2022 - 23:15
              +1

              @jv: Nothing will happen if you are in the car.

            • capslock janitor on 21/03/2022 - 15:47

              @jv: ACT OF GOD
              AINT NO ACCIDENT

            • resisting the urge on 21/03/2022 - 20:40

              @jv: By definition, if driving, you are moving. As that'd mean zero chance of that lightning striking in the same place, twice. And as such, cannot be considered an 'Act go God' :-)

            • surg3on on 22/03/2022 - 16:42

              @jv: Act of God. I beleive in that case its gods fault.

          • Batapotamus on 20/03/2022 - 19:47

            @Fredorishi: This brings back memories as a kid from my Dad…. There's no such thing as accidents, just carelessness.

          • tomcat83 on 20/03/2022 - 20:42
            +1

            @Fredorishi: Accident refers to intention; distinct from the apportionment of fault.

            • Fredorishi on 21/03/2022 - 08:57

              @tomcat83: Ahhhh, the old "I didn't mean it" excuse. Mostly irrelevant imho.

    • gonan on 18/03/2022 - 18:15

      No it was an accident, someone cut me off, he is totally at fault without any doubt.

      • DoctorCalculon on 18/03/2022 - 20:01
        +1

        Do you have dashcam footage to prove this?
        Has your insurance company completed their fault assessment process, or are you just saying the other party is at fault?

        • gonan on 19/03/2022 - 01:05
          +5

          Yeah dashcam and insurance confirmed me the other person was at fault

          • DangerNoodle on 20/03/2022 - 21:29
            +5

            @gonan: If they're at fault, then why go through your insurance and agreed value? Have you considered dealing with their insurance and market value to see if it's higher?

            Otherwise, I don't believe you get much choice regarding your payout. Your premium is based on your agreed value, when the agreed value drops the premium drops. You should be getting the updated value with each renewal notice.

            • gonan on 20/03/2022 - 21:33

              @DangerNoodle: We have the same insurer.

            • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2022 - 17:20
              +3

              @DangerNoodle: Insurance isn't a limitation on your recoverable costs. There's always the option to pursue independent action against the at fault driver for the value of your vehicle.

      • brendanm on 19/03/2022 - 09:35
        +13

        Then go through the other drivers insurance.

      • ssmith3104 on 20/03/2022 - 15:50

        You need to claim against the other driver. That way, you can claim the full legitimate vehicle value / replacement cost.

        Current "agreed value" policies are a joke. Typically, insurers are, at the most and upon request for the highest possible agreed value, only offering values of about 2/3 of the intrinsic value or replacement cost of that vehicle. It is a terrible rip-off. Next year, I'll probably buy liabilities only cover as a result. Because my vehicle is very low mileage and in very good condition, my policy is only covering me for about 55% of the value of my high specifications Honda Odyssey. In recent years, while the "agreed value" keeps going down, the premium keeps going up, and the replacement cost keeps going up. Absolute rip-off by Hollard Insurance. I am agreeable to even pay a higher premium to insure the correct value but neither they nor the other two insurers I sought quotes from would do this!

        • dtc on 20/03/2022 - 18:40

          My agreed value went from $40k to $42.5k this year, that was the figure on the insurance renewal offered by the insurer. I paid only $40.5k for the car 2 years ago (it was a demo and is about $47k new). Plus I had the ability to adjust the agreed value up to $44k for a higher premium of course

          That is with NRMA for what its worth. But my other car, with AAMI, also agreed value, didnt change this year (same value as last year); which is effectively an increase in value (keeping in mind that car is 8 years old).

          Oddly the NRMA premium for my expensive car is $500+ less than quotes from other insurers. But the NRMA quote for my cheaper/older car was about double that of AAMI. So getting a quote from 3 insurers and giving up because they didnt provide what you wanted is giving up way too early.

        • MrFunSocks on 21/03/2022 - 10:25

          If you don't agree to the agreed value then why did you purchase the insurance? That's the whole point of agreed value ones - you and the insurer come to an agreed value for the payout.

    • spiff on 21/03/2022 - 00:43
      +2

      Your question is more pointless than OP's question and that's saying something.

      • jv on 21/03/2022 - 00:58
        -6

        Your opinion is irrelevant.

        • spiff on 21/03/2022 - 01:05
          -5

          Your life is irrelevant.

          • jv on 21/03/2022 - 01:05
            -2

            @spiff: You just proved my point… lol…

  • PissLUR on 18/03/2022 - 18:05
    +1

    sorry too bad

  • jv on 18/03/2022 - 18:10
    +8

    I didn't notice that the agreed value dropped each year even if the premium didn't change…

    The agreed value would have been on the front page of you invoice…

    • gonan on 18/03/2022 - 18:15
      +2

      Yeah it was, no excuse..!

    • pharkurnell on 18/03/2022 - 19:15
      +1

      and it never goes up …. it only goes one way.

      • Noblejoker on 19/03/2022 - 16:17
        +4

        I am in the industry and this is usually true and it is up to the Insured to call and negotiate
        However my company has been putting UP our Agreed Values automatically for the last 2 years given the market
        TLDR - not all insurers are aholes

        • RMBC on 19/03/2022 - 21:21
          +4

          Out of curiosity, which ones aren't?

          • Worf on 20/03/2022 - 18:32
            +2

            @RMBC: The agreed value on one of our cars automatically went up last year (with AAMI) and the premium stayed around the same price.

            QBE has new for old replacement for the first three years, which i thought was pretty good.

      • photonbuddy on 20/03/2022 - 12:38
        +1

        Mine went up this year. I was a bit annoyed it didn't go up last years as well …

        I'm with NRMA.

        Having said that, this is a very special circumstance, not seen since car insurance started - I'd guess.

        • capslock janitor on 21/03/2022 - 15:48

          do we have to amend the agreed value each year up to original?

          • photonbuddy on 21/03/2022 - 15:57

            @capslock janitor: You often can't, no matter how much you're prepared to pay as a premium. I know with NRMA you can change the agreed value when renewing the policy. Not sure about others. You can usually add ~$100 or so before the premium increases.

            Most insurers will have a maximum agreed value, otherwise people will pay that $10,000 premium for an agreed value of $200,000 for their $5,000 car (extreme, but you get it!)

            If your car is particularly unique for the breed, such as extremely low K's etc. then you might have to go to a boutique insurer to get what it's worth.

      • 2190sarah on 20/03/2022 - 22:26

        I was quite pleasantly surprised this year when my agreed value automatically increased by a massive 12k this year!! (NRMA)…

  • jv on 18/03/2022 - 18:11
    -2

    Do you think I can negociate a payment higher

    What does your policy say?

    Is there a clause where you can negotiate?

    • gonan on 18/03/2022 - 18:21
      +1

      "If your vehicle is a total loss
      – Comprehensive Insurance
      If you have Comprehensive Insurance and
      we consider your vehicle to be a total loss:
      we will:
      pay you the agreed value or market
      value depending on the cover listed on
      your current Certificate of Insurance
      after deducting:
      - any unpaid premium, and
      - any applicable excesses, and
      - the unused portions of the
      registration and Compulsory Third
      Party Insurance (if applicable) that
      you are entitled to. What will be
      unused will depend on the time
      between registration and the incident
      and the refund rules in your State or
      Territory.
      if we pay a total loss:
      your Policy comes to an end and no
      refund of premium is due to you, and
      the vehicle becomes our property."

  • jakka on 18/03/2022 - 18:12
    +35

    You have said you were not at fault, so you should be able to get market value from the at fault parties insurer

    • jv on 18/03/2022 - 18:13
      +1

      good point…

      • leonardr on 22/03/2022 - 04:04
        +1

        think you forgot to bold something there mate

    • gonan on 18/03/2022 - 18:16
      +2

      Very good point.
      At fault partie insurer is the same as mine though.

      • jv on 18/03/2022 - 18:18
        +21

        Conflict of interest then?

        If they don't cough up for replacement value, ask the ombudsman….

        • gonan on 18/03/2022 - 18:22
          +2

          Yeah thanks, will ask and see.

          • gimli on 20/03/2022 - 20:19
            +3

            @gonan: jv can be an expert witness

      • JTTheMan on 21/03/2022 - 11:42

        I don't think it matters if it's the same insurer, it is a different policy.
        The person at fault is making an insurance claim not you.
        The claim should not involve your policy at all really.
        You are not paying excess are you?
        Your car should be paid at market value if it's a right -off.
        Your policy for agreed value should only be if you are making an insurance claim, i.e. at fault

    • GordonD on 18/03/2022 - 21:15
      +10

      Yes, interesting point. If the OP had been responsible, he would have been claiming on his own insurance policy, and it says agreed value, so that's all he'd get. But if the other driver is responsible he's being compensated by the other driver's insurance policy, and he's entitled to the market value of the car. The fact that both he and the other driver happen to be insured with the same company should not reduce what he gets.

    • pwnd on 20/03/2022 - 20:41

      Not a fan of American approaches, but is there a possibility of taking agreed value from own insurance (in case at fault driver does not have insurance) and then suing the other party for the remainder?

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 23/03/2022 - 07:16

        No. You relinquish your rights to your insurer when you make a claim. Not uncommon for them to then sue the at fault driver to recover the amount paid out.

  • TEER3X on 18/03/2022 - 18:17
    +3

    agreed value dropped each year even if the premium didn't change

    Insurance is a big scam

    • jv on 18/03/2022 - 18:18
      +3

      Insurance is a big scam

      That's why it's good to switch each year…

    • hmac on 18/03/2022 - 18:36
      +1

      Don't convince him not to get it, he might make a post saying he had none next time

    • BigBirdy on 19/03/2022 - 09:21

      Insurance is a big scam

      Until your driving error causes the truckload of Lamborghinis to crash into the truckload of Rolls Royces, you get billed $10M, and all the wealth you’ve accumulated over your lifetime is gone. I’m sure your homeless family will appreciate your principled stand against a product most of society regards as a sensible protection of their lifestyle …

    • lltravel on 20/03/2022 - 12:39
      +1

      it is if you're with a shitty insurance company. I have yet to be denied a claim

      Let me know how you go when you crash into a supercar.

  • pegaxs on 18/03/2022 - 18:43
    +13

    Insures for agreed value and then complains when that agreed value won’t cover the market value or the vehicle.

    I think you need a dictionary to determine what “agreed value” means.

    • jv on 18/03/2022 - 18:59
      +4

      Shouldn't even need to claim though, the other party should be paying.

      • spackbace on 18/03/2022 - 19:01
        +5

        Did someone say party?

        • jv on 18/03/2022 - 19:02
          +12

          'other' party…

          You're not invited…

          • 2025 on 18/03/2022 - 20:24
            +4

            @jv: bold of you to assume he wanted to come

      • pegaxs on 18/03/2022 - 19:20
        +4

        Well, I didn’t think of it like that. But yes, if they go direct to the other parties insurer, (even if it is the same) the not at fault party (still not invited, @spack) is expected to be made whole again. So, if OP isn’t claiming on their own insurance and dealing directly with the other parties policy, the “agreed” value stipulation on their own policy means nothing.

    • gimli on 20/03/2022 - 20:22
      +3

      To be fair OP isn't really complaining.

      they realise they screwed up.

  • wei13 on 18/03/2022 - 19:14

    Alternatively, you can choose to pursue the other private directly through VCAT. You will need to be able to prove to the tribunal the other party was at fault, as well as the market value of your car.

    • Almost Banned on 18/03/2022 - 19:24
      -1

      This is the way.
      If you claim through your insurer you will get exactly what you have contracted for - the agreed value.
      If you pursue it yourself you are entitled to claim your actual loss - being replacement value for current purposes.
      Good luck.

    • FareEvader on 20/03/2022 - 18:12

      Probably not the best idea given how long it will take for your case to be heard and the need for funds immediately to fund purchase of the new vehicle

    • fox81 on 20/03/2022 - 22:31

      apparently vcat dont hear these.
      you must go to the magistrates court

  • SBOB on 18/03/2022 - 19:22
    +2

    Do you think I can negociate a payment higher than the agreed value or am I dreaming?

    wouldnt be an agreed value if you could

    but not at fault… other persons insurance problem, not your insurance.
    Claim through theirs

  • dust on 18/03/2022 - 19:22

    Agreed value.

  • MS Paint on 18/03/2022 - 19:23
    +5

    Gonan the Marketvariant

    • gonan on 20/03/2022 - 21:39
      -1

      I laughed thanks.

  • bobbified on 18/03/2022 - 19:30

    Comprehensive insurance with RACV and not at fault.

    Who are you dealing with? Your own insurer or the other at-fault party's insurer?

    Negotiate - your own insurer will be recovering the cost of your claim from the other insurer. The other insurer doesn't know that you've insured it for a low agreed value (they will usually go by the 'market value').

    • jv on 18/03/2022 - 23:25
      +2

      They are the same insurer for both parties.

  • bargainhunter333 on 18/03/2022 - 19:43
    +1

    Yeah, you should be claiming though the other persons insurance, not your own. Your policy and the agreed value shoudnt have anything to do with it

    • mini2 on 19/03/2022 - 07:26

      Definitely this.

      You even get to keep the wreck if you like (minus its salvage value).

  • Keplaffintech on 18/03/2022 - 20:23
    +1

    That's called 'market value', and it's the option next to 'agreed value' that you didn't choose. You're out of luck.

  • Oofy Doofy on 18/03/2022 - 20:23
    -2

    You're lucky it's a 12k valuation by the insurer, because I can pick up a 2013 tourer for half that, almost any day of the week they're listed.

    Take the money and run. Find something else. Get a Toyota this time though, honestly.

    • Cyphar on 18/03/2022 - 20:46
      +1

      I can pick up a 2013 tourer for half that, almost any day of the week they're listed.

      Redbook lists values between $8K & $12K so he's getting the upper end of the market value as an agreed value, lucky him

      • Oofy Doofy on 18/03/2022 - 20:53

        Yep.

        The only place trying to list a car like that for 16k, is at a dealer.

        I don't even go by Redbook anyway, that's just a general guide. Bought second hand, privately, it'll be under 8k

      • [Deactivated] on 19/03/2022 - 00:36
        +3

        isn't redbook rather outdated, especially in these times? i thought a good rule of thumb was to look at the higher end of the redbook price, then add a couple grand.

    • randomusername2017 on 18/03/2022 - 22:00

      I can pick up a 2013 tourer for half that

      Under 100000km in the current market?

      Where?

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