Contesting a Council Parking fine in Court

datzed on 17/03/2022 - 14:22

Summary to this is, I was issued a fine in a private car park of an apartment block by the local council.

There are no 'council irrected' warnings posted anywhere within the parking complex. There are however, non-council irrected signs indicating this is a private car park.

I contested this parking fine in writing to the council, and was written back stating the apartment complex has a private parking agreement with the council. They said the parking inspector was responding to a complaint from an 'authorised person' at the property (i.e. I think it was a member of the owners group of the apartment)

I'm interested in contesting this on two grounds:

  • A council issuing a fine based simply on direction from an 'authorised person' seams wrong to me (i.e. I don't beleive the council has applied any legislitave to issue the fine here, but was simply responding to a complaint).

  • I beleive its a conflict of interest for a council (i.e. a publically funded authority) to be policing a 'private agreement' or at a 'private' car park.

Thoughts?

Please note, the car was parked illegally, but the legality is whats in question here. As its a private car park, I dont believe the council has legal grounds to issue a fine.

Thanks

Automotive

Comments

  • pndl on 17/03/2022 - 14:26
    +34

    If you don't believe it was issued legally, you can elect to go to court to contest the fine. Will be interested in how it goes.

    • apsilon on 17/03/2022 - 14:34
      +21

      Will be interested in how it goes.

      Yes, please come back and give an update when done. So few people do.

    • HeWhoKnows on 18/03/2022 - 08:27
      -4

      OP has clearly done the WRONG thing

      Parking in someones parking space

      How would OP feel if someone parked in their own parking space?

      I detest OPs who do the WRONG THING then come here asking how to get out of it

      So immature!

      Just pay the fine mate

      GUILTY AS CHARGED!

      And hold your head down in shame for even posting this matter here for all to see what an irresponsible person you really are

      PS if you take it to court the judge will no doubt feel the same way and penalize you with the maximum fine

      So go right ahead…Make my day LOL LOL LOL

      • Scantu on 18/03/2022 - 18:52
        +4

        You should be a prosecutor.

        "BRUH he GUILTY, just LOOK at him! Sentence him to the JAIL! What? You want me to prove it was against the law ?? WHY"

      • Lou Sarsol on 19/03/2022 - 10:26
        +1

        You feeling ok?

      • gimli on 19/03/2022 - 13:54
        +9

        Initially I thought you were being a bit excessive but when I think about it I see where you are coming from.

        OP has potentially(quite likely) inconvenienced the residents of the property he parked in illegally. They are happy to screw over other people and still have the guts to post about it without any remorse and ask for help. When you look at it from that perspective it is pretty disgusting. Its this kind of attitude of doing whatever you can get away with which makes things shit for everyone.

  • Downvoter on 17/03/2022 - 14:26
    +43

    Irrected. Lol.

  • lunchbox99 on 17/03/2022 - 14:28
    +5

    irrected?

    • MS Paint on 17/03/2022 - 14:44
      +21

      Yes. When your bonut is up. It's irrected.

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 17/03/2022 - 14:47
        +1

        I beleive you are correct.

      • BewareOfThe Dog on 17/03/2022 - 15:05
        +2

        Maybe it was a Vote?
        We will have a Federal Irrection coming up?

      • freefall101 on 17/03/2022 - 15:07
        +10

        Bonut is the American spelling, In Australia it's written as "boughnut".

        • cashless on 17/03/2022 - 15:56
          +1

          I think you're getting hoods and irrections mixed up

        • BartholemewH on 18/03/2022 - 12:59

          When the hood is irrect, you need to pay it special attention.

        • iCandy on 18/03/2022 - 13:48

          With a silent b

  • Porker on 17/03/2022 - 14:29
    +44

    Councils, at least in Victoria, have legal authority to enforce private car parks IF a Section 90D agreement exists between the two parties.

    If that agreement exists and the infringement has been issued by an authorised Council officer, then it is valid.

    Where you can contest things is that in some cases the agreement includes conditions that Council is responsible for parking signs, in which case those signs must accord with relevant standards.

    There is no conflict as Council receives the parking infringement payment.

    The infringement, again in Victoria, should state the road rule that you broke too which will give you leads on how to contest the fine.

    Edit: Are you sure it was a Council issued fine? Yiur info is unclear as if it wasn't them, but you contacted them, then the response that an authorised person makes sense as owners corporation has that authority

    Owners Corporation have powers to issue fines to vehicles parked on their private property.

    Not all fines are issued by Council

    • datzed on 17/03/2022 - 14:45
      +7

      Fantastic Intel here Porker. Exactly why I posted this scenario here. I'll chase up if Section 90D was adhered to.

      • Porker on 17/03/2022 - 14:50
        +12

        I failed to mention, the signs aspect I mentioned above and the need to comply only applies if that private car park is available for public use. As example, if Council was enforcing a Woolworths car park.

        A private car park for private use but with Council enforcement does not need to have compliant signs.

        • datzed on 17/03/2022 - 14:51
          +4

          "A private car park for private use but with Council enforcement does not need to have compliant signs."

          This sounds like what has happened here.

          I feel this whole scenario is lacking some transparency, but I think the best option here is to pay the fine.

          • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2022 - 15:53
            +16

            @datzed: The private owners can ask council to patrol their areas for 'trespassers' in the complex. They could have a disabled parking spot where council or police can issue a fine too. You did something wrong and admitted to the infraction, pay the fine.

              • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2022 - 16:10
                +45

                @datzed: yes, it's all a big conspiracy that starts with some a55hole parking on someone else's property without being invited, next thing you know it's embezzling funds from orphans.

                You missed the bit where private land owners can request council patrol and enforce parking restrictions. You are lucky no one towed your car or vandalised it (maybe thinking it was dumped). Would you be thinking the same if it was a westfields/stocklands parking lot instead of a unit block? You appear to be very selfish but wanting compassion now you've been 'done wrong', even though its right. Looks like you've been found out lost your free parking at the station, time to pay the daily fee. Free rides don't last forever.

              • dji1111111 on 18/03/2022 - 10:25
                +23

                @datzed: It's a bit rich for someone who knowingly parked illegally with complete disregard for inconvenience it creates for someone else to talk about malpractice lol

                If you are such a stickler for adhering to rules and technicalities, why did you ignore the parking signs and park there illegally?

                Double standard…

              • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2022 - 20:37
                +8

                @datzed: The courts are not your personal soapbox to rail against authority for imaginary causes, or simply because you don't like authority.

                Neck up and pay the fine for doing the crime. Not clog the courts for people with actual injustice to fight.

                The fact your even questioning this is the most entitled thing I've seen in the last 3 years, and that includes the episode with the morons dancing on the westgate.

              • gimli on 19/03/2022 - 13:58
                +4

                @datzed:

                Not doing this is how corruption and malpractice starts.

                If you are not being sarcastic this is unbelievable.

                You do realise YOU were the one being corrupt/malpractice by parking illegally in someone else private property.
                Do you even think why the owner/resident may have complained to the council and look at things from there shoes for a second.
                You're (profanity) selfish.

          • Lunarboogie on 17/03/2022 - 23:47
            +2

            @datzed: Why the lack of transparency? Because the council didn’t personally write to you and every other citizen of Australia warning you of infringements?

    • djkelly69 on 17/03/2022 - 16:55
      +2

      Owners Corporation have powers to issue fines to vehicles parked on their private property.

      I thought an Owners Corp could only issue (largely unenforceable) breach of contract notices seeking damages, unless they have council doing their dirty work.

      • Porker on 17/03/2022 - 17:22
        +2

        You're correct, they can't issue a 'fine' like Council, but just wanted to be sure that what OP had wasn't a breach of contract notice (that can look like a fine), similar to what private car parks might do/issue. As in, if it was a breach notice, then pursing Council will do nothing.

    • HeWhoKnows on 18/03/2022 - 08:29

      Council rangers do NOT issue fines in areas which they have no jurisdiction

      And OP is no doubt GUILTY of the offense

      End of story

      • Porker on 18/03/2022 - 08:52

        Read my earlier replies that Council officers can issue fines within private car parks where a Section 90D agreement exists.

        • MrFunSocks on 19/03/2022 - 14:52
          +2

          That’s what the poster you replied to is saying though. They won’t issue fines where they don’t have jurisdiction. In this car park, where they issued the fine, they do - which is why they issued a fine.

    • ZilogX on 19/03/2022 - 20:37

      Ha! that's a legal minefield.

      How you can possibly divest authority to a council to fine someone for trespass on private property is completely beyond me. The council has very, very limited jurisdiction over your particular lot in terms of policing, trespass and say delinquent parking for instance…

      It is definitely a state government issue.

      That having been said, what will probs happen here is the "fine" will be substantiated through the OSR one way or the other via the standard precedential red-taping procedure. By which, the fee will then escalate to the OSR's next level of importance (and penalty unit)

  • tsunamisurfer on 17/03/2022 - 14:31
    +53

    Summary.

    OP admits car was parked illegally.

    Doesn't believe he is under any jurisdiction so should be punished at all.

    OP believes he knows the legislation but cannot spell to save his life.

    • Hardlyworkin on 17/03/2022 - 19:18
      +6

      Pretty sure I've met OP many times!

    • HeWhoKnows on 18/03/2022 - 08:31

      Cant park to save his life either

      GUILTY!

      PAY THE FINE AND MOVE ON

  • Jason Genova on 17/03/2022 - 14:33
    +11

    Please note, the car was parked illegally

    sounds like someone in that apartment block had enough of your shenanigans and dobbed you in

    you admitted fault, so what will a date with a judge achieve?

    • stirlo on 17/03/2022 - 14:41
      +1

      Admitting that you trespassed on private property and were not authorised to park there would not automatically entitle you to a government issued fine. I think the OP has a reasonable case provided a Section 90 agreement does not exist

      • deme on 18/03/2022 - 11:19
        +3

        Admitting that you trespassed

        Isn't trespassing criminal.

        • Sxio on 19/03/2022 - 15:40

          Yeah but the fine would have to be for trespassing in that case, not for parking. Details ppl. Details.

          PS. Not a lawyer.

          • deme on 22/03/2022 - 11:16
            +1

            @Sxio:

            PS. Not a lawyer.

            It shows

            • Sxio on 22/03/2022 - 17:23

              @deme: Hahaha. You're the one struggling with the difference between parking and trespass, but good luck with it all.

              • deme on 22/03/2022 - 21:33

                @Sxio: Assuming OP was trespassing, a parking fine would be better than a visit from the cops. I think you fail to realise you can be both parked illegally and trespassing

    • datzed on 17/03/2022 - 14:52

      My interest was the legality of issuing the fine. As mentioned, a council issuing fines to police a private car park doesnt bode well with me. But based on a couple of helpful replies here, it sounds like it all checks out.

      • iCandy on 18/03/2022 - 13:54
        +7

        You’re saying it’s the legality you are questioning, after admitting you illegally parked your car? The hypocrisy is strong with you.

        • GrueHunter on 19/03/2022 - 13:28
          +6

          “Like I know what I done was like wrong and stuff? But I reckon they should have to irrect the lesiglashin. I’m completely fine with being a selfish entitled flog otherwise.”

  • RichardD on 17/03/2022 - 14:35
    +4

    Private individuals, police and local council have limited powers to action illegally parked vehicles on private property. I suspect they enforced this on you. I think you got out cheaply as the Local Police could have issued you a fine and impounded the car as it is trespassing on the common property.

  • AndyC1 on 17/03/2022 - 14:42

    Hire a lawyer and ask them what the process is.

    • datzed on 17/03/2022 - 14:48

      Thanks mate, but the cost of this is north worth while

  • stirlo on 17/03/2022 - 14:43
    +7

    See a City of Melbourne example here. An owners corporation can apply to have a the council enforce parking restrictions but it costs them $630 per year so it's more like hiring the council to perform a service for you rather than any "conflict of interest"

    • datzed on 17/03/2022 - 14:48
      +2

      Thanks stirlo! Good intel here mate. Sounds like the letter I've received from council stating a "private parking agreement with the council" maybe legit.

    • ZilogX on 19/03/2022 - 20:49

      Looks like we have the answer!

      You get 5 upvotes and people replying with "Irrected" for the 6th time get 40 upvotes GO FIGURE………..

  • 7ekn00 on 17/03/2022 - 14:55
    +21

    Haha, you thought you had found a loophole for your laziness, you get one fine for the 100 times you have done it, now you think you know better?
    Good luck, lets hope at least one self entitled person learns something today :P

    • Colombian on 17/03/2022 - 15:33

      to be fair, self entitled people would not accept the fine and would not accept any of the replies here. At least give credit to datzed for being upfront and recognizing his fault when he found out he was in the wrong.

        • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2022 - 18:09
          +3

          especially this forum

        • lolz112 on 18/03/2022 - 07:48
          +19

          Wait, you knew what you were doing was wrong, however you thought could get away from a legal technicality. How about you take a look at yourself instead of calling people smart asses for correctly calling you out

  • Baysew on 17/03/2022 - 15:27

    How much was the fine?

    • datzed on 17/03/2022 - 15:43

      $182

      • apu on 17/03/2022 - 16:00
        +2

        You risk a costs order against you if you are unsuccessful in Court. Something to bear in mind.

        • holdenmg on 17/03/2022 - 16:27
          +3

          …and the hanging Judge every Thursday (unless Golf).

        • datzed on 17/03/2022 - 16:42
          +2

          I think court costs are around $70, so almost worth the risk. But there have been a few replies in here which indicate the fine was issued to me on legit legal grounds. So I doubt I'll be contesting it.

      • spackbace on 17/03/2022 - 16:29
        +3

        That's worth a day off work, plus the time/effort leading up, all while knowing you're in the wrong?

        • datzed on 17/03/2022 - 16:43

          Reason I made this thread was to discuss if I was in-fact legally wrong. It sounds like I was, so I'll probably not contest this fine.

          • hasher22 on 18/03/2022 - 00:30

            @datzed: This forum can't tell you if you're "legally" wrong or right.

            If you want to take the legal route on your own, message strata and/or the local council and ask for the agreement. I assume, if there is one, it should available to the public.

            Then once you get that, make your decision to continue.

            If they come back and state they don't have it, or they can't give it to you for X reason, I would assume they can't legally fine you.

    • datzed on 17/03/2022 - 16:41
      -5

      lol. Yup!

    • pegaxs on 17/03/2022 - 22:58
      +24

      Or, you know, someone who is allowed to park there finding that their parking spot is always taken up by cars that are not authorised to be there. Doesn’t take a Karen to be pissed off with arseholes parking their cars on property they have no right to be on.

      I am sure if I came over and parked in your driveway for the day while I went to work because it was cheaper than paying for parking, you would eventually ring the council as well, “Karen”.

        • Euphemistic on 18/03/2022 - 08:14
          +4

          We have no history on this particular site. Could be Karen’s, might just be a hot spot.

          The fact the council have been contracted to enforce parking is a sign that maybe it happens a lot. Maybe OP got caught on a routine patrol because it’s ‘easy pickings’ for the rangers. As much as they don’t have quotas, pretty sure if I was a parking inspector I’d regularly visit areas that had a lot of non compliance.

        • 7ekn00 on 18/03/2022 - 12:00
          +3

          Yeah, because this OP would totally pay attention to a polite note …
          They have hardly paid any attention to multiple posts here, you actually think a note would make them think twice?!?

          • iCandy on 18/03/2022 - 13:57
            +3

            @7ekn00: Or the signs posted in the car park.

        • gimli on 19/03/2022 - 14:04

          I don't get your perspective

          How is OP who parked in someone else's private spot etc not the one being a d**k.

  • Davo1111 on 17/03/2022 - 17:04
    +8

    Haha so entitled.

    Pay the fine. You have no basis to defend it.

  • JimmyF on 17/03/2022 - 17:20
    +3

    OP do you even live in this buildings carpark?

    Please note, the car was parked illegally, but the legality is whats in question here. As its a private car park, I dont believe the council has legal grounds to issue a fine.

    No grounds, but you said

    I contested this parking fine in writing to the council, and was written back stating the apartment complex has a private parking agreement with the council.

    They have a agreement.

    • EightImmortals on 17/03/2022 - 18:55
      -2

      Was the public notified of that agreement? Were there signs posted?

      • JimmyF on 17/03/2022 - 19:02
        +8

        Its a PRIVATE carpark, as long as the apartment owners are aware who cares…. :)

        But I'm sure there are signs around, sounds like the OP doesn't even live there, but just parking illegal because they can.

        • EightImmortals on 18/03/2022 - 08:22
          -4

          Yes after a re-read he did say there was a sign there but didn't elaborate as to what was on it, something along those lines I guess. Still no need for people to go crying to Big Bother, they could have just left a warning note on the windshield asking them not to park there any more and THEN caaled the filth if the OP ignored the request.

          • JimmyF on 18/03/2022 - 09:19
            +4

            @EightImmortals:

            Still no need for people to go crying to Big Bother, they could have just left a warning note on the windshield asking them not to park there any more and THEN caaled the filth if the OP ignored the request.

            I'm guessing there is a long running issue of people like the OP parking illegally in the complex. Just like the OP admitted they did.

            You know if the OP didn't park illegally in the first place, then there would be no reason for a fine ;)

            • EightImmortals on 18/03/2022 - 09:40

              @JimmyF: Even thought he did, I still see no reason for a fine…unless he kept doing it.
              What's wrong with people these days?

              • JimmyF on 18/03/2022 - 10:19
                +10

                @EightImmortals:

                What's wrong with people these days?

                Agreed, 100% this…. What is wrong with people that they feel so entitled that they illegal park in someone elses apartment complex blocking access to someone else's car space and then have the nerve to complain they got fined for doing the wrong thing!

          • iCandy on 18/03/2022 - 13:58

            @EightImmortals: You….sound like someone who does something similar a lot.

            • EightImmortals on 18/03/2022 - 14:21
              -1

              @iCandy: Nope.
              Just don't see the need for people to act like ***eholes whenever someone does something they don't like.

              • resubaehtgnolhcs on 18/03/2022 - 21:22
                +3

                @EightImmortals: Ummm, but hasn't OP acted like an "***ehole" (as you call it) by parking there in the first place…?

                • EightImmortals on 19/03/2022 - 07:26
                  -2

                  @resubaehtgnolhcs: That remains to be proven, so far it is only assumed.

                  • iCandy on 19/03/2022 - 09:57
                    +1

                    @EightImmortals: Nope. He admitted he parked illegally, ergo an a**hole.

                    • EightImmortals on 19/03/2022 - 10:34
                      +1

                      @iCandy: Mere disobedience does not make one an ***sehole. Blocking a driveway, taking up a handicapped spot, leaving your car there if asked not to are all fair game.

          • Sxio on 19/03/2022 - 15:44
            +1

            @EightImmortals: Or he could face the legitimate consequences instead of writing notes and passively hoping OP starts doing the right thing. Which clearly he's not in the habit of.

            What's occurred IS the correct process, whether you like it or not. I notice many people in these situations would rather 'have a chat' with the aggrieved party than the authorities because it's easier to get their way.

            Car park is private for a reason. Fines exist for a reason. OP noted in their initial note that what they were doing is illegal. There's nothing bad happening here. This is the process being applied correctly.

  • Euphemistic on 17/03/2022 - 21:35
    +3

    Councils don’t go around issuing fines without having some legal standing to support it. There’s so much red tape involved that they don’t bother to risk it.

    Private companies however seem to love pretending they can fine you for parking, perhaps this is where OP for the idea that anyone can park anywhere they like on private property.

    Contesting fines should be for when you’ve overstated by 7 mins because the dr appointment went long or conflicting signage

    • hasher22 on 18/03/2022 - 00:28
      +1

      The residents should have something in writing regarding their agreement with the local council on what can be legally fined for.

      Remember, most people just pay fines and don't want to go through the headache of contesting it if they see something is off.

  • Agret on 17/03/2022 - 21:55

    My friend received a similar low value council fine of around $160 a few years ago as he parked in the shopping plaza car park (we did a lot of on-site calls at this job) rather than out back and then ended up staying in-store until closing so he went over the 2hr parking limit. He wrote back to them requesting to escalate it to the court and they just dropped the fine. Wasn't worth their time. You might have similar luck?

  • hasher22 on 18/03/2022 - 00:26
    +1

    Message strata and tell them to give you the section that state the council can fine in private spaces or unit spaces.

    I lived in a few units and we always get emails, pin-ups in the building that people can't park in X places and can get fined up to X dollars, but no one gets fined…..

    Be interesting to see if your strata actually do have an agreement with the council to fine.

    • iCandy on 18/03/2022 - 14:00

      OP probably doesn’t live in the complex he parked at.

  • Nutrino on 18/03/2022 - 01:02
    +3

    I would use the sovereign citizen argument, which is very close to the wookie defence. If it dont fit… you must acquit.

    • DarwinBoy on 18/03/2022 - 01:07

      Has that ever worked? I'm curious as I see it metioned so much with vague statements but no legit cases mentioned.

      • Nutrino on 18/03/2022 - 01:11

        No idea, but its sure is fun watching these people get their car windows smashed in by the cops.

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