Contesting a Council Parking fine in Court

datzed on 17/03/2022 - 14:22

Summary to this is, I was issued a fine in a private car park of an apartment block by the local council.

There are no 'council irrected' warnings posted anywhere within the parking complex. There are however, non-council irrected signs indicating this is a private car park.

I contested this parking fine in writing to the council, and was written back stating the apartment complex has a private parking agreement with the council. They said the parking inspector was responding to a complaint from an 'authorised person' at the property (i.e. I think it was a member of the owners group of the apartment)

I'm interested in contesting this on two grounds:

  • A council issuing a fine based simply on direction from an 'authorised person' seams wrong to me (i.e. I don't beleive the council has applied any legislitave to issue the fine here, but was simply responding to a complaint).

  • I beleive its a conflict of interest for a council (i.e. a publically funded authority) to be policing a 'private agreement' or at a 'private' car park.

Thoughts?

Please note, the car was parked illegally, but the legality is whats in question here. As its a private car park, I dont believe the council has legal grounds to issue a fine.

Thanks

Automotive

Comments

        • pegaxs on 18/03/2022 - 08:04
          +2

          “I Do NoT cOnSeNt1!!1! i Do NoT cOnSeNt!!1!!” Closely followed up by “Taser taser taser!!!”.

          My favourite part is when the police go through their car and find a altoids tin with “residue” in it and then say that the person is going to jail on a charge of “conspiracy to distribute a trafficable narcotic” or some bullshit.

  • DarwinBoy on 18/03/2022 - 01:04

    Signage would still be have to be up to standard and align with the Australian road rules.
    Is it legit signage as seen on public roads maintained by Council or just some random writing painted on a wall.

    • Porker on 18/03/2022 - 08:56
      +2

      Only of it's a car park used by the public. Private car parks for private use dont need to do this even if enforced by Council - they should comply though as then they can have a road rule to fall back on for infringements.

      • DarwinBoy on 18/03/2022 - 12:15

        It would depend on what offence they are trying to enforce.
        Signage is useful as it presents a current physical representation on what is required.
        A magistrate might overturn a fine if it's not satisfactory or vague.

        • Porker on 18/03/2022 - 17:01

          Yes agree, as i mentioned in other replies, signs help to inform what road rule is being breached. But this is a private car park which OP has already indicated signs state, and/or has been vague about other signs.

          A few road rule non-compliances come to mind beyond the typical overstay fine (which signs tend to cover).

  • Dreamcast on 18/03/2022 - 06:15
    +3

    The Karen in me is smiling.

    • geoffs87 on 18/03/2022 - 07:06
      +11

      Me too, as a previous owner in an Sydney Fringe apartment block - people used to illegally park in our visitor spots all the time. Those spots are for the benefit of owner's guests - no sympathy for OP.

      Oh, and the

      i.e. I think it was a member of the owners group of the apartment

      Sounds like a smug, snide comment that these people should be disrespected? In most of my experience - these people tend to make a building run smoothly. Good Job to the owners corp member in my opinion.

      • Dreamcast on 18/03/2022 - 10:26
        +4

        Not just that. But the morons that park parallel to a wall that is in front of my garage, making it difficult for me to get in and out. Then when you complain or confront them, they make it out as if you're in the wrong.

        FML, what is wrong with people.

        To add, yes, people who are helpful and look out for the shared property and look out for neighbours, are made to look like the bad guy.

  • doctordv8 on 18/03/2022 - 07:37
    +6

    Forget the issues you have with the Authority…. consider yourself lucky you were not towed. Illegal/unauthorized/poor parking at my complex is rife with morons ignoring Signage….tow them all.

    Why can't everyone just do the right thing?

    • downbythecreek on 18/03/2022 - 08:29
      +4

      Yes, a fine seems like a fairly light penalty for carpark squatting considering the impact it has on the people who actually pay for that space.

      In an apartment block I have lived in previously, the managers would have cars towed daily as people would use it as convenient, free parking for commuting. Was always a delight seeing them losing their minds in the carpark when they got back.

  • munecito on 18/03/2022 - 08:04
    +2

    My eyes are bleeding.

  • b0rnwithabeard on 18/03/2022 - 08:14
    +2

    Do you think they were a little hasty with the sign irection?

    A premature irection?

    • pegaxs on 19/03/2022 - 08:11
      +2

      Maybe the sign had fallen over being poorly install. Possible irrectile dysfunction?

  • Pandabargain on 18/03/2022 - 09:13
    +1

    Is that you red Mazda 6

  • smartazz104 on 18/03/2022 - 09:18
    +2

    Please note, the car was parked illegally, but the legality is whats in question here. As its a private car park, I dont believe the council has legal grounds to issue a fine.

    Common sense is uncommon and "doing the right thing" is too hard.

  • tikei on 18/03/2022 - 09:46
    +1

    For someone to call the council about it, op must have been doing this for a while and ignored warning letters. I should look up this agreement with the council as well and have it implemented where I live.

  • Lord Fart Bucket on 18/03/2022 - 09:49
    +1

    Unless there's any demerits attached to the infringement, i wouldn't give the fine a second thought and just pay. You admitted you were wrong.

  • chrisd262 on 18/03/2022 - 10:14
    -1

    My thoughts are - private property is not within Council's area of responsibility.

    If a private infringement is is issued - the issue is that the group issuing the infringement does not have access to
    your personal details - eg address etc so fine can not be followed up and it is an offence for Police to provide this personal info

    • lint on 18/03/2022 - 10:27
      +3

      Private property can have agreements with council to have parking rangers patrol and issue fines payable to Revenue NSW to deter people from parking there illegally like the OP has. This has been a thing for a while now. The private property owner or owner's corporation doesn't get the infringer's details, it's exactly the same as getting a fine for illegally parking on the street.

      If OP has an issue with it then they should consider not parking illegally on private property.

  • Poor Ass on 18/03/2022 - 10:20

    People from privately owned premises invites law enforcement to issue fines all the time

    e.g. illegal parking, parking in disable spots, installing speed cameras in privately owned roads and tunnels where they split the profits from infringements

    You can't win in this situation

  • Lurkermclurkerson on 18/03/2022 - 10:30
    +3

    I worked with a large council and can confirm that this sounds legitimate. Many private operators enter into agreements with council to enforce parking regulations. There is a need for this type of agreement which I won’t go into here.

    As frustrating as it sounds, I would be careful taking it to court on the grounds of the agreement being invalid or not legal. You might need a lawyer to review and I’m betting that they would tell you to pay.

    I suspect that the infringement notice would still need be issued in respect to the road rules of your state/territory. You would have to have broken a road rule. This means that there would likely need to be signage that conforms to Australian standards.

    I don’t know all the details but I would recommend you save yourself the headache and pay the fine.

    I’m over a decade out of this work space so please take it with a grain of salt.

    • popsiee on 18/03/2022 - 10:31

      Total agree with you but OP obviously doesn't know how to read the facts in this thread .
      Besides that his time probably not worth anything .
      Please don't get in any field with risk assessment OP .

      • lint on 18/03/2022 - 10:36

        I'd love to see this taken to court with OP representing themselves and arguing council has no jurisdiction to issue fines in a private car park.

        • Poor Ass on 18/03/2022 - 11:07

          and live stream it on a hidden cam

      • Lurkermclurkerson on 18/03/2022 - 10:38

        I understand the thought process that OP might go through when being issued an infringement. It sucks to be fined and triggers an emotional response. The best trick is not to let your emotions direct your actions. 99% of the time, the best course of action is to pay and move on.

  • Tleyx on 18/03/2022 - 10:47
    +2

    If it was your property how would you react with other people's stuff just left there . If someone parked in your driveway so you could not park, you would be cool?

  • trapper on 18/03/2022 - 11:15

    You can not get off these fines even if you actually were allowed to park there and have proof!

    All that matters is that the 'authorised' person called up and reported your car, and so at that moment you were not permitted.

    The only way out is to get the fine withdrawn by the authorised person, the council charges an admin fee for this too - ~$50 I believe.

  • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2022 - 11:18
    +1

    I have no idea how you've arrived at the spelling of irrected. Erected. Seems.

    Fight the fine. It'll be fun to watch. Then after you lose remember not to park in other people's car parks

  • MontyMacaw on 18/03/2022 - 11:59
    +1

    I’m all for contesting fines as a hobby but the real answer here is if you park where you know you shouldn’t there may be consequences. Caveat emptor.

      • MontyMacaw on 18/03/2022 - 12:57
        +3

        My pleasure !!! Feel free to call on me anytime. Sometimes the simple solutions are the best ones.

  • Vote for Pedro on 18/03/2022 - 12:10

    Sorry if already posted

    https://www.lookupstrata.com.au/nsw-case-study-is-your-illeg…

    Basically in nsw council and strata can have an agreement as the strata and council acts allow it

  • burningrage on 18/03/2022 - 12:57

    Private landholders may engage councils to act on their behalf in policing the parking restrictions.

    I know for example Chadstone engages City of Stonnington (VIC) to patrol their car parks and issuing fines on their behalf.

    Understand that private landholders don't get a share in the parking fines which is why Westfields would rather spend money in boom gates, plate number recognition, and cameras because at least they get the return from parking fees.

    So to answer your question, strata can do the same thing and they won't get a cent but they certainly have the moral satisfaction of knowing you are being fined.

    I don't agree with this sort of thing to be honest but that's the fact.

  • Ramrunner on 18/03/2022 - 13:24
    +6

    What a stupid post? My wife's work office has a private car park. It's always relatively full with people that work there. When she gets to work, if she can't park in her space or even another because some dumb arse decided he/she has the right to, and she has to then park on the street and pay for a whole day's parking, how the hell is that fair when she pays strata fees which include her parking spot?

    Swallow the fine mate - you parked where you shouldn't and you're being a dick about it. Private car park means NOT for you.

  • D3HUN on 18/03/2022 - 14:35
    +10

    I soooo fking hate these guys like OP. Parking across footpath, private spots, disabled spots and blocking other cars….

    Like "I am just going to leave my car there because it suits me and I don't care if I am supposed to or create any inconvenience for someone else. Most likely they won't even see me to raise their concerns, an they can't move the car so all good. ".

    And then goes to argue when gets slapped with a fine.

    If I were you I would take a good deep look into myself and figure if you are really entitled to do what you are doing.

  • Pufff on 18/03/2022 - 15:01
    +12

    They should have got your car towed and impounded instead.

  • cooni on 18/03/2022 - 15:37
    +4

    So many people are having a go at OP but I for one would love to know from the perspective of what can I get my owners corp to do to get fines issued to people where I live.

    Is it just no standing/stopping or time restrictions that are enforceable if an agreement exists with council?

    How about people parked in other residents' spots? Unauthorised use of visitor parking? Are these enforceable by council?

    • lint on 18/03/2022 - 18:45

      You could, for example have signs on every car space with the number plates of vehicles allowed to park in that space if you want to allow council to patrol. Otherwise you would call council to send a parking ranger if you identify a vehicle parked somewhere they shouldn't, be it other residents' spots, unauthorised use of visitor parking, etc.

      • cooni on 18/03/2022 - 22:00

        Pretty sure there's street-enforceable number plate based signage you can use?

  • OzHunterNSW on 18/03/2022 - 15:56

    Firstly, on your ticket you will find a phone number Revenues… ring that and ask to have the matter revised.
    Failing that, the council can not issue fines on private property unless a deal has been struck.

    Sounds suss to me

    • Euphemistic on 18/03/2022 - 16:43
      +5

      You haven’t read much of this thread have you?

  • Drewbo on 18/03/2022 - 16:48
    +7

    I live near a railway line and the visitor parking in my complex is regularly occupied by commuters. Catching them in the act and daring to speak up is generally met with a tirade of abuse. Enjoy your fine, O.P.

  • Herbse on 18/03/2022 - 16:49
    -1

    You have a better chance fighting off a murder charge than a council fine. Good luck.

  • SailorGoon on 18/03/2022 - 18:55

    Do they have proof beyond a complaint? E.g., photo of the car parked illegally?

    • Euphemistic on 22/03/2022 - 15:16

      They may not need ‘proof’. Parking laws were written long before cameras were cheap enough to photograph every single little infraction. Their proof is likely whatever the parking officer saw.

  • ribze1 on 18/03/2022 - 19:19
    +2

    I don't think the council would fine you if they couldn't. Also it would be off the back of a complaint.

    That said, you did the wrong thing by your own admission, cop it on the chin.

  • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2022 - 20:43

    If you dare to waste the courts time on this, potentially pushing back someone with a legitimate reason to try and address a legitimate injustice, well.

    I have a special set of skills.

    I will find you.

  • funnysht on 18/03/2022 - 22:04
    +2

    So you're here after just prob parking illegally maybe blocking some access or parking in someone else spot and want to contest it..lol

    thankfully finally the council/etc did the right thing

  • tik tok on 18/03/2022 - 22:06
    +1

    Hod'on.. lemme wear me legislitave hat and read this irrected post

  • funnysht on 18/03/2022 - 22:07
    +2

    OP should just pay the fine like other illegal parkers do …

  • DealLover1 on 19/03/2022 - 11:57
    -4

    always contest these!!, I would also push for compensation for wasting your time having to defend against a bullshit fine that's not enforceable!

    • Sxio on 19/03/2022 - 15:48
      +2

      I wonder how you'd feel if you came to work and someone had parked in your car park. Or you were coming home from a long day and…. someone's parked in your car park. So you have to park a 15min walk away or pay for parking.

      • DealLover1 on 19/03/2022 - 17:03

        Thats not the point though, the issue is a council ranger trying to issue a fine on private land.

        I don't disagree that parking on anyone's property without permission is unacceptable :)

        • Sxio on 19/03/2022 - 18:58
          +2

          I think you should read the rest of the thread. It's ok. At least in Melbourne anyway.

          You're also arguing the the person parking on someone else's property is unacceptable, but should also be contested. I disagree. They did the wrong thing. Trying to squirm out of the consequences on a technicality is pathetic.

  • javawoo on 19/03/2022 - 22:31
    +1

    pay the fine

  • GerrardsSlip on 20/03/2022 - 00:14

    Take it to the court and irrect your concerns

  • [Deactivated] on 20/03/2022 - 08:26

    It's a $100 fine that you are going to spend 3 hours contesting at least or a day off in court
    Irrespective of whether you are right or wrong its probably not worth contesting

  • [Deactivated] on 20/03/2022 - 10:18

    I took the council to court over a parking fine and I won. was for parking more than the allowed time. My defence, I parked there because I couldn't get in the driveway as it was blocked for 6 hours.

    • deme on 22/03/2022 - 21:40
      +1

      Maybe OP was parked in your driveway?

  • Eeples on 26/03/2022 - 20:23

    So, was where you parked numbered (which would imply a resident's parking spot) or a spot that was labelled 'visitors' or what?

  • boostpak on 17/06/2022 - 12:56
    +1

    so what happened??????

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