How Can You Tell if The Estate Agent Is Bluffing or Not?

I have put down an offer on a land in Melbourne's eastern suburb.

It is a reasonable offer in the middle of the advertised asking price. Initially he said there were other enquiries as well and he will check if anyone else wants to offer. Today I got an update that they have received another offer as well and the vendor will choose between both. I can afford to offer a bit more but I am not sure if they have received a real offer or is it just a bluff to make me offer higher.

So my question is, has anyone else been in a similar situation? and what will you do?

Edit:
Thank you all for your replies. We ended up pulling our offer due to some big costs coming to light.

Edit:
For whoever is interested, its been a week after pulling our offer for that land and it still hasn't been updated to under offer. So that second offer was definitely a bluff. Feel like I dodged a bullet there.

Comments

  • +38

    Standard REA response whether they do have offer or not. Either up your own offer if you really want it or stick to your guns and see how it plays out.

    • +13

      Agreed on standard response.

      What buyers need to understand though is that there **may*** well be a superior offer. Buyers need to be comfortable that if that such an offer does exist they may end up missing out without necessarily having put their "best offer" on the table.

      • +6

        We got caught in what we thought was a bluff, it was a bit odd from our perspective as the agent could've got a better deal for the vendor.

        We made our offer, after a few days agent advised there was another offer and they'd review both. Felt like they were pressuring us with a bluff to offer more, we held our ground.

        A few days pass and we got a call from the agent that we were unsuccessful. Turns out both offers were identical, same $ amount, no subject to sale, only subject to finance. The agent basically got the vendor to pick a contract at random, really odd that they didn't come back to look at squeezing a few more thousand out, we probably would've had the property at that point.

        • +26

          sounds like they did come back and you thought you were being smart by calling their bluff.

          • +5

            @plasmog: In hindsight yeah, but there wasn't really a prompt by them to push for more $$$, it really felt like it was an update on where things were at more than anything.

            We ended up finding another property, closer to the city with a similar layout, smaller backyard. Property value has increased significantly more on the one we were successful compared to the one we missed out on.

            • +4

              @sghetti: Winning

              We bailed on an offer 5k short of what the seller wanted. I had serious FOMO at the time - it was a terrible location - corner of busy main roads.

              They ended up losing another 15k (in Brisbane this was a fair chunk 6 years ago). Soon found somewhere way better. Life is good!

              • @WhyAmICommenting: You need to keep in mind that you didn't just lose out by a mere $5k. You have no idea how high the other person might have gone.

                • @Calvin27: Pretty sure the agent told us sometime afterward. We were looking in the area, and ended up buying something else through that agent.

                  The final offer the vendor accepted was 10 or 15k less than ours. But we had already walked.

            • +5

              @sghetti: You've also got an insight into the REA mind. they don't care that much about getting the best possible price. they just want the sale completed. an extra 20k on the sale price is nothing to them compared to the big commission on a sale.

      • +3

        If you're not willing to walk away from negotiations, then you are powerless on the bargaining table.

        More people need to stand up for themselves, and hopefully remove the standard practice of using housing as a speculative investment.

    • +40

      Double down. Say you are looking at other properties. Your offer is valid until 5pm.

      • +15

        Agree, play the RE’s bluff, tell them your offer is only valid until a certain time, cause u have seen other properties of interest. Bottom line most RE just cant be trusted.

        • +9

          Indeed. As a general rule it's invariably a very bad idea to put your trust in someone who is trying to either sell you something or buy something from you.
          Your best interests will never be at the head of either queue.

          The very best you can hope for is for your best interests to coincide with theirs but that's not something you would ever put money on.

          As far as REAs are concerned, their primary interest is always extracting the most money possible from buyers.

          • +2

            @BinaryPirate: In fact they are LEGALLY BOUND to serve the seller's interest. Their contract is with the seller, not you. When it is your turn to sell you have a right to expect them to play some games to get a fast sale at top price.

            It doesn't mean anything goes - the law limits what they can do, and anyway honest REAs do exist. But when buying RE never forget for a moment who they work for.

        • +26

          'Nail on the head'.

          If their lips are moving, they're lying.

          Sold our house through a RE who told us we would receive $500 if we persuaded a friend to sell with him.
          Sent email to friend, who subsequently sold with him (for a drastically-reduced price).

          The RE then told us that he had done a letter-box drop which netted the new contact.
          We proved that our email was received ONE WEEK before his letter-box drop.

          When we further requested the $500, he told us to "get fxxxxxx!"

          They are the dregs of society

          • +6

            @Forkinhell: How much do two car tyres cost to replace?

            • +9

              @MrBear: Half as much as 4

              • +1

                @Jackson: As an Ozbargainer, you should know that you only by 4-for-the-price-of-3 when it comes to tyres… so not half. :)

                • +1

                  @MrBear: Unless you are like me and get them from mycar on blackfriday in which case they are 2 for 1. Just don't slash his tyres on blackfriday

            • +1

              @MrBear: Forkintyre?

            • @MrBear: As someone who has never changed car tyres I feel like there's a life lesson in what you're saying. Could you elaborate?

      • +1

        REA be like: Understandable sir! Have a nice day. Bye!
        You be like: :(

      • +1

        Spot on. Offer should always be made with a time limit.
        they cant just sit on it and hope for more.
        You offer what you are happy to pay and walk away otherwise

    • +2

      From my experience, no agent will accept your offer until you say that that's the absolute maximum you are willing to go and that you can't go any higher. Otherwise they just keep asking you to do more and go higher so you don't "miss out".

  • +9

    Add $1 to your offer.

    • +2

      i've usually offer 0.50cents

      • +12

        Half a cent?

          • +25

            @jollibot: LOL. 0.50 cents is half a cent! I think you meant to say $0.50.

            Who's the idiot now 🤣

            • @photonbuddy: Wasn't even me who commented originally, I was just making a joke but you do you 👍

              • @jollibot:

                Wasn't even me who commented originally,

                Sure, but it WAS you that made a wisecrack in response to Quantumcat!

                A wisecrack that just made you look silly. Own it …

                • -1

                  @photonbuddy: Still don't think it makes me look silly, but OzBargain is not known for its sense of humour anyway.

          • @jollibot: Bot is rude. Name does not check out.

  • It's illegal for people at an auction to make a agreement on price. But should it?

    • +3

      Where is the auction?

    • +1

      Its not an auction mate

      • +4

        REA turning it into one…..

        • A private sale does not preclude negotiations for a higher offer though.

        • They aren’t allowed to say how much the other offer is. They can just claim that there is one and ask for your “best offer” ie: more.

        • +1

          REA merely said there were two offers. OP would be pissed if they missed out and weren’t given tge opportunity to offer more.

  • +9

    Call the REA and say that you need an answer by COB today or you are walking away. If he gets back by COB and says that there is abetter offer etc then ask how much was the other offer and you will get back to him in the morning if you can make a better offer or have to let it go.

    Bluff the REA into getting back to you ASAP and then string him along for a time for a better offer as if you give a better offer straight up the REA will keep trying it on.

    • +8

      Its very hard to get an offer amount out of them. In my experience they never tell you how much the other offers are

      • +2

        It because the are not allowed to do so.

        Conduct which may be considered misleading or deceptive and/or unconscionable can include, but is not limited to: an agent playing potential buyers off against each other in an attempt to draw out further offers and drive up the sale price

      • Waste of time responding as you have already bought before by the sounds of it an know how it works.

  • +5

    Most times they are bluffing. The annoying thing is that sometimes they are not.

    You probably wouldn't want to follow what I do as I am a sucker. A couple times I called their bluff because I didn't see many other interested people about and won. When there was lots of interest, I knew the agent isn't bluffing. Once I called their bluff and they immediately told me that I had lost the deal. The latest time I really wanted the property, so I up'd my offer. I doubt there was another buyer but didn't want to take the chance.

    • This is what I'm thinking as well. Do I like the place so much to go with my best offer or stick with the current price and see how it goes.

      • +4

        The thing here is that many buyers don't really know what their "best offer" is.

        You often see buyers confusing "best offer" with the extremes of "what is someone else going to pay?" and "how much can I physically afford?".

        I always counsel people that their "best offer" should be the price at which they are happy to buy the property (regardless of what others might pay), but above which they are not unhappy to have missed out.

  • +16

    "Today I got an update that they have received another offer as well and the vendor will choose between both."

    I call BS.

    If the vendor has 2 offers they would take the highest one. What is there to 'choose'.

    • +6

      1 - it implys they are open to a counter offer.
      2 - it's not common but sometimes a seller will go with the better buyer if the difference is small e.g. selling to a new family instead of a developer who plans to knock down.

      • Sure, but the OP said it was just a block of land.
        Cheers

      • +6

        Less money but a shorter settlement and other conditions like that are also points that I have seen taken into consideration for property sales. Not necessarily always just the highest dollar value.

    • +8

      If the vendor has 2 offers they would take the highest one. What is there to 'choose'.

      The classic example is settlement terms. Once party may want an extended settlement (three to six months) vs the standard six weeks. Depending on the difference in price, many sellers will prefer the standard terms, noting they want cash in their pocket to get on with whatever else they have going in their lives.

      • +1

        Fair enough, good point.

      • This one got me last year. I wanted 45 days and agent said seller wanted less. I said COVID needs longer settlement just in case of lockdowns or illness. Agent said too bad and sold the house for $50,000 less than my offer. Which is insane! Did the seller really not want to wait two weeks for $50,000 extra on a piece of shit house?

        • +1

          Seller probably already bought a new house and needed the money sooner rather than get a bridging loan.

  • +8

    Does it really even matter ? Stick to your offer, there is no point in bidding against yourself.

    • +1

      depends on the climate.

      Sydney - Northern Beaches early last year i was faced with the same issue. Made an offer that wasnt accepted (on a house we loved), had already missed out (by a country mile a number of others). Agent did the same thing, called to say there was 2 other buyers, and would be taking the best offer by 5pm.

      5pm rolled around, "have to wait until 11am tomorrow as one of the other buyers needs more time". If I didnt love the place, and/or the market wasnt nuts - I would have threatened to pull my offer. Instead i increased my offer by ~3% haha. I purchased the property - will never know if i pid 3% more than i needed to… but we love the house, so happy we bought it (and thanks to 2021 price rises the value has apparently increased by 24% since then anyway, noting will probably drop this year haha).

      Long story short - who the F knows. If you love the house - pay what you're happy to not lose it for if the market is hot. if the market is not hot, there'll probably be another one you can buy if you miss this one.

  • +4

    "You can always trust a real estate agent"

  • +10

    You know what they say… if the agents lips are moving their lying

  • +19

    Check the rego due date on the REA's BMW using the VicRoads rego check.

    If it due soon then he's not bluffing. He wants his commission because very likely his insurance renewal is also due.

  • +10

    If there is an emotional attachment to the place, up the offer.
    If it is just a block of land and you could find a substitute, stick to your guns.

    If it is the ideal place for all your hopes and dreams, you’ll always feel a twinge you missed out when you drive by in future. Worth a little to avoid that feeling.

    • If there is an emotional attachment to the place, up the offer.

      Whilst I understand the point you’re trying to make, the ‘emotional factor’ is what gets people to spend beyond their means.

  • +1

    Sounds like grade A BS to me. Never listen to anything an agent says.

    • I ignored them when they told me my offer was accepted as I thought it was grade A BS.

      I only realised I had the house when I received a letter from their lawyer demanding payment.

  • +3

    My last 2 purchases, the land didn't have a varying range, so purchased on the spot, my current place had a range, I offered the top of the range, there were 6 offers, only one offer was the same and they had a condition of selling their own place. (This was 5 days from listing to done). 15 months later, the place is now valued close to 300k more.

    If you WANT that block, offer the Max of the range, what's 10, 20k etc over 30 years anyway?

    • +3

      what's 10, 20k etc over 30 years anyway?

      A lot.. assuming 4% interest rate over 30 years… it'll be 32-65k.

      • +2

        $65k is much less than the $300k its apparently gone up…

        If prises are rising, could end up paying that $65k now (plus the 30yrs of interest on that 65k) to get something similar in an increasing market.

    • Thanks jv. Is there a similar article for phone conversations?

      • jv's article works for video phone conversations

    • Good comment

  • +1

    How Can You Tell if The Estate Agent Is Bluffing or Not?.

    Key here is, they are a REA.

  • +7

    I recently experienced this very situation. I asked for proof of the offer and, after initially being reluctant, REA sent copy of the email outlining the offer from the other interested party with personal details redacted.

    As much as REAs will try to screw you over to get a higher price for the vendor (via underquoting, verbal bluffs etc), they are unlikely to fraudulently send a written document to achieve this.

  • Agents don't tend to lie so explicitly, e.g. 'another party offered higher than that yesterday'. This lie might turn away a buyer and the agent would be left with no buyer. The agent's priority is just to sell the property, not necessarily get the highest price.

    Ask them about the property though and they'll lie their nose off. ('The best street!', 'all that is council approved!')

    • They do lie that explicitly. If you call their bluff, they'll call you the next day and tell you that the other party has withdrawn their offer and now if you want it, offer a little more and it's yours. So you offer $1 more.

  • +4

    You'll never know if they're bluffing or not.

    I made an offer on a house that sold for less than my offer - turns out the agent sold it to his friend for something like $30,000 under what I offered. It wasn't slight difference either, but rather sold for $300,000 to my $330,000 offer (houses were much cheaper in the early 2000s).

    Another agent would always come to a friend of mine to offer houses and my friend would buy (he has something like 40 houses). The agent would always ask for some obscure amount, like $500,500, such that he could go back to the vendor and say 'I even squeeze them for another $500 - it's the best offer you're going to get'.

    Agents' income is in turnover of houses, not the 'best' price for each party.

    • -4

      … turns out the agent sold it to his friend for something like $30,000 under….

      Admittedly, that's exactly how I bought my place! I'm not complaining though… :)

    • how did he manage that one? surely the owner would have wanted the extra 30 k?

      • +2

        Presumably agent never told the owner about the offer and sold to his (agent's) friend.

        Agents not telling sellers is not uncommon. Friend made an offer on a house which was rejected by agent. House eventually to auction and friend won, and got it for less than his offer. When signing the papers, he saidto sellers 'you should have accepted my earlier offer', to which they replied 'what offer?'

        Friend said agent turned red.

        • would that not be illegal?

          • @[Deactivated]: I did follow up and reported him, particularly also because I had provided a $10,000 cheque as part of my offer.

            He still practises today as i see his name around here and there. I knew he sold to a friend because another friend that knew the agent told me - the other friend didnt know I had put in an offer.

            • @Porker: that is really scummy. i would be reporting it to the person who owned the house and letting them get all worked up about it, they lost out on 30 k after all, so they would be motivated to get something done.

        • What was the follow up? Any penalty?

  • +2

    If you're willing to play the long game, send in a friend/relative as another prospective buyer.

    Makes it a bit easier to suss out agent BS. Both the buyers should ask pointed questions like - "How many contracts have you issued?" They may not answer truthfully, but different answers should set off your BS meter.

    Your friend should drag their feet on making an offer, using excuses like "waiting for broker valuation, etc" or "bank valuation came back lower than expected" or "potential construction issues".

  • A conveyancer friend of mine told me when you're making an offer to tell the agent that you have the ability to offer more. They are obliged to relay that information to the client.

    • +3

      …tell the agent that you have the ability to offer more.

      That might be shooting yourself in the foot though. It gives them the green light to try and squeeze more from you!

      • +4

        Could later clarify you meant an extra $10

      • But if you really want a property and you put forth a reasonable offer, it gives you an opportunity to put yourself forward ahead of someone who may have offered slightly more than you.

        • +1

          If as a seller… I receive an offer with an additional note of 'the prospective buyers have the ability to offer more' then guess what I'm going to do?

          Ask for more.

          • @buckethat: Then the seller has to show their cards by giving a number they want. I did this when I bought my house and it worked in my favour.

    • wouldn't be getting any more negotiation advice from them

  • FOMO is real.

    Just look at the bank's forecasts of plateau/tiny increase through 2022 and when interest rates bite in 2023 carnage (10% drops).
    Don't get suckered into Realestate.com and Domains 'news articles' that they pass through Newscorp media businesses, it's all propaganda.

    60% of investment properties are losing money.
    And the market has just peaked with New Zealand about 6 months ahead of us (we're following them).

    • Yeah but that's what they've been saying since 2010

      • +1

        But there is one common theme between then and now, decreasing interest rates.

        With a big uptick in inflation the long overdue increase in rates is going to be inevitable.

      • -1

        They've been saying it since Adam was a boy!

    • Same thing was said about UK. Interest rates have gone up, inflation has kicked in really hard (e.g. energy price hikes) but the housing market is showing no signs of slowing down.

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