Hi guys,
I was recently made redundant as a contractor. No reasons provided and no warning. I was doing really well too.
Just provided me the notice and said off you go.
What are my rights? I called up fair work, and they said can’t help me.
I would really like to know the reason for the notice so that I don’t make the same mistake (if I made any next time).
Any suggestions of what my rights are?
Thanks!
As a contractor there's probably no redundancy pay but in most cases they would be earning a higher rate than the regular employees for the whole time they worked there. Common sense says save some of it for exactly this situation.
Common sense says save some of it for exactly this situation.
wait so I shouldn't have used that extra money to buy a fancy car and all those dinners?
damn
OP - 8 months ago you posted how you wanted to work in the UK on a Visa for 2 years. [So leaving any existing commitments as of right now]
Maybe the company hiring you realised you were already looking elsewhere or it reflected in the work you were providing so they cut the tether.
The world is rough sometimes, best of luck.
You were too cynical.
But seriously. Did you ask your manager/workplace HR at least?
Isn't that the risk you take being a contractor?
Contractor. The HR would be in the contracting and not where OP got fired from.
HR? Contractors are put through sourcing like pens and paper.
Are you being funny JK?
HR is there to protect and act on behalf of the employer. Not the employee.
Besides they will only respond to employees. Not contractors.
OP is a contractor and obviously doesn't understand his position
For OP's benefit Contractors are hired on a day to day basis.
They have no workplace rights other than to have a safe workplace and to get paid for the work they were hired to do.
OP already has his reply
"What are my rights? I called up fair work, and they said can’t help me."
Does OP think we are a higher authority than Fair Work Australia?
Not sure whether that's a (hilarious) compliment to OB or just demonstrates OP's complete lack of knowledge of the workplace.
I did think HR would be one avenue/option, I now know how wrong I was.
Yep. Ive been there. Done that.
Had HR do me no favours me because they are acting on behalf of the employer.
Its like going to the police and telling them everything do did wrong. Then asking for help
They just tell it all to the judge, being the employer in this case, and your goose is cooked
I work in HR, and I help employees. I got into HR to help people, not just help employers, but not all HR people are the same as me.
There are also different types of contractor, and employment arrangements; some contractors are actually legally employees depending on the arrangements.
If OP was the kind of contractor I'm thinking of, I might have been able to help, others though come and go without the workplace even knowing. Even in that case, that's what I would tell the person if they came to me: you need to speak with your contracted supervisor/owner, etc, because I don't know.
It sounds as though your role was terminated in alignment with your contract.
Move on.
Almost 100% certain.
Every contract I've ever been on effectively allows either party to terminate on two weeks' notice (or whatever the timeframe happens to be) whenever it suits them.
It is what it is.
take the premium but give up any 'benefits'….. either way you would have probably been terminated. Contingent labour first and then everyone else.
2 weeks? My employment with a contracting company required 1 hours notice, because the company using us gave 0. Just Friday afternoon said "that'll do, we'll take it from here".
Maybe I should have sued that I didn't get the promised notice?
What are my rights?
At least in the places I've worked this is why contractors got paid hourly waaaaay more than the rest of us full time plebs in the same workplace, unless they were bad negotiators :P. Trade off things like various leaves and ability to transfer within the company.
'See ya' bye is one of the trade-offs and the notice period would be in your contract. So for next time, ensure one is in there?
You haven't exactly mentioned how you think it is unfair to begin with. The notice period is up to your contract. And performance is not the only reason for offloading a contractor.
Pretty much what dufflover said. Your only recourse is to review the original contract.
If your dismissal was in line with the terms in the contract that you and your employer had signed, then nothing you can do.
If you are on good terms if your employer you can ask nicely for the reason, e.g. thank you for the opportunity to work here…I really enjoyed it….as part of the continuous selfimprovement of my services can you please advise the reason for my termination….blah blah. Note that they are under no obligation to respond.
As a contractor you have the rights bestowed upon you by the contract. Read your contract and see what it says.
redundant as a contractor
The whole point of being a contractor is you're not an employee and therefor don't need to be made redundant. They can simply end your contract.
When you work as a contractor you should recognise you're being paid a higher rate in exchange for the job insecurity. Hopefully you've been saving this extra cash to tide you over until you secure your next contract.
According to your post you got a 50% pay rise to move to contracting. This is one of the downsides to it…
Yeah that's only really true for skilled contractors. I worked many contracts for low end customer service roles in my twenties and in the few where I was working alongside permanent employees doing the same role in every case the permanent employees were on the same, if not higher, hourly rate.
EDIT: Nevermind, just read the linked post.
Yes there is a very real problem with "sham contractors" being used to get out of workplace protections, however this isn't one of them.
Are you thinking of casual work?
A contractor is different.
Retail work is never contract work because they define the hours, provide equipment etc.
No, full-time contract work. Call centres.
Huh, several people warned them early/sudden termination were downsides.
I was recently made redundant as a contractor. No reasons provided and no warning.
Just provided me the notice and said off you go.
If you read your contract, this is all they have to do. Give you the notice period and you're done. There are no warnings, no performance plan, no reason needed to be given.
I called up fair work, and they said can’t help me.
This is correct, as above.
What are my rights?
You're a free person to start your next job!
As a contractor you're only guaranteed income/work is today + your notice period.
No reasons provided and no warning.
That's one of the downsides of being a contractor. But the extra pay makes up for it. Did they pay you for the notice period as specified in your contract? I've seen the periods range from as short as one hour to four weeks.
If you were doing well as you said you were, I'm assuming you at least would have had a half decent relationship with your boss (ex-boss now), so why not ask him/her?
Did they pay out your contract or did it hit it's expiry date?
Going by a previous post they made, they seem to be on a 12-month contract which started in Winter last year.
So they made you redundant in line with your contract.
You didn't get "dismissed" your contract was wound up and you were made redundant.
They're within their rights to do this.
Nothing new, sorry need to move on
This is why contractors get paid the big bucks, risk and reward.
That is unless you're a victim of Sham Contracting.
When I worked with the contactors I was paid on an hourly basis with a notice period of 1 hour.
Anything more than that was a bonus.
Reasons were not given, nor expected.
You may not have done anything wrong, they might have just decided not to continue whatever project you were working on.
This is the downside to being a contractor, no security.
you are a contractor.
check you contract terms.
contractors get paid more $ as you have security, and can be let go as need be, hence why companies use contractors.
move on get another contract, if they don't give a reason then not the end of the world, maybe was just budget related.
I have an opportunity to accept a 12 month contract role in IT.
What are some things to watch out for in contract roles in IT?
OzB
You get more pay but no sick, annual, long service leave.
You can be let go at any time.
OP
I was recently made redundant as a contractor. No reasons provided and no warning
Best post on this thread haha
You seem too hung up on the 'reason', OP.
It can simply be that it's no longer viable for them.
They may choose to provide an explanation, but they don't have to, which is one of the perks of hiring contractors.
Dwelling on it any further will only damage your own mental health and relationship with this (ex, but potentially future) employer.
If you're still having issues with all this then perhaps contract work is not for you, which is ok too.
Redundancy generally means "Your position is no longer required". In essence it should mean that there is no one replacing you. In practice it means they can hire someone else for a similar job
In the end it may have nothing to do with skill, it could be they can find someone to do the same job for less pay. It could mean they are making the position an employee (rather than a contractor) which would also be at lower pay.
But…why male models?
I'm happy to share the reason with you with ~99.9% accuracy.
Money.
You cost them money. They don't want to pay you that money. Simples.
I think it's been stated plenty here, but as a IT Manager over the years, some of the reasons I've let Contractors go:
— Company budget was fine, but team budget was running out. Forced by my manager at the time to rectify
— Contractor, while senior and did great work, also complained about anything done that wasn't the direction he wanted to go. More too it, but annoying if an employee was permanent, move on if they're a contractor.
— Full Time employee returned from Maternity leave.
— Company decided they wanted to save money and all employees had to move to FTE or leave.
There are many many reasons, like others have said, it's the reason contractor (particularly in IT) get paid a lot more than those in Full-time roles. The company could be about to go through a series of redundancies and they want to reduce costs as much as they can before that happens.
It's a very hot market at the moment, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a new gig.
Another one could be that a much larger deal was signed with some other services firm/body-shop and there was a directive to the business to start cutting contractors and leveraging the FTE from the new firm.
Asking for a reason saying it's being professional is like me asking why I didn't get a 2nd 1st date as being polite.
so they were just being unprofessional (in your opinion) but not illegal.
Hence 'contractor'
This is pretty normal for contract work. Not sure what you were expecting OP.
full time work is better m8
lol… how?
You can delay most of your leave entitlement until the very end when you have got multiple pay rises. So the idea is accumulate as much leave as you can, then take them when you're about to leave/retire, and you'll be paid at the higher rate than you would have in the previous years.
As a contractor, you get paid you leave entitlement each pay cheque… It is built into your rate.
@jv: You can delay most of your leave entitlement until the very end when you have got multiple pay rises. So the idea is accumulate as much leave as you can, then take them when you're about to leave/retire, and you'll be paid at the higher rate than you would have in the previous years.
@tio: So never take a holiday for ten years…. That’s not living and you burn out mentally.
As a contractor you can not take leave and should you have a gap you have the coin saved, or if it gets renewed take a 2-4 week gap and the new contract doesn’t start till later.
A contractor works 46 weeks a year excluding sickness at double the rate in many industries, it’s actually less intense as you don’t give a rats about the politics and just do what your told.
By February every fine year I’ve already earned the full time equivalent so worth the risk, the variety is lots better, you make more connections, not the same work day in day out with the same people.
Anyway that’s my 2 cents each to their own
ummm yeah, work yourself to the bone and sacrifice your physical and mental health for a few extra bucks at the end.
a lot of employers will force you to take annual leave if you have a huge balance
@DJR9000: Some like to use their entitlements as soon as they have it. Some like to use it when they want to use it. Not really a "sacrifice" if you can do what you want to do.
@tio: One other thing to remember re leave entitlements is that if you use it up while still employed, you continue to receive employer superannuation payments as per usual while on leave. If you choose to take it as a lump sum at the termination of your employment, you don’t receive these super payments for the period of this accumulated leave. A lot of people are incognizant of this, and HR is unlikely to tell them. Of course, this is immaterial if your employment is terminated at short notice. But I have worked with people who have accumulated more than three months annual leave or up to six months long service leave and have happily taken it as a lump payment when they decided to change jobs or retire. There’s potentially a lot of employer super payments in those amounts of leave, particularly if you are on a high salary.
If you choose to take it as a lump sum at the termination of your employment
What's the alternative though? You ask them if you can take the leave at the very end of your employment (eg I'm going to stop working Dec 31, but just keep paying me until my leave balance runs out)? I can't see what's in it for the employer to do it this way
If you're saying that you should use your leave while you're still employed and not yet retiring/quitting so you have a leave balance of zero at the end, then you'd be getting less pay than if you saved it for a lump payment to the end won't you? Of course you'd arguably have better mental health but that's a different topic.
@aragornelessar: There's nothing in it for the employer - you do it for yourself.
* Check leave balance: x weeks
* Tell new employer your available in x weeks
* Apply for x weeks leave
* When leave approved, submit resignation: final day = last day of leave
@SlickMick: Yep, this scheme works better. Three key reasons;
Whilst on annual leave you continue to accrue all the usual entitlements (annual, sick and long service leave), for example if you take 12 weeks leave, you will accrue another week of annual leave during that period.
If any public holidays fall whilst on annual leave, those days are still paid, but no hours are deducted from your leave balance. (Very handy over easter).
Wages whilst employed, but on leave attract superannuation. Whereas, payment of a lumpsum for accrued leave on termination does not attract super.
@SlickMick: In this situation you are better just taking it as a lump sum and starting with thr new employer.
Instead of trying to milk 10% super you could be earning 100% your pay with the new company.
But the better option is to take leave and then start with a new employer, then submit resignation 2 weeks before the end of your leave.
Most employers set an expectation that people will take their leave within each financial period. Although they may allow you to carry some over to subsequent periods they do not have to accept indefinite deferral and indeed would be reluctant to do so because they would have to accrue your accumulated leave benefits.
yeh nah, id rather work for double the money, full time jobs I feel trapped with stale work, rubbish politics and end of the day no security anyway.
and the perks are usually rubbish these days.
So long as the increased rate compensates for anything lacking: annual leave, sick leave, public holidays.
I recently left a contract with no responsibility, for a full time job and now earn less… I thought I was doing it for job security but I can't see me staying here longer than I have to.
If I could turn back time I'd still be contracting.
We really need to have better education around job types and requirements in Australia, both for residents and people coming from overseas. Lack of knowledge is how people get taken advantage of and what continues to degrade working standards in this country.
Employment information is freely available via FairWork
Regardless, OP knew there would be differences going on a contract and was specifically warned of the pitfalls.
It's available but that doesn't mean that it's known or taught, as you can see in this person's case? There's clearly a lack of knowledge and understanding somewhere.
@DivZero: Actually reading that post and reading through the comments on this thread, it still seems like there is a lack of knowledge in general. There is a clear distinction between being an employee on a fixed-term contract and being a contractor working as their own business, that only very few comments seem to address. Their previous post suggests that was about a fixed-term role. This post suggests this issue was about a contracted role however it seems like OP has disappeared into the wilderness and can't clarify.
In any case, my point is more that this stuff should be taught more widely so as to avoid two random OzB posts and confused responses lol. It's pretty basic stuff but just because information is available doesn't mean people know to access it and understand it. There are many local Trades Hall groups that do try to better inform and educate people but they can only access so many people and in so many languages.
OP has disappeared into the wilderness and can't clarify.
Made use of recent experience and terminated their forum contract
@kanmen: You can lead a horse to water. You can't make it drink.
Employment law basics are freely available, by the internet, by phone, in person previously (probably not now due to spicy cough).
It's up to the person to find out the information relevant to them. Ignorance is not a defence.
@kanmen: Late reply by me but what you linked is how the ATO sees them for tax purposes. That is separate in some ways from the actual labour regulations applicable. For example, I was a contractor that - for tax purposes, according to your ATO link - was most definitely taxed as an employee. That is, I was working through a labour-hire firm on loan to another company and I could not subcontract, nor was I paid a fixed amount to do a specific job. I was very much employed on an hourly rate.
However in terms of my rights, I was definitely just a contractor - basically casualised labour even though I worked in an office doing an office job. That company sacked several of my coworkers with zero-notice and at one point were about to sack the entire time with zero-notice days before Xmas because priorities were changing. When I left, near the end of my 'contract' [term of offered employment] I quit also with zero-notice. I don't think they liked that but it was entirely legal as my labour hire 'handler' confirmed when I emailed her with my resignation. She confirmed in her reply email to my quitting notice that 'a moment's notice is what is officially required and I had provided them with exactly a moment's notice'.
Fair Work Australia is definitely a better place to seek info on the aspects of notice periods and employer obligations than the ATO in the case of the OP IMO.
I thought that's what Ozb is for :-P
Yep, casual employment is eroding all the employee rights that took years to fight for
Any suggestions of what my rights are?
What does your contract say?
Your rights are what you agreed to when you signed up to be a contractor - you are not a permanent employee and as such can be terminated easily
you are not a permanent employee and as such can be terminated easily
permanent employees can also be terminated easily
Not really, depending on the workplace there are often "back on track" programs to get your productivity back up to a place where you don't need to be fired anymore, plus they need a real reason as there are unfair dismissal laws. You can be fired as a contractor because they don't like your hairstyle or for any other random reason.
takes 5 seconds to make a "position" redundant. its not hard
@Donaldhump: If you get made redundant in a permie job you get paid out a decent amount of money. And if they are lying and the position remains you can follow that up with Fair Work.
@Quantumcat: You get paid sfa compared to what you earn as a contractor.
Work 5 years and get 10 weeks or so? Or work 5 years and get double and no pay out…
If you think about how long you actually stay in a full time job , if your someone who likes to move every 2-3 years then why bother working full time. If your someone who wants to work at one place for 40 years then maybe work full time, but in the long run in my opinion why work for half the money
@Donaldhump: In those 5 years you could easily have 6 months worth of time between contracts. And you have to cover your own super and leave (including several weeks over Christmas/new year).
If you are young, healthy, have no dependents and a sound head on your shoulders (know how to save for a rainy day), then contracting is great. If you are weak-willed (will spend all the money you earn and get used to the lifestyle that gives you), or have a health condition that means you need sick leave from time to time, or have children and don't have a partner whose job lets them take all the kids' sick days off, then contracting is a bad idea.
Contracting can be great but it isn't great for everybody.
@Quantumcat: Yep anyway it’s off topic, op was a contractor and got let go, not sure what their qualm is.
@spaceflight: Make a hybrid position on paper which the prior person didn’t have skill for, or wait 12 months, or wait till prev person gets new job, inform their position is available again and there’s if they want it, but given they have new job and won’t want to return the redundancy money they will decline.
they are so not lol..I have worked with some terrible and lazy employees, even if they get put on perf management the company won't be able to fire them easily. Perks of working at big corps some may say…
Perks of working at big corps some may say…
Also in government at any level…
UnFair dismissal as a contractor
Fixed the title for you OP.
Go sell your service to their competitor. You'll be a valuable asset now that you know all their secrets.
Fredfloresjr on 08/02/2022 - 14:06 Comment score below threshold.
