Housing Pickle, Any Help Would Be Appreciated

frewer on 26/01/2022 - 14:10
Last edited 28/01/2022 - 19:33 by 1 other user

G'day all strangers,

I'll keep this short. My wife ask me to post this.

She bought (7yrs ago, when she was young & naïve) a house, in Geelong area, with her father. On the paper she own 95%, 5% is her dad. She never stay there, beside a few holidays. They paid a total of $350000 and and owing $160000.

A few year ago, she was diagnose with cancer. So that change her perspective/goal/priority in life. She want to sell the house ( we did tried many times to talk him to rent out the place, but he said no lol ).

Is she able to sell without his permission. He can have his share and she can have her share? Will she needs legal advice? Will they able to pay back to the bank when they are done?

Are they tenants in common?

Thank you.

Here MS paint

EDIT: Excuse my bad grammar, English isnt my native language.
EDIT 2: Please stick to the topic at hand, I didnt ask for any judgement either us or her father. If I want it I would put it down. For those gave practical & helpful advice. THANK YOU !

UPDATE 1: Thank you for those suggestion, I have 1) Request further doco from the bank 2) Will use https://www.landata.online once those doco arrived.

Financial

Comments

    • frewer on 27/01/2022 - 19:51

      He is living there, refuse to go else where actually … And has 5% own of the property.

      Can she not sell her 95% to a potential buyer

      Say if she want to do this, who would she go to ? Real estate agent ? Thank you for your time.

      • THICKnSLOW on 28/01/2022 - 07:50

        Property lawyer.

        Have you and wife visited her father recently, or is the communication only by phone /whaptsapp?

        I suggest go and visit him, see the property, see Geelong. Owning land and house outside Melbourne city is much much better than a tiny unit or an apartment in the city. Apart from feeling like living in a prison, if catastrophe strikes the building do you have rights to live on the land afterwards?

        Far more tangible.

        Have you ever watched the movie The Castle? It's a great Aussie flick, feels like your father in law is a Kerrigan.

        • frewer on 28/01/2022 - 09:24

          Cheers, No we havent visit that house in a few years. Could be since her diagnose, he … well hadn't visit us either … Well he want a particular unit then he has a particular way to get that particular unit. Cant teach old dog new trick … not this old dog new way lol.

          As for the movie, I seen bit n bob of it. I was born oversea …

        • Dr Techno on 29/01/2022 - 19:02

          Mabo! It's just the vibe of it!

  • Daddy on 27/01/2022 - 19:56
    +4

    No one here can give you the information you need because you have provided a very nice story with none of the facts required for a proper legal analysis.

    You absolutely need to see a Property lawyer as you are asking for specific legal advice. In all Australian states, it is an offence to provide advice without a practising certificate.

    As for information (not advice), it may be helpful when you do seek advice from a qualified legal source, to provide the property title, the mortgage documents, and any written agreements between "your wife" and "her father". If you do not have these documents you will be paying ($40-$80 per 6 min) for wasting their time. Just because you described something that walks, talks, and quacks like a duck, it may legally be a goose and your description and/or source of information is wrong. A property lawyer will assist you here.

    If "your wife" has actual part/whole ownership of the property she would have all these documents as they were required/provided at the time of property purchase. Otherwise, start [here] (https://www.land.vic.gov.au/land-registration/for-individual…) and read further:

    https://www.land.vic.gov.au/land-registration/for-individual…

  • 80kinvestment on 27/01/2022 - 21:07
    +1

    Just redraw the money you need (or re-mortgage against the new value of the house). You get the money, no need to sell the asset, everyone wins.

    • frewer on 27/01/2022 - 21:11

      How does this works ? Sorry I/we absolutely new about these things

      • 80kinvestment on 28/01/2022 - 04:24

        I’m not sure, but I’m sure a broker could talk you through your options.

  • Cherry12 on 27/01/2022 - 22:27
    +1

    I think your FIL doesn't want to be homeless and that's his main driver.

    Even though he knows his daughter is sick he may be thinking that no matter what your salary will help cover her expenses.

    Nobody wins in this situation. I think the only solution is that he really believes that you and her daughter will arrange a different accommodation once the house is sold.

    Where was he living before buying the share of this house?

  • taoz on 27/01/2022 - 23:57

    you can force the sale, just a matter of how you go about it. Pay for advise for assistance, it may cost you few k over meetings etc.
    Or give him the option to buy you out.

    Sad situation, if was my daughter i'd be giving her the 5%.

    • frewer on 28/01/2022 - 00:03

      The thing is it not about the money, it's about peace of mind. She want to get out of that burden so to speak. She is willing to give him whatever $ in order for him to get a unit in Mel after the sale. But he want to keep the house as a 'family/holiday' house ( whatever that means )

      • taoz on 28/01/2022 - 00:27

        when you only own 5%, you have little say.
        If he really wants it, then he buy her out.

  • Aneurism on 28/01/2022 - 00:49
    +6

    A hot take from a different viewpoint:

    Everyone seems to assume that the percentages are actually what the people actually contributed directly. In reality, when there are family based circumstances, sometimes there is a lot more than meets the eye at a glance.

    For example, I have seen situations where on paper legally, the son/daughter owned 95% and the parent 5%, but it was actually the parent paying the entire or majority of the mortgage. (The 5% kept was to make it a bit more difficult to sell the place without cooperation, but not impossible under tenants in common).

    There are plenty of reasons why this might occur. There might also have been verbal agreements on how the property was going to be used at purchase as well.

    The first question I would want answered before laying armchair judgement on the parent is:

    What is actual direct contribution provided by the father compared to the daughter on the property ? eg. Do the historical contributions actually match the on paper ownership percentages ?

    Personally, I'm skeptical..Things don't add up and something smells fishy

    • OzBargainUserOne on 28/01/2022 - 03:41
      +2

      BINGO.

      I earn $15K a year, wife earns $150K a year. We bought a property with her on the title because the bank needed her income to get approved. Structured the title 95% in my name and 5% of my wife's since when it comes time to sell in a few years, more tax effective for me to have 95% of the expected profits. Mortgage payments are 90% paid by tenant.

      Same thing probably happened with OP (but with no tenant income). We have no idea how much OP's wife and FIL have paid (ratio-wise).

      • gromit on 28/01/2022 - 10:24
        +2

        I am more and more suspecting this is more likely the scenario here too and they are attempting to exploit the FIL's tax structure arrangements to take what he has probably mostly paid for.

    • frewer on 28/01/2022 - 10:29
      -2

      Idk exactly how much it was, but she was sending a good chunk of her earning into his account, then from that his pay into the bank. Idk why it set up that way, at the time I didnt want coz issue so I was involve in it.

  • acersaurus on 28/01/2022 - 07:06

    I wouldn't depend on Oz legal advice. And it will only require a small cost to find out from a lawyer.

    Sorry about the cancer. On the upside, a house in Geelong 7 years ago has since likely doubled in value.

  • serpserpserp on 28/01/2022 - 09:22

    OP you need to tell us if one person or two is on the loan docs or mortgage title.

    • frewer on 28/01/2022 - 09:26

      I ask for the doco from her bank. Waiting for it, she doesnt know much ( hence I said naive ). Now I gotta deal with it, so Im finding out infor as I go …

  • mini2 on 28/01/2022 - 10:31

    Buy the remaining 5% off her dad?

    • frewer on 28/01/2022 - 10:34

      The issue is that he has particular way of think, and if reality doesnt match it he wont even change it … So he always thinking about the house as family/holiday house … and that particular way of thinking seems hasnt change … even though a lot has changed since the purchase …

  • aobed on 28/01/2022 - 17:19
    +1

    Were there any clauses in the original arrangement between the dad and daughter regarding sale of the property?

  • nightfever on 28/01/2022 - 19:38
    +1

    In Vic, regardless it being tenants in common (owners have percentage shares of the property) or joint tenant (where owners have equal share/rights of the property). When completing a full property transfer OR a partial property share transfer, all owners are required to be represented by the solicitor/conveyancer. For the solicitor/conveyancer to legally represent the owners, all owners must each complete a client authorisation form - this is to be done at your cost and processed by the Australia Post Office.

    This above is enough to present as a roadblock for her in this situation (since the dad is likely unwilling based on your post/comments) and is enough for the transaction to not go through.

    Would suggest your wife to seek professional legal advice on how to get around it, but it will likely be fairly challenging. If there was some sort of prior legal ownership agreement in place it may/will help, but this is something she should be seeking clarification from the legal professionals. :( Good luck to OP & your wife. (Sorry to hear about the tough situation for her health as well as the property issue)

    • frewer on 28/01/2022 - 21:22

      Those are new points for me to add on my list …

      For the solicitor/conveyancer to legally represent the owners, all owners must each complete a client authorisation form

      In this case, if he doesnt want it he doesnt have to complete the form right ? She can do it alone ? It gives me n her the headache just to think about, we found out about this 'issue' with his way of thinking some year ago. However, it was too much to think about so 'wept it under the rug' now the rug had gotten too big, I have to deal with it :(. Thank you for your help, it's suck but it is what it is …

      • nightfever on 28/01/2022 - 21:30
        +1

        No, the condition is - both of them will have to complete the form. If he refuses to, then the transaction won’t go through - the property will not get transferred to and registered under the new owner. It sucks, but that’s the rule for Vic.

        She may be able get around it, like going to VCAT but I believe you did mention it’s not the preferred way. :(

        Check in with a professional legal adviser. They should be able to give her some basic guidance without incurring any charges.

        • john_conner on 29/01/2022 - 13:37

          Agreed. Get professional advice. If an agreement can’t be reached, VCAT is required.

  • screensaver on 29/01/2022 - 05:57
    +1

    Get any and all documents together, bank records, emals, anything connected to the sale and photocopy everything to make it easier for the property/contract lawyer you will need to see.

  • MND on 29/01/2022 - 07:56

    I reckon there is missing information in this post. So if your wife hasn't lived in the house. It would assume house is either empty (producing no rent) or the father has struck a deal with her to give her 95% ownership and probably a substantial amount towards the house loan and is paying a smaller sum In order to stay there for cheaper, until his dying days (inheritance). Now she wants to sell it as Geelong housing is hot right now. Likewise housing is so expensive rent is up it all seems like a recipe for a tidy profit. I hope this post is not playing on peoples emotions bringing the likes of cancer into the post! I would assume the father would be more compassionate towards this situation if her life was coming to an end!

    • gromit on 29/01/2022 - 09:31
      +2

      Yep the more I read the less I believe they are the aggrieved parties. it is too much effort to ask or find out how much she has actually paid towards the house yet not to much effort to spend hours answering on a forum or investigating documentation with bank. my money at this point is they are the unreasonable ones in all this and he has probably paid the majority of the property but put it in her name. Hope I am wrong, but the answers and comments from frewer thus far all point towards this.

    • frewer on 29/01/2022 - 10:27
      -3

      Nothing can further from the truth, read what I reply to others post

      • gromit on 29/01/2022 - 10:42
        +2

        I have read what you have replied, and that is the issue as you don't answer or provide the complete picture. Please enlighten us and tell us the percentage each party has contributed. I am more than open to being wrong, just you seem to have dodged the question everytime it is asked or said "not sure" or "And how will it help her situation ?" or "I will try that, seems like really time consuming and troublesome. It is over 10years … the last thing we want to do is waste time into that …"

  • Mysterious Laptop on 29/01/2022 - 15:46

    Why not just sit down with him to discuss about buying his "share"? Then once that's settled you can do whatever you please.

    • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2022 - 17:09
      +1

      Because he is living in it for free despite only owning 5%? I seriously doubt he only owns 5% for this arrangement either OP left something out or the percentage is much higher on the title deed

  • gearboxtech on 29/01/2022 - 20:12
    +2

    You frankly need legal advice for a legal issue. Legal means put aside your personal, moral and religious beliefs and do what you are permitted as rule of law. If you don't like the idea of that and what it entails, then be a grown arsed adult and move on.

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