I have been having debate with a friend. He believes investing only stocks. He believes property market will crash or fluctuate, and will not give the same returns in the coming years. Where would you invest your money now?
Do You Rather Invest in Stocks or in Properties Now?
chrismatt on 21/01/2022 - 17:03
Comments
Similar boat.
I'm in gold and cash with only 10% of my money in shares at the moment.
No matter how they spin it the share market is due for at least a 10% correction if not more if it becomes contagious.Crypto and NFT's are IMHO still worthless
High inflation and the inevitable rise in interest rates around August will change everyone's mindset on debt and when this happens i feel it could cause the property market to cool in a major way. 1% increase on a $700k loan is another $7,000 a year you'll need to find.
The principle of crypto is solid.
BTC and ETH etc have just been hijacked as get rich schemes.
Do you think the principle is solid? The AFR made the point today, if crypto disappeared today would it matter? I can’t see how it would.
@colin5000: have you seen this video, he did some good research on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g
my opinion is distributed ledger will get adopted, ASX has a live date of 2023 to replace the paper based CHESS system
but the thing about these new tech is you don't need a single crypto currencies to exist to make use of these technologiesso crypto currencies is something people gamble on and hope to get rich
@MrMarket: A permissioned DL is just another closed garden data silo.
It's muteable, trusted, exclusive, inefficient and costly to run.
It's everything #Bitcoin is fighting against.
@rektrading: no it is not more inefficient, it using the same blockchain protocol that underpin crypto currencies
blockchain protocol is now out there for anyone to implement it not just in the realm of bitcoin
just like TCP/IP protocol that underpin the internet, anyone one can make applications and equipment based on TCP/IP
private ledger probably end up more efficient because it get rid of the speculation nature of crypto currencies as the middle man
all the transaction business going to adopt blockchain tech at some stage and none of them going to use a single crypto currencies and that the truth of itASX big boy will be the first off the rank, when all those millions of CHESS record going digital and they not going to use a single crypto currencies
@MrMarket: Which company is using the #Bitcoin, Ethereum, Binance SC, Cardano, Solana, Terra, Polkadot, Doge, Avalanche, Cosmos, Polygon or Cronos network right now?
Any company that wants to go cross-chain have to use the native network and its coin to pay for Tx.
No coin, no Tx
@rektrading: Name any business that use it? apart from all the speculation mania like NFTs and Crypto exchange which just feed money into
the hand of the creator and provides no real benefit to anyone.look at all the artist that got con into minting NFTs, have to buy crypto to mint their NFTs only to not be able to sell it
so who is making the money? certainly not the artistand all the NFTs that got flocked for high price it all end up in some crypto related promoter so the whole chain
is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, they just feed among themselves suck in suckers who has absolutely no idea but
want to get richName any business that use it?
Bitcoin doesn't need businesses to use it. The network has grown exponentially with the help of its users since 2009.
You're changing the subject from crypto to NFT. NFT is not crypto.
Users that flip NFT deserves what they get.
ASX big boy
BTW the ASX trading volume is tiny. CEX and DEX daily trading volume rival the NYSE in 2021.
@rektrading: sure but that what I been saying it playing among themselves DEX mainly trades crypto with one another
NYSE you can buy thousands of business ownershipthat why I don't see the point of crypto currencies, there are underlying technology you can use but I don't need the coins
you can design your system with token and coins but you can also do without it.Tell me why I need bitcoin? if I have bitcoin I have to convert to fiat to use it so what the point and if I can make bitcoin payment directly
its transaction cost is outrageous and the price volatility can make small business goes bust no business will take it upWhat big business accept bitcoin as a payment apart from the Elon twitter account?
that why I don't see the point of crypto currencies,
I understand that digital assets isn't for you. That's ok.
It's just like I've no interest in investing in real estate, stonks, ETFs, metals, etc. I've no problems trading them by buying low and damping them on the next person that asks "which site is the best to get them off.". Its not personal. Just bills to pay.
Tell me why I need bitcoin?
I'm not the right person to 🍊 💊 you. Saifedean Ammous and Layah Heilpern do a better job.
The Fiat Standard: The Debt Slavery Alternative to Human Civilization https://www.amazon.com/dp/1544526474/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g…
The Bitcoin Standard: The Decentralized Alternative to Central Banking https://www.amazon.com/dp/1119473861/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g…
Undressing Bitcoin: A Revealing Guide To The World's Most Revolutionary Asset https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FS5CTXK/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g…
Take care.
and if I can make bitcoin payment directly its transaction cost is outrageous
The BTC Lightning Network fixes this. The cost is mere cents, transactions are near instant and allows for up to 1 mil transactions per second.
@colin5000: If Bitcoin disappeared would it matter? No.
The principle of cryptocurrency remains valid though
1 % increase on a $700k loan is another $7,000 a year you'll need to find.
this calculation is applicable only to "interest-only" loans. 1% increase on $700k P&I loan will be around $4,000. Still gonna sting tho :)
Easy fix.
Pass it on to the tenant.
@rektrading: Yeah like the lower interest rates were passed onto tenants right? Tenants are always paying for bad investment decisions of others and never benefit from the lucky ones. All those property capital gains and lower interest costs go into the property owners’ pockets while rents continue to rise. So of course when that good fortune cools down just pass it on so that new car or boat is still on the shopping list. Cheers for that.
Wow. I just learnt something (and I see myself as pretty astute financially). What is the maths behind repayments not increasing by a whole percentage of the loan balance?
@WhatWouldBiggieDo: very simple, it's actually in its name - P&I - when monthly repayment has 2 components - Principal and Interest. The further down you're into the loan the greater the portion of principal and vice versa
I don't think interest rates will rise 1% overnight, it might take 1-2 years to see an increase of 1%
Yeah an amortization schedule doesn't work like that, but at least you're estimating high not low ☺️
"Crypto and NFT's are IMHO still worthless"
There has been so much big talk about Crypto and NFT
And some random articles everyday about someone made themselves rich on Bitcoin and NFTs. Honestly not sure if its all superfacial
Most of them are pointing back in 2013 like 9 years ago when Bitcoin worth tiny
BTC is like putting your money on "Red" in roulette.
It can double your money, it can half your money but it won't go 100x anymore. Anyone who says it's a bubble that will burst soon is just as clueless as those who say it'll be worth a million soon.
There is no real use for it, but at the same time people will pay thousands for Pokemon cards…so why not BTC?@amrdeus: BTC is easier to hack than selling fake Pokémon cards? Not sure. But both can be stolen or lost easily enough.
@rektrading: There is a whole lot of ways to get scammed though.
The most recent one I learned about (for Eth I believe) are smart contracts that are essentially trojans that say "If I delete this, then also move my money to this account." These trojans are then sent as NFTs to random people's wallets who have money. The victims see the fake NFT, delete it then poof goes their money.I'm invested in crypto. But boy, the whole market is incredibly scammy.
@amrdeus: It's not possible to delete a token. It can be burned but not deleted.
It goes without saying users should never interact with an unknown contract.
@rektrading: Easy to say, but its an easy mistake to make. If someone sent you a link to a child pornography NFT and you weren't aware of the risks, then you would probably delete it.
If someone sent me a spam email I'd delete it.@amrdeus: But you're not deleting the token. You're interacting with it by executing a function.
It's the same as a stranger sending malware to your device. Any attempt to interact with the app will execute the malicious code.
The safest way to deal with malicious code is to identify and quarantine it.
@rektrading: See? I dabble in crypto and didn't even know that.
Like that's the problem with the market, its super toxic, complicated and ripe for scamming. That's my only point. Like, most NFTs and currencies are clearly Ponzi schemes. Sure you can say something like "Oh, well you should educate your self before blabla…"
My only point is that the market is very toxic and you can't say that you can't get robbed. Just because you can't hack the blockchain itself, doesn't mean you can't get scammed or hacked by getting logins/passwords/keys..etc.
It can double your money, it can half your money but it won't go 100x anymore
I have been around long enough to remember when people used to say this when price went to $1,000, then $10,000. There is still good upside even if not x100, although to say it isn't possible is simply impossible to say.
There is no real use for it
I'm currently earning interest on my BTC holdings, so there is at least one use for it. I have option to use as collateral to borrow against it as well rather than selling and creating a taxable event.
Even with this big 50%+ corrections which has happened at least 8 times since 2012, BTC has always come back to hit new ATHs each and everytime, and nothing suggests to me that this won't continue to occur in the future.
I'll just keep adding to my BTC holdings
@Lucille Bluth: People that have a few #Bitcoin to spare can open LN nodes and collect Tx fees.
That is just one of the use cases this network can offer.
@Lucille Bluth: As I said, I'm personally invested. I'm even bullish. So trying to convince me that there's money to be made is a bit pointless since I agree.
But in regards to your 'use cases'….well no, you're just saying the use is that you can make money. Just like a ponzi scheme. Yes you can make money off of it, but only because people like us are throwing money at it. That's not an actual use.
Besides, all I was saying is that you can get robbed!
@amrdeus: Bitcoin will be the most valuable monetary network in the world if what is about to happen becomes a reality.
It will go from being a commodity, property, legal tender and the hardest asset to the most powerful censorship-resistant network in international free trade.
This can happen by the end of 2022 or even sooner.
@rektrading: Could you please elaborate on what you think "the most valuable monetary network" would look like at the end of 2022? Like, would it be used more than AUD and USD for instance?
Just trying to find a good way of measuring what you're claiming.
@rektrading: Not much elaboration there. Like you think the US is going to go to war or something and the USD will crash and be overtaken by BTC?
@rektrading: Haha, well here's what it seems. It seems like you realise what you're thinking is most likely not going to happen and you're trying to be vague just to save your own ass. There is literally 0 reason why you would want to be secretive.
I'll come back to your comment at the end of 2022 to have a laugh. Sure the markets might go down a bit (its expected after such a crazy bull run) but for BTC to become "the most valuable monetary network" by then? You're dreaming and you know it.
Or take advantage of the savings feature on some exchanges. USDT (a stable coin) which does not fluctuate (much) gives you a 9% APY. Much more than other safe investments can give you.
Some stocks are booming and long term
Telsa nvida not gonna drop as much as you think
https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/billionaire-investor…
this american "guru" believes the bull run is short to be over in america and it could correct big time
this does mainly talk about the US stock market, but we are like the USA's little bum chum, if they cough we sneeze
Predicted 7 of the last 3 market corrections.
Take it with a grain of salt. You ask this guru and 9/10 he is mentioning a crash. So you wonder whether he is just a broken clock. That is, it'll be at least right twice a day.
When the USA sneeze, we catch a cold.
Tesla is the most overvalued stock in history. It could easily lose 90% of its market cap and still be overpriced.
Nvidia will crash when they can no longer sell GPUs to crypto miners and is going to have a lot of competition from AMD and Intel in the GPU space going forward.
mokr got no idea. I've been waiting to see Tesla tank for a while… I think with more uncertainty it should drop significantly… I can't see it dropping 90% but it certainly could.
Nvidia has got more use cases than just GPU and crypto. They've got material exposure to electric vehicles as well.
@hayne: They lost 50% of their market cap after the last crypto crash. This one will be much bigger. Plus AMD is about eclipse their performance.
Non-electric vehicles are also capable of self-driving features.
I am normally pretty bearish but historically inflation running above interest rates has been fantastic for equities
what we are really seeing right now is basically devaluation of money
one of the most sensible comments in this thread of prophets predicting stocks and real estate
I wa holding cash and thinking I was a smart cookie when covid hit and then the money printers went brrrrrrrrrr
Then brrrrrrrr some more and now they are still going brrrrrrrrrr
Cash is very risky when the govt disrespects it so badly.
yep its pretty crazy
cant go wrong with a forever increasing money supply
impact on food/livestock production might be interesting though (check fertiliser pricing)
Good point. It's likely interest rates will continue to lag inflation as raising them too much would cause all sorts of issues.
And if the market goes up 10% while you're waiting for a crash, that's just as bad as if you'd bought and it crashed 10%.
If you're in it for the long term, I don't think you should be too worried about corrections.
i bet thats what your Dad thought 18 years later.
I've kept my investments (haven't sold), but I've been saving more cash and not putting it into shares or property (I'll probably get some gold soon or buy shares in a gold mine, maybe get some silver too, otherwise I'll buy a small amount of shares before EOFY). At the moment there are bubbles everywhere, so when it does crash, it'll be a big crash.
thats me in a nut shell, spare cash is going in the offset, no additional money to share or property investments.
tis hot atm
Far too open ended and pointless a question. Depends what stocks and what properties. There are safer than average items for both as well as higher volatility ones for both.
A $2m shitty apartment on Bondi Beach is never going to crash. A massive $2m house in Liverpool very well might.
Vanguard stocks less likely to crash. Tesla might. Pharmaceuticals could go either way, lots of people made bank in the pandemic. Apple not a risk so far…
Hmmm… never is a strong word. With climate change, I am not sure a beach front apartment is never going to drop…
They're hardly sought after and being sold for their value for money offering or practicality though.
Trust me, if it ever gets to that point and multimillion $$$ beachfront properties are going under… The millionaire won't suffer, there will either be a big taxpayer subsidy provided to "buy back" their properties, or a taxpayer provided sea Wall built or something.
Never trust anyone that says "trust me".
@rektrading: You really think there won't be taxpayer subsidies paid out?
Aussies love a good government bail out, just look at the Rona, jobkeeper paid out 100s of millions of dollars to businesses that had their best year ever as far as profits go.
it'll drop through a sinkhole
2M in Bondi apt. Or 2M In Vanguard then?
Neither for me, but if you're offering, invest in Bondi for sure. Stupid not to.
Hmmm where would u park yours?
@capslock janitor: Any craphole within the M25 in London. Never losing money on it there, only goes up up and up.
i'll take the vanguard thanks, when can i expect it
inside the Apt. lol
I sold my 2/3 properties, 1 being my ppor. Made a loss on the investment as I had only held the property for 5 years and bought at the height of the market and sold at the first wave of major covid lockdowns. Seems I would have made money if I had held onto it but I didn't know how the market would turn out and was worried about affording repayments on a house that needed major repairs to get it back to rentable.
Recently started investing in shares, no idea if it's the right/wrong time but I do like that I don't have the stress of a mortgage hanging over my head.
I hear you. Gearing or lending can magnify gains but conversely can magnify losses.
Shame you can't sell off a bedroom - whereas you'll be able to sell off some, not all of your shares if you need to. Investing in a business via shares and let the managers endure the stress.
Great movie!!!
Bing??
Bing <3
after todays performance
Gold and definitely not property.Nice.
less than 3 percent??? wild…
Do You Rather Invest in Stocks or in Properties Now?
Both are way over inflated and screaming for a correction any day now.
Have to agree with this, both are at crazy valuations and IMO mania can be observed in both. That being said, the gov will never let the housing market fail so I'd have to go with property in this case, even if it leads to poor social outcomes.
The XJO is down -5.99% from ATH and has broken both the horizontal and the diagonal support after a 162D chop.
https://ibb.co/jJKY6x8Austalia is running out of money to pamp the stonk market. The real estate market will be next if the feds stop brrr.
talking about down from ATH to a crypto shill, what % is BTC off its ATH? how much is it down YTD vis a vis XJO?
It's -41% from ATH and -14.72% YTD.
XJO vs BTC
https://miro.medium.com/max/920/1*hcC8sbrrbCQk_MpPuP3qUw.jpe…
Started DCA'ing into VAS and VGS in July, price has gone down since then so I am behind but I'm in it for the long haul so let's see how it goes.
Well in a way if you're still DCA'ing you're getting more bang for your buck. VGS is down a few bucks since earlier this week so not bad. Wondering how far it'll fall though…
Yeah, I usually buy around the middle of the month and have already bought this month, but thinking of going early for February but I'll kick myself if I do buy early but it falls even further.
It's not a loss until you sell.
I'm also in VGS for long run…but still get antsy before and after each buy…
I intend to DCA but end up watching the stock prices for a few days before I buy.And to answer OP…can't afford a house, so stocks for me.
I know that but it's still hard not to be negative when I was up $1600 about a week ago now I'm down $600 haha
Add a few $1,000s to bring your entry price lower.
that people telling themselves when they bought at the top so they feel better
it definitely a loss whether you sell it or notlet say you bought something for $10, it is now $7 dollar
so if you was to buy now you save yourself $3, and that is real money in your pocket, tell me that not a real gain or loss?and then there is an over all return, the higher price you paid the lower return you get
someone buying at $7 going to have a lot better return than you buy at $10.Now there is nothing wrong with buying at the wrong time and hold on and that part of investing
but it bullshit saying it not a loss if you don't sell because for the same money you can buy more
or buy the same for less and get better returnOnly 🦎 🧠 🤔 that drawdowns are a loss.
A drawdown is an opportunity to buy the same hard assets at a cheaper price to lower the entry price.
68% of traders blow their account because they don't understand this. They buy rips and sell dips when they should BTFD and sell rips.
I would hold onto cash atm, I am worried of a stock market correction
property is too rich for my taste and unwilling to take on such a large level of debt