My Friend Spent $550 on My Credit Card

solidsnake1291 on 04/01/2022 - 10:53
Last edited 04/01/2022 - 13:12 by 1 other user

Hi All,

My credit card was used without my consent for a total value of $550. I noticed the transaction on the app and immediately reported to the bank and they deactivated my card and sent me a new one. I have raised a dispute for fraudulent payment which has not been accepted with a closure statement saying that the transaction was made by Paypass. Is there anything I can do or probably raise it with the regulatory body to broaden my chances of getting it refunded?

Update: Someone borrowed it and I know them but they are not accepting it. At the time the card was used it was with this person only and there is no way they would know what the pin number is. There were two transactions made of total value of $550

Financial

Comments

  • Settero on 04/01/2022 - 10:59
    +93

    Your post makes me think there is more to your story , the phrase " without my consent " makes me feel you have left out something major.

    Most people who's card was used fraudulently would not phrase it that way.

    If you have not made the transaction, or contributed to the loss , it should be covered under your cards fraud guarantee.

      • derk on 06/01/2022 - 21:15
        -5

        no

      • darxtorm on 08/01/2022 - 11:11
        +3

        these are the times where you delete your post

    • Quantumcat on 04/01/2022 - 11:24
      +12

      contributed to the loss

      Looks like OP did just that

      Someone borrowed it and I know them

      • Scrooge McDuck on 05/01/2022 - 14:41
        +2

        Perhaps the friend lent it to another friend.

    • AndyC1 on 04/01/2022 - 11:30
      +47

      OP post below "Someone borrowed it and I know them but they are not accepting it."

      So OP did NOT give the whole story and were aware of the card being borrowed so this NOT fraud or theft, but stupidity by agreeing to the card to be borrowed.

      • SF3 on 04/01/2022 - 12:38
        +2

        That or OP is in it with that someone… as s/he wants to make it an authorities problem.

      • markathome on 06/01/2022 - 08:23
        +7

        Is anyone else dying to know why the OP lent the "friend" their card. I'm sure I've lent a person my card too but it's been a person I know in a restaurant to buy drinks and they've stayed within my vision the whole time. I've never gone to Harvey Norman, given a friend a card and said "go nuts."

        🤔 Maybe the person was trying to buy RATs from two different queues or something?

      • SeVeN11 on 08/01/2022 - 03:56
        -1

        Alleging someone did something is not the same as them doing it. Unless you know for sure, it's not worth burning a relationship for $550 when the bank has your back.

        Just keep it simple and claim it from the bank like you have.

        • Quantumcat on 08/01/2022 - 09:17

          It was charged using PayPass, so the friend either charged the card or gave it to another person or temporarily misplaced it. The $550 is definitely on the friend and the bank is not going to help.

          • SeVeN11 on 08/01/2022 - 14:22
            -1

            @Quantumcat: Banks have an operational risk department and provision for losses like this and Banks always refund your money if its fraud/stolen/lost card unless you told them you gave it to a friend who bought something with it (which is currently alledged, so there's no proof that this happened)

      • Geekomatic on 07/01/2022 - 00:34
        +10

        People used to be more friendly & helpful than this. What a sad state we're in when people are happy to visit hardship on strangers and gloat about it… :(

      • [Deactivated] on 07/01/2022 - 19:25
        +1

        Great attitude you have there.

        • HeWhoKnows on 10/01/2022 - 21:10
          -1

          Thank you

          All you can do is to laugh at such foolish people who then try to cover up or blame others for their mistakes.

          Banks are not stupid

          They can tell when customers are pulling a porky on them

      • Sxio on 08/01/2022 - 14:46
        +1

        Wow. What is your deal man? No matter what your income is, losing $500+ is a super shit experience.

      • xlimit on 10/01/2022 - 08:03
        +1

        I agree with Amayzingone's response. OP's posted some vague scenario where there are details obviously being left out, all in order to paint him/herself as the victim.

        Stupid posts deserve stupid answers. If a person refuses to take responsibility then no one else should be expected to take it seriously.

    • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2022 - 09:37
      +15

      This is such a simple dispute. Go to the retail store that the card was used in and ask to see footage of the person who used the card.

      If they don't allow that - the police will do it all for you if you open a claim.

      Once they check the footage and confirm who used the card - you can take actions from there:

      • If you recognise the person in the footage and identify them to Police - matter will be handled by Police and Bank
      • If you don't recognise the person in the footage, the bank should process a refund for the items based on your card being illegally used by someone else

      And then they will chase the person responsible.

      • MrMarket on 06/01/2022 - 10:24
        +8

        no his card is not illegally used by some one else, he lend the card to his friend you basically given away all your protection once you do that, end of the story no banks nor anyone going to do anything about it

        • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2022 - 10:29
          -4

          Absolute bollocks. Card fraud is when someone uses your card for transactions you didn't authorise or didn't know about. There is nothing in card fraud that says "once you give your card to someone they are legally allowed to do whatever they want with your money".

          Example - Commbank:

          https://www.commbank.com.au/support/security/card-fraud.html

          It is still illegally being used. Where did you get your Law degree ? Online card games don't count.

          That's like saying "Let your friend use your car and if they take the wheels that's not illegal".

          • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2022 - 10:38
            +8

            @[Deactivated]: I remember talking to ANZ once regarding my mum's card and I said I use it sometimes. They said this was not allowed and against their terms of service or something.

            • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2022 - 10:42
              -3

              @[Deactivated]: Yeahp exactly even if she gave it to your willingly - you're still not allowed to use it and say you end up abusing it - you are liable for damages.

          • MrMarket on 06/01/2022 - 10:42
            +10

            @[Deactivated]: It's not illegal to give someone permission to use your card — but it is a breach of your card contract and there are risks
            Mr Bradley says that contract is individual to you, and one of the conditions is that you don't let other people use the card.

            He says that's one of the circumstances in which the card issuer will refuse liability for charges you didn't properly incur (with another being giving out your PIN or not keeping it secure, which he says banks get very angry about).

            "Basically, if they knew that that was what you'd done, they'd deny liability altogether," he said.

            Andy White, the chief operating officer of Australian Payments Network, had a similar warning:

            "If you give your card to someone else, you open yourself to the risk of transactions being made on your card which you didn't expect. It will be difficult for you to dispute such transactions with your bank or a merchant."

            https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-05/legality-of-using-som…

            • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2022 - 10:46

              @MrMarket: Well he's a lawyer so I guess we should take that advice for sure. Looks like Bank would deny liability which makes sense…

              I'm curious how it would actually play out in court.

              And then the magnitude of the infringement would have to have a weight on the matter. What if they spent $10000 ?

              • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2022 - 10:50
                +2

                @[Deactivated]: I agree it's fair for banks to deny liability, you took the risk so it's not their problem. It could be argued it's no one's problem except the owner but I don't think that's fair since there needs to be some level of trust in society. If my neighbour asks to borrow something for the weekend and I let him but he then doesn't return it, or returns it broken, then who's at fault? Society likes to punish the nice guy too much rather than the people who take advantage of it.

                • Butt Scratcher on 06/01/2022 - 23:59
                  +3

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  Society likes to punish the nice guy too much rather than the people who take advantage of it.

                  This mostly boils down to being a responsible adult with some common sense, presumably that's why you need to be over the age of 18 to have a CC.

                  Why should the bank intervene in this? This is no different to leaving the front door of your house opened, then trying to claim home content insurance when something gets stolen.

                  Most people are capable of some form of basic risk assessment. E.g. My mum needs to buy food, it's probably safe for me to lend my CC for her to buy it. vs a hobo who I want to buy food for, I most certainly not going to lend my CC to him.

                  If my neighbour asks to borrow something for the weekend and I let him but he then doesn't return it, or returns it broken, then who's at fault?

                  There's another term to describe the act of permanently borrowing something… stealing. Yes, there most certainly is recourse if you can prove they broke it.

                  Again, it goes back to basic risk assessment.

                  Should I lend my $200 lawn mower for the weekend to my neighbour? Probably, wouldn't mind knowing it isn't worth much vs.

                  Should I lend my $60,000 car to my neighbour for the weekend? It's insured and it will probably come back ok, but hell no

                • SeVeN11 on 08/01/2022 - 14:29
                  -3

                  @[Deactivated]: Banks have a legal department that tells them to always deny liability, but if you just say the card was lost/stolen/defrauded they will refund you the money and write it off.

                  in this scenario, transactions occurred on your card without your knowledge and you don't know how it happened due to lack of evidence of the friend actually stealing from op (which would be covered anyway, but will then become a criminal matter), that's all you need to tell them nothing more nothing less.

                  if your friend said they didn't do it, you have to assume its just a transaction fraud that occurred.

                  no point in burning a friendship for a 'hunch', it's most probably just coincidences.

              • MrMarket on 06/01/2022 - 10:51
                -2

                @[Deactivated]: I am not a lawyer but I am very well verse in financial stuff and financial contracts and term as I deal with a lot of it in my investment,

                when it comes to credit and borrowing, these term can be very strict and specifics to protect the integrity of the system, once you signed on the doted line you are bound by it and sometimes it seem unfair or unjust you are still bounced by it and banks and institution are within their legal right to exercise it

                and if it happened to bankrupt you or cause you massive financial loss that your problem so be VERY careful when it comes to finance

                you can see the carnage of the stock market margin call to see banks are within their right to liquidates your asset and bankrupt you if they have to in order to protect their capital and there is nothing you can do about it because you signed on the dot with margin lending contracts

              • Daabido on 09/01/2022 - 19:38
                +1

                @[Deactivated]: Who's taking him to court? Police won't be interested and suing another party will cost you somewhere between $2000 and $10000 a day in court (unless small claims) and then you have another court date and more costs to try to get the money when they don't pay.

        • w37hsyea on 06/01/2022 - 12:57
          +1

          That's not true Hearthstone. Please don't give advice.
          Two reminders - you haven't studied law and you are not registered with any supreme court to practice.

          • MrMarket on 06/01/2022 - 18:15
            +2

            @w37hsyea: You don't need to be a lawyer or need to practise in supreme court to understand financial terms and contracts
            nothing I give there is specific advice it general in nature and common sense stuff.

            nothing special about sign up to a mortgage and you cant meet the repayment and banks within their right to take the properties or sign up to a car lease and you cant meet the repayment they can repossess the car or sign up to a credit card and you don't use the card within the term they set out and they hold you liable for it.

            Just as you don't need to be a bankers or investment advisers to understand investment and all the in and out that goes with it

  • AJW on 04/01/2022 - 11:00
    +9

    Isn't Paypass a tap and go system - so it is an 'in-person' or 'card present' payment?
    When you say "without my consent", did someone take and use your card? Do you know where it was used?
    I guess that the bank isn't doing an instant refund because of the type of payment.

    • Settero on 04/01/2022 - 11:05
      +20

      It is and for a transaction of 550 they would need the genuine card and the pin!

      • Boioioioi on 04/01/2022 - 13:29
        +5

        I bought a TV for $750 at JB Hi Fi with Google pay on my phone, didnt need Pin or anything, surprised me!

        • AJW on 04/01/2022 - 13:30
          +4

          Someone posted below saying they also had a high $ limit using an Apple Watch - is the card limit of $200 overridden or managed by the device you use?

          • ozbargun2021 on 06/01/2022 - 18:52

            @AJW: on phone/watch - biometric authentication replaces the PIN.

            tap and go has a limit of $200 (tapping the card physically on the terminal)

        • Quantumcat on 04/01/2022 - 14:07
          +13

          If you have to sign into your phone with a pin or face id or touch id that's probably enough security

        • Drakesy on 04/01/2022 - 14:08
          +4

          When you log into your phone either with a fingerprint, pin or face ID that's deemed confirmation that it's you making the purchase with google pay.

          I know with Samsung pay it doubles up as a secondary safe guard i guess

        • DoctorCalculon on 05/01/2022 - 10:41
          +2

          Think of Google Pay and Apple Pay as another layer of wrapper on the actual physical card itself. They have their own virtual card number, and are usually protected by the biometrics of the device.

        • CalmLemons on 05/01/2022 - 15:22
          +3

          You would need to unlock your phone to do this. That is enough.

        • TimeWaster on 06/01/2022 - 10:31

          I forgot the pin to my own Amex one day and used Apple Pay for a $7500 transaction. I seriously don’t think it has a limit.

          • Kyle-K on 06/01/2022 - 17:33

            @TimeWaster: Contactless payments with a card do have a limit, contactless payments via Apple Pay or other digital wallets can go over the floor limit as they support CDCVM.

            At that point if CDCVM is supported your banks daily transaction limit will apply which in most circumstances do not apply to Visa or MasterCard transactions.

          • MrMarket on 06/01/2022 - 20:03

            @TimeWaster: Correct no limit with Apple Wallet, I use it all the times most transaction are over several thousands
            Just paid for some properties reno stuff today $4K no issues

            as long as I face ID or finger print all good to go

      • Kyle-K on 04/01/2022 - 19:02
        +11

        Apple and Google Pay both allow for a protocol that is called Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method (CDCVM) this allows payment terminals to accept biometric or device pins in place of your card pin when completing a payment above the limit.

        However the OP's post does say two transactions which I can't work out how they got to the $550 without entering a pin or completing another transaction.

        Due to COVID-19 the contactless limit before PIN is required has been increased to $200 that gets with two taps a total of $400 that could've been spent.

        Even more holes in the OP story then the cheese I ate over Christmas.

        • Ghost47 on 05/01/2022 - 10:47
          -5

          Doesn’t the first paragraph in your comment answer the question? i.e. It’s likely the “friend” who borrowed the card entered it into their Apple Wallet/Google
          Pay which can be done using just the details
          on the card and so bypassed then need for the PIN.

          • 8at8 on 05/01/2022 - 13:36
            +7

            @Ghost47: From my experience, when you first registered a card onto Apple Wallet, the bank will send you an OTP to your phone number or email, so that requires another confirmation first.

          • buckethat on 05/01/2022 - 16:10
            +4

            @Ghost47: That is incorrect.

            There's usually some 2FA required when setting up new cards for Apple Wallet, I assume the same would be correct for Google Pay.

      • Laurana on 05/01/2022 - 14:02

        The limits for PayPass got increased after Covid19 to reduce the need to input a pin. Different banks have different requirements on the limits. I’m with ING and I think mine is around $300-400 per transaction.

      • MeisterG on 06/01/2022 - 01:24
        +1

        not anymore…i paid a $1000 deposit payment on paypass (card not google pay) at Subaru and didnt need PIN. Both myself and the sales guy were genuinely shocked. edit: on an ANZ CC

        • Kyle-K on 06/01/2022 - 18:27

          Did you use another digital wallet platform like Google Pay e.g. Apple Pay? or Samsung Pay?.

  • lovesabargain77 on 04/01/2022 - 11:03
    +1

    Was it someone you knew who made the transaction?

  • rektrading on 04/01/2022 - 11:04
    +6

    My credit card was used without my consent for a total value of $550.
    the transaction was made by Paypass.

    A PayPass Tx can only be done by someone that has access to the card.

    The cardholder is responsible for the safety of the card and is liable for the Tx.

    BTW Paypass has a low limit. Which bank has a PayPass limit of $550?

    • AJW on 04/01/2022 - 11:26
      +2

      $200 limit in Aus, and a bit higher in some countries at $250, but none have a $550 limit

      • No Username on 04/01/2022 - 11:36
        +1

        I've done $980 via Pay Pass no pin required using CBA Business Card via Apple Watch.

        • AJW on 04/01/2022 - 11:39
          +1

          I don't see how unless you personally requested an increase?

          • No Username on 04/01/2022 - 11:45

            @AJW: Didn't touch any, just happened automatically. I've also noticed that you no longer have to enter your PIN when requesting a refund. Could just be the Apple Watch since it knows who's wearing the device.

        • Kyle-K on 04/01/2022 - 19:04
          +13

          No Username, Apple and Google Pay both allow for a protocol that is called Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method (CDCVM) this allows payment terminals to accept biometric or device pins in place of your card pin when completing a payment above the limit.

          • Jofzar on 05/01/2022 - 21:18

            @Kyle-K: Huh cool information! Thanks mate.

      • brendanm on 04/01/2022 - 12:36
        +1

        I've done over a grand on PayPass.

        • Lord Fart Bucket on 05/01/2022 - 16:28

          During covid, to minimise people touching buttons, limits increased.

        • Kyle-K on 05/01/2022 - 17:00

          You can do any amount over the contactless floor limit with a PIN.

          • brendanm on 05/01/2022 - 17:06

            @Kyle-K: Didn't have to enter a pin.

            • Kyle-K on 05/01/2022 - 17:23

              @brendanm: Are you sure this was with a physical contactless card and not a digital wallet? You definitely should not be able to do a grand without entering a pin in any circumstances here in Australia if you're using the physical card.

              • brendanm on 05/01/2022 - 17:34
                +1

                @Kyle-K: Google pay.

                • Kyle-K on 05/01/2022 - 17:43
                  +6

                  @brendanm: Then we have your answer on why.

                  Apple and Google Pay both allow for a protocol that is called Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method (CDCVM) this allows payment terminals to accept biometric or device pins in place of your card pin when completing a payment above the limit.

                  • brendanm on 05/01/2022 - 17:44
                    +1

                    @Kyle-K: Didn't even have to fingerprint, though did have it unlocked not long before, perhaps that's enough for them. Good on Google and apple for making my life easier 👍

                    • Kyle-K on 06/01/2022 - 18:29

                      @brendanm:

                      Didn't even have to fingerprint, though did have it unlocked not long before

                      Sadly on some android devices using Google Pay that's all that's required.

                      Good on Google and apple for making my life easier 👍

                      Actually you can thank the industry for having some industry standards Google and Apple are really just implementing these standards in their digital wallets.

      • Kyle-K on 04/01/2022 - 19:06

        $200 limit in Aus

        AJW is correct the limits been increased here in Australia temporarily because of COVID-19.

        a bit higher in some countries at $250, but none have a $550 limit

        Actually a lot of countries have no contactless floor limit.

    • trapper on 05/01/2022 - 21:18
      +1

      Visa and Mastercard will refund fraudulent PayPass transactions as long as you inform them asap when you realise the card is lost or stolen.

      Wouldn't apply anyway in this case as it seems OP actually gave his card to someone else…

  • solidsnake1291 on 04/01/2022 - 11:04
    -2

    Yes, someone has used my card in a store.

    • AndyC1 on 04/01/2022 - 11:08
      +1

      Was your card stolen or did you loan it to someone or did someone borrow it or….?

    • MS Paint on 04/01/2022 - 11:08

      Do you know them? Or
      Did you lose your card initially?

      • solidsnake1291 on 04/01/2022 - 11:10
        -5

        Someone borrowed it and I know them but they are not accepting it. At the time the card was used it was with this person only and there is no way they would know what the pin number is. There were two transactions made of total value of $550

        • rektrading on 04/01/2022 - 11:12
          +39

          Someone borrowed it and I know them but they are not accepting it.

          This is not the bank's problem.

          The person that used the card is responsible for the Tx and should pay it back.

        • Downvoter on 04/01/2022 - 11:13
          +28

          Aaaand here comes the actual story. Kudos to your financial institution.

        • MS Paint on 04/01/2022 - 11:15
          +7

          Problem solved. Next in line please.

        • AJW on 04/01/2022 - 11:15
          +7

          Then you should dispute this with the person whom you lent the card to, not the bank?

          • solidsnake1291 on 04/01/2022 - 11:16
            +3

            @AJW: do you mean I should report it to police ?

            • AJW on 04/01/2022 - 11:18
              +11

              @solidsnake1291: I am guessing that this person will deny they did it, so the police won't get involved, because it is your card and your responsibility.
              Nobody stole your card, so no police I guess?

            • Quantumcat on 04/01/2022 - 11:18

              @solidsnake1291: You can report it to the police but I doubt you'll get anywhere, as you voluntarily gave the person your card so you took the risk yourself. You need to take it up with the person. Or at least take back the thing they bought so you can get a refund, or sell it.

              It is a good idea for anyone reading this thread to turn off paypass and force yourself to always have to enter the PIN for any amount, so if someone steals or finds your card they can't do anything with it. Or don't use a card at all and just use your phone with apple or google pay (so you have to use face id / phone PIN plus have access to the phone to be able to pay).

              • DoctorCalculon on 05/01/2022 - 11:01

                @Quantumcat:

                It is a good idea for anyone reading this thread to turn off paypass

                AFAIK, this is not an option with most banking apps.

                Could you please tell us which banks support this option? I would really like to see this feature with my current banks.

                I think Revolut allows you to turn off the magnetic strip which can easily be cloned.

                • Quantumcat on 05/01/2022 - 11:18
                  +1

                  @DoctorCalculon: https://ibb.co/xs5xvKX

                  Commbank does ^

                  Before there was the app, I asked the customer service person at the front desk in the branch to set it to PIN always required. Pretty sure other banks will do this too. If not, good reason to switch.

            • DoctorCalculon on 05/01/2022 - 10:57
              +6

              @solidsnake1291:

              do you mean I should report it to police ?

              No, the police will classify the dispute as a civil matter. Unless your mysterious "friend" pried the card out of hands at knifepoint.

              Also, why on earth would you lend your credit card to anyone, and expect them to not use it?

            • greatlamp on 05/01/2022 - 18:17
              +2

              @solidsnake1291: When I worked retail, one of our sales was quarantined by a credit card dispute. The police eventually came looking for video footage and charged the customers daughter with theft.

              The credit card provider isn't going to just wear it

        • Master Bates on 04/01/2022 - 11:23
          +6

          there is no way they would know what the pin number is

          You don’t always need the pin for tap and pay.

          • Iluvfreebies on 05/01/2022 - 08:29
            -3

            @Master Bates: If the amount is $100+. You would need to input pin.

            • kerfuffle on 05/01/2022 - 08:31

              @Iluvfreebies: No you don't. Not until $200+ at the very least.

              • Iluvfreebies on 05/01/2022 - 08:34

                @kerfuffle: I always have to input pin if the amount is 100+ and also get a text message and email regarding the purchase.

                • kerfuffle on 05/01/2022 - 08:40
                  +1

                  @Iluvfreebies: It's been $200 since the pandemic started. Is yours an actual credit card, or a Debit Mastercard or Visa? Is this when you insert your card or use PayPass/Paywave?

            • Master Bates on 05/01/2022 - 09:03
              +2

              @Iluvfreebies: I have been to places where $1000 has unexpectedly gone through without the need for a pin. It might have been Apple Pay though, perhaps that is deemed more secure.

        • SF3 on 04/01/2022 - 12:36
          +9

          Someone borrowed it

          My guess is, you'll be cancelling your friend/someone and you can acquire a new one.

        • CalmLemons on 05/01/2022 - 15:24
          +2

          When someone borrows your card, it is normally for spending money on it.

          If it is anyone's problem or fault, it is purely yours unfortunately.

        • Tightbungholio2 on 05/01/2022 - 17:44
          +1

          Was it the user SolidusSnake?

        • FW190 on 05/01/2022 - 17:51
          +1

          you really need to clarify the "borrow" part of it.

          1. did you lent the card to your friend, and they had spent more money then you have agreed to? - that is a problem between you and the friend

          2. did they took your card and used it without asking you? - that is stealing/thef/fraud, report it to the police

          3. some other scenario?

        • Butt Scratcher on 05/01/2022 - 20:26
          +1

          Jesus christ, "borrowed" as in there is some form of consent. It really becomes a dispute between you and your friend.

          The bank made the right and "just" decision, they shouldn't be screwing over other people over a spat between you and your friend.

          If you insist that this is a fraud, feel free to report your friend to the police. You are in the fortunate position of knowing who this apparent fraundster is. Maybe then the bank will take your claim of fraud more seriously

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