For example a Mazda 3 and Volvo XC90 are both ANCAP 5 star rated, however would one be safer than the other? Volvo is known for its safety aspect, would it be the safer choice? What are the safest cars/models out there?
Are There 'safer' 5 Star ANCAP Rated Cars?
alex123711 on 28/12/2021 - 19:25
Comments
i think ncap ancap etc compares safety across the same class of car
ie. a 2 ton SUV that is 5 star is safer then a 1 ton subcompact that is also 5 star
as far as safety goes, most cars sold here are 'safe' - you can go above and beyond and buy an S class or Audi A8L and get that ultimate safety at a price
but a compact hatch like a Mazda 3 is really all you can really ask for given they are already 1.4 ton or so and as long as you dont need more capability why spend $60k on an Audi A3 etc.
It’s not as simple as that. A smaller car will handle better and ultimately could be safer by missing said crash. The 2t SUV is far more likely to run out of braking grip or roll over due to higher centre of gravity.
I dont think this has been true for a long time.
The reality is that there are many sport saloons that are 1.75 to 2 ton.
I used to argue that the old SS V8 ute and XR6/8 handled terrible becuase they were 2 ton.
Then I drove one. Most of the upper luxury type sedans are 1,75 ton.
I do lament that sub 1.5 ton cars are largely dead unless you want a hatch.
I would argue that most SUVs like anything from a RAV4 to an Audi Q3 etc. wont be driven hard enough for handling to matter. They have enough electronics in them that they handle no worse than an avg. fwd medium sedan.
SUVs also have a higher centre of gravity so are more likely to roll over in an accident.
If the mazda 3 gets cleaned up by a 4wd you'll be in a bad way no matter what
if the xc90 gets cleaned up by a 4wd you'll be in less of a bad way. Simple physics and momentum.More metal = more protection/energy absorption.
Agreed. The ANCAP stars are by weight class, like boxing. A heavyweight makes short work of a light weight.
More metal = more protection/energy absorption.
More to burn as well.
I recall a bad crash whereas a 4X4 body actually melted to the other vehicle. Bulk is deceiving.
Another point, more metal does not quite equal to energy abortion, as with a sophisticated air bag system.
During WWII Russian tanks were known by their solid built to the point they used (when out of ammunition) to crash into their enemies … however … the humans inside suffer horrendously with their internal organs being shaken out of place.
Not a scratch to be seen. Internal hemorrhages everywhere.Give me cotton balls rather than a steel cage …
i dont beleive that at all
here's a thought experiment…
do you want your kids in the back seat of any subcompact like a Ford Fiesta where you have like a foot of steel between your kids back seat and the impact?
or would you like your kids to be in the back seat of an SUV or a 4x4 ute where you have lots of metal between your kids and the back of the car and point of impact?
I dont really even feel safe when I was driving a company Corolla. I'm six foot tall and I felt my head was too close to the A pillar etc.
If you can afford it buy at least a compact SUV like a RAV4 Xtrail CRV Escape Tuscon etc.
I personally see no utlitity (so to speak) in buying a small car or even a medium sedan.
If I could afford a Porsche Macan or something larger like that I would.
If we all buy bigger cars to be ‘safer’ wouldn’t it cancel out if we are just in accidents with other bigger cars?
Having lots of metal between you and another car isn’t inherently safer either, it comes down to design and how the car performs in an accident. For example modern smaller cars are safer than older cars from the 70s that might have be larger and have more metal.
One benefit of electric cars is the whole front can be crumple zone instead of pushing the engine through to the drivers legs. In this case there is less metal.
@Freitag: I dont disagree with what you say. But if I can afford a $40k RAV4 then that's what I'll buy as the best decision for me. I can only make decisions for me.
Also if I'm driving I'd rather be in a 2022 RAV4 or Hilux then any other 2022 compact or subcompact car really.
I use the RAV4, Hilux as an example.
I personally dont have any allegience to toyota but really, if you dont need to be a subcompact then why?
any other 2022 compact or subcompact car really.
Problem here is that your are categorizing "smaller" anything not as big as your marks, your standards
That is confusing.
A RAV4 has always been a "small 4X4". Since inception.
When the Landcruiser was the normal 4X4 size, the RAV was the cute small option.
Also a RAV compared to a HiLux truck is not a good move. Otherwise a lorry is a lot safer than a HiLux too.A bigger solid metal cage (unless it crumbles as needed) will not muffle a crash.
Internal organs need cushy air bags to slow down the sudden stop.
Astronauts returning to earth have parachutes to "smooth" the bump instead of an even harder capsule.
Cotton balls not steel.
Volvo is known for its safety aspect
In the 80's
yep. this is some bullshit old wives tale.
Volvo are in this state they are now because they sold on safety but all cars became safe so then what does Volvo sell on now?
F'n nothing. That's why they are Chinese owned selling Chinese made cars to fools.
The one with the greater mass will have a better chance to survive a head to head collision with a smaller one.
But without proper crumple zones and interior construction the occupants will still get rekt
Not 100% correct. Modern cars have crumple zones that absorbs the impact.
Also modern cars use high tensile steel.
Just mass alone is not the deciding factor.
Ok.
A modern 2021 car with a 3,000 kg mass will have a better chance to survive a head to head collision against a modern 2021 car with a 1,200 kg mass.
You are right, but it's also a very contrived situation though, to have two cars run head-on at each other. It's how most people perceive crash safety, but head-on collisions are a very small minority of all collisions.
chance to survive a head to head collision
Yes the car will survive but human occupants might not.
Cushy Air bags will protect (in an accident) more than a solid steel cage.
So what, do we all just buy heavier and heavier cars?
Is that what Americans are up to with their oversized utes / ‘trucks’? Turns out they are actually more concerned with safety than we are…@Freitag: I don't worry about things that are out of my control. Choosing a car with the right safety features is something I can control.
Law of Physics matter.
F = ma.
The a in F = ma matters a lot as well.
A good airbag system and crumble zone will decrease the absolute value of a (deceleration/acceleration) dramatically, hence decreasing the force experienced by occupants.
ANCAP is (profanity) stupid because the goalposts move all the time, rather than moving the goalposts AND the rating, so good luck working it out if you're comparing two vehicles that were tested in different ANCAP rating period.
ANCAP score listings
Explanation of how rating system has changed over the years
Agreed
5 stars in 2020 is vastly different to 5 stars in 2010
Best to check what year the car was tested in
It’s not really stupid, - it’s well known that rating is for the time period it’s being sold. It helps manufacturers introduce new safety features and technology over time. You can still look up how vehicle of a particular year performs against the rating criteria at the time.
Only well known if you're actively interested in cars, I'd argue. How many people shopping for cars would know that the standards have been upgraded twice in the last 4 years? Take one of Australia's best selling vehicles, the Ford Ranger. Rated 5 stars in 2015 under the 2011-2017 testing criteria. Hasn't been tested since.
Add a bullbar (which most do), and your ANCAP result goes out the window
Yeah I definitely didn't know this until I wanted to buy a new (used) wagon in 2017 and started delving into my options. I'd doubt it would be well known. I doubt people would know or even think about the variance within 5 star cars either.
Come up with a better way of doing it that allows for 'safety inflation'. Genuine request. I'd actually be interested in your idea.
With each significant change of standards, move the scale up - 6, 7, 8 stars etc.
I think Volvos in Australia are are Chinese company called Geely.
Possibly different to European ones?
2021 model years - XC90 is built in Sweden, S60 is built in USA, XC40 and XC60 in China. Incoming V60 Cross Country should be either Swedish or Belgian
I personally believe there are a lot more important factors than mere ANCAP rating to actual safety of drivers, and passengers in the car. If you are not properly experienced in driving then invest in a driving instructor, not higher ANCAP rating.
ANCAP is BS, I'd personally focus a lot more on factors like price, stereo tech, Cruise control, fuel economy, night vision dashcam, paint colors, tinting etc. like more useful stuff than ANCAP rating on deciding what car to buy. (If you are buying for a learner who is trying to drive illegally without any practice that is totally different scenario). Nor is this place like full of Chinese/Indian type driving behavior (where they dont really follow much rules on road, like lane driving, stopping on red light etc.). Also BTW if you modify cars like Bull-bars etc. it may actually affect your safety (aka make you as driver less safer by increasing possibility of like airbag not getting deployed in circumstances where it would have been life saver)
Any normal driver should be responsible driver enough to avoid most crashes, and not be worrying about he/she is going to smash into objects today with his/her car so better get a higher ANCAP rating car. (Disclaimer: Yes I know 1 driver cannot control other reckless drivers on roads(like drunk ones seen on RBT), in that case airbags, and other safety features may truly the only thing able to survive driver/passengers). Nevertheless car safety has improved a lot from years ago.
Just drive normally without thinking of ANCAP stuff dudeFor example a Mazda 3 and Volvo XC90 are both ANCAP 5 star rated, however would one be safer than the other? Volvo is known for its safety aspect, would it be the safer choice? What are the safest cars/models out there?
It depends on a variety of different factors including the driver, conditions, and the type of danger / risks.
My issue with the ANCAP ratings is that (i) it's absolutely impossible to distill something as complex as vehicle safety down to a star rating, (ii) it focuses mostly on safety after the collision without enough of a focus on avoiding the collision, and (iii) it focuses strongly on head-on collisions which are not very representative of the types of collisions that happen on the road.
For example, a car that has better visibility or handles better may help you avoid a collision in the first place. On top of that, larger cars will tend to protect you more in a head-on collision, but are more susceptible to rolling due to their higher centre of gravity. In other words, it's complex and the answer is that "it depends".
FWIW, it might be worth keeping in perspective that, broadly speaking, if a certain collision is fatal in car X, it's also very likely to be fatal in car Y. In other words, what you're ultimately choosing between are fine margins, you're not going to get significantly better "survivability" in a certain car over another car. If you're spending that much time looking into the safety of car X vs. car Y, you're better off spending that time taking a defensive driving course or something.
I say this to people all the time, but so many people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on safety packages with things like lane departure assist, but are not willing to spend a few hundred dollars and a weekend doing a defensive driving course that will have far, far more benefit than phony safety packages.
Take those school pickup/drop off truck off the road will make it a safer place.
Aside from ncap, licensing perhaps should be to the size of the vehicle too.
Why don't we all drive 20 ton light tanks?
Why don't we all drive 20 ton light tanks?
They already do , but the dealerships call them SUVs and 4WDs and allow them to be driven on the public road.
if you have the money you can
there's nothing to stop you from buying a RAM1500 or Ford F150
sure you need $100k+ but theyre around for horsey lovers and giant airstreams
I think crash tests scores are when they crash against a similar weighed car.
So then … The heaviest car will win. So yes. Get a 5 star tank.
That's not how crash tests are done. Cars are usually impacted against solid, immovable objects bolted to the floor, not "other cars of similar weight"
And they test against a standard sized block bolted to the floor (or gantry or whatever) so the results are repeatable and comparable.
BEVs are currently safest passenger cars on roads, due to different construction. Among those, Teslas are the safest due to best in market active and passive passenger protection.
Safest has a lot of definitions.
For example other BEVs like Renault Zoes and Nissan Leafs have fewer crashes than similar IC powered cars, But Teslas, which we are told have all sorts of self driving features to make them safer, not only have higher repair costs than other similar IC vehicles, they actually have more crashes. The latter is attributed to the fact that they are high performance, and having that capability under your right foot encourages drivers to show off that they've got it. And get into trouble more often as a result. With the result that what you gain by its fuel and maintenance being cheaper, you pay out in one of the highest insurance rates.
So safety is not just a matter of how well the vehicle protects you if you crash, but whether the vehicle contributes to your getting into a crash. And Teslas appear to fail dismally in regard to the latter at the same time that they perform well in the former because of their construction.
not only have higher repair costs than other similar IC vehicles,
Nope, they don't. Not sure how you came to this opinion.
they actually have more crashes The latter is attributed to the fact that they are high performance,
Hahah. By this logic the safest vehicles are combine harvesters and tractors, hard to crash with max speed under 30 km/h.
Performance only matters if you're not driving safely (i.e. within legal speed limits and adjusting for road conditions).but whether the vehicle contributes to your getting into a crash
A vehicle contributes into a crash if it's faulty.
Everything else is human error (speed, conditions, how its used).And Teslas appear to fail dismally in regard to the latter
Again, I fail to understand how you formed such opinions and what they're based off, albeit entertaining…
Probably the one with more driver assist tech. Ancap is about crash results. Avoiding crashes add another level to the equation.
Actually ANCAP is based significantly on driver assist tech, it can have fantastic crash results and will get zero stars if it doesn't have the assist tech.
Pretty much all Tesla models have around the highest crash safety rating
Thanks Burnertoasty. Oh wait….
You wouldn't happen to own one, would you?
Amongst the highest on ANCAP (which is out of date from 2019, due to Tesla software updates for autonomy)
USA tests are more current:
https://electrek.co/2021/12/21/tesla-model-y-achieves-highes…
https://electrek.co/2021/01/12/tesla-model-y-aces-crash-test…
Also Teslas and all BEVs are built differently, which provides level of structural safety that no ICE car can replicate, with any technology …
You need to consider the year each vehicle was ANCAP tested, as the tests change each year. Some vehicles get a good rate on an early test and then get progressively worse each following year. The manufacturer then "chooses" a good year to tag on their vehicle. So a 4 star from 2020 may be significantly better than a 5 from any year prior.
A lot of it comes down to the driver and conditions..