This was posted 3 years 2 months 4 days ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

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Low-Earth Orbit Satellite Internet (up to 370Mbps/51.6Mbps) $139/Month + $809 Hardware Delivered @ Starlink (Excludes NT)

3780
Low-Earth Orbit Satellite Internet (up to 370Mbps/51.6Mbps) $139/Month + $809 Hardware Delivered @ Starlink (Excludes NT)
Go to Deal
[Deactivated] on 27/11/2021 - 21:45 starlink.com (8998 clicks)
Last edited 05/12/2021 - 19:16 by 3 other users

I have checked address
[NSW][VIC][SA][WA][TAS][QLD][ACT] I've tried all these addresses and only [NT] Northern Territory was not covered so this is basically Australia Wide.
QLD and WA only seems to cover some areas right now.

Elon Musk’s space venture - Starlink is now available for orders now!

Starlink is a satellite internet service providing high-speed, low latency broadband internet with speeds from 50Mb/s to 400Mb/s and latency from 20ms to 40ms. Early users are reporting speeds of 300Mbps+.

I've been checking every month and its now out of preorder for 99% of Australian addresses

You will need to pay $809 for hardware ($709 satellite dish +$100 shipping) and a $139/month service fee.

This looks like an attractive option for those on NBN satellite. Also can be worthwhile to replace a slower NBN connection due to the exorbitant prices for a NBN FTTP upgrade.

Starlink is now out of beta, and max speeds have doubled from 150mbps to 250mbps+ for most reviewers I saw on Youtube
"As we launch more satellites, install more ground stations and improve our networking software, data speed, latency and uptime will improve dramatically."

As a point of reference, the best speeds I have seen on Youtube achieved on Starlink in Australia are
Download: 370 Mbps
Upload: 51.6 Mbps
Ping: 20 ms

Referral Links

Referral: random (109)

The referrer and referee receives bonus credit for a month of standard service, 30 days after the referee activates and keeps their Starlink. Referrals will only issue credits to Standard Plan (Residential) and Mobile Regional (Roam) subscriptions. Kits purchased from a retailer or reseller are not eligible for the referral program. No credit will be given even if a referral link was used during activation.

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closed Comments

  • kml22 on 27/11/2021 - 21:49
    +20

    Wow, Ping is 20ms, this is on par or faster than the overrated mobile 5G connection I have, 5G promised single-digit ping, which is all marketing BS.

    Do we know if the hardware is the newer rectangular or square shape satellite dish?

    • SuttoL on 27/11/2021 - 22:02
      +16

      Aus is still the old round dishes.

      Ping in AUS isn't typically 20, it depends on location - I average 36.74ms, which is still very reasonable :)

      • bob19 on 28/11/2021 - 02:30
        +12

        I get 6 to 9 Ping with Superloop NBN

      • AlienC on 28/11/2021 - 08:04
        +1

        wait so how much will ping be from say australia to europe or even north america.. can we game on this or will the ping still be like 200-300ms for aussies to everywhere else in the world besides asia which is usually a hackerfest anyways

        • sane on 28/11/2021 - 08:37
          +2

          At the moment it will still be carp because its still going through Aussies wonderful infrastructure. However, if/when they start using the intrasatellite laser links in earnest, you could potentially see pings fall significantly (though they might make you pay more).

          • AlienC on 28/11/2021 - 08:39

            @sane: OK I see cool so this might be great in the future for low ping activities like gaming but for now it's just a good alternative or even option for remote or rural areas or places still with no other options for internet.. Nice!

            Cheers thanks for the response.

          • kiwiinsyd on 28/11/2021 - 16:25
            +7

            @sane: still be carp? sounds fishy

        • mardat on 28/11/2021 - 08:38
          +13

          Still 200-300ms, that's just a fact of life - the earth is ~40,000km around, and the speed of light is ~300,000km/s, so practically the minimum ping that could ever be achieved would be ~133ms. The only real reason to assume this could reduce ping is because the signal might be able to travel a more direct route, but I doubt it would make a significant difference.

          • AlienC on 28/11/2021 - 08:42

            @mardat: Well I guess let's just wait and see.. I guess worst case scenario is we just have to use our current technology but if it does help lower pings and is stable enough that's great for everybody.

            I saw someone said musk wants his autonomous self driving fleet of trucks to run on this.. Hmm I don't know how good that will be when the signal drops in bad weather or other circumstances but this is interesting to see.

          • sane on 28/11/2021 - 09:24
            +1

            @mardat: Err, I think you'll find you only need to go half way around for the maximum ping - 67ms

            • mardat on 28/11/2021 - 09:31
              +6

              @sane: Actually ping is the round-trip time wiki link

            • donkeydoc on 28/11/2021 - 09:35

              @sane: might be more depending on satellite distances, but say you were to play on a server between 2 points, the ping would be half that too.

              singapore servers might be 30-50ms for australia and european players.

          • Ganralf on 28/11/2021 - 16:55

            @mardat: Another cool thing to keep in mind is that the speed of light in fibre is about 31% slower than in a vacuum. Pings could actually improve!

        • 1st-Amendment on 28/11/2021 - 09:19

          can we game on this or will the ping still be like 200-300ms for aussies to everywhere else in the world

          The speed of light is constant. What do they teach you in school these days?

          • diamondd on 28/11/2021 - 09:24

            @1st-Amendment: redefining the metre in terms of the speed of light certainly made sure of that.

          • Malik Nasser on 28/11/2021 - 11:15
            +5

            @1st-Amendment: You really shouldn't criticise people, especially when what you say is not correct.
            Is the speed of light constant? So the medium through which light propagates does not impact its speed?
            You might want to compare the speed of light in a vacuum vs speed of light in air vs speed of light in water.

          • umphy on 28/11/2021 - 12:07
            +3

            @1st-Amendment: Technically speaking, we don't really know that the speed of light is a constant, only that its roundtrip speed is constant.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTn6Ewhb27k

          • trapper on 28/11/2021 - 22:37
            +1

            @1st-Amendment:

            The speed of light is constant.

            In a vacuum. In other materials light travels slower.

          • UltimateAI on 21/12/2021 - 17:10

            @1st-Amendment: Well that is embarrassing for you;
            a) Speed of light is only known to be constant in a vacuum, it's actually slower when passing through matter (ie: Fibre Optic)
            b) Undersea cables are not direct, and due to various active components add a ton of latency
            c) Due to the high-volume of satellites that can talk with each other, traffic will have a more direct path than traditional satellites , closer to line of sight and not routed via other countries such as NZ, Singapore
            d) Due to the limited bandwidth of the undersea cables they impose Quality of Service which is brutal resulting in additional latency
            e) Due to the Five Eyes agreements, all the undersea cables servicing AU are prone to Spying and interception (more active gear)
            f) Latency is mis-understood, variable latency is far worse for gaming

            In summary this tech does have the potential to reduce latency accessing overseas services, especially if you are not closely connected to an undersea link. ie: WA, TAS, SA,NT, QLD, western\northern NSW and many others.

            So this won't replace undersea cables, but provides one hell of an alternative, especially those who are not covered by existing services including satellite.
            Like this completely makes a joke of NBN Satellite, and wish I had these upload speeds on my NBN!!

            • 1st-Amendment on 21/12/2021 - 20:06
              -1

              @UltimateAI:

              Well that is embarrassing for you;

              Ah Hubris, the sweetest trait of all…

              a) Speed of light is only known to be constant in a vacuum,

              yeah so what I said… so embarrassing…

              b) Undersea cables are not direct

              Neither are satellites…

              c) Due to the high-volume of satellites that can talk with each other

              Each hop adds latency, remember that vacuum/matter statement you made? Did you forget it already?

              d) Due to the limited bandwidth of the undersea cables

              Bandwidth != Latency…

              e) Due to the Five Eyes agreements,

              lol, grasping at straws here, but you think Starlink a US company, isn't bound by US laws?

              f) Latency is mis-understood,

              It sure is. Some people often confuse latency with bandwidth for example lol…

              In the context of global online gaming ie the question I responded to, no amount of satellite magic can solve that problem due to the speed of light and distance.

              Like this completely makes a joke of NBN Satellite

              Oh we agree there. This exact argument was made when the NBN was proposed, an expensive white elephant that would be made obsolete by private sector innovation before it's finished. But some people thought they knew better…

        • lostn on 28/11/2021 - 15:14

          or will the ping still be like 200-300ms for aussies to everywhere else in the world

          There's not a whole lot you can do about the speed of light. It isn't fast enough for low latency gaming with the other side of the world.

          • AlienC on 28/11/2021 - 19:49

            @lostn: Hmm true. Just wishful thinking on my part hoping that maybe with less relays or route stops it might lower the travel time or something but I guess yeah distance is distance and the speed of light is constant.

            Was just being wishful Heh.

            • trapper on 29/11/2021 - 12:55

              @AlienC: Light travels 31% slower in fiber than in a vacuum, so the potential is there for a much improved ping time.

              • AlienC on 29/11/2021 - 13:48

                @trapper: Oh nice so my 200ms ping could become 140ms.

      • cristobaljamesy on 03/12/2021 - 16:14

        3ms with Exetel WA

    • sacs2k1 on 27/11/2021 - 22:16
      +7

      Overrated 5G? I'm with Optus 5G home broadband for over 16 months now and working exclusively from home during that time. Ping is between 15-21ms and speeds are a minimum 500 down/50 up any time of the day or night (most of the time it's 600mbps+ down). And the setup is extremely simple with zero cost.

      Convince me why should I pay almost double the cost each month plus a $800+ set up fee for lower speed? Totally understand 5G availability is very location-dependent - but it works very well if you are in the coverage area.

      • trentgibbo on 27/11/2021 - 22:20
        +1

        This

        • Pudina Chutney on 27/11/2021 - 22:31
          +4

          That.

        • GrueHunter on 27/11/2021 - 22:34
          +25

          If only there was some sort of + button you could have pressed to signal your agreement

      • Twix on 27/11/2021 - 22:20
        +75

        Convince me why should I pay almost double the cost each month plus a $800+ set up fee for lower speed? Totally understand 5G availability is very location-dependent

        You answered your own question. This isn't for you. It's a game changer for those on nbn SkyMuster satellite and fixed wireless who get less than 75/20Mbps and those who can't get access to the nbn even though it's declared fully built.

      • Praeto on 27/11/2021 - 22:27
        +10

        He specifically says he's comparing it to the connnection he has.. which likely isn't as good as yours. No one would try to convince you to pay more for less, but your experience isn't necessarily the same one everyone else gets. Personally Im on 25mb max FTTN where I am, I have a 4g backup that barely gets any faster. This is exactly the kind of option I need.

      • dosada on 27/11/2021 - 22:32
        +5

        Yes, very overrated 5G. As soon as there are enough people the speeds will drop.

        Not everyone has the luxury to live in a 5G area. I for example live in an opticomm area and have 1000/50 MBit with a ping of 2 to 4 and always over 750 mbits down

      • Savas on 27/11/2021 - 22:37
        +4

        it's intended for regional areas…. when Starlink launched it wasn't even originally available for people in metropolitan areas..

          • Savas on 27/11/2021 - 23:23
            +2

            @sacs2k1: Targeted deal is for selected customers e.g. invited by email or received a unique coupon code.

            • Sven Viking on 28/11/2021 - 07:20
              +1

              @Savas: And even if that wasn’t the case it’s presumably a past situation that no longer applies.

      • MITM on 27/11/2021 - 23:08
        +3

        The other

      • packeteer on 28/11/2021 - 08:59

        my Optus 5g in inner west Sydney is crap by comparison. the worst part is the 2mb upload speed

      • Bobsyur Uncle on 28/11/2021 - 12:40
        +1

        You won't get Covid with LEO sattelites.

      • dearears on 28/11/2021 - 23:04

        Same with me.

      • COVID-19 on 29/11/2021 - 07:50
        +1

        I agree with your above BUT, it's probably not aimed at you as you get decent speed.

        Me on the other hand who has a shitty NBN fixed wireless connection with an average download speed of 2mps and upload of 0.5mps. (no, I'm not joking).

        All this for $69.90 per month. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the consistent dropouts.

        The only thing holding me back with this is the cost.

      • vbhaskar on 01/12/2021 - 09:58

        data allowance is also a deal breaker for me, 5g is nice but doesn't tick all the boxes when you want to use it has a replacement for home broadband.

      • fvalemus on 05/12/2021 - 12:14

        It is Tesla. If it is not Tesla, it is not Tesla.

      • SuttoL on 27/11/2021 - 22:41
        +8

        The satellites are ~550km up, so up and back, and then ground stations are located around AU. E.g. One in Koonwarra, VIC

      • SuttoL on 27/11/2021 - 22:42
        +6

        It's also not a typical parabolic satellite dish, it's a phased array setup

        • M00Cow on 27/11/2021 - 22:46
          -8

          Oh aren't the satellites stationary? Interesting.

          • SuttoL on 27/11/2021 - 22:50
            +17

            @M00Cow: No - they're low earth orbit, and you're basically jumping between satellites.

            they currently have over 1600 satellites live, more in orbit waiting to hit position and are targetting significantly more than that.

            The receiver / local dish is super neat - mechanical motors to roughly point it's field of view, and then phased array for actual control

            I'm not normally an Elon fanboy (he's a bit of a dick), but genuinely think Starlink is great - it's mass market, everyday useable satellite internet. Imagine buying regional property, and not having to worry about if yoiu can get decent internet, let alone reception at all.

            Plop a dishy on your roof (you can self install, I ran it on our back lawn for the first few weeks) - and bam, internet.

            • beatsntoons on 27/11/2021 - 23:29
              +28

              @SuttoL: as an astrophotographer, I hate these satellites, even though I love what they're doing for people. Hell, one day I might even have to sign up to the service if we leave Sydney.
              They are a pest, killing images, and that's for an amateur like me.
              For scientists, they now not only have to fight light pollution, but also these machines flying through skies we thought were once safe (dark sites)

              • MikeKulls on 27/11/2021 - 23:37

                @beatsntoons: Image processing will likely solve it

              • ggbhai on 27/11/2021 - 23:57
                +12

                @beatsntoons: On behalf of the non-astrophotography people, I truely apologize. I had never ever ever ever.. never thought that this would be a downside to this kind of technology.

              • AMelbournian on 28/11/2021 - 05:09
                +1

                @beatsntoons: An amamateur here as well. Just use sigma clipping and you'll be fine.

              • cfuse on 28/11/2021 - 09:35
                +16

                @beatsntoons: I love the fact that we are at the point where amateurs can complain about their space photos being screwed up by other people's satellites. Life just keeps getting better.

          • ColonialBoy on 28/11/2021 - 00:29
            +1

            @M00Cow: Geosynchronous orbit is 35,000 km (too far) and these are 500km.

      • furythree on 30/11/2021 - 14:29

        the haters are worse than the fanboys cause they dont even check facts

    • aoeueoa on 27/11/2021 - 22:59
      +1

      I just checked my last 10 5G speed tests and majority are low teens.

    • Rob-4x4 on 28/11/2021 - 07:42
      +3

      And current 5G coverage is even worse than the poor 4G coverage in rural and remote areas..

      Also current 5G cell sizes are smaller than 4G making it a even less suitable technology for rural and regional Australia.. though the lower frequency tech Telstra is looking to roll out as 3G shuts down may help … (Even though the 3G shutdown is going to remove all mobile coverage from lots of regional Australian.. roll on the starlink enabled mobile phones…)

      So for many people using crappy NBN Microwave and Satellite, 5G is not an option anyway…

      Certainly friends of mine using NBN Microwave have been hanging out to get StarLink …

      • UltimateAI on 21/12/2021 - 17:20

        Lol, don't forget the 3g areas!! and vast areas with no coverage!!
        4g is still for highly populated areas

    • cloudy on 28/11/2021 - 09:18

      Wow, Ping is 20ms, this is on par or faster than the overrated mobile 5G connection

      OP said “ the best speeds I have seen”.

      If you are comparing the “best” with one par 5G you will likely be disappointed with the steady state product right? Maybe it’s too logical

    • HeWhoKnows on 28/11/2021 - 10:35

      Now that would be nice for the astronauts and people on space stations !

      Down hear on earth is a last ditch effort to get connected where there is no internet.

      But even NBN offers satellite connection for much less!

      https://www.skymesh.net.au/nbn-services/sky-muster

      • SuttoL on 28/11/2021 - 10:36
        +1

        Skymuster has much lower speed, and 10x the latency fwiw

        Even worse for people in the US, where a lot of the sat providers (Viasat / Hughesnet), are even slower.

        • HeWhoKnows on 28/11/2021 - 10:47
          -7

          Maybe for you but over 500 x 5 star reviews and a 5 star rating from whistleout says is GREAT for everyone using it!

          • ABA on 28/11/2021 - 12:42
            +3

            @HeWhoKnows: I am managing 5 of our regional QLD sites who are using it and almost every week I am getting complaints from them. I can tell you from experience Skymuster doesn't work. It's very temperamental and relies on perfect weather conditions for it to work.

            • LlamaLlamaLamp on 28/11/2021 - 14:12

              @ABA: What is the annual turnover of that company? Sounds like you shouldn't be using SkyMuster in the first place.

    • johnwinds on 28/11/2021 - 14:41

      I have Starlink in Melbourne if anyone has any questions.

  • InsertANameHere on 27/11/2021 - 21:50
    +116

    Only took launching satellites from a us company to speed up Australian internet speeds

    • [Deactivated] on 27/11/2021 - 21:52
      +69

      Thanks NBN!

      • WhyAmICommenting on 27/11/2021 - 22:13
        +102

        Thanks Malcolm! Ya dikhead

        • MasterScythe on 27/11/2021 - 22:18
          +41

          "that" election was the ONLY one I ever really had a solid opinion on.
          Anyone who cared to talk politics I just said one thing;
          "We're only going to do this once in our lifetime, I dont care if you dont like OTHER policies, they can be fixed later, please, vote correctly".
          I was even the rude prick at the polls who would point that out to randoms having loud convos on their way in (never have before, probably never will again) but still….

          There was only 1 of me though, and too many people who didn't realise how important the Internet was :*(

            • WhyAmICommenting on 27/11/2021 - 22:24
              +63

              @trentgibbo: I don’t think fibre is high maintenance, unless someone puts a backhoe through it. Copper (FTTN) is the maintenance pain.

                • CommuterPolluter on 27/11/2021 - 22:33
                  -6

                  @trentgibbo: Hey, stop giving valid counter-points!

                • Ryballs on 28/11/2021 - 01:26
                  +20

                  @trentgibbo: Fibre actually has fairly low ongoing cost, especially compared to 5G. The company I work for provides a lot of fibre to businesses and we rarely have to fix it. Yes the initial outlay of 5G is much less then fibre, but the operational cost of maintaining a 5G tower every few hundred metres for every suburb is multiple times higher. Also fibre latency is very low, whereas 5G latency hasn't really improved much yet from 4G.

            • myfeetarehappy on 27/11/2021 - 23:11
              +4

              @trentgibbo: Agree the original goal to fibre every regional premises rather than just the major population centres was madness and wireless broadband would inevitable render it redundant. We are all paying more than we should be for broadband as a direct result.

              • trentgibbo on 28/11/2021 - 07:54
                -1

                @Hairy Nosed Wombat: Didn't realise how many avid labour voters were in ozbargain. Far be it from us to point out some flaws with their policy.

            • BROKENKEYBOARD on 28/11/2021 - 00:04
              +39

              @trentgibbo:

              Both sides have some fault.

              That's like saying there's 2 cars, one is missing a wheel, the other is missing the engine but you leave out these tidbits and say they both have faults as if the faults were equal.

              Labour for thinking a nationwide fibre rollout was ever feasible with our size

              It was never meant to be nationwide, it was expected to be just above 90%. Also you're misrepresenting the size, you could probably service the majority of the population by covering less than 1% of the land mass.

              Wireless tech was always going to outpace it

              Wireless only works with low uptake, it wouldn't be feasible to service every premise with wireless using current technology. There would be too much congestion at peak hour.

              especially given the insane maintenance ce for fibre to premises.

              Funny because the maintenance costs of FTTP is expected to be by far the cheapest compared to all the other fixed technology types.

                • BROKENKEYBOARD on 28/11/2021 - 08:23
                  +7

                  @trentgibbo:

                  At least get your facts right

                  You should apply this to yourself :)

                  The initial proposal would see fibre to the node (FTTN) technology for 98%

                  Why are you trying to prove a point, using a proposal that they didn't even go through with? Are you trying to say FTTN was actually Labor's fault?

                  • trentgibbo on 28/11/2021 - 09:31
                    -3

                    @BROKENKEYBOARD: My first statement was that they initially thought it was feasible. You then said "It was never meant to be nationwide" - my initial statement was correct and you were wrong. It's as simple as that.

                    • BROKENKEYBOARD on 28/11/2021 - 11:39
                      +1

                      @trentgibbo:

                      My first statement was that they initially thought it was feasible

                      1. It's just a proposal, it never went through so who cares. What actually happened is far more important.
                      2. Their initial proposal doesn't back up what you said because their proposal was about FTTN while your first statement that I quoted mentions fibre.

                      You then said "It was never meant to be nationwide"

                      I was talking in the context of FTTP, because that's what you mentioned.

                      • trentgibbo on 28/11/2021 - 15:15
                        -1

                        @BROKENKEYBOARD:

                        1. It's just a proposal, it never went through so who cares. What actually happened is far more important.
                          Well firstly thats just semantics on feasible vs proposal. If you propose something you obviously think its feasible. Saying otherwise is just silly.

                        Secondly, if you actually looked at the link I sent you would see they also did feasibility and included costs in their original proposal -
                        https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.…

                        I was talking in the context of FTTP, because that's what you mentioned.

                        I never mentioned FTTP until a later comment when I said my FTTP has been broken multiple times (most likely just due to poor installation). I initially just said "nationwide fibre rollout" in reference, correctly, to the labour policy I then linked for you to ignore.

                        • BROKENKEYBOARD on 28/11/2021 - 15:35
                          +1

                          @trentgibbo:

                          Secondly, if you actually looked at the link I sent

                          I only saw a wikipedia link

                          you would see they also did feasibility and included costs in their original proposal

                          Again the proposal did not go through so why is it even relevant at all? If you truly wanted to look at the logic behind it all you have to consider that Labor originally wanted FTTN in 2007, LNP wanted it in 2013. Pretty big difference.

                          I initially just said "nationwide fibre rollout" in reference, correctly, to the labour policy I then linked for you to ignore.

                          When you only say fibre people will always assume you mean FTTP. If you call FTTN fibre then you may as well call satellite fibre too since fibre is used in satellite infrastructure. The link also clearly labels it as "fibre to the node" not just "fibre".

              • Hairy Nosed Wombat on 28/11/2021 - 19:08
                -2

                @BROKENKEYBOARD: FTTP is not cheaper at all.
                The NBN model is to roll out fibre and the Tax Payer pays for it. And are the most efficient at it.
                4G/5G/Elon installs the infrastructure at their cost and the Tax Payer charges them for using the spectrum. If their product doesn't deliver you buy elsewhere. That puts pressure on the suppliers to innovate. If their product becomes redundant the Tax Payer doesn't where the cost.

          • WhyAmICommenting on 27/11/2021 - 22:22
            +1

            @MasterScythe: Yeah, COVID and WFH really hurried things up. It’s a real shame how it’s worked out.

          • 1st-Amendment on 28/11/2021 - 09:30
            -4

            @MasterScythe:

            There was only 1 of me though, and too many people who didn't realise how important the Internet was

            Either that, or a lot of people realise that it's not the job of the government take someone else's money to provide you with such things. Should the government also make your lunch, and change the oil on your car?

            • AlexF on 28/11/2021 - 10:33
              +4

              @1st-Amendment:

              Should the government also make your …?

              For some essential services, yes, because profit motive benefits some far more than others. NBN in 21th Century is the Postmaster-General of 20th Century.

              • 1st-Amendment on 29/11/2021 - 10:45
                -1

                @AlexF:

                For some essential services, yes, because profit motive benefits some far more than others

                Nope. The difference is that one the government's legitimate role is provide 'public goods', not commodities. This is a not just a phrase that you get to make up what you feel is good, it is an actual economic definition based on a couple of different qualifiers, one of which is 'Non-rivalrous'. eg there is no practical scenario in which dozens of different companies all compete to build roads to your house. ie therefore roads are non-rivalrous, so that sort of thing falls under government responsibility.

                Compare that to an Internet service which is rivalrous. ie Prior to NBN we had Telstra, Optus, Voda, Vocus, TPG, etc all providing those services. Now we have Google Fibre, Starlink etc as well. Just because you didn't like what the market offers doesn't mean the taxpayer should come and provide for you.

            • MasterScythe on 28/11/2021 - 12:37

              @1st-Amendment: You've tried to compare national infrastructure to personal consumables.
              If you make your similes more aligned:

              Yes, I think they should provide upkeep on public transport.

              And yes, I think they should provide clean water and the ability to access some form of essential nutrients.

              If you dont think access to efficient communication is a 'right' in these modern times; that is why/where we wont convince each other, so, thats fine.

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