International Travel - Non Refund of Thai Airways Business Class

LKarori on 11/10/2021 - 13:56
Last edited 11/10/2021 - 14:05 by 1 other user

International Travel Refund - or rather Lack of!

Hi all, appreciate any insight or guidance on our issue with Thai Airways Non Refund for an International flight.

In November 2019 we purchased a business class tickets on Thai Airways to fly to London from Sydney via Bangkok. The tickets were purchased with full settlement ($11,800) on the November 2019 and the purpose was to visit our Grandchildren in London. The reason why we chose Business class is that we are elderly and my wife has restriction in mobility - which on a 24-hour flight would be extremely uncomfortable.

With the onset of COVID it started to look unlikely that we would be travelling, so I made the decision to cancel in July 8th 2020. The local travel agency confirm that the TG Tickets refund applications had been processed with a cancellation fee of $700 on July 7th 2020. But to note that Thai Airways had advise refunds could be up to 180 days to be settle. Subsequently despite numerous written requests to the Sydney travel agency- Nov / Dec 2020, January 2021, February 2021, March 2021, July 2021 and Now Finally again in August 2021. The travel agency response - they have not heard from Thai Airways and that we should just wait until December as the airlines should be flying by then.

We are pensioners and for us a $11,800 is a lot money to lose and feel like we are being totally fob off with no readdress. We did follow all the protocols i.e., paid in full, paid cancellation fee, waited the prescribe time – and still no refund.

I would appreciate any suggestions from fellow member as I believe we are being unfairly penalized.

Thank you

Travel

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Comments

  • 87percent on 11/10/2021 - 14:01
    +8

    Member since 2013, and this is your first post - the ultimate lurker!

    i have no advice, but good luck!

  • notdealbot on 11/10/2021 - 14:05
    +1

    I got refund for my flights after more than a year of cancellation from two different airlines, so it may take sometime for you too. Airlines industry has been hit hard and refund process is taking ages.

    • netjock on 11/10/2021 - 14:10
      +6

      refund process is taking ages

      Refund process is easy. The holding process takes ages. Airlines or travel agencies seem to want to hold your money like they are entitled to it for some reason unknown to everyone else. There is a reason why your customers aren't your shareholders. Go to your shareholders for more money so you can refund everyone. It isn't like airlines / travel agencies pay part of their profits to their customers as dividends.

    • Karori on 12/10/2021 - 11:53

      Thanks notyou, I will keep waiting but I am starting to question if there will be a refund as its fast approaching 2 years since I paid the cancellation fee. Thanks for your time.

  • blueyez on 11/10/2021 - 14:10
    +1

    I purchased a ticket to Europe via Flight Centre, once I told them the airline I booked with was offering a full refund they got onto it - took about 3 months.

    Definitely chat with the airline directly before bugging your travel agent to ensure they will refund your ticket for you. Airline will probably refer you back to your agent but it's best to check with them the conditions of your ticket.

    Good luck!

    • netjock on 11/10/2021 - 14:12

      Flight centre was one of the good ones. Lot of the smaller agencies have pocketed customer money and got job keeper. CheckMyFares is one of them who still has my money (a few hundred) 12 months after the airline gave full refunds because they were grounded. I know the airline could cough up because they are owned by the CCP which as plenty of money.

      • lubos on 11/10/2021 - 15:17

        Tell me about horror stories… I've cancelled my flight purchased through Mytrip.com, they even sent me confirmation email the flight has been cancelled and refund will arrive in due course.

        2 months later, 24 hours before the cancelled flight I've received email from airliner to do check-in. Nothing cancelled at all.

        Not purchasing flights through travel agencies or 3rd-party websites anymore. Lesson learned.

        • netjock on 11/10/2021 - 15:52

          Was the flight still on or was it actually cancelled and airline just sent you check in email for a phantom flight?

          • lubos on 11/10/2021 - 15:59

            @netjock: No. It wasn't cancelled and didn't receive refund. Virgin has offered travel credit in the end.

            This means Mytrip.com has still received their commission.

            • netjock on 11/10/2021 - 16:00

              @lubos: My flights were actually cancelled by the airline. So travel agent shouldn't be keeping the cash. I wouldn't put it past business people to try to make some money out of a bad situation. 99% of business people be the first to race down to the scene of a fire with over priced fire extinguishers.

    • Karori on 12/10/2021 - 12:01

      Thanks blueyez , unfortunately the travel agency was a small agency surviving on job keeper during COVID. In future I would be a lot more cautious but still I will try and get the refund.

  • RiseAndRuin on 11/10/2021 - 14:17
    +4

    Hard to say if it's the travel agency or the airline, but Thai Airways has been going through a lot of financial troubles including bankruptcy since last year and is now trying to sell part of their fleet and assets, so there's a long list of creditors.

  • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2021 - 14:21
    +3

    They are the "agent" acting as a party between you and the airlines. You deal with the agency not the airlines. If the agent cannot issue you a refund then you need to sue them. The agency needs to sort out issues of refund with the airlines.

    Anyhow you have already waited 3 months, so another 3 months to go. I would most definitely sue them on Day 181.

    • Ocker on 11/10/2021 - 16:19
      +1

      Not so - suggest a read of the agent's T&C's will clarify the refund position fully

      • Karori on 12/10/2021 - 12:20

        Thanks Ocker, you are correct as the the ticket is issued under instructions and on behalf of the airline and the refund criteria is part of the appendix where there is a list of applicable fees.

  • Downvoter on 11/10/2021 - 14:25
    -5

    Should’ve just gone for extra legroom. Good way to piss away thousands of dollars on business.

    • raptormesh on 11/10/2021 - 16:30
      +2

      It's not just legroom. Overall space, lay-flat, better and more attentive service, privacy, comfort. etc etc etc.

    • Ughhh on 11/10/2021 - 17:09
      +3

      Id say it's a one of these things you gotta do before you die. Treat yourself, especially for such a long flight, if you can afford it. Its nice not feeling a peasant lol, that's an experience itself.

  • dasher86 on 11/10/2021 - 14:33

    If the prescribed time is up it's time to issue a letter of demand.

  • Drakesy on 11/10/2021 - 14:35
    +2

    $700 cancellation fee!??
    oof that's rough.
    Pretty sure Flight centre was taken to court for doing something similar. It has to be considered a reasonable cost, not sure where a reasonable cost would constitute $700 to request refunds for tickets from an airline.
    If you purchased them on a credit card you might be able to chase it up through that for travel insurance coverage.

    https://www.choice.com.au/travel/on-holidays/advice/articles…

    • Umicro on 11/10/2021 - 17:00

      voluntary cancellation - can be charge by the airline - if you chose to cancel the ticket penalties apply.
      need to see the flight rules but 11k for 2 tickets is on the lower end of business. So it could be non-refundable and the agent is waiting on a waiver to clear.

  • JimB on 11/10/2021 - 14:40
    +2

    I booked tickets directly with Thai Airways on behalf of my parents.. Thai airways stopped flying and ask us if we wanted a credit or refund.

    I requested a refund 20 months ago.

    Given that Thai Airways is/way Bankrupt, I'd doubt I'd see money unfortunately. Best I aim to hope for is a credit.

    I suggest that you call Thai Airways to see if the money was refunded.

    $12k is a huge chunk of money, hope you get it back or at least be able to use it as a credit in future.

    So you paid cash upfront to initiate an refund process?

    Covid has decimated several industries and unfortunately sometimes you can't get blood from a stone.

    • Karori on 12/10/2021 - 12:24

      Thanks Jim I guess all I can say is good luck and by the way I didn't pay a cancellation fee the agency - as per the the T& C' deducted the amount from the possible refund.

  • Bourb on 11/10/2021 - 15:06
    +1

    Because of the Thai Airways bankruptcy issue I wasn't offered a refund when our return flight Bangkok to Chiang Mai was cancelled in May 2020, only given a Travel Voucher that is good until December 2022.
    I'm not too fussed as the amount is less than $500, but for the amount of $11,800 I would definitely be kicking up a fuss!
    Is bypassing the TA and dealing direct with Thai Airways Head Office an option?

  • NotAnAudiophile on 11/10/2021 - 15:18
    +1

    Its a shame what happened to Thai Airways. They were always a favourite of mine, great food in the air, good service and entertainment. While their hub in BKK wasn't the best, they did try.

    • Mokr on 11/10/2021 - 16:28

      a day stop over at bangkok was nice for the trip to europe

    • SlavOz on 21/10/2021 - 12:39

      Yep, I was devastated to hear about their serious financial problems. I considered still booking with them but all online reviews have been spammed with 1-star reviews slamming them for refusing to process a refund (or simply having no customer support to request it in the first place). I don't want that to happen to me.

      Plus, flying with an airline on the brink of bankruptcy is never a smart idea. I can only imagine the low staff morale or cost-cutting measures they'd be facing, which isn't something I can look past when flying.

      • NotAnAudiophile on 21/10/2021 - 17:49

        Thats for sure. Other than Emirates/Qatar and Singapore Air, I've always enjoyed my trips with Thai, even got their A380 to Germany once.

  • itx on 11/10/2021 - 15:22
    +1

    Did you pay with a credit card, or via the MasterCard or Visa networks using a debit card? If you did, call your bank and submit a "refund not received" chargeback request in relation to the merchant. Attach any evidence you have that says the refund has already been approved by them + they've exceeded the amount of time promised to provide the refund. You shouldn't wait much longer to do this as there are time limits to this process.

    • treekangagaroo on 11/10/2021 - 15:45

      Can you still do a charge back after 2 years ? I guess you need to do that with in a reasonable time like 3 months right ?

      • itx on 11/10/2021 - 17:06
        +1

        Ah fair point! There are some very detailed rules here and it's probably best for the OP to seek advice from the bank directly. The timeframe is often from the date of transaction but not always - in the case of "Credit Not Received", it looks like the timeframe is 120 days and the clock starts counting down around the time of cancellation (possibly later, but admittedly this probably still won't help the OP).

        Mastercard's rules are available at https://www.mastercard.com.au/content/dam/mccom/global/docum… but it's quite the read at ~800 pages! Pg 384 deals with "Credit Not Received".

        I also have a vague memory that there are slightly different rules in place due to the pandemic but can't remember what they are.

      • Howdydoo on 11/10/2021 - 20:26
        +1

        I successfully just got a chargeback credited to my account for a hotel booking they could not honour due to covid travel bans, paid for in Nov 2019 for a booking in July 2020. Took me a lot of effort and a long time, but just got it back today ($2.5k worth) and I am absolutely wrapped. This was even though I closed my credit card over a year ago.

        Good luck.

      • Orgazmo on 12/10/2021 - 07:13
        +1

        @treekangaroo
        Usually around 3 months with the bank and 2 years via AFCA.

    • Umicro on 11/10/2021 - 17:01

      Chargeback rules for travel industry are different - and you can submit paperwork to show that you are waiting on the airline or BSP - doesn't mean you always get your money.

      • itx on 11/10/2021 - 17:17

        Yes agreed, and it can put travel agents in a difficult spot if the chargeback is successful but the agent really hasn't received any money back from the airline.

        Success also seems to depend on:
        * how the agent responds in the second presentment
        * the cardholder's bank - some seem to be more willing to attempt a chargeback on behalf of the cardholder than others.

        That said, if I was out by $12K I'd definitely want to try any possible avenue!

        • Umicro on 11/10/2021 - 21:44
          +1

          Yes, but if you put the TA into administration - your not gonna get anything.

          • itx on 12/10/2021 - 09:41
            +1

            @Umicro: Chargebacks don't work like that - my understanding is there's a pecking order here. If the merchant is insolvent, liability for the chargeback passes onto the merchant's payment processor so the cardholder still gets the money back. That's why when STA and Bestjet went into administration and then liquidation, the administrators/liquidators recommended that customers go to their banks if they paid with a credit card (of course, it also helps them shift a liability off their books/reduces the recovery burden if the customer has found recourse elsewhere).

            • Umicro on 12/10/2021 - 09:56

              @itx: Creating a charge back creates a cashflow issue, funds are held from the processing merchant as a investigation starts. So if the TA doesn't have the funds, and is waiting for the funds to come back to them, the TA now has to give the processor 11k to continue to process sales.

              If the TA has little to no business and you, then action 11k chargeback - the business may go into negative cash flow. You may not be able to do any more transaction until you clear the chargeback hold - this varies from merchant to merchant, but it puts the business into a tough position that customers don't understand.

              Getting your money back due to insolvency takes much longer - as you have to wait for an administrator to finish their audits and disperse what's left.

              Larger companies can absorb this by taking out loans - most of the best agents are local and small - and they put their houses up as collateral.

              You pack this issue on by 100% of your business wanting chargebacks - you may end up homeless.

              The chargeback rules changed halfway through the first wave - as agents just went bust within 1 week. Banks saw that they were going to hold the bag on all these losses and changed their minds.

              I know of an instance that Singapore Air took 6 months to agree to a refund, and another 2 months to process. That airfare was 36K - at a time when cash flow is negative (refunds and commission paid back to the client) - you would just throw in the towel.

              I know that if I'm going to end up on the street - because someone wanted their cash faster - your incentive to help that person kinda disappears - mind you, no agent handles just one client.

              • itx on 12/10/2021 - 11:20

                @Umicro: Yep I completely get that, and have every sympathy for the agent, but let's not conflate the agent's problems with the rights of the customer. The customer has (1) contractual rights with the agent and airline, and (2) rights as a cardholder through their card network. If option #1 is taking a long time (in this case, over a year) to recover nearly ~$12K, you as a customer would probably want to exercise your rights under option #2, even if it annoys the merchant if you do.

                Emotions aside, under option #2, the problem of who has money is not relevant for the customer, as the customer will get the money back from the payment network if their chargeback claim is successful. If the merchant happens to become insolvent, a successful chargeback will still result in the customer getting the money back (and it won't be any slower than if the merchant was solvent, because the chargeback is provided by the network first - it'll be the payment processor who'll have a hard time chasing it back down from an administrator/liquidator).

                Whether option #2 is successful or not depends on how quickly you put in the chargeback claim and the kind of documentation you have to support what you're saying. Of course, if it's not successful, you'll have to go back to option #1 plus have to deal with a very grumpy merchant, as the merchant would've very likely incurred network costs for the chargeback claim.

                Again, I'm very sympathetic to agents (especially smaller ones) who've done everything they can but are just caught between a rock and a hard place, but my posts above are purely to help the OP understand what options they might have to recover their loss. You'll see from a couple of other posts here in this thread that chargebacks remain an effective option for the customer.

                • Umicro on 12/10/2021 - 11:44

                  @itx: Its true that OP has the chargeback options - but just trying to convey that its not always the best option - as this option has different rules not due to covid - especially in Australia.

                  Depending on the T&C they signed the contractual rights lay solely with the Airline - and agents act only as an agent.

                  If you exercise option #2 and it is successful then great.

                  But if you do take option 2 and it is not successful the agent has the ability to reclaim that cost of the network charge back as a part of the processing of the refund - an work had to be done to process this.

                  There's lots of fees that are attached to the ticket that can't be reclaimed as part of a voluntary cancellation.

                  Voluntary cancellation is a decision that OP made - the airline did not cancel the flight. So claiming payment for no service is incorrect. The airline has agreed to a refund but are dragging their feet. Putting in a charge back to claim no service for payment - that the TA will fight - and then cost the TA - may cost OP more funds.

                  I agree that if the Airline cancels the flight - then 100% you should fight this - like STA who held on to refunds. and Jetstar who change there mind on if they issue credits or refunds.

                  • itx on 12/10/2021 - 13:50
                    +1

                    @Umicro:

                    Depending on the T&C they signed the contractual rights lay solely with the Airline - and agents act only as an agent.

                    And that's what's so attractive about a chargeback - it's all about the cardholder and the merchant, not who's a party to the contract which does gets very complex in the travel space.

                    But if you do take option 2 and it is not successful the agent has the ability to reclaim that cost of the network charge back as a part of the processing of the refund - an work had to be done to process this.

                    That's a little questionable - it comes down to what's in the T&Cs agreed between the customer and the agent so this may/may not be true.

                    Voluntary cancellation is a decision that OP made - the airline did not cancel the flight. So claiming payment for no service is incorrect. The airline has agreed to a refund but are dragging their feet. Putting in a charge back to claim no service for payment - that the TA will fight - and then cost the TA - may cost OP more funds.

                    Ah so to be clear, I'm not recommending the OP put in a chargeback request due to "services not rendered" as that's not appropriate; the chargeback should be using "Credit Not Received" (if the OP has the evidence). The evidence you need to satisfy the two are not the same. The chargeback should also be for the amount promised in the refund, not the purchase price.

    • Karori on 12/10/2021 - 12:31

      Thanks itx, I will check out the credit card route?

  • dogboy on 11/10/2021 - 15:40

    Is there an ombudsman for this?

      • UrMumsOnlyFan on 13/10/2021 - 10:06

        The ACA is only for customers of the big four Australian airlines as quoted and has no ability to help with other airlines such as Thai.

        The ACA can potentially facilitate a resolution from a participating airline (and I've used them once), but is most definitely not an ombudsman. It is an industry-funded body to provide an appearance of self-regulation, in order to avoid actual regulation.

        The ACA will forward your complaint to the right person within the relevant airline and ensure you receive a response within a reasonable time (usually within 20 working days).

        The ACA is funded by the participating airlines.The ACA does not have independent power to make decisions that affect the participating airline’s response to your complaint. However, the airlines are bound by their commitment to respond within the required timeframe to all complaints referred to them by the ACA.

  • Stewardo on 11/10/2021 - 18:04

    Thai is selling the A380s, 747s, 777s and A340 planes the head office and even the crockery and cutlery off the planes. Hopefully you can get something out of them.

  • Orgazmo on 12/10/2021 - 07:11
    +1

    Try an AFCA complaint. You normally have up to 2 years after the transaction.

  • bootman99 on 12/10/2021 - 08:51
    +1

    We received a refund in Feb 2021through our travel agent for 2 Thai Airlines business class tickets to Italy that were paid for in November 2019. I suggest you contact Thai Airlines and check if a refund has been sent to your travel agent. There is a Facebook group called Travel Industry Issues - the need for change for Australians that has assisted hundred of travelers to obtain refunds.

  • TilacVIP on 12/10/2021 - 09:50

    Myself, and a couple of others purchased tickets with various airline, one of us with Thai Airways.

    Agency and dealing directly got us nowhere [I was going through iFly.net], then took it up with our credit card issuer [Citibank] & all of us since have received a refund, even the one ticket that was with Thai.

  • OzHunterNSW on 12/10/2021 - 11:22
    +1

    I received a message from Thai Airways informing that a "major" breach had occurred in regard to everyone's personal information — I was so angry with the CRAPPY airline, I wrote a scathing email, and requested all my Membership details be expunged, immediately.

    They are bleeding money, I don't see them surviving, in their current form.

    Good luck, but I don't think you will get much back.

    You should have had insurance for that amount of money paid…. did you?

  • orangehead911 on 12/10/2021 - 13:14
    +1

    You might not get a refund but they have to give you a credit for the amount.

  • Karori on 12/10/2021 - 13:38

    Thanks orangehead911, I will try the credit card insurance and see if there is any joy.

  • scozbargain on 22/10/2021 - 10:56

    log a request with NSW Fair Trading asking for advice:

    https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/help-centre/online-tools/…

    Your dispute is with the travel agent who sold you the ticket, not the airline.

    If you paid by credit card, ask the credit card provider to reverse the transaction.

  • Karori on 23/10/2021 - 13:00

    Thanks, scozbargain and others who have been very constructive and helpful in giving advice. I have approached my travel insurance who, before they would comprehensively consider my case requested that I again approach Thai airways as there trading situation has changed. Further, I have sent out (emailed) a refund request to Thai Airways Bangkok, Reservations Bangkok, Reservations Thai Sydney, Thai Customer Service Sydney and Bookings/Reservations Sydney and did get a response that in effect said that Thai Airways has restructured and will be processing outstanding refunds but at this stage there is no commitment as to when this will happen.
    I should add that as for going to the Booking Agent that sold the ticket on behalf of Thai Airways, there claim to date is that they have not been able to contact Thai Airway. Whilst getting a response from Thai Airways Sydney is positive news, I will allow one month to see if anything happens! In meantime I will contact NSW Fair trade for advice. Again thanks to all ozbargainers for your comments and advice.

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