I Work Less than 10 Hours Per Week and Get Paid for 40 - Am I Crossing a Line Here?

Ltheengineer on 09/10/2021 - 21:04
Last edited 09/10/2021 - 21:12 by 1 other user

Sooooo. I work as a civil engineer (hydrologist) and due to covid we got working from home since mid 2020 and still occasionally do. Put shit ton of hours in the past two years automating most of my work to the point I only need to touch up the report and do some checks. That means I’m only working about 10-25% of the time and still getting lots done (to a point the boss man questioned if I was burning myself out). And being a member of the r/antiwork, I don’t have much guilt booking in 40 hrs a week (overtime sometimes) while only working a day. I just wanted some validation from strangers to continue on doing what I do.

All good to go??

Poll Options

  • 808
    Yes
  • 317
    Hell No
Education & Work

Comments

  • Bafranz on 09/10/2021 - 21:05
    +63

    Build a bridge and get over it!

    • TheOtherLeft on 10/10/2021 - 10:56
      +62

      he's a civil engineer…..so he can.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 10/10/2021 - 16:34
        +12

        But a hydrologist so perhaps more likely to kayak under it.

        • Jackson on 10/10/2021 - 21:12
          +2

          Or lay a pipe, and then lay a cable to float down it

    • dufflover on 11/10/2021 - 11:54
      +1

      You mean build a bridge and live under it as trolls do?

  • Orico on 09/10/2021 - 21:09
    +61

    Welcome to being an engineering manager. You're ready mate!

    Just move into management man.

    Most engineering managers sit on their arses counting their dollars.

    • AlienC on 12/10/2021 - 00:11
      +3

      Can confirm a few of them frequent the TAB and lotteries.

  • bloom on 09/10/2021 - 21:09
    +116

    Humble brag

    • MrThing on 10/10/2021 - 01:35
      +13

      Oz"Linkedin"Bargain now

  • onetwothreefour on 09/10/2021 - 21:15
    +36

    You are my hero.

  • bitesized on 09/10/2021 - 21:16
    +75

    You've spent a ton of work to get here so just sit back and enjoy the fruit of your labours.

  • PissLUR on 09/10/2021 - 21:17
    +2

    good job mate

  • SF3 on 09/10/2021 - 21:18
    +24

    Member Since
    26 min ago

    Troll posts are getting more fancy.

    SF3 on 09/10/2021 - 21:18 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
  • bobbified on 09/10/2021 - 21:33
    +22

    I don’t have much guilt booking in 40 hrs a week (overtime sometimes) while only working a day.

    So tell us what you're here for again? lol

    • nobro25 on 10/10/2021 - 13:33
      +6

      It's called bragging. Deal with it. :)

      • bobbified on 10/10/2021 - 13:39
        +3

        I'm trying to my best to deal with it…. haha

        Actually, I'm trying to understand the logic behind creating an account and bragging on an anonymous forum!

  • extract on 09/10/2021 - 21:34
    +50

    Looks like you're a member of r/humblebrag too.

  • rektrading on 09/10/2021 - 22:42
    +8

    Put shit ton of hours in the past two years automating most of my work to the point I only need to touch up the report and do some checks.

    You should definitely patent this.

    There is big money in using bots to reduce a 40 hr/w down to a 10 hr/w. Businesses can cut the cost of their overhead by hiring 1 worker to do the same amount of work as 4 workers.

    • hasher22 on 10/10/2021 - 02:22
      +27

      Anything created in work company time, the company owns. Anything from software, code, graphics, processes, hardware etc…. This clause is usually stated in contracts and (from memory, I can be wrong), there is a workplace law about it as well.

      The OP could state they created this out of work time, thus proof would be needed. As by default, if there's no proof, the company can and will state its been created in company time as it's related to his job.

      • sarahlump on 11/10/2021 - 08:39
        +7

        dont tell them.

      • abb on 11/10/2021 - 12:47
        +1

        A lot of contracts even state that anything work-related you create "on your own time" belongs to the company.

        I dunno how enforceable it is, but it's common to see.

        • hasher22 on 11/10/2021 - 13:03

          I had this clause too in one of my graphic design jobs and a clause stating if I design something on company property in my own time or lunch or outside my normal work hours is considered the companys' asset.

          I did a little bit of research and it's pretty much a gray area where the laws are vague. Pretty much a company can state it but it's not legally binding, so if they dismiss me after multiple warnings because, for example, I refused to let them use an asset that I made on my lunch break in the breakout area, I may have a good chance of unfair dismissal but I would need proof that it was my lunch break. (cameras, clock out / clock in system, witnesses etc).

          • derrida derider on 11/10/2021 - 15:29
            +1

            @hasher22: That clause sounds like a real good way to ensure people don't go the extra mile and do unpaid overtime for the company. Legalities aside (and it is ldubious - eg who gets to decide what's "work related"?) having a blanket clause like that does not seem like a smart move by the company to me.

            • hasher22 on 11/10/2021 - 22:07

              @derrida derider: And I did just that - I didn't design anything related to work or outside my normal hours.

              It's such a controlling, employee-owning, micro-management clause. When I read it, I was baffled and couldn't be bothered researching the legalities of it. I just didn't design anything for the company in my 'work hours' or design anything related to my projects or work.

              But when I got another job, their contract didn't have that clause but it did have a clause where, whatever I designed when I worked for them, it's theirs. Which is perfectly fine and legal.

          • Chong on 12/10/2021 - 10:41

            @hasher22: Far easier to avoid it totally, by using your own machine outside of work hours and outside of the office (so not even using their wifi).

            Your employer cannot stop you doing similar work for clients who have no relation to employer, grey area if it is an ex client of your workplace.

            • hasher22 on 12/10/2021 - 21:40

              @Chong: That is true, there's also dodgy clauses where they say the employee can't work for another company (I get a competitor) but if its a different field or job.

              I've had a newbie that was honest and said he was starting his own hobby business from home, he was a perfect employee in my eyes. He was amazing to work with. At his 5 month mark, approx 1 month after he said he's starting his own hobby business at home just to earn some extra mullah, he was dismissed under "not following managements orders". He was upset when he called me to vent and now he knows not to share ANYTHING at work, whether its your life, 2nd stream of income etc…..

              I seriously hate work politics….

              • Chong on 13/10/2021 - 05:59

                @hasher22: Ahh being dobbed in is rubbish, general you only should share with your direct manager if required. For example back when i was leading a team, some of the guys in my team told me so that I knew i shouldn't rely on them to do paid OT over the weekend. But yes generally don't share things widely, you never know who would stab you in the back for the most irrational excuses.

  • theHMASfriendship on 09/10/2021 - 23:54
    +1

    Yes, thank you for your service.

  • AustriaBargain on 10/10/2021 - 00:24
    +33

    If you're available 40 hours a week, then you work 40 hours a week. If they can call you to chat or expect you to respond to emails, expected to be in your home near your computer, then you're working. If you weren't watching cartoons in your underwear at home during those 40 hours, you'd be at work looking at Buzzfeed on your computer or whatever while your automation runs. I don't know if you're crossing a line by not telling your employer that you've automated your work, I'd say that's a grey area.

    • hasher22 on 10/10/2021 - 02:19
      +64

      It is a grey area and I think it depends on each situation. The OP has found a way to reduce his work while still getting the job done, while most companies applaud such employees finding faster, better processes, the company will also give more work to the OP and most likely without a pay rise too. Most contracts state if an employee creates anything (software, design, hardware etc…) in company time, it's legally theirs not the creator.

      If was the OP, I would keep my mouth shut. And I am confident that the business will make him work outside the automated process they created without a payrise if they tell the employer about the automated process.

      The reason why I am on the OPs side is that I have been in their shoes with similar reasons, twice actually.

      1. I found a better process for my job which cut my workload approx 30%. I was so proud that I told my boss, my boss gave me more work because I was deemed efficient and can handle the extra workload. That was my mistake for telling my boss and we all know bosses don't like when their employees have "nothing to do" or "free time".
      2. I finished a project 3 weeks early and I was in a team, I presented it to the team and they approved it. I had nothing to do apart from if anything goes wrong with my project, they will contact me. Well, days went by and further approvals, they didn't need me. They decided to cut me from the team and not pay me the 2.5 weeks. Which is fine, but I should have not finished the project so early as that extra 2.5weeks pay would have been good. I should have taken my time and presented it the allocated day.
      • KSMLJ on 10/10/2021 - 10:06
        +1

        So if the project went over 3 weeks, say 4 to 5 weeks, would they have paid you those extra weeks?

        If not, the the job was project-based, not time-based, and should have paid the same whether it took one day or 6 weeks.

      • Lastchancetosee on 10/10/2021 - 10:31
        +31

        Have found the same thing. The more efficiently I worked, the more work I would be given. I now keep my efficiencies to myself.

        • takemymoney on 10/10/2021 - 20:32
          +2

          Look out for yourself - keep your efficiency to you. as a freebie, also keep your opinion about what others are doing to yourself…

          It is sad but with the amount of micro-managers out there you can't trust your manager will underdtand the benefit of leaving you with free time to think on the next automation process….

        • derrida derider on 11/10/2021 - 15:33
          +4

          When I was a teenage my father - who had grown up on a small farm - gave me sage advice. He said "son, if you ever live on a farm make sure you never learn to milk the cow". Because, of course, if you did you'd be the one to have to get up at 5am every day …

          I'm sure you can see how the lesson applies.

  • ozwog05 on 10/10/2021 - 00:57
    +15

    Consider it this way. If anyone else was placed in your role to do the same amount of tasks/duties, how long would it take them? If the answer is likely 40+ hrs, you've justified your salary.

    • afah0447 on 10/10/2021 - 10:49
      -7

      That's then assuming OP would then use the remaining 30hrs for a productive purpose for the employer.

      • hobo123 on 10/10/2021 - 14:51
        +14

        Nah, if he uses the 30 hrs for more productive purposes then he should be paid more accordingly.

      • ProlapsedHeinous on 10/10/2021 - 17:58
        +9

        doesn't matter what they use the other 30 hours for, if they had to replace him and the new person took 40 hours, then as far as i'm concerned, he has earned that extra time.

  • MrThing on 10/10/2021 - 01:34
    +11

    Its not your fault you are efficient.

    If you satisfy your contract and your bosses requirements then book in the full time equivalent.

    if they wah, delete all your automation and do it the hard way … and continue to book in the full time equivalent

  • hasher22 on 10/10/2021 - 02:08

    You have found a way to automate your work and now you're in maintenance mode. I would do the same thing and just continue working up to 25% of the time. Your work paid off and now you're in your reward phase and rest phase.

    A lot of people save time in their job, could be from minute to hours to days. It's a person's job to be efficient and if a person lets say needed 10 hours to complete a job but did it in 5 hours because they're efficient, then take that 5 hours to rest and get paid. I can tell you, most companies will find a way to make you work more to work for money on time.

    Also, I agree, humble brag much?

  • [Deactivated] on 10/10/2021 - 02:25
    +13

    not crossing a line. at the end of the day, everyone is out for themselves in this world, so you have to look out for yourself and if you can do 40 hours of work in 10 hours, well done, do not risk screwing it up.

    if you're on call / available for 40 hours a week, then you're still working as someone else already said, so nothing to feel guilty about. do not tell your boss, they don't need to know and will probably just give you more work.

  • Pelicannn on 10/10/2021 - 03:03
    -7

    Maybe share your secret with the boss and they will offer you a managerial position on more money for less work haha. Imagine how excited they would be if you could automate all their other employees.

    • DemocracyManifest on 10/10/2021 - 21:57
      +1

      Lmao what they will sack them and try to get them to repay the money haha

  • p1 ama on 10/10/2021 - 04:11
    +21

    Nobody in a professional job is being paid by the hour, you’re paid for your output. For me, there are weeks where I work 70+ hours, there are other weeks where I literally work a few hours per day.

    If you’re getting the work you were hired to do done to the standard required, then that’s all good to go.

    • Currynuts on 10/10/2021 - 16:55
      +3

      What about contractors?

      • Oneguyinmelb on 12/10/2021 - 09:57

        I would say contractors are still paid for output, however it's on the hiring manager to deem how long the output should take a suitable candidate to perform.

        Often they just get lazy and either copy and paste the previous selection criteria, workload and day rate.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 10/10/2021 - 07:37
    +1

    I am in much the same position, albeit different industry. The work gets done, and it gets done well. However, it doesn't take me 8 hours each day to do it. I can quite easily do an exceptional job and still spend much of the day cycling, spending time with my kid, doing household chores.

  • redfox1200 on 10/10/2021 - 07:38
    +27

    Dan,
    this is your manager some see me in the office tomorrow morning

  • morse on 10/10/2021 - 07:39
    +15

    I hope your boss is not on OzB. How many hydrologists are there in Brisbane who are working from home, turn over a fair bit of work and have had a conversation with the boss about burnout?

  • Hardlyworkin on 10/10/2021 - 07:45
    +8

    Want to combine usernames?

    • Kangal on 10/10/2021 - 16:47

      Hardly working, or working while hard?

      • AlienC on 12/10/2021 - 00:16
        +1

        Por que no los dos.

  • MontyMacaw on 10/10/2021 - 08:03
    +1

    Being paid specialist rates is something everybody aspires to. Make the most of it, it wasn’t an accident.

    • derrida derider on 11/10/2021 - 15:40
      +1

      Reminds me of a mate who had a very specialised machining business. He got called in to reset and readjust a production machine, which took him less than an hour. He presented a huge invoice:

      Full reset and adjustment of X machine: $100
      Knowing how to reset and adjust X machine:$900

  • brad1-8tsi on 10/10/2021 - 08:06
    +14

    I've done similar and not felt guilty. If your manager doesn't understand the nature of your work and can't see the potential for productivity improvements through automation then tough luck.

    Personally, I wouldn't book overtime. I think that's a bridge too far.

    When the office gets back to normal I'd consider suggesting some "productivity improvements" and incorporating your automation. Also, unless you are at the end of your career, you should be challenging yourself unless you CBF.

    • Alligate on 11/10/2021 - 19:01
      +1

      Agreed, it's all fine except for the overtime part, which is theft.

      • muzzamo on 12/10/2021 - 09:16

        Need to book a tiny bit of overtime every now and then otherwise it will raise a red flag.

        A well functioning department will have people stretching themselves occasionally only.

        • brad1-8tsi on 12/10/2021 - 17:31

          Need to book a tiny bit of overtime every now and then otherwise it will raise a red flag.

          That is deceptive conduct beyond "I'm working very efficiently and completing all my assigned tasks".

          I've worked in the water supply industry for 13 years. It's not common for "professionals" to book O/T unless the poo has hit the fan and it's a flood event, then the gravy train is fully booked.

  • Vagon on 10/10/2021 - 08:12
    +13

    I'm an outcomes guy. You're achieving outcomes so no problem. Also full utilisation of anything other than the bottleneck is wasteful, so again no problem assuming you're not the constraint in your company's valueflow.

    If you want to turn this up a notch, then I would scale this up either individually or to coworkers. Utilise the extra time to make the scripts more robust, with proper deployment and automated testing. Build an API so others can leverage your data or business logic as appropriate, etc, etc.
    Even better identify where the bottleneck is in the value your department delivers and help out with automation there.

    If you spent an extra 10 hours doing this you would be:
    1. Learning hands on skills that are both in demand and universally valuable
    2. Giving more time back and by association feel less guilty
    3. Making a difference to any coworkers who are less effective than you
    4. Increasing the value of the company in general

    • kiitos on 10/10/2021 - 10:07
      +10

      10 hours to refactor, build an API, build automated testing and productionise deployment?

      You sound like my delivery manager…

      :-)

      • Vagon on 10/10/2021 - 10:50
        +6

        Haha, 10 hours a week! A week!

  • jattsta on 10/10/2021 - 08:20
    +13

    Would be keen to know how you automated. Excel formulas? SQL queries? Report templates?

    • bio on 12/10/2021 - 17:27

      Hydraulic robots.

  • No Username on 10/10/2021 - 08:41
    +1

    I don't see an issue. IT is pretty much all about automation. I've seen people charge $40k+ for tasks that can be done in 2 days via script. 2 weeks by hand. In the end clients are paying for the right to use your script.

  • azonki on 10/10/2021 - 09:03
    +1

    Are you sure your boss is not a follower of r/sarcasm?

    the boss man questioned if I was burning myself out

    • Dowhatuwant on 11/10/2021 - 11:56
      -2

      this isn't reddit dude.

  • Mechz on 10/10/2021 - 09:10
    +3

    I got told by a manager many years ago that sometimes your real job is to make yourself redundant.

    Real question is now, how can you reduce that 10 hours to 5, then 5 to 2.5 and so on.

    • bamzero on 10/10/2021 - 12:56

      But if you want to keep your job, shouldn't you be making yourself indispensable? (or at least to appear so)

      • buckster on 11/10/2021 - 08:45
        +2

        2FA protected system? Without you, they're without system?

  • Noblejoker on 10/10/2021 - 10:26

    I think 'knowledge workers' should be paid for their results and not their time
    If you are being effective, to the point where the boss is worried you are overworking, then you are getting work done
    That said, it does feel a bit immoral to me to be paid for 40 and doing 10
    Is it possible to work under contract instead - contractors are definitely paid for results not time
    Also as a Contractor you could then negotiate a deal to sell them your more efficient system of operating
    System and even patent your workflow system and you might be able to licence to many firms doing similar work
    The 'product' you are selling has a price determined by the market and could easily equal many years of 'wages'

    • Stephen2 on 10/10/2021 - 23:22

      lol, how the heck does it hurt you man?? Only thing I'm sorry for is that everyone should be able to live comfortable working a few hours a day. If you're not, you're being exploited.

    • buckster on 11/10/2021 - 08:46

      Sarcasm was a bit too subtle for some!

  • afah0447 on 10/10/2021 - 10:45
    +2

    I get the sense you just couldn't wait to tell as many people as possible your great situation.

    I say good for you but like all things in life it won't last forever so don't get too comfortable.

    • nobro25 on 10/10/2021 - 13:38

      Sounds like OP is the type of person who wins a 40 Million Jackpot and ask the world what to do with it?

  • JIMB0 on 10/10/2021 - 10:48

    You should expand and take on a second job, then a third etc. Think of the money you could be making.

  • TheOtherLeft on 10/10/2021 - 10:59

    You're being retained for your specialist knowledge which is potentially to solve any problems.If there are no problems then it's good and you are being paid / retained just in case.

  • lifeisasimulation on 10/10/2021 - 11:52

    What sort of things do you do to automate?

    • bobbified on 10/10/2021 - 12:09
      +1

      Probably this kind of thing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUEu4ww4v38&t=182s

      • lifeisasimulation on 10/10/2021 - 12:25

        Hahah, very true
        I meant more of the automation of the work how that was done.

      • Noblejoker on 10/10/2021 - 12:27
        +1

        I added a little script to my Autohotkey that runs in the background all the time, specifically to move the mouse pointer a small amount after 3 mins idle
        It is a corporate pc and I can't alter the screensaver timeout or even set a simple pin so I was having to full login 20 times a day
        It is kind of funny watching the mouse do a little wiggle occasionally so the pc doesn't sleep

        • ModBot on 10/10/2021 - 13:33

          Google mousejiggler, thank me later

        • Sr11 on 11/10/2021 - 02:21

          Move mouse from Microsoft

  • Oofy Doofy on 10/10/2021 - 12:29
    +1

    There's an eagles song, they sing about when you're on to something good, don't tell people about it.

  • cwongtech on 10/10/2021 - 12:30
    +1

    To the O.P.

    Stop thinking in hourly, it punishes the efficient, which you clearly are
    Pricing Design Work & Creativity - Stop Charging Hourly

    Because you're worth it

    • Flying Ace on 10/10/2021 - 13:24
      +1

      I love the futur and Chris Do! Truly inspiring stuff they produce.

  • Tasmaniac on 10/10/2021 - 12:50
    +3

    I just wanted to say that the same f###ing people would want your head on a Pike mate if you were the victim of intergenerational poverty and refusing to look for work AND receiving benifits.
    Some food for thought.

  • bamzero on 10/10/2021 - 12:53
    +2

    (to a point the boss man questioned if I was burning myself out)

    Sounds like you need to ask for a raise? :)

  • ahly92 on 10/10/2021 - 13:43
    +4

    I'm confused by the poll, the question in the title is negative, yet the question in post (last line) is positive, so not sure what people are voting for. Which one is it.
    - 'Yes' - "I am crossing the line" or
    - 'Yes' "All good to go (continue)"

    Side not, agree, your not doing anything wrong, you've managed to effectively get your work done, output>time working

  • FareEvader on 10/10/2021 - 13:54

    Living the dream

  • liongalahad on 10/10/2021 - 14:27

    The op's automation: https://youtu.be/R_rF4kcqLkI?t=168

  • 28kb on 10/10/2021 - 14:35
    +6

    i am the opposite.. 60 hour weeks for 38 hours pay.. and don't have time to automate or most likely not skilled enough to automate

  • paradise on 10/10/2021 - 15:25

    Ask for a raise

  • Commander Shepard on 10/10/2021 - 15:54
    +1

    If your not planning on moving up higher in this specific business/firm. And are completing or exceeding the satisfactory amount of work compared to your peers.

    Then just keep doing what your doing. I wouldn't be asking for overtime though.
    Its not your fault the business is structured inefficiently.

  • GoIdDigger on 10/10/2021 - 16:18
    +4

    Are we voting yes/no to "am I crossing the line?" or "all good to go?"

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