[NSW] Primary School Online Teaching - Only 20 Mins Per Week

Handsoff on 18/08/2021 - 11:07
Last edited 20/08/2021 - 12:36

I recently found out from a collegue of mine that her daughter in Year 1, currently attending a public school on the north shore, gets 20 minutes of online "class" time with her teacher per week. This 20 minutes is where the whole class joins online together and they do a fun activity (nothing to do with learning). Other learning activities are posted on google class where the parents are required to teach the students.

I find this incredibily lazy on the teacher/ schools behalf. There's no scenario that plays out in my head where the teacher could have more lesson planning or marking load now. Is this happening state wide? Keen for teachers and parents to weigh in.

p.s 20 minutes per week is confirmed.

Edit 1: Thanks for all the input. It seems to be that our teachers are putting their best foot forward. Any disgruntled parents, have a read of some of the comments. To further the conversation, what's the solution? What are some of the things that could be done at home to make this work?

Education & Work

Comments

      • [Deactivated] on 26/08/2021 - 20:41

        Except it isn't a good analogy.

        Imagine an organisation with about 100,000 fulltime and part-time service consultants (teachers) delivering an educational experience to 1,241,962 clients (students) daily.

        Each consultant delivers a standardised curriculum over 'one year' to a consistent cohort of clients (students) streamed by age & years of schooling.

        If each teacher is uniquely editing videos and creating content for 'reasons' (yeah I know teachers have anecdotal explanations) then the management system is dysfunctional and has failed to stream the more capable students and leverage existing resources used by the remote learning students.

        If an organisation this large and important has not prepared for an emergency involving an interruption to face-to-face delivery, let alone covid for 18 months, it would seem to be abject failure and dereliction of duty.

        However, only 57 teachers were dismissed in 2017 - if you are really bad they will offer a redundancy - a tax payer gift for poor performance.

        WHY? Well the TEACHERS FEDERATION has THE POWER OF VETO over the CURRICULUM.

        And we thought communist USSR was dumb when they were offering teachers - cheap almost free - Aeroflot flights and holidays with socialist training in the '70's.

        Those Marxists have had half a century to subvert.

        https://www.acara.edu.au/reporting/national-report-on-school…
        https://www.smh.com.au/education/number-of-teachers-fired-fr…

    • hornbill on 20/08/2021 - 22:52

      Most teachers also running a household, teaching their own children at home, giving feedback to students, calling parents needing welfare support, working on lessons and putting out fires so, you know, they are busier than usual. Everyone is, it's an extraordinary time.

      • imurgod on 21/08/2021 - 10:17

        Couldn't agree more.

        Everyone is facing challenges right now.

  • soan papdi on 18/08/2021 - 15:33
    +1

    My grade 1 kid has 3-4 google meet sessions per day (45 mins each) with the regular teacher plus music, drama, etc). Offline assignments to be submitted via seesaw, reader books are sometimes scanned and added to seesaw as well as a task.

    • frozze on 20/08/2021 - 13:10
      +2

      Pretty much exactly like what my Year 1 girl is doing here in Victoria (Catholic school). Her school and teachers are pretty incredible considering the situation we're in. I'm also pretty blessed that my wife is a qualified early childhood educator (currently full time stay at home mum) who knows how to teach and engage with home remote learning!!

  • kanmen on 18/08/2021 - 20:18
    +21

    Thank you to all our teachers and early childhood educators who have had to adapt in these circumstances to continue to educate and develop our children! You're the essential workers that people don't talk enough about.

    • SydneySwan on 19/08/2021 - 08:16

      And in Queensland teachers are not even considered essential workers! Go figure.

    • nickj on 19/08/2021 - 20:11
      +2

      So true. And they should have been vaccinated earlier, they surely always had higher exposure risk that most occupations. Teachers and preschool educators are essential - I've always though they were essential for development of children, but I now see how essential they also are for the sanity of parents.

  • GourmetFoodie on 18/08/2021 - 21:40
    +13

    OP you clearly don’t know any teachers. They have been on the front lines since the start of the pandemic and working their asses off. Anyone complaining, you’ve clearly never tried presenting/pitching via zoom to ADULTS which is hard enough to keep their attention and engagement let alone 30 kids…

  • OzHunterNSW on 19/08/2021 - 10:26

    How pathetic… you may as well sit them down infant of Sesame Street.

  • ajwhi on 19/08/2021 - 11:08
    +1

    It took Victorian teachers a little time transitioning to online learning. Finding what students respond to in a completely new learning environment, migrating in person lesson plans to work in an online format, creating brand new lessons where the previous is not possible. Some teachers are filming lessons to improve student engagement, filming takes time and learning how to use the new software are also factors most parents wouldn't be aware of.

    NSW teachers will get there, but it's a process of constant improvement. Support them as much as you can.

    Also, i'll just leave this here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-23/victorian-teachers-wo…

  • TheGiantTomato on 19/08/2021 - 18:23
    +3

    Option A) kids get given ~3 hours of work per day, no socialising

    Option B) kids get given ~2.5 hours of work per day, and 0.5 hours to do a fun activity with their friends/class on zoom

    You do more at school than just maths problems.

  • IHateFrasierCrane on 19/08/2021 - 18:28

    Handsoff? Sounds like more Handson with you mate, get your hand off it.

  • T-rex on 19/08/2021 - 18:33
    +3

    My yr 1 child in Syd eastern suburbs public school - One 30 min zoom meeting with the teacher a week - whole class is in the zoom meeting……mainly social catching up on zoom, no teaching or learning.
    That’s ok bc they have prepared whole week of classes via google classroom for my child and have to mark it. I understand lots of work goes into preparing this.
    But in essence, parents are doing the teaching at home.

    • Longtimescroller on 20/08/2021 - 14:50

      That sounds pretty consistent, it's impossible to actually teach kindergarten via Zoom. The zoom is only for social interaction.

      A teacher will be working hard in the background to adapt all curriculum materials to be a palatable digital learning experience and giving feedback as much as possible.

      You are right though, especially for lower grades it is necessary that parents where possible facilitate their kids to engage with the materials.

      If parents aren't working, what a great opportunity instil some life skills!

  • mdavant on 19/08/2021 - 19:11
    +5

    It is very difficult for teachers at the moment.

    Dealing with

    Online teaching /planning (different to ftf)

    Supervising all the essential workers kids ( read actual essential workers kids plus all the behavioural kids effectively attending daycare)

    Parents with issues, imagine that kind of stress etc.

    Teaching their own children at home whilst nonessential workers are paid by the govnuts to be at home

    No govt assistance etc.

    Perhaps a little bit of thinking of the challenges faced by teachers rather than the ever growing Australian pastime of teacher bashing wouldn't go astray.

  • Ravensbane on 19/08/2021 - 19:42

    Both my kids, kindy and year 2, have two zoom classes a day each for 30 minutes per class. Personally happy with that.

  • serpserpserp on 19/08/2021 - 19:47

    Victoria was little online classes last year like NSW is now. But we learnt our lesson and do much more online teaching this year, a minimum of two hours a day (attendence is take for three core times). NSW just slow to adapt, or maybe doesn't want to do as Victoria does again.

  • iheartmaccas on 19/08/2021 - 20:53
    +1

    Granted we're a small school with only 10 in my class at the moment but we have 45 minutes daily for numeracy and 45 for literacy (select kids hang on at the end for more individual feedback and if they need help with assigned tasks.) We distribute hardcopy learning materials weekly with lots of cut and paste, hands on and fun activities. Each Friday they have a 30 minute specialist session for library and for music.

    We spend our 'spare' time planning learning activities for the following week relevant to curriculum goals, preparing engaging lessons for online classes and WebEx meetings, and supervising and supporting kids of essential workers who are onsite at this time.

    Possibly not true for everyone but lots going on in the background here :)

    (Victoria DET school)

  • DiscoJango on 19/08/2021 - 20:54
    +2

    If this lockdown nonsense continues, these kids will basically grown up to have zero in person social skills.

    • CalmLemons on 22/08/2021 - 02:22

      Maybe they can work on their internet commentary etiquette.

  • seraphim2017 on 19/08/2021 - 20:55
    -4

    Yep, bone idle. Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but have not experienced any form of care or commitment from NSW public schools.

    Surely as they're "working" from home, they should be signing on to zoom at 9, and staying on until 3 , so kids can "raise their hand" and get help, and can be engaged with the teacher. If they would normally be there they can teach the normal curriculum this way. School my child is at is even worse, and I can guarantee they won't be helping the kids catch up by working longer over the next few years and shortening school school holidays to lessen this lost time impact.

    No idea why they wouldn't ensure the kids are getting an education, especially considering this lockdown is going to continue.

    • mdavant on 19/08/2021 - 21:08
      +2

      Just because they are not engaging with your child, it does not mean they are not engaging with other children.

      If your children at home, then you or your partner (etc) should be as well.
      If you are not working, perhaps look at helping your child
      If you are working, perhaps think of the teacher who is quite possibly teaching their own child at home too.

      • [Deactivated] on 19/08/2021 - 23:29
        -4

        WTF "If you are working, perhaps think of the teacher who is quite possibly teaching their own child at home too.", then why are teachers receiving a salary if they are not committed to putting in the same face to face hours. Teaching their child should be done after school hours. Socialists

        • mdavant on 20/08/2021 - 06:07
          +3

          If you cannot see the error in your reply, I'll point it out.

          It is expected that the teacher works full time and teaches their own child after hours

          And

          The other worker works full time and doesn't have to put anything into their child.

          I can't understand how you can't see how that isn't putting extra onto the teacher.

          Teacher bashing by a public who have forgotten that we are all in this together.

          • [Deactivated] on 20/08/2021 - 13:58
            -3

            @mdavant: i fail to see 'the error' in my reply

            • Teachers are employed to educate children in their care
            • Teacher wants full pay and conditions
            • Teacher has child
            • Teacher-Of-Child not adequately caring or educating
            • Teacher provides less service because my 'own child needs attention'
            • Teacher fails to realise that their 'own child needs attention' ONLY BECAUSE other teachers are also not providing adequate care and education.

            Teacher fails to grasp the logic

            Teacher and teachers colleagues are failing each other, and the children in their care.

            Personally I think you fail to grasp that the teachers circumstance is created by the collective failure of teaching colleagues who place the burden on other teachers with children, who then blame parents for correctly observing the teachers collective failure to adequately fulfil their duties.

            Teacher blames parents even though they are the only ones providing full service for full value.

            it seems like institutionalised socialism - no accountability, no responsibility, transfer of obligations to others, less productivity - same pay, feels victimised, blames the proletariat (working class)

            Instead of awareness, teacher falls back to a conditioned habituated response and needs to point 'error' in a dissonant narrative, blames the 'public' (psychological distancing from accountability).

            Thank you, absolutely and sincerely, for taking the time to reply I am not intending to attack you personally nor bully, chide or ridicule. It just seems like convoluted avoidance of responsibility to me.

            • mdavant on 20/08/2021 - 14:53
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: The difference is that I did not say that the teacher is not teaching adequately to the children.

              I am saying they are teaching our children and their children so how can we not be expected to chip in too.

              Who is doing the home schooling of the teacher's child if they just like you, throw the towel in at 5pm and say "it's not my responsibility"

              It is a very simply pointed out, logical argument that requires but a little time from parents who expect teachers to do more during the pandemic and won't do it themselves.

              I work about 2500-2700 hours per year and can easily find time to assist my children with their work after I come home.

              Would you feel better if the teacher provided EIGHT minutes one on one with your child every day?

              • [Deactivated] on 20/08/2021 - 19:30

                @mdavant: It frustrates me to see children and their friends, our future, receiving a substandard education (and no we don't need more resources or training) even without Covid.

                The only true victims here are the kids, and they have no realisation they are being cheated and manipulated.

                They are young, innocent and are unaware of the hypocrisy of this world.

                I do, however, appreciate your position - YES we can all do better.

                Upvoted.

      • seraphim2017 on 20/08/2021 - 07:36
        -4

        So its ok then? As long as they engage with some children it doesn't matter about all the kids in their class? Wow.

        Teachers in the public system we go to aren't qualified to engage with non neurotypical kids as they choose the easiest electives to qualify. Nor do they care as long as the child is medicated and doesn't cause paperwork or stress for them.

        And believe me, I'd much rather be working from home, but one of the things about working in public health, we don't get a choice. I've barely seen my family for downtime so this entitled whining about admin and preparing zoom lessons is appalling. I also teach via zoom and lesson prep is basically the same as face to face, just delivery mode changes. You'd have the same admin face to face.

        If teachers are working, on full pay, then they can't be also effectively teaching their own kids surely? Maybe if they had to send their kids to schools where they were at risk due to covid they'd understand what it's like for public health workers who are at risk at work and who still show up.

        I don't blame every teacher, but my experience has been utter slackness. You may well be a good teacher and as I said, unpopular opinion, but it's the experience I've had, and I'm not completely alone in it.

        • mdavant on 20/08/2021 - 08:52

          I'm not a teacher I am a doctor and have had 2 weeks holidays in the past 2 and a half years and work long hours.

          I am home schooling my children.

          I know many teachers who are effectively home schooling their children by putting more time in.

          My children do not need extra time be it at home OR in the class.

          How much time do you think cherubs get one on one per school day?

          Probably 4 hours of teaching in a class of 30(easier for the math)

          Do you expect that all kids get their 8 minutes per day or that the more independent get less and the more needy kids get more?

    • hornbill on 20/08/2021 - 22:57

      And all worker's should be on zoom from 9-5 so their manager can raise their hand whenever they are needed. Like teacher's don't have their own kids to teach at home, household to run, or admin to do.

  • Eeples on 19/08/2021 - 22:00
    +1

    Some teachers will be slack most likely the ones that are slack when not locked down.

    Student engagement is a real problem certainly in Years 7-10.
    The students without parental support are falling further behind.

    And those students with difficult home lives, poverty, no Internet; will suffer most.

  • Sunkeest on 19/08/2021 - 22:12
    +8

    I'm a secondary school teacher (and first time poster). Just wanted to come on here to echo everything that the other teachers have mentioned about the ridiculous amount of administrative work in addition to all the planning, resource making, marking and following up with student issues.

    A very big thank you to all those who have commented here who empathise with the teachers and understand that the job isn't just about doing a Zoom for 30 minutes. For every minute a teacher spends in front of the kids, there's about 5 to 10 minutes of behind the scenes work.

    It is incredibly disheartening to see a lot of blame heaped on teachers rather than the government who have continued to contribute to the declining conditions in the job with poorly thought through policies, the number of policies and a lack of funding amongst other things (check the Gallop report).

    However, it's kind people like you non-teaching folks who understand the difficulties of the job without having to experience it first hand that keeps us going and not just completely dispirited from being in a career that is seemingly so often underestimated.

    • UncleMurphy on 19/08/2021 - 22:34
      +9

      Secondary teacher here too, we've been in lockdown and closed since the start of the term. I teach in a practical subject (Not PE!) and we see the students less per cycle and thus only do a Zoom lesson once a week. We're in the hard locked down LGA with ever increasing COVID numbers each day. Families here struggle for basics let alone a luxury such as a single decent device or stable internet connection. Add on top of that, these families have on average 3-7 school aged kids and struggle with running Zoom lessons without the distractions of other members of their family.

      The workload is a lot harder than teaching face-to-face, with our subject area being usually 60% practical - with the road to returning to norm not being this term, it means we have taught 50% of theory content so far! With constant day-to-day changes in policy and rules we are constantly working on our feet and adapting tasks, assessments and classwork without complaints. We have had a massive influx in phone calls and communication from parents asking us how to discipline, motivate, counsel them (and their kids) or even basic tasks such as waking up on time.

      Add on top of this, a weak union who have been toothless and powerless during this pandemic (2020 and now) and a government who chooses to label us as essential workers only when it is convenient for them. So to the parents and families doing the right thing and adapting to this ever changing world we are in - thank you. To the small minority who think or perceive we're having it easy, I invite you post-pandemic to join the P&C and participate in the annual school tours to see what it REALLY is like teaching your child in the education system.

      • Handsoff on 20/08/2021 - 12:31
        +1

        Thanks Sunkeest and Unclemurphy for the constructive insight - I never thought to consider the intangibles you two have mentioned. From reading all the comments, it seems most our teachers are doing the best they can with the current situation. I sincerely hope all the disgruntled parents get to read your comments.

        Is there a way that the schools can get you teachers some more support? Seems there needs to be classes for parents on how to parent.

        • UncleMurphy on 20/08/2021 - 14:50

          Handsoff, the best way for parents to support their students is to be involved in their child's education - helping them with homework and having a routine (small things such as making sure they wake up on time, they pack their own bags etc.). Parents should be checking their child's bag everyday for homework and written comments in their student diary. Being involved in the P&C is also a good way for you to establish effective communication with the school and it's support networks. More often than not just doing these basic tasks will lift your child's academic ability and behaviour in class.

          Edit: In my subject area, we often have to teach parents how to prepare breakfast for their kids! I remember running a P&C morning tea a few years ago where parents complained that both themself and their children were unable to focus in the morning for work and school - turns out they never had breakfast as a kid themselves! Our short 10 min lesson on how to create French Toast turned into a hour long "I now know how to cook breakfast and fulfill the needs of myself and my child".

        • fossilfuel on 21/08/2021 - 20:06
          +2

          Definitely, I strongly recommend reading this fact sheet on the Gallop Enquiry and your show support as a parent.

          The biggest detriment to your child's learning, in my opinion, is the massive administrative burden and compliance measures teachers are required to do. Parents don't see this part of teaching. This article has some figures. These burdens with online learning include logging details about contact with students, emails from staff/students, setting up zoom meetings, seesaw, google classrooms, reading eggs/mathletics accounts, phoning students if there are concerns, marking (which is fine) then gathering/uploading samples of their work to prove that they are learning (tedious and unnecessary), maintaining a daily working from home log, lesson planning, maintaining records of attendance etc the list is endless.

          Especially for younger primary students, teachers are required to complete running records once a week to "prove"/map out how students are progressing. Imagine having a teacher do this for all 25+ students in their class, listening to the student read while madly scribbling down notes while the rest of the class are doing independent activities. Teachers might need to do this twice a week to get through the whole class. Multiply that by 41 weeks in a school year and you have a lot of wasted time which students/teachers could be using for active and engaging lessons. All this wasted work just to determine the right reading level/books for students when teachers could be actively teaching students how to read.

          All non-teaching/administrative tasks increases teacher stress and takes time away from proper learning. Students have 25 hours of learning a week when you subtract recess and lunch. Add in the time teachers are mandated to gather "evidence" of student learning and complete administrative tasks and you'll have even less time dedicated to learning.

  • Munki on 19/08/2021 - 22:35
    +11

    I bet those who are complaining are the same ones who think teachers clock on at 9 and clock off at 3 and don't do any work during school holidays too.

  • J6 on 19/08/2021 - 22:52
    +4

    Where do you think the rest of the work comes from that the students complete in the online classroom? It's all created by the teacher. Uploading it also takes time, emailing parents also takes time, zoom calling other students takes time.

    Seriously, imagine you have to make enough engaging work that aligns with the aus curriculum that also last several hours. Creating 1hr or work often will take 2+hrs

    • mdavant on 20/08/2021 - 07:18

      And that other workers will often just work at home doing the same thing remotely (albeit with challenges too)

      But essentially a lot of the usual curriculum delivered ftf does not translate at all to online learning.

      And the content needs to be researched and often developed by each teacher. Not an easy task I can imagine.

  • Hangryuman on 20/08/2021 - 09:42
    -1

    'I find this incredibily lazy on the teacher/ schools behalf'

    ah yes - the old 'attack the teacher cos I as a non-teacher would do it better, despite the fact that I don't/won't or can't …'

    joy - anyone notice the mispelled 'incredibily' ?

    yair - all yoooze teechers are schtooopid cos I nose better anydaze - cud run rings around use lazee r souls - get a real job !

    as a retired teacher, my take is the transition to online teaching during COVID lockdown

    would have been a massive disruption and addition to already heavy teacher class preparation workloads -
    requiring them to acquire new skills, learn new software, prepare new materials for online learning,
    all the while seeking to contact and engage and gain agreement from multiple people via multiple means of communication,
    all the while knowing the neediest students are likely to NOT have the online fast internet reliability needed for this fancy 'online' teaching,
    all the while struggling with management demands to 'do more with less' while slashing staff numbers due to falling attendances, uncertain they'll even have a job next month or get paid

    and then on top of juggling a pile of disasters, smar tarse parents pipe up with 'I don't like your online class' …

    sounds about white, Karen.

    • popsiee on 20/08/2021 - 10:45

      With no overseas students for a long time this profession is `^ ed ( All the unemployed teachers catering for them are after any job in the field ) Unless they want to be Checkout Chicks . I don't blame them with the current workload and most importantly 3 mths of holiday pay ( Correct that to probably nearly double with the current Covid situation in the Big Boy cities ) .
      Unless you like applying for jobs with 70 applicant's .

    • [Deactivated] on 20/08/2021 - 14:15
      -2

      Just wow - chide, snide and self indulgent - how must you have been to your students.

      Remember parents the NSW STATE GOVERNMENT has granted the TEACHERS UNION the POWER OF VETO over curriculum in NSW.

      Remember remember the comment above when you hear platitudes about teachers caring for your children and community - this person taught your children values.

      The Department of Education, Bridge Street, has had 18 months to prepare standardised structured online lesson plans - In fact they already exist, created for remote learning students.

      If 'they' are slow to adapt and change - you know why.

      • mdavant on 20/08/2021 - 14:59

        May I ask what you do for a living?

      • Munki on 21/08/2021 - 04:20

        Bridge St isn't even where it's located any more…Like for a few years now.

  • yamahamoto on 20/08/2021 - 10:59

    My son (grade 1) get 2 zoom sessions a day with the whole class. Learning materials are on seesaws and teacher can help individual student if needed. My son is a bit behind with creative writings so the school have gotten an intern teacher to help him twice a week in a small group of 2-3 kids with similar level.

  • mrvaluepack on 20/08/2021 - 11:27

    I think Op is mistaken. Its 20 mins per day.

  • Jayblu on 20/08/2021 - 11:31
    +4

    Wife of a kindy teacher here, get a grip i don't see my husband almost all day except for breakfast break and lunch break. They have about two hr sessions a week where it's mostly fun activities for the kids. Teachers work never ends even after clocking out from school when teaching was face to face and it's not different now except they get to do more inside their work hours instead of finishing projects etc outside their work hours.

  • Ironh59 on 20/08/2021 - 11:56

    My son goes to a public high school, and I feel he has to focus lot more than he does in actual class. They have periods like they have in school, and all of them have to be on the zoom/teams call. If they don't see someone they call parents straight away. Once we got a call from teacher because he was 2 mins late for a class.

  • hazelnut09 on 20/08/2021 - 13:53

    I am a primary school teacher. I'm currently teaching upper grades at an independent school.
    Upper grades receive 2 hours of zoom lessons per day (Mathematics and English). This decision was made by the school about a month ago. Before online lessons, we were recording ourselves teaching (which was really tricky). My working hours are ridiculous and I'm burnt out.

    It's a difficult time for many people. I hope that people remind themselves that teachers are not trained to teach online. Most teachers are trying their very best to ensure that their students are not missing out and are cared for.

  • BartholemewH on 20/08/2021 - 16:42

    My child (kindy) has 0 minutes of whole class zoom per day/week. We send videos/photos to the teacher and video/written feedback is provided per student. Does the teacher have more/less to do? Does it matter? If you're looking to get outraged there are bigger fish to fry.

    • jonathan111 on 22/08/2021 - 15:19

      mine has 30 mins per week zoom

      I have to spend +2 hours teaching and uploading per day to keep up

      in NSW

  • pformag on 20/08/2021 - 17:58
    -2

    I'm in WA, so I don't understand what you all talking about. What is zoom? ;)

    • Daabido on 20/08/2021 - 19:59

      It's what we buy with all the tax dollars you send east.

      • mdavant on 20/08/2021 - 21:58

        From digging up the rocks we all own

  • jeka1103 on 20/08/2021 - 18:37

    Just putting it out there, some schools were avoiding Zoom lessons for kids under year 10 last year and the first few weeks of this lockdown as it can cause concerns with child protection laws and polices. There may be schools that are still espeically cautious about this and are limiting the amount of time teachers spend video calling the students.

  • ThriftyForLife on 20/08/2021 - 21:14
    +1

    Interesting discussion and something that has been bothering me for a while.
    First - hats of to the teachers who are juggling this new beast of online learning. The last few months have taught me how hard a job it is to manage a bunch of kids (and I have only one :-0

    Rather than criticisms - I have a few questions and learnings to share.
    - Prep - it surprises me that schools did not see this coming (another wave of lockdowns) maybe the education department should have done a much better job than getting every school to plan for it. I think the fact that they don't have more resources / training and technology for you is shameful.
    - My organizations big learning was transferring what we did F2F directly to remote is a bad idea. I am still surprised that every teacher spends time designing the weekly learning activities. Surely it would be more efficient to do this at a shool / district or even a state level. Save 100's of teachers creating google classroom slides. Rather have 2/3 learning sets per grade and teachers can assign it to students based on progress. In honesty the google classroom slides could be much better designed if done centrally.
    - I have come to accept that children respond to teachers and parents instructions differently. Something coming from teachers is still seen as more authoritative. Hence the request for more Zoom time with teachers.
    Have schools given though to how the workload for teachers should change (maybe reduce admin) / create more materials centrally, have a variety of “plug and play” sessions available?
    New environments require new ideas rather than blame games.

    • UncleMurphy on 20/08/2021 - 23:03
      +4

      I can tell you a few things, perspective from a Secondary Teacher teaching TAS (Technological & Applied Studies, aka Industrial Arts & Home Economics for the old school):

      • Instead of having to complete our own professional development at the start of the Term (the Monday pupil free day) we were given time to acquire as many resources as we can and convert them for online delivery. All the staff at our worksite were unable to come in to even retrieve our work laptops, let alone textbooks or any teaching resources. Our file storage system at work is extremely limited in space (each department is only given 250gb across 12 staff members). Consider all the videos, worksheets, programs etc that we would need stored multiplied by the 4-5 individual subjects we'd teach against our timetable - the space given is NOT enough. Accessing it online is even more difficult, we have no search function and must individually navigate the folders through memory.

      • It takes a lot of time to prepare lessons due to the fact we have so many different learning needs from students (differentiated learning). Unlike schooling when most of us were kids we were all taught using the "cookie cutter" method where one piece of work is given to all students in the class, we are now producing 25+ differentiated lessons for each student, per period. There is no time (even during our "free" periods) to create resources all of this (plus more) is chewed up on administrative tasks and ongoing paperwork (usually compliance, welfare reports, meetings, applications for disability provisions, government funding etc.)

      As a light hearted way to describe things, when you were in school there were three basic categories of kids - "the normal", "the nerds" and "the not so smart (politically correct)" ones. Nowadays you have requirements such as little Johnny has social anxiety and can't complete group work, Jane can only work with green paper, Beatrice has dyslexia but her family can't afford an e-pen etc.

      • Worksheets/teaching resources are NOT centralised. Most teachers create them from scratch, some pay for them externally, others network and ask (this doesn't happen as often anymore). Any work we produce during working hours is owned by the Department of Education - however each school has it's own filing and storage solution. Yes there are some DISTANCE EDUCATION resources given but these are often only small sample units OR unsuitable for online learning. These resources are most suited for class sizes in the single digits - which is the norm out in remote and rural learning areas.

      • We did a survey recently in response to the Gallop Report (read it if you haven't), when I was teaching F2F I was undertaking on average 35 hours of unpaid work each week. I am fairly experienced but I feel for those who have only just taught in the past 3 years, some of them in my department are struggling and are working a lot longer than this. We try to support one another but there is only so much that we can do.

      • I can personally tell you what works for one school in a 3km radius will most likely not be remotely compatible with its neighbouring school. Teachers are constantly being scrutinised for their judgement but at the end of the day we have always the best intentions for your children. I personally have 50 min lessons in which I allow my students some freedom with their work, work is set to be approximately 20-30mins whilst the rest is time for them to ask me questions or keep themselves active around the house. On average each family has 2-4 students in our school, so helping mum do some rearranging of the pantry, preparing or cooking a dish are skills I value ALOT more from my students than sitting on a computer staring at a screen on Zoom. But that is my style of teaching - practical, hands on experience and being able to become life long learners (and if I can, become positive role models and citizens in our society).

      • Parents need to understand that there is A LOT of goodwill given from teachers in order for their child to develop. We are lucky in Australia that we have an inclusive education system that allows everyone the chance to learn. Having taught overseas in some countries, we take this for granted way too much.

      Anyway, that's my teacher's point of perspective on this. As I mentioned previously in my comments - 95% of families are very understanding of this ever changing pandemic. The 5% who think we do nothing or seen as a child minding service, please take a look at your own jobs and see if it is always heavily scrutinised, bashed or battered by the public and media. At the end of the day, no matter what is said your child will always be our priority.

      • CalmLemons on 22/08/2021 - 02:25
        +1

        You deserve a like, but most people won't give you a like because you took so much time and effort to write that yet they are too lazy to read it.

        Funny how kids can turn out like their parents ^__^

        It's always the 1-5% that ruin it for the other 95%.

        Online classes are a drainer for everyone….except for uni students that never show up to lectures anyway….

        • UncleMurphy on 22/08/2021 - 09:34

          Appreciate the vote and awareness Gallifr3y! Yes it was a big comment to reply to, but as long as it has widened the knowledge and awareness of the intricacies within the teaching profession to one individual - then I have done my job! 🙂

          • CalmLemons on 22/08/2021 - 20:11
            +1

            @UncleMurphy: I believe most people are just after a witch to burn. Tis the season.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 20/08/2021 - 21:18
    -4

    We've had 200 days of this crap in Victoria. My kid's' teachers aren't even online most of the time. Just occasionally attach some worksheet to the chat and expect kids to complete it whenever they want.
    Why aren't the teachers online for the normal timetable? Kids can't even ask questions about the work that's set and often, there isn't even any work set. It's an absolute disgrace, my kids are really missing out on their education.
    People in normal jobs like myself and my partner have to do our usual jobs online at the usual times. Normal people have to make it work somehow, why don't teachers?… Because they're answerable to no one and no doubt will be asking for another 5%+ payrise for all the hard work.
    Add to that the regular "curriculum days" and "pupil free days" which are always attached to a long weekend or regular school holiday. There was another curriculum day coming up before the latest lockdown, but when it was announced, they cancelled it…. No point having "a day off" when the kids are home schooling and teaching them is optional during lockdown. 🤬

    The problem is, unless the working parents have a ton of time to check whether the teachers are online for each lesson, constantly check what their kids are being taught and monitor it whilst they are meant to be working themselves many parents won't even notice. Those that do notice won't complain because generally there's not a damn thing you can do… Teachers are like the police or the military.. They close ranks and cover each other at the slightest sniff of an issue.

    They'll also strongly retaliate on here to any suggestion that they're not some kind of miracle performing higher being.

    • mdavant on 20/08/2021 - 22:29

      Well I guess you can expect more from teachers when you pay back all the jobkeeper you pocketed whilst having all those weeks off during lockdown ;)

      Another teacher basher.

      Obviously you didn't get the marks to become a teacher if you didn't choose to become one.

      • OzzyOzbourne on 20/08/2021 - 23:14

        Typical aggressive nonsensical response from someone trying to justify working <10 hours per week. How do you know I received job keeper? I got the 'marks' (whatever that means) for a proper job. My taxes pay for you to work full time (25 hours per week for a teachers), so I'm expecting a refund.

        • mdavant on 21/08/2021 - 03:43
          -2

          I'm not a teacher.

          U still an automotive electrician?

          So u got jobkeeper whilst the teacher's didn't and have the gall to criticise.

          Nice to know that their taxes kept you afloat.

          Btw the taxes argument is a lowball immature statement. Teachers pay tax.

          If it is so easy and well paid, go become a teacher. I know I couldn't do the job. Especially when some members of the public don't value the job and how difficult it can be, especially with some very difficult children and some very difficult parents

        • Munki on 21/08/2021 - 04:27

          You need to get your head out of your arse mate. You have no idea how much work is involved with being a teacher as we can see your ignorance on full display.

    • hornbill on 20/08/2021 - 23:01
      -1

      Teachers deserve a 20% pay rise for going back to crowded classrooms last year so most others could work safely from home and keep the economy going. They are already the most underpaid and maligned professionals that do the most important job in society.

  • sheebies on 20/08/2021 - 22:44

    My son is in year 1 at a public school in the blue mountains.

    He gets roughly an hour zoom meeting with his teacher and class a week, he also has a 15 minute reading session with his teacher and 2 classmates.

    His teacher also calls me once a week just to check in.
    She puts up a video and some photos every day so the kids can start their day seeing her and having a basic instruction on work for the day.

    She is also available any time via email.

    She's freaking amazing. She has been amazing through this whole situation.

  • Oz em on 20/08/2021 - 23:57

    My kids at a private school get nothing.
    Just some boring tasks assigned on seesaw. Repetitive busy work with no value.

    • congo on 21/08/2021 - 08:08

      How much are you paying for private?

      • Oz em on 21/08/2021 - 09:05

        6k each a year.
        They were at a 20k each a year school, so much better but not a bargain.
        Zoned school isn’t good.

  • congo on 21/08/2021 - 08:07

    We are in Sydney West and our kids in primary get 0 minutes per week.
    They only get a few activities and YouTube videos to watch via their google classroom.

  • dave999 on 21/08/2021 - 08:35
    -1

    I didn't realise this was how a lot of schools were operating. It sounds disastrous for children's learning.

    My three kids basically have zoom all day, mirroring their normal school day - same class time, same recess and lunch. The teacher teaches for the start of each lesson and then students do their work and can put their hand up and the teacher unmutes them and answers their questions. They get a lesson plan sent each day with a short explanation for each period saying what they are doing and what resources they need for the task they will be doing, such as which textbook, colouring pencils, glass of water for a science experiment etc. It basically mirrors exactly being in class.

    Not saying this should be the norm or is even possible for households with lack of access to one computer per child or decent internet but it is certainly possible with proper internet and a computer per child.

    I know teachers work hard and it is not an easy task managing 30 children (it would sent me mental) but teaching online should not take more time than teaching at school.

    • IceCreamBandit on 21/08/2021 - 11:12
      +1

      but teaching online should not take more time than teaching at school.

      1) Differentiation (teaching to suit all learning styles/needs) takes much more time and effort in an online environment. In a normal classroom, you can set the 'mainstream' work and walk around to individual students and verbally give advice suited to their needs to assist them in completing the work. There is still preparation to do, but generally so much of it is in our heads from prior experience so we can just facilitate as necessary, and give them the opportunity to try and work things out for themselves.

      This is not possible in an online environment.

      Students can miss/be late to class for whatever reason, and need to catch up in their own time. As a result, all the differentiation (screen recordings, audio clips, extra written advice) needs to be created ahead of time so no child is left behind.

      2) Communication. This takes so much more time. I am not going to hold Teams/Zoom calls for the entire duration of a scheduled period (high school setting) as we cannot be sure students have unlimited data at home. I spend 15 minutes per period to explain the work, answer as many questions as possible during the call, and remain online for students to comment/ask questions in Teams/Classroom. In a normal classroom, if a student says "I don't get it", I can immediately walk over and speak with them to assist. In the online environment, students often still say "I don't get it", but don't elaborate without multiple prompts and responses from us. NESB students will need even more assistance if their grasp of written English is still developing.

      Students will also often ask questions outside of scheduled periods. At school this is easy enough to manage if they see us during lunch. Sure it is inconvenient to have our breaks interrupted, but it's often a quick 1-2 minute conversation to facilitate learning.

      In the online environment, I cannot see many teachers willing to leave those questions unanswered to the next class. Depending on the subject/year group/timetable structure, that could leave students without assistance for over a week. That will see students fall behind, proceed with incorrect concepts and have to re-do the work when corrected, or we compund the stress that students are already facing.

      Most of my colleagues are working harder than ever, for longer periods than ever. The time saved from not commuting has already been eaten up with all this extra work.

      I'm sure there are things I've forgotten, but I hope this gives some insight into how online teaching is very different to teaching at school.

      • dave999 on 21/08/2021 - 12:12

        It sound like what you are doing is pretty close to what I described my children are receiving (15 minutes per period explaining work) with the ability for students to ask questions, and the polar opposite of 20 minutes per week.

        I probably should of phrased by last sentence a bit differently, I meant it should not take more time online than at school but it obviously won't be as productive time. It will also not work for all students and the more challenging students will suffer more, as I did mention.

        I understand and agree with pretty much everything you are saying but my point was that 20 minutes per week is not really teaching properly, and I think you would agree that closer to 15 minutes per period is probably doable and better for the children's education.

  • popsiee on 21/08/2021 - 08:47

    I think cancel all private school fees and even for public schools sign up at one of the top review tutoring online WS for best result nowadays .

  • fairyflossgrapes on 21/08/2021 - 13:09

    Thank you for taking on board that your child is not the only child in his/her classroom that needs teaching during an extremely difficult period.

    Even for Victoria, where we have had more lockdown than the other states, it's still difficult to calculate the perfect balance between not enough/enough/too much for each separate child during lockdown. Have patience with your teachers; they are needing to deal with the same crap as other parents.

  • vinnychase on 21/08/2021 - 13:37

    I finished year 12 last year and it was pretty much business as usual until abruptly a few weeks before Easter break when rumours started going around that we would be shifting to work from home. And then 1 morning In late March Gladys announced that parents should only send kids to school if parents are essential workers. My reaction to this was Very Happy especially because we had an assessment that was part submission and part In class exam and the announcement meant that the in class exam component was cancelled. From then I was at home for about 2 months. During this period we had a couple of online time constrained tests however they were forced to be open book(more like open google) since there was no way to prevent it. There was a big shift in marks here where you could tell that some kids were studying with discipline independently whilst others were having the holiday of their life(me). My most important feedback to teachers would be that in online teaching, to prevent kids like me from going off the rail you should try to speak personally to each student and see where they’re at with their learning.

    In my opinion Online teaching doesn’t really negatively impact learning ability(like online or not most things will take the about same effort to understand) but it reduces how accountable students are to their teachers and the reduced accountability reduces their motivation to work. In my case what happened is that pre WFH in maths we used to do about 1 chapter of the textbook per lesson in class but at home I did 0 for about 4 weeks until a teacher realised my shenanigans and sent me a threatening email and then I managed to miraculously catch up. So to wrap up what I’ve realised while writing this is that what online learning changes is that students lose motivation because going to school is a Constant and then they’re basically forced to learn but at home they basically aren’t accountable to anyone at which point someone like me starts looking for other things to spend my time on like movies, travelling and sleeping

    • vinnychase on 21/08/2021 - 13:51

      End result I graduated with a 87 atar which I guess is probably what I would’ve gotten regardless of whether COVID happened or not so I guess it works out fine. A good way to deal with these kind of situations is to be optimistic and look at the good sides of things that are out of your control. Example: Lockdown: those that spiralled out during this period viewed it negatively and whined that teachers were digitally incompetent and that online exams didn’t give enough practice for HSC exams.
      My take on the lockdown was that it reduced time wasting activities such as assemblies, commuting, and rambling teachers/students

  • [Deactivated] on 21/08/2021 - 15:26
    -2

    Education has gone downhill since the 70's as the Marxist Socialists continued their long march through the bureaucracy. I know this comment will be voted down but you can say one thing about collectivists - they do support each other. It could also be said that their members never take responsibility for their role in any failure of the outcome.

    Parents don't expect a better outcome, unfortunately, and as many teachers on here have truthfully expressed 'parents will need to take responsibility for their children's education'.

    So you can be happy or unhappy with the pap being delivered up to your child - the choice is yours AND it's not likely to change for the better.

    • mdavant on 21/08/2021 - 18:40

      The content is questionable for sure.

      I would guess because some parents cannot be relied upon to give sound advice on things that they have problems with.

      Drugs
      Alcohol
      Respect for others
      Respect for authority
      How to eat with utensils
      How to respect public health orders

      Etc etc etc

      But the general teacher bashing on here is not about content it is just the same old jealousy and people not understanding that a good teacher puts in an honest days work (and are paid very well for that work)

      So sure, the indoctrination of our children with leftist agendas is one thing, but to discredit the good work teachers are doing at the moment, by some of the posters is not right.

  • Stevecro on 22/08/2021 - 00:35

    Easy solution, don't have kids.

  • sarahlump on 22/08/2021 - 10:55
    +1

    can the kid read, can the kid write some words, can the kid do some math?

    get the kid a book and some sudoku. grade 1 is mostly just about socialising, learning to be in an education environment, reading, writing, and math. p sure books exist. think of it like this, its a great way to prepare for university. i get 0 individual time with lecturers. my workshop/lap people, very rarely do you get individual instruction.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2021 - 16:32

    'Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me'

    When 'going along to get along' doesn't work anymore - one school teacher finally gets it

    https://twitter.com/DrewWilderTV/status/1425250552003403785

  • Orico on 22/08/2021 - 19:33

    Some kids only want to play and will not listen to a teacher through a PC.

    • vinnychase on 22/08/2021 - 21:33

      I barely listen to my teacher in a physical classroom. On a PC its even easier since the teacher can't see me playing cool math games

  • weezlebub on 23/08/2021 - 15:22
    +3

    Looks like the teachers have plenty of time for ozbargain, anything negative against teachers is automatically down voted …

    Seems to be a case by case type thing, some teachers are amazing and some are lazy …

    The only real way to find out is to see how much they complain about returning to classrooms :)

    • UncleMurphy on 23/08/2021 - 19:38
      -1

      I up voted because I love a good tongue and cheek comment, but take the word "teachers" out and swap it with "worker". Bar politicians, teachers are one of the most scrutinised professions on the internet. I don't see any other professions being judged so harshly all the time?

      I have no issues with returning, provided schools are a SAFE WORKPLACE for everyone (students, teachers, support staff, families etc.), and I don't think that is too big of an ask.

  • Freakycat on 26/08/2021 - 18:58

    I heard parents from another popular North Shore school complained there was no online learning. My son goes to an inner city school and they login daily for at least half an hour. The teacher goes through the list of homework they do each day. There is a weekly timetable with all the links on reading, sometimes Maths, some reading materials, they also have online disco, assembly, extra writing class and the principal teaches kids how to cook every Friday. The only bad thing is lots of homework, then they reduce it to 2 pieces of work a day. No need to send kids to tuition, cos the written work is good and his school teacher teaches writing better than his tuition.

    It is important for school to use Zoom or MS Teams for learning cos students' participation is very important and it is better for students to see each other daily for their mental health.

  • Eeples on 15/09/2021 - 15:41

    Late comment:

    What of students who do not have access to computers or the internet?

    If there is meaningful teaching done online this would mean these students are increasingly disadvantaged.

    A home-pack is not equivalent to online teaching with a teacher.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/09/2021 - 12:58

    When you realise how RARE a really good teacher is - the great JOHN TAYLOR GATTO shares his wisdom Guerrilla Curriculum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8a9ayZrsZc

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