Sony/Google Adding Unremovable Ads to TVs after Purchase

Lcaitsith01 on 04/06/2021 - 16:47

What do people think about this?

I have a high end Sony TV (A8F, about 2.5 years old). Up until recently I've been very happy with it. However, the other day it suddenly started showing ads on the homescreen, which previously only listed my apps and content. These are not small - they take up the top third of the screen, which previously had my most frequently used apps on it. They are ads for services I don't use (e.g. shows on Disney+, which I have never used) and they often include content that I don't think is appropriate for my young kids - scenes from action movies, monsters etc.

There is no option to turn this off.

A bit of digging suggests that this is a change implemented by Google to its backend Android TV services app. This upgrade installed silently and I was never asked to consent to it (in fact, my Google account isn't even logged in on this TV at the moment). It comes with the euphemistic name "staff picks" as though some hipster at Google is giving me bespoke TV recommendations, rather than a Google algorithm monetising the crap out of my living room.

To me, this is unacceptable for a number of reasons:

  1. First and foremost, I do not want uninvited advertising in my living room.
  2. I never consented to this and would not consent if asked.
  3. I would never buy a TV with mandatory advertising, and this was not a cheap TV ($4k RRP on release).
  4. Not giving me the option to turn this off treats my property as Sony/Google's property. Google would be making money by pushing these ads using my hardware without my consent.

Sony would argue that this is Google, not them. But Sony sold me the TV and they chose to use Google as the OS. To me this is no different to someone coming into my house and physically modifying something that I own without my consent in a way that I can't fix.

It also strikes me as straight up misleading and deceptive conduct in that the prospect of forced advertising was never identified at the time I purchased the TV and it clearly would have changed my decision had it been made clear.

Thoughts? Or perhaps more usefully, does anyone have any trick to get rid of these ads?

Electrical & Electronics Sony TV UHD TV

Comments

  • Blue Cat on 04/06/2021 - 17:03
    +5

    I am pretty sure you "consented" to every update installation possible when you pressed "I agree to Ts&Cs" when starting up the TV for the first time. Probably nothing you can do.

    That is exactly why, when I am planning to buy a new """smart""" (blargh) PC, I will be hooking up my HTPC so I never have to see any ads ever again or deal with any of that """smart""" crap.

    • caitsith01 on 04/06/2021 - 17:52
      +5

      Nah, I'm one of those freaks that read the terms and conditions and I am confident there was nothing in there about me consenting to Google forcing ads onto my home screen. But yes, I'm sure they would argue that they have the right to arbitrarily change the terms and then do whatever they like…

      • Blue Cat on 04/06/2021 - 17:58
        +1

        Yeah, probably something like "Google reserves the right to change T&Cs at any time without prior notice" or some other bs… You can't win.

        • terrys on 05/06/2021 - 07:51
          +2

          IANAL however those terms have always come with " , to the extent permissible under applicable laws,", however there is a large budget behind the concept that "Googleland" is the territory whose laws apply…

  • jimbobaus on 04/06/2021 - 17:07
    +1

    My Sony updated yesterday and no ads at all.
    Saying that when i set my tv up and signed into my google account i turned everything off in permissions

    Saying that…
    it sounds like an Android issue… not a Sony one

  • brendanm on 04/06/2021 - 17:32
    +1

    I wouldn't be happy either. You need a network wide ad blocker, pi hole or similar may work.

    • caitsith01 on 04/06/2021 - 17:48
      +3

      I run pihole, actually - Google feeds this in through their servers so you can't block it.

      • brendanm on 04/06/2021 - 17:55
        +1

        There will be a way, just have to find where it's coming from to be able to block it.

        • caitsith01 on 04/06/2021 - 17:57
          +2

          The problem seems to be that it's fed through the same servers that supply non-advertising Google content. Some people have tried but so far there's no effective blocking. And even if you block it you still get placeholder ads for generic apps (E.g. YouTube) just without specific content.

          • brendanm on 04/06/2021 - 18:05
            +1

            @caitsith01: Very annoying. Perhaps someone will come up with modified software for it?

            Are you able to "downgrade" to a previous software version?

            • caitsith01 on 06/06/2021 - 17:56

              @brendanm: That seems to be the only option at the moment, but that's a pretty shitty solution because there was an upgraded version with no ads (which had a much better interface) which I can now never get back to - it's the 2-3 year old downgraded version with no ads or the current version with ads.

              • thedean on 07/06/2021 - 09:05
                +1

                @caitsith01: I run a samsung TV which has little add's on the bar at the bottom which I hate.
                My PiHole blocks them, however as soon as it's down for a moment they return, plus it puts it's stupid TV Plus app in the first position.
                I think I am blocking quite a few of Samsung's telemetry servers to achieve that though.

                • caitsith01 on 07/06/2021 - 11:11
                  +2

                  @thedean: I have a second TV which is a Samsung and it's insane how much traffic pihole blocks for that thing.

    • caitsith01 on 04/06/2021 - 17:50

      Thanks, but this is a different form of forced ads they have rolled out in the last few months. Different to what is described there.

  • apsilon on 04/06/2021 - 17:51

    Get an ad blocker for your network, something like a Pi-hole.

    EDIT: just saw you already run one. I'm sure it'd be possible to block them with some detective work.

    • lint on 07/06/2021 - 11:24

      From the sounds of it, this could be similar to the YouTube situation where it's a pain to block with DNS-based solutions like Pi-hole. I'm not familiar with Android TV but it could be possible to root the device and modify it to remove these ads.

      • apsilon on 07/06/2021 - 11:45

        I'm not familiar with Android TV either but I have no issue with Youtube and Pi-hole, or at least none that I've noticed. I do run several additional block lists though, not just Pi-hole out of the box so to speak.

        • lint on 07/06/2021 - 13:08

          Care to share what blocklists you're using to block YouTube ads? I can only ever block them reliably using browser-based adblocking.

          Thanks.

          • apsilon on 07/06/2021 - 15:17

            @lint: I think it's mostly the ticked Firebog lists: https://firebog.net

            I may have mixed other stuff in over time but don't recall.

  • mskeggs on 04/06/2021 - 17:53
    +5

    This type of thing was part of my argument to buy a dumb TV and add smart services myself. I think it stinks.
    But I lost the argument because a TV with no accompanying boxes and a single remote was deemed more worthy.

    • Member 0230 on 07/06/2021 - 21:29

      Did you find a good “dumb” tv solution? We haven’t done any research but are not far from needing to buy one. Recommendations welcome.

      • mskeggs on 08/06/2021 - 07:50

        I didn't end up with one, but there were options.

        • Member 0230 on 08/06/2021 - 08:50
          +1

          Sigh. I don't mind "smart" TVs so much, if they allowed me to completely and genuinely disable them and leave the choice of smarts to me. At this stage, I trust Google / Amazon powered smart TVs as far as I can throw them, not just from a privacy perspective, but also to avoid the situation the OP finds himself.

          • mskeggs on 08/06/2021 - 09:11
            +1

            @Member 0230: Plus the security exposure of devices that stop receiving updates. We had our last tv for 10 years.

            • Member 0230 on 08/06/2021 - 09:15

              @mskeggs: We're 100% of the same mind on this. We'll probably start research in a couple of months, happy to share what I find… if any.

            • Member 0230 on 24/06/2021 - 20:52
              +1

              @mskeggs: I get the sense that getting a half decent non-smart TV today is next to impossible.

              A Wired post recommends the best option is to simply "Keep Your TV Disconnected":

              This has another added benefit: If you keep your TV disconnected, it won't automatically update its firmware. Firmware updates can improve the experience, but I've heard (and experienced) more than enough horror stories of firmware updates reducing picture quality, introducing new bugs, and slowing down the overall experience. You're better off manually updating the firmware after you've given other people a chance to try it out, and keeping your TV disconnected allows you to do that.

              • mskeggs on 16/01/2022 - 15:21

                @Member 0230: Check this out for security risks:
                https://twitter.com/david3141593/status/1481993413843161092?…

                Smart Tv not connected to the internet. Bit of a narrow exploit, but not something I had even considered.

                • Member 0230 on 16/01/2022 - 15:45

                  @mskeggs: Oh wow. That is a surprise. I wonder if it makes a difference that we simply don't have a working external antenna and in fact haven't had free to air telly in the last 7 years?

                  Unless of course said telly has an internal, very excellent/sensitive antenna… 🧐

  • onetwothreefour on 04/06/2021 - 18:14
    +18

    This sounds worse than a fly in your screen.

    • caitsith01 on 04/06/2021 - 18:59
      +2

      I'd honestly prefer the fly.

      • GordonR on 05/06/2021 - 09:08
        +15

        Swap TVs with the fly guy!

  • plmko on 04/06/2021 - 18:16

    No ads for me.

    What's shown on the home screen is based on the types of apps you have.

    • caitsith01 on 04/06/2021 - 18:59

      No, it isn't. For example I get ads for Disney+ having never installed Disney+. It is clearly advertising.

      Here's an example:

      https://9to5google.com/2020/08/18/android-tv-homescreen-ads-…

      • plmko on 04/06/2021 - 19:25

        Nah here's mine

        Yes I know I've got a ribbon of ad bubbles, but that's from the Sony select app. If I deleted it then it's gone, but I Like it so it's there.

        • Techie4066 on 05/06/2021 - 13:04
          +1

          That's because you're on the older version of Android TV. The new update brings the new Google TV home launcher, with ads. It got rolled out to my cheap 2017 X80E, so yours is probably due for an upgrade soon. I really don't mind the recommendations at the top, I'd compare it to video recommendations shown on YouTube. It doesn't get in the way of anything, so I don't understand why it's something to complain about. No one spends a long time on the home screen.

          • caitsith01 on 05/06/2021 - 13:59

            @Techie4066:

            I really don't mind the recommendations at the top, I'd compare it to video recommendations shown on YouTube. It doesn't get in the way of anything, so I don't understand why it's something to complain about. No one spends a long time on the home screen.

            Disagree on two points:

            1. It's nothing like YouTube, because it promotes things that you are not subscribed to. It's not showing you stuff you might like from your existing content, it's pushing new products at you.

            2. It does get in the way, it takes up the top third of the screen which is where favourite apps used to be.

            • Techie4066 on 05/06/2021 - 15:51

              @caitsith01:

              It's nothing like YouTube, because it promotes things that you are not subscribed to.

              Since when did the YouTube algorithm recommend only the channels you're subscribed to? That's big news to me!

              It does get in the way, it takes up the top third of the screen which is where favourite apps used to be.

              It takes up 1/3 of the screen, but it's one click to exit and you spend maximum 1 minute on the home screen. In fact, I never use it. I use the discover button and have shortcuts to apps I use.

              • caitsith01 on 06/06/2021 - 17:55
                +1

                @Techie4066: You are clearly being disingenuous. You appear to speak English and so would understand the difference between 'subscribing' on YouTube and actually subscribing to, say, Disney+ in exchange for money.

                • Techie4066 on 06/06/2021 - 17:58

                  @caitsith01: Learn something. Read what you originally said, and reconsider how I responded.

  • Halo375 on 04/06/2021 - 18:24
    +4

    There is a way to fix this and it involves uninstalling the latest update to some of your android tv apps and then turning off auto updates to stop it coming back. I did it once and it worked however Google patched it and the software updated to advertising again. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.lifehacker.com.au/2020/0…

    • caitsith01 on 05/06/2021 - 14:00

      That seems to be the only option that might work. Which is b.s. because there was an intermediate version of the app which looked and worked better than the factory stock version but had no ads, and now there is no way to get back to that.

  • Bystander on 04/06/2021 - 19:57
    +5

    I had the same thing happen a few months ago with my Voda TV box. It seriously, SERIOUSLY, pissed me off.

    As mentioned by Halo375 I uninstalled updates and turned off auto updates. No more ads for the last few months. I'm hoping it will stay that way.

    • Paul B on 05/06/2021 - 10:23
      +2

      Yeah super annoying because there might be some useful updates missed because I don't want those shit ads either

  • FoxJump on 04/06/2021 - 21:12
    +3

    Motorola once removed a feature from the phone during an android update and didnt tell me about it until it was too late.

    They said, it's Google
    I said, no, it's you turning that feature off in one the of android config files because it works fine on another phone with the same android os version

    I said, this is BS, I buy a device with features and you remove them silently!

    Then Motorola sent me a new phone of the same type with the un-upgraded os and with feature intact.

    I was happy

    Then…. One day a month later - I accidentally stepped on it and killed it

    Bittersweet

    • Techie4066 on 05/06/2021 - 13:07
      +2

      Now that is unexpectedly good customer service.

  • HeyPapito on 05/06/2021 - 02:07
    +6

    change your dns in the wifi settings on your tv to

    dns 1: 94.140.14.14
    dns 2: 94.140.15.15

    those dns will block ads and tracking, they are provided by adguard

    or setup NextDNS if you want to customise what gets blocked https://nextdns.io/

    • caitsith01 on 05/06/2021 - 13:55

      I already have pihole running. These are not normal ads, they are baked into the Android TV app.

  • tommmys on 05/06/2021 - 09:44

    I deleted my google play app from my 4yo sony/android TV and that worked

    Hopefully this works for you

    EDIT: a55hole design from Sony/android. I hate android tv so much

    • Techie4066 on 05/06/2021 - 13:08
      -1

      Sony is obliged to provide Google's updates to their products. They can't pick and choose what to roll out, unless things get really out of hand they might switch to another OS.

      • tommmys on 05/06/2021 - 13:24
        +1

        Agreed but no one forced sony to use androidtv as their operation system.

        • Techie4066 on 05/06/2021 - 13:40
          -1

          Sony is bad at software. The alternative was the now deprecated Firefox OS.

  • RecklessMonkeys on 05/06/2021 - 10:35
    +1

    This kind of thing is why i don't have a smart TV

    • Techie4066 on 05/06/2021 - 13:09

      That's a really poor reason against a smart TV. Ads on Android are never intrusive nor ugly, this isn't any different. Samsung is the worst culprit for ads and I would never buy another Samsung product. LG and Sony seem fine.

      • caitsith01 on 05/06/2021 - 13:54
        +4

        There shouldn't be ads at all! Not if you are paying for the TV. I don't care how intrusive or not they are, they just should not be there.

        • Techie4066 on 05/06/2021 - 17:36
          -6

          Google needs to monetise some aspects of the software to continue providing it without continued costs to the consumer.

          • caitsith01 on 06/06/2021 - 17:54

            @Techie4066: So are you cool if they just decide one day to force ads onto the home screen of your Android phone?

            • Techie4066 on 06/06/2021 - 18:01
              -2

              @caitsith01: No. They monetise Android in many other ways. TV, not so much. Not a whole lot of personally attributable aggregate data can be collected and used to tailor services and target ads. Clearly many people here don't know about this.

              • caitsith01 on 06/06/2021 - 18:02

                @Techie4066: Of course we know about it, it doesn't mean we consent to it.

                But they provide Android for your phone for 'free' so why shouldn't they 'monetise' your home screen? There is zero philosophical difference, and your phone is actually a lot cheaper and more disposable than a TV.

                Your argument seems to boil down to "Google has the right to manipulate your hardware if that helps them make money", which I fundamentally reject. That might be the case if that was the way the product was offered UP FRONT, but it wasn't here. I bought a TV with no ads, now I have a TV with ads.

                • Techie4066 on 06/06/2021 - 18:05
                  -2

                  @caitsith01:

                  There is zero philosophical difference

                  There are hundreds of flavours of Android there, each with inherently unique purposes and servicing various functions. I reject your assertion that all devices running on Android must operate the same in terms of advertising. In fact, the system customised by the manufacturer in my car runs on Android code.

                  Regardless, this is none of my problem. My X80E has the same tiny ads as the subject of your complaint, and it's a non-issue. Raise it with Google.

      • RecklessMonkeys on 05/06/2021 - 17:33

        Is it? Sorry.

      • lint on 07/06/2021 - 11:34

        While I hate that little ad box on my Samsung TV, it doesn't take up anywhere near as much space as what Google's done here. And it disappears completely if you block the domain with Pi-hole or similar.

        Can't say about their phones or other products.

  • BargainWizard on 05/06/2021 - 14:52

    this is what i did go to the google store -> manage apps and games and turn off automatic updates then go to settings on the tv -> apps -> "android tv home" app and uninstall it then it will pop up a message about reinstalling the factory default "android tv home" app that came with the tv click yes and you will have your old much loved home screen back
    but the only thing is you will have to check the updates page once in a while and update the apps manually 1 by 1 and just dont update android tv home

  • Ozcelt on 05/06/2021 - 14:58
    +5

    OP, I sympathise. I'd be seriously pissed off. In the absence of any technical solution (which seems to be the case), I'd be mad enough to float this to Choice magazine - they might be prepared/interested to do a piece that would publicly embarrass Sony. Also, in my view, your "quiet enjoyment" of the item you have purchased has been deliberately undermined and/or removed by Sony (Google is their supplier of services - it's up to Sony to fix this, IMO). It would seem to me that this must contravene Australian Consumer protection laws and/or regulations. I would seek advice from your State govt. consumer affairs office or ombudsman. It's a lot of money to spend to give Google a free advertising hoarding in your living room - and screening unregulated, adult content to children (which also may be illegal).
    Anyway, just some thoughts…..I'd be outraged!!

    • BargainWizard on 05/06/2021 - 15:04

      its not sony who are to blame its a google "creature feature" that affects all google tvs and even the nvidia shield like i mentioned above the only way to restore the original home screen is to disable google store automatic updates and uninstall the "android tv home" app which restores the original factory default version of the android tv home app which was fine before the ad infested update

    • caitsith01 on 05/06/2021 - 15:25
      +2

      Totally agree that this is Sony's problem - companies like Sony blaming companies like Google is a huge part of the issue here. Google will never listen to any one consumer but they might pay attention if major TV brands started pushing back about this rubbish.

      I do intend to take it up with consumer affairs, but step one would be to at least give Sony the chance to address (which obviously they won't do).

      And yeah… it's pretty much like Google hanging an advertising sign up inside my house. Totally unacceptable. It's depressing to me that anyone would not have a huge problem with this.

  • OzHunterNSW on 05/06/2021 - 15:00

    I believe there was a class action against this intrusion, particularly with high end users, and the culprits were made to delete the ads.
    Look into it.

  • lew380 on 05/06/2021 - 21:28
    -1

    Get used to it, your in bed with Google and they like to fart….

  • mooreshady on 06/06/2021 - 10:47

    So which software you can use for your Sony tv without ads? Can an Nvidia shield, fire sticks,chrome cast etc do the trick? I am newbie to smart tv I watch my stuffs on laptop with big monitors

  • carlJack on 06/06/2021 - 15:43

    I have been getting the same in my TCL tv. But it doesnt bother me.

  • p1 ama on 06/06/2021 - 16:24
    -2

    They are ads for services I don't use (e.g. shows on Disney+, which I have never used) and they often include content that I don't think is appropriate for my young kids - scenes from action movies, monsters etc.

    I feel sorry for your kids, action movies and monsters were a highlight of my childhood

    First and foremost, I do not want uninvited advertising in my living room.

    Seriously though, this just sounds a bit ridiculous to me. It’s not like advertising on TV is a new thing. Haven’t you ever watched TV?

    How is this advertising different to advertising you see during a footy match?

    I get the dislike of advertising, i just don’t understand if you’re being dense on purpose. Advertising in living rooms via TV has probably been going on since before you or I were even born…

    • caitsith01 on 06/06/2021 - 18:00

      I feel sorry for your kids, action movies and monsters were a highlight of my childhood

      One of them is two years old, champ, a bit young for that sort of thing. I feel sorry for your kids if you let two year olds watch scary adult content.

      Seriously though, this just sounds a bit ridiculous to me. It’s not like advertising on TV is a new thing. Haven’t you ever watched TV?

      How is this advertising different to advertising you see during a footy match?

      I can't tell if you're actually serious here.

      1. I actually don't watch commercial TV because I dislike blaring ads and also, WTF is there to watch on commercial TV anyway?

      2. The whole point of commercial broadcast TV is that it is 'free' in exchange for which it has ads. My TV was certainly NOT free, it cost a lot of money. If Google wants to give me back $3000+ I'll consider whether I'm cool with them forcing ads into my living room.

      3. This is not during any particular broadcast, it's the first thing I see when I turn on a piece of hardware I own. I have no option to avoid it unless I want to simply not use my TV at all.

      You seem like a charmer - I'd suggest you are the one being 'dense' if you can't see the difference between choosing to watch a particular channel which has ads, and someone stealthily modifying a piece of hardware you own to force you to see advertising whether you choose to or not.

  • FrugalDealHunter on 06/06/2021 - 17:34
    +1

    I had the same issue. I got an Apple TV which loads on tv boot so never see Sony screens anymore.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/06/2021 - 17:34
    +1

    I uninstalled the updates from my home app on my Sony smart tv, and also disabled auto updates. Adverts gone.

  • darkchoc on 06/06/2021 - 17:53
    +1

    Remove Android TV Homescreen Ads guide:

    1. To disable ads from Android TV homescreen, open Android TV’s Settings page and move to “Apps” and then scroll down a bit and click on “See All Apps“.

    2. Again, scroll down to the bottom and click on “Show System Apps“.

    3. Now, look for “Android TV Home” in the list and open it.

    4. Here, click on “Uninstall Updates” and you are almost done.

    5. Now to stop Android TV to automatically update the Home app, you need to disable automatic updates from the Play Store. Open the Play Store and move to your profile in the top-right corner.

    6. Here, open “Settings” and click on “Auto-update apps”.

    7. Finally, select “Don’t auto-update apps” and you are done. Now, the Google Home app will not update itself and you won’t get homescreen ads on your Android TV. That said, keep in mind, from now onwards, you need to manually update other apps on the Play Store.

    • caitsith01 on 06/06/2021 - 18:04

      Thanks - this seems to be the only 'fix', downgrade from the version of the interface I've been using for at least a year to the relatively shitty stock one. GG Google.

      Interestingly I wasn't even logged into a Google account when this 'upgrade' happened.

  • terrys on 08/06/2021 - 08:39
    +1

    It's not just TV's. I attempted to watch a YouTube via a first model Chromecast last night and was interrupted twice in the firsts five minutes by an ad for some garbage - and after the second interruption the clip commenced replaying without video, just a black screen. Also the last few days, if I queue up videos to cast, after a while the phone loses the link to playback and I can neither pause nor interact with the playback from the initiating unit or others on that network. I do not get that same problem with the soon to be worthless ABC I-view.

    Then again, every YouTube update since Gingerbread has broken something or moved settings so it is hard to find them.

  • Qwert331 on 12/06/2021 - 17:54

    If you can sideload apps (ie put the apk on a USB stick + install some file manager app from the tvs playstore) also go to allow apps from other sources etc then perhaps try DNS66 -

    https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.jak_linux.dns66/

    Dns 66 has been my personal savings grace on my android device I NEVER see ads - including in all those ad supported free apps. And while using browsers ie no sites show ads either. Its a genius apk. I

    By the way I've got this installed on my foxtel now box at the moment so it is possible to install a VPN based dns blocker on Android TV but I'm not sure if it works because I don't have any apps serving ads anyway. I use Newpipe legacy for ad free youtube etc . I'll go see if I can find some ads….

  • Qwert331 on 12/06/2021 - 17:59

    Also: (profanity) Google!

    I chose an LG WebOS TV specifically because they have don't run android.

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