Would love to buy new car next year, but the choice of affordable EV in Oz is non existence.
So I am keeping my 14yo car for time being.
Agree with the article below:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-30/nissan-says-australia…
Anyone Delaying Upgrading New Car Due to Lack of Affordable EV?
punter1 on 30/05/2021 - 11:24
Comments
It averages to be <$300 a year in rego. Like you're calling them brainless but you're probably the same person who'd willfully accept the EV incentives of $3000 towards what is essentially a luxury vehicle.
yes they are brainless as are people who believe a vehicle can be a 'Luxury Vehicle' - 'Luxury car tax' is a scam that was made to protect the Australian car industry that doesn't exist and hasnt for a long time now. - it was a ineffective and inefficient tax
If you dont care about the environment im not here to change your mind but anyone who thinks any car is a 'Luxury' is an idiot im sorry but how do you assess if a car is a luxury? once upon a time a car with power steering would of been a 'luxury'? if a car is made in Germany then it is Luxury but if it is made in Korea it isnt? the government have put a dollar value on Luxury car tax so rubs and peons think those cars are for rich people but essentially it is a nothing tax that the sheep support - like the majority of taxes Australians are forced to pay by the state and federal government
Ill add this because a car runs on electricity not petrol that makes it a Luxury car?
They should be taxed just like ICE cars are taxed fuel excise.
If it's not more expensive than ICE overall, and you're doing it for the environment, then what's the issue? Oh that's right, you thought an EV would be cheaper. That's more important than the environmental benefit.
Fuel excise shouldn't exist or rego both are used to 'pay for roads' however the road workers are the most over-paid and under qualified people (in Victoria) if you're getting $60-70 to hold a slow and go sign then clearly the government arent using tax dollars effectively
Not once in my whole life have I looked around the Victorian roads and thought "hmm it's looking a bit empty around here, I think we'd better subsidise some more vehicles to fill up these these empty streets a bit more fully". Perhaps you can have a subsidy for a nice bicycle to help you reduce 2 cars to 1?
I don't care what your vehicle is powered with. It's already bad enough that the majority subsidises taxis, freight operators, and tradies to disproportionately use and degrade the network assets and efficiency.
I dont disagree with you Bob ive be all for safe and a bigger push to people riding there bikes to work and other places.
I see an EV tax as the first baby-step towards fairer road user charging. As I'm not Lindsay Fox, I think this is a positive step…
Also keen for a surcharge as part of the TAC component, as an additional cost for shitboxes that are more likely to cause injury
@BobLim: Dan Andrews has come out strongly against road user charging, then he goes and implements it on EVs. I don't know what to think of Road User Charging, I think it is probably an effective scheme but at the same time I don't think it's equitable - professionals often have the luxury of mode choice (train/car/bike) but blue collar often don't - think of tradies and factory workers with terrible public transport options.
I'm sick of planners/politicians using price to create a two tier system. Take CityLink in Melbourne as an example, in my experience you either are wealthy enough that you always use it, or you always avoid it. People don't make rational decisions based on their actual situation, they settle into routines. The wealthy don't notice the cost and the poor get stuck with a second tier system.
Road user charging is bad policy that further increases inequality. It is built on the presumption that driving is a choice rather than a need.
Agree with you, along with no incentives for EVs.
The luxury car tax is a threshold. EVs are not luxury vehicles.
Would love one but barely any competition here means the prices are $65k minimum on road.
Heaps of EV models are not being sold here because of the lack of incentives and lack of take up.
Some euro countries hit 40 to 70% EV purchases in 2020, in Australia it was 0.7.Manufacturers are not willing to take the risk while we have a govt who refuses to place carbon targets, keeps pushing coal and gas, and claim EVs will ruin the weekend.
If you need a small car, the Hyundai ionic plug-in hybrid seems like a reasonable car. Plug in for EV range of 65km or something, but if you run out of battery the car uses ICE.
https://www.hyundai.com/au/en/cars/eco/ioniq/plug-in-hybrid
Claims to get 1.1L per 100km and costs about $50k. Might be a reasonable compromise until EV chargers are more widespread. No range issue if you want to go on a longer trip either.
If I put it on charge every night, it would easily handle my daily commute (<25km total). Would only use fuel on weekends for longer trips.
We might see an affordable EV if India's Renault Kwid/KZE/Dacia Spring ever comes here. Right now the cheapest is the MG, at $40k+ while the same model ICE MG is half that.
I will drive my 2002 Commodore (working well, no rust) until they take away my 50c feed-in tariff, then I will have a look at what is available.
50с, which vendor you with?
Australian governments (both Labor and Liberal) are doing nothing to support or encourage EVs.
It appears that Labor is the biggest "say one thing and then do the opposite"
In fact both the SA and VIC Labor governments want to tax EVs per km to make up for the loss of excise tax on petrol.
How ridiculous!Where is the EV charging infrastructure being built?
Where are the Federal and/or State rebates/subsidies
Where is the exception from GST?
Where are the FREE and/or unlimited parking incentives (similar to disability scheme) from councils and state governments?
Where is the forward planning for EVs?EVs in Australia have NO FUTURE
There shouldn’t be any subsidies, exception from GST, or free parking for EVs. They got that right.
Im addressing the posters question my friend and in particular the attached link..
"Global car manufacturer says Australia is failing to lure electric vehicle importers"This is what they are doing in USA and California in particular
Yeah I know, but I agree with the stance of the government here.
I disagree with your statement that EVs have no future in Australia though. Incentives or not, I think they’ll account for around 50% of new car sales by 2030 anyways.
@HeWhoKnows: There isn’t a need for either. Prices will come down anyways, and the predominant infrastructure needed is a plug in the garage.
@jssr13: Read the article
OP is talking about affordability in the immediate future. Not in 10 years time@HeWhoKnows: I expect the market to be flooded with cheap Chinese EVs in the next few years. And you would expect prices to fall in the next few years anyways.
@jssr13: Mate Its very evident that you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about!
Have you been to China? (Ive been twice)
Do you have any idea about the Chinese automotive market (I certainly do).
I'm telling you that ain't going to happen. No way
The Chinese cant even satisfy demand from their domestic market with petrol driven cars.
Thats not going to change for many years to come.
i dont think they have any EVs in production and no infrastructure either.
That's not to say they wont go that way.
Petrol bikes are now banned in some cities. Only electric motorcycles are allowed.
But you don't see the international market flooded with electric motorcycles made in China?And go look at the American experience, particularly California (just as i have done)
In future don't embarrass yourself with such far flung comments.
Do your research first and travel the world!
@HeWhoKnows: People should not be paid to buy cars. Isn't the total cost of ownership and environmental benefit enough of an incentive?
@lunchbox99: You miss the point
I'm pointing out what has worked in the USA to promote use of EVs by making them more affordable (as OP has asked)
Even in the USA, the land of cheap cars, they need such incentives for EVs amazingly enough.@HeWhoKnows: I'm of the opinion that the govt. shouldnt be promoting EVs. They shouldnt be picking winners and losers. Look what happens when they try to subsidise LPG or solar panels or anything.
The EV car should rise or fall on its own merits.
Infrastructure is possibly a different matter? I'd be ok with that as govts should be 'building' things.
However saying that the govt.wastes a lot of money on spanish german submarines to the tune of $90 billion.
I'm not a fan of the LNP subsidiing Tesla for example.
I'm ok with the US govt. subsiding Tesla as a US Company.
If a govt. wants to help the aust environement and move to nuclear power and windfarms and solar batteries etc. then I would be ok with it but I think subsiding EVs as an end step is kind of a waste. Not that the LNP would ever do that anyway lol.
If EVs in Australia have no future, then we are in trouble, because most major car companies are phasing out ICE engines in the next 5-10 years.
Yes, I am going to wait for a Hybrid Pajero Sports, even if the range is just 95km on the battery that would be great for my normal week, only need to use other fuel on holidays.
Chris
That sounds like a good compromise. Although, appears in the UK that the fuel economy of many PHEVs is worse than a non hybrid because drivers don’t plug in often enough.
I want a phev which can power a camper/worksite full of stuff like the F150 powerboost (in regular not yank tank size).
Have you seen F150 lightning?
How about 100kWh+ of energy and multiple 240v sockets sound to you? :-)Sounds great! We should probably see those kind of ev in 2-3 years
I am one of those who are genuinely waiting. Wanted to buy a stinger (first new car) though would prefer to buy a electric for environmental grounds (and the acceleration doesnt hurt). I dont want something slow but sporty and theres pretty much no choice in this price bracket currently..
You could buy the Stinger for me if you don’t want it:)
Why dont I just give you $70K then?
I would blow it on a Mustang or Stinger anyways.
Australia isn't a market that gets to "pick and choose" what vehicles will be offered here. If comparable markets are all EVs, then that's what we're getting whether we like it or not.
The car industry here would be well advised to keep their mouths shut, lest we implement the 'corporate average fuel economy' method of "luring them in".
Suggest you read the article linked by OP
Its actually much worse than that
The poor incentives by the govt put me off Tesla EVs. Sorry but not considering any other manufacturers other than Tesla.
It doesn't help when povo pack of the Model 3 isn't competitively priced here.
Opted for a Prado in the end which was cheaper, reasonably good mileage on diesel and oodles of space compared to a Model 3.
I'll definitely bite tho once prices are akin or close to the US market.
Sorry but not considering any other manufacturers other than Tesla.
Erm why? I am not considering Tesla myself due to hating a single touchscreen for all controls and ridiculous option costs
Better long term manufacturer support. Software has decent features too despite the limited UX design.
I like the design and performance after sitting in an S and 3.
Better long term manufacturer support
That remains to be seen. Hasn’t been around that long yet and highly likely to be bought out by someone else when Muskie gets bored of it.
@Euphemistic: Tesla is focused on supporting its entire EV range.
Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc still have a large range of ICE vehicles compared to EVs and logically won't be focusing their support on EVs as much as their ICE vehicles for the time being, until demand for their EV models increase.
And Tesla is losing millions every year!
They’ve posted their first profit earlier this year.
Better long term manufacturer support.
Not sure Tesla has evidenced this.
Software has decent features too despite the limited UX design.
Im not sure what 'software' features you are getting at? Personally my must-haves is Android auto, 360 camera and some other bits and peices like that.
I like the design and performance after sitting in an S and 3.
Yep, thats a very personal thing - I dont like the empty cabin except for a large touchscreen at all
Not sure Tesla has evidenced this.
Despite how old the original Model S is, it still receives updates.
Im not sure what 'software' features you are getting at?
Continual improvements to Autopilot, driving aids, etc
Sorry what option costs? The website only lets you pick paint, wheels and a full self driving. I don't see how these make or break a car for you.
Oh, I just checked - sorry I looked a while ago and there were more options (not the model 3).
Just the single touchscreen then is the issue. I hate cars who dont have hard buttons for stuff you use all the time, they arent the only company thats doing it.
@Franc-T: Ahh ok. No worries. I do remember they had more options a few years ago. There were some air filter options and what not. I also looked at them a few years back but just have not pulled the trigger on them yet.
Right now I do agree, while I do really like the touch screen on my current car, buttons for radio stations, and more importantly buttons for air con are something that I would feel strange not having. My current car still has those buttons, it's easy to adjust while I'm driving.
I'll give it some more time and look into test driving an EV (High chance Tesla) in 2025 when it's time for a new car. Who knows, maybe by then I'll get used to the idea of not having buttons. I mean it's just for Radio and Air con, maybe I can live without it.
@MrMoo: Oh, dont get me wrong I am not against touchscreens - I put a touchscreen in my Monaro for example. I just dont want a touch screen for controls I will be using when driving (aircon/radio etc) as its distracting and you cant find where to push by touch alone.
@Franc-T: O yes don't worry I totally get where you are coming from.
For example when I'm using apple car play in my car, It's a touch screen but when I'm driving it's hard to precisely hit the right button, and sometimes I find myself pressing the wrong section and having to press it again, which also means I need to look at the screen and double check what is going on.
Imagine doing that when setting the air con or changing stations. It can and would lead to more accidents IMO.
So you bought a diesel while you are environmentally concerned enough to consider a Tesla… sort of a bit weird isnt it!!
No. I wasn’t considering a Tesla because I was environmentally concerned. I was considering one for the cheaper running costs.
If electric vehicles were financially viable some 10 years ago we'd have a thriving second hand market and wouldnt be the dumping ground for cheaper ICE vehicles.
So yes
Financially its still a barrier
Still we're a few years off from parity with ICE vehicles, but its coming, and when it does it'll be grand. Cant wait for my suv to do 0 to 100 in 5 seconds
If ford could bring their new F150 Lightening to AU market it would be a no brainer, massive towing capacity, great off road, extremely fast acceleration for the weight in fact the fastest ford F150 currently and most of all great value compared to Tesla. I love Tesla cars but only certain models I dislike the model 3 because there’s no cockpit centred info it’s all in the middle dash between the driver and passenger and I find that distracting plus they look ugly from the ones I’ve seen driving around no way they look 80-100K worth. EV’s are terribly priced here in AU compared to other countries and only ACT and VIC actually have incentives on buying them if you even wan’t to call them that. Sure you don’t pay certain fees on new EV purchases compared to new petrol cars but even with those fees taken off you’re still paying way more when you can get so much more car for the same price minus the EV side of things.
I’ll keep buying fossil until EV’s actually make sense to buy, all this “but you don’t need to pay for petrol and as much servicing as you do with fossil fuel cars” only makes sense if you keep it for a certain time frame to see those savings and you drive it enough to get back the fuel savings. For less than the price of a Tesla you can buy a new fully loaded Audi RS3 Carbon Edition Quattro or many other high end models, no matter which way you cut it unless you’re die hard greeny or Elon fan EV’s make absolutely no sense price wise right now until we see decent subsidy here in AU.
If ford could bring their new F150 Lightening to AU market it would be a no brainer
Or better still, build a ranger sized version. F150 is too big for most aussies.
Vic has an incentive to buy….and a disincentive as you will be paying per klm sigh.
We just bought 2 new cars, an Audi & Range Rover. Figured it would be the last cars we buy with ICE, so made it enjoyable.
In another 5 years time car dealers will be very different with their offerings and I’m happy with that. By then EV should be near 1000km a charge, magnetic charge should be a thing and reliability and build quality should improve too.
There is some truth to this. By 2030/35 the govts and manufacturers have committed to phasing out ICE anyway.
The Aust, govt doesnt matter in this regard as we do not make cars so if the EU, CN and JP decide this is the way we go, then this is the way we go.
So you have 10-15yrs to go.
You bought a new Range Rover, and you live in Noble Park? Priorities bro.
Lol love this comment!
Drug dealers have to be near their clientele
I don't want to fight strata on the charging. That's where the government should be investing free charging for strata buildings
I do agree with you but it becomes a chicken and egg thing,
I have a lightblub in my garage but not a socket… CLEARLY the strata is happy to pay for a light but they dont want to pay for your electricity use.
I would love to have a even a power socket in my garage but they wont even do that.
So then how many people have EVs in my area? I think none due to the fact you cant charge in a unit situation. No one has an EV, no one needs charging even if it comes at a cost to the owner as they then need to add infrastructure.
And most units here are only in the 10-20 unit per block type so medium density.
Then how do you manage this on a high density like those with 50-400 units???
Its a nightmare.
That's where we need government intervention not free rego.
Can't buy one if you can't charge it
Battery swap like what NIO or Ample are offering?
I reckon if they can de-couple the battery from the EV's purchasing cost/turn it into Battery as a Service then the price will drop, improve EV uptake and drive business to the battery swappers…
I've heard a few people say this. But it ought to be an easy problem to overcome - a small smart meter built into the socket should be cheap and easy to engineer. With it linked to your personal electiricity account, not the building's.
Even just cheap government support through building and wiring standards etc would make this sort of thing possible. But that support aint there, especially in Oz - as we see with EVs.
It should be pretty simple to develop Bluetooth Smart sockets which require you to login and prepay to enable and then it bills your account.
Add Bluetooth support in the car and it's quite simple for them to automatically negotiate, and the car is also verifying that the socket isn't scamming it with fake metering.
Just needs the market to do it. Really needs Tesla to lead the way and release Tesla Smart Socket.
The cabling for a carpark is pretty tough though, every night will have most cars wanting maximum juice so that's a big cable and issues with buildings lacking the grid capacity to handle it.
every night will have most cars wanting maximum juice so that's a big cable and issues with buildings lacking the grid capacity to handle it.
This is an obstacle to overcome. I suspect that chargers and vehicles will need to become smart users of power. Ie the charger will give full power when the grid says it’s ok. The vehicle will learn your usage patterns and optimise charging around your usage eg it might know you sleep in on Sunday and so save the charge for early Sunday mrinjg rather than as soon as you plug in.
Tesla 3 is very tempting. But the at least 15 mins charging time is holding me back. Need better solution on charging station. Even better if can make it wireless charging!
How many trips >500km do you take without having a 15 minute break somewhere along them?
15mins? Time how long refueling, toilet and a drink takes on your next long road trip. Every time I’m on a long trip 15mins every couple of hours is a welcome stretch for the legs.
One of the good things about electric charging is that you plug in and walk away while it charges. So you plug in, go and get a drink etc and when you are back unplug and off you go.
It won’t be that long before charging plugs robotically connect to the vehicle when you pull up at a charge point.
I'm puzzled.
- I usually need a toilet break every 200-300km anyways, so a top-up on a decent DC charger is around 20-30mins for a Tesla.
- With kids, a stop is around 40 mins, easily…
- Without kids, a quick break: plug in, toilet, grab coffee/snack, look at my phone, 30 mins gone.
- Without kids, lunch break: usually 1h. You can charge any EV to 100% in that time.
- Ultra-short break on long trips, hop in a servo to grab a drink or something, < 5mins, no charging required because my car has around 450km real-world 115km/h range.
Auto pilot: it is the messiah they have all be waiting for.
It’s not the messiah, it’s a slightly crashy ride.
You can only charge if there is a fast charger around. Tesla, Porsche and Hyundai/Kia all have fast charging capability though not all will have suitable chargers available.
Affordable EV's will happen when manufacturers provide EV's in their standard product range. Some manufacturers already have a range for overseas buyers but refuse to supply Australia because the government won't punish them for selling ICE (cough ahem VW). So until the government does something to force manufacturers to sell electric here there won't be much change in affordability.
There are some really cool electric cars like the Honda E which aren't sold in Australia.
vw has been clear with their motive for lesser or no hybrids in au market due to low quality of fuel.
VW's arrogance is breathtaking (figuratively and literally). Premium and ultra premium fuels are available virtually everywhere and most euro cars run on premium fuel now. How VW can take the high ground on high sulphur fuel is astonishing. I mean this coming from a company that cheated on its pollution tests to enable high polluting diesels into the market.
Every manufacturer is commenting to sway opinion to line their own pockets.
I absolutely am waiting for the chance to buy an EV. My issue is my landlord. I'm in a unit complex with underground assigned parking. The landlord flat refuses to even discuss potential options even after I make it clear I'm paying for every single cent and that its an asset that will add value to future owners when I seller rent it out. My electricity meter is on the same wall about 15 m away from my car park too but nope won't even discuss it. So that my issue id have to charge it away from my house and since I work from home I cant charge it at work…
Other issue is the massive price but I feel I could justify it as I would likely keep an electric car for much longer than my current petrol ones.My brother delivers Fuel for a living even he want to buy an electric car.
He delivers Fuel for a living….
There are currently no real utility's on the market within reusable practice range… Yet.
The f150 lightning I believe will be a massive catalyst to utility electrification.
The Cyber truck is just too different at the moment the f150 if they import that into oz will fly out the door I reckon.Keep in mind, your LL is most likely concerned about the responsibility of an EV charger at home. If it fails, he/she will have to pay. What if it was vandalised? etc etc
Just another headache for most LLs.
It's not much effort tho to recharge at a charging station.
f150 if they import that into oz will fly out the door I reckon.
Except it’ll probably cost $200k
I suspect your LL just don't want the headache when dealing with strata to get the thing installed. Fair enough if it's a house and your LL being weird to refuse it but it's a different thing when it's an apartment - unless he owns the entire complex…
Problem is cost of upgrading as most people have single phased power. You could charge if you don't use anything else in the house otherwise might be dreadfully slow.
Years ago I suggested a solution to this issue of how to put a low enough cost EV on the market that people could afford it as a second/city car. You only put about 150-200 kms worth of batteries in it. That would well and truly cover normal day to day city use. It would make EVs much smaller lighter and cheaper.
But then you also build a trailer that has another couple of hundred kilometres worth of batteries under the tray, and offer it for sale or rental at sites on the highways leaving cities and big towns. Someone heading on a trip would rent one and hook it on to give them enough range to get where they were going, and once there would quickly charge up the small battery in their EV, and swap their battery trailer for another fully charged one. NRMA/RACV/etc vehicles would have one available in case someone in an EV was stranded with a depleted battery. Instead of having to be towed to a charging station, and waiting there until you had enough charge to get home, the trailer could be plugged into the EV to get it home under its own power. If people owned multiple EVs that could also have one battery trailer for use for trips, and for use as a trailer.
I know of an electric race team that uses a van full of batteries to recharge their race car. It wouldnt be hard to set a mobile recharge station.
There's Nissan Leaf and MG for about $40k …
For a second car to and from work for most office workers a second hand 1st gen Leaf is going for $15k with about 80km range. Yes I am aware of people moaning about air cooled batteries.
For some people who have under cover parking at the office (the cars are mostly in white also) it might make sense.
Years ago I suggested a solution to this issue of how to put a low enough cost EV on the market that people could afford it as a second/city car. You only put about 150-200 kms worth of batteries in it
Like Renault Zoe, didn't work. People want to drive around with a big battery just in case they feel like going on a 600km round trip but doesn't want to pick up the cost of having that back up.
The Zoe was probably a couple of years too early like the original leaf or imiev. Little bit too expensive for the range as well.
Also doesn’t help that the marketers are doing their best to focus on massive range because joe public doesn’t understand that every morning you start with a full battery and that in reality most people own two cars, and one just does city duties well less that 200km per day.
Nothing to say about cars…
I have an electric mountain bike (Bafang Ultra) with two batteries. I use it to do my grocery shopping, especially during the lockdown here in Melbourne.
Obviously not a car replacement, but it's been absolutely wonderful for the situation we're in. Now that I'm sticking to the local area.
Of course you can take it on the train or a car to extend your range. I have a campervan with solar and a generator so I can recharge when I'm away from mains power.
The bicycle makes life far easier than taking my huge diesel van to the shops around the corner.
Cars are a passion of mine and I have quite a few of them including a Tesla Model X P100d, + Merc G63 for family use, and a few sports/supercars
FWIW, I never find myself picking up the Tesla key for any occasion - whether its to pop down to the shops, school run, daily commute or longer distance/Sunday drives. The G63 drinks petrol like its insulin to a diabetic, is grossly impractical, won't even fit in many car parks, but just makes you "love it", like an imperfect family dog
Technologically and straight line performance for the Tesla is great - but in my experience, has zero character and does nothing to stir the soul. I am looking to sell it now and just have a Kia Sorento as a daily runabout.
I have quite a few of them including a Tesla Model X P100d, + Merc G63 for family use, and a few sports/supercars
I never find myself picking up the Tesla key for any occasion
[G63] won't even fit in many car parks,
I am looking to sell it now and just have a Kia Sorento as a daily runabout.
Sureeeee
Up to you whether you want to believe it or not. I'm anonymous here afterall
Newsflash: there are people on ozbargain who have more money than you (and presumably me).
I buy new cars and keep them a decade. So far, so good. My current car is on its 6th year and I don't know if EVs will be affordable and good enough to replace my ICE car in around four years time. The real world range of most affordable options is around 250km. I need 400 minimum, and the price tag needs to be around $35k or less for a small car.
Hopefully Peugeot will shake up the market with their EV's due to arrive from next year, but I don't like the way their pricing is going at the moment. In another 5 years time I reckon EV's will be viable and well priced. I'm not one to buy brand new cars but would consider it if the right EV came along.
Well in Victoria our brainless government is taxing EV drivers now….when the incentives are there for it to be financially worth while then i will upgrade to an EV
I like the idea of helping the environment - but im not 'rich' and it needs to be affordable for a middle class income earning family like ours to get into the EV market