so starting off with mine, I hate those who can't drive at a speed limit when on the right lane or who don't follow slower traffic keep left rule.
and people who don't use an indicator on the turning lane or indicate early while turning.
Just hoping people become aware of road rules and whatnot.
Safer too
I would have thought it's safer to drive out of a parking spot than reverse out.
It is, especially when driving a van.
I find it easier to reverse out with the reversing camera, especially when you're parked in by SUVs or similar that block your vision if you try to drive out forward.
Yeah I guess both have benefits.
Its faster to reverse into the lot than out of a lot. You don't need to look out for traffic coming from the sides for one. The car actually spends less time blocking traffic when reversing in and driving forward out (and is way safer too).
Drivers preemptively braking 10-15kph below the speed limit as they approach a green set of traffic lights at the bottom of a dip, remains green, then accelerate again for the incline.
Migrants from certain countries who are allowed a license "changeover" rather than having to sit an actual driving test, who clearly should not be on our roads. Also those who sit a driving test and clearly get preferential treatment from either a backhander or having a testing officer who is loyal to his or her "own" race of people, who also clearly should not be on our roads.
Why are you blaming the migrants. Shouldn’t you be blaming the politicians that allow it?
Pretty sad and petty really.
You’re the kind of person who cries ‘migrants are taking our jobs’ but won’t do the jobs migrants do, aren’t you.
Never mind about dcash. He’s just old school that’s all. Like 30+ years of never using jack stands under a car and not about to start now old school.
You're the one putting words into my mouth, so I'll leave it at that.
This sounds like people who say women are bad drivers despite the fact men are statistically worse drivers and kill themselves on the road far more.
I've never had an at-fault accident and never received a ticket. So I think I'm sufficiently qualified to talk about safe and legal driving.
Right, so why don't you tell us about these 'certain countries' that purportedly produce bad drivers who then easily get there licences here? Which countries?
@Deals For Days: In NSW: Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong and South Korea from the Asian region (Asia making up the vast majority of migrants in Sydney).
Drivers from those countries can get a NSW license without sitting for the knowledge test and the driving test. Like I said, it's a changeover license, without them having to know anything about our road rules and not having to demonstrate any competency behind the wheel whatsoever.
https://roads-waterways.transport.nsw.gov.au/roads/licence/v…
@dcash: It's funny because the exemptions include dozens of European countries, none of which you've mentioned. There are plenty of European migrants in Sydney - some suburbs are known for their European migrant populations (Five Dock & Leichardt having many italian migrants for example).
Also notable is that you've mentioned several countries (Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong) that have LOWER deaths by driving rates than Australia itself… which presumably wouldn't be the case if they had worse drivers than us, would it? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r…).
I'm sure you have plenty of anecdotal evidence that these countries produce poor drivers, but you ought to consider some of these beliefs might just be playing into sterotypes.
I would in fact agree with you that foreign licence holders (and Australian licence holders who've had their licences for some time) should undergo more rigorous testing when they move here - but I would not agree that this only applies to Asian drivers, because frankly that's just pretty racist. There have been plenty of cases of American and European drivers killing people overseas by driving on the wrong side of the road.
@Deals For Days: Before you call me a racist again, perhaps you might like to check the ABS stats for Eastwood and Epping (NSW) and then talk to me about how many migrants in MY area are of Asian vs European heritage.
You might also like to point out exactly where I said they were "poor drivers" as opposed to drivers who are not familiar with our local road rules and customs, due to them not having to have passed any driving tests in Australia.
Before you call me a racist again, perhaps you might like to check the ABS stats for Eastwood and Epping (NSW) and then talk to me about how many migrants in MY area are of Asian vs European heritage.
Living in a predominantly Asian area = not racist? Righto.
You might also like to point out exactly where I said they were "poor drivers" as opposed to drivers who are not familiar with our local road rules and customs, due to them not having to have passed any driving tests in Australia.
It is clearly implied "they" are bad drivers according to your opinion. Otherwise why would you be commenting in this thread. It is obviously untrue that not knowing road rules makes a good driver. Enough of your bs.
Living in a predominantly Asian area = not racist? Righto.
If I live in a predominantly Asian area (it wasn't when I moved there), experience a lot of bad driving in that area, and make mention of the fact, I'm automatically a racist. Nice try, troll.
It is clearly implied "they" are bad drivers according to your opinion. Otherwise why would you be commenting in this thread. It is obviously untrue that not knowing road rules makes a good driver. Enough of your bs.
I can't be responsible for your baseless assumptions, and why the need for swearing? I don't know what's going on in your life, but perhaps you need to seek some qualified help. Anyway, is it really too difficult for you to connect the dots? Might it be that they are poor drivers in Australia because they have no knowledge of our local road rules and customs, even though they might not have been poor drivers in the country they came from?
If I live in a predominantly Asian area (it wasn't when I moved there), experience a lot of bad driving in that area, and make mention of the fact, I'm automatically a racist. Nice try, troll.
You just admitted to believing certain ethnicities are worse drivers, yet you were trying to deflect from that fact the comment prior. I live nearby and see no problem with other drivers. You need to see past race and stereotyping, and put up with the compromise of arriving 1 minute later to your destination. Or have a chill pill and not get so worked up by such a simple part of life - maybe leave 5 minutes earlier from home? Most people have moved on from the scummy attitude you are expressing.
I can't be responsible for your baseless assumptions
It's you that is stating one opinion, and pretending it does not imply something else through racist undertones.
If you see race as part of bad driving, you need a reality check and to be part of the solution to your perceived problem. Be a calm, well-mannered and patient driver, like a decent civilised person.
I'm going to ignore the rest of your comment, you are outrageously idiotic.
Also notable is that you've mentioned several countries (Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong) that have LOWER deaths by driving rates than Australia itself
That's about as useful as the NSW Government publishing its "Easter Road Toll" stats and so-forth, which never take into account the growth in population and therefore increase in the number of cars on the road. Lower death tolls overseas could be due to safer and newer cars, better designed and maintained roads, better public transport and less use of vehicles, and a whole range of other things. It clearly doesn't equate to them being "better" or "safer" drivers once they hit the Australian roads.
@dcash: Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong and South Korea
These countries have much much much higher licensing testing training requirements than Australia.
These countries have much much much higher licensing testing training requirements than Australia.
Which clearly still doesn't qualify them, in the practical sense, to drive well in Australia.
@dcash: I would have largely agreed with dcash maybe a decade ago. There was a bit of road in the middle of eastwood (rowe st.?) where there's a speed camera where accidents with people of the Asian extraction was almost a daily occurence.
But if you go to Hurstville or Cabramatta then the same thing will occur… because that area is full of Asians then you will see Asians having accidents.
As a white person you will naturally be much more alerted to Asians having accidents while brushing off white people having accidents.
One incident is normal because they are white.
One incident is not because they are Asian.
I dont think this is the case today. Further to this I dont know why he calls out SG TW JP HK or SK people as these are all effectively developed nations who have good training requirements.
If you want to call out some group, its the mainland Chinese. But even then I beleive the RTA does not willy nilly reciprocate any more. They do have to pass the P plate thing again. Whether that is effective is another story.
I am often in Eastwood and Epping, The reality is that the amount of flow there means that accidents will be more common and it will more than likely involve someone from maintand China but it is up to the RTA to filter these issues out rather than to blame "Asians as a whole".
@tonyjzx: I'm actually not really talking about accidents per se (my original comment never made mention of them). What I find I see more and more of is people simply ignoring the road rules to their own selfish advantage. I'll give you an example I regularly come across. Take the intersection of Post Office St and Pennant Hills Road in Carlingford. People will turn left into Pennant Hills Road from Post Office St, wanting to get into the right hand turn lanes on Pennant Hills Road (that turn into Carlingford Road). The problem is that often both of these right hand turn lanes are occupied to beyond Post Office St, so what do the drivers do? They turn into Pennant Hills Road and then simply stop in the straight ahead lane, completely blocking one of two lanes of the VERY busy Pennant Hills Road. No amount of honking by a myriad of cars will get them to move, until the right hand turn lane finally clears. Why are there so many cars turning out of this particular road all of a sudden? Perhaps because of the hundreds of new apartment dwellings that have popped up near Carlingford Station (with hundreds more still to come). In an effort to avoid up to 3 sets of traffic lights, they will illegally and selfishly stop in the middle of Pennant Hills Road. Who lives in these new apartment dwellings? Who are the drivers who do this on a daily basis? I won't say, because, as a white person, I'm not allowed to write about what I see with my own eyes. But we all know who I'm talking about. And this is just one example of the sort of thing I encounter, in the same places, over and over again on a daily basis.
Are selfish acts only committed by one race of people? Or only by migrants? Of course not, and I never said they were. All I can state is what I witness with my own eyes on the roads where I spend most of my time. And having lived and driven extensively overseas, I know that certain acts that are considered acceptable overseas are not so in Australia. To use my previous example, in a lot of countries lane markings tend to be ignored, and if you have two turn lanes but can (more or less) squeeze three cars into the lanes, then that's what you do. If it's peak hour and you can turn a three lane road into a five lane road, then that's what you do. In NSW, for better or worse, it doesn't work that way. And therefore requiring migrants to pass both a knowledge and practical test would, IMHO, go a long way toward curbing some of these behaviours.
Note also that my original post did not say that any of these people were "bad/poor" drivers — simply that they should not be on our roads. I hope that makes my position clear.
As to mainland Chinese, personally I WOULD lump a lot of them into the "bad" drivers category, and frankly it's entirely beyond me to work out how some of them get a license in Australia. Perhaps some RMS officers are still taking bribes (this was happening at one stage, so those of you who want to yell out 'racist' again should do a Google first).
Note also that my original post did not say that any of these people were "bad/poor" drivers — simply that they should not be on our roads.
They shouldn't be on the roads because they're bad drivers. Why are you contradicting yourself to deflect from that simple fact? What other reason do you have?
As to mainland Chinese, personally I WOULD lump a lot of them into the "bad" drivers category
What solution do you suggest.
They shouldn't be on the roads because they're bad drivers. Why are you contradicting yourself to deflect from that simple fact? What other reason do you have?
Since you're admitting that they're bad drivers (as you've stated that it's a fact), why are you arguing with me? It seems we're in complete agreement 😆
@dcash: Bad drivers according to your stereotyping masked as "proven statistical information". There are bad white drivers (hoons or people full of rage) just as there are uneducated Asian drivers, vice versa.
What I was saying in regards to your argument is that you were contradicting yourself. How can you say Asian drivers don't deserve licences, and also say they aren't necessarily bad drivers? Makes no sense whatsoever.
@Techie4066: I think dcash would be surprised if he ever ventured into Penrith to see what kind of creative driving happens there. I personally take aboard his comments about Pennant Hills Rd.
I have lived in this area since… 1989? Its never been good at all and I can hardly fathom what 'race' decides to use this wretched road. I always avoid it.
I hate Epping Rd. now but at least I remember a time when it wasnt so bad. I cant say that about Pennant Hills Rd. It has all sorts of nonsense from all races all the way from Parramatta to Hornsby.
50kmh drivers st George's Rd Melbourne when it's 70kmh and little traffic
St Georges Rd in Toorak definitely has a 50kmh limit.
People who come to complete stop at roundabouts when there are no cars around to give way. They stop then look and instead of looking to see if they need to stop to give way.
People who don't do shoulder check before changing lanes and get angry at you if you happen to be in the lane they wanted to change into.
People who tailgate you for driving at speed limit.
Driving the work Triton, getting plenty of tailgaters despite me putting as much as effort in keeping relatively close and safe proximity (1.0-1.5s gap) to the car ahead whilst on a non-right lane. Probably just the confidence of believing they can brake harder than me if it comes to it whilst blissfully not seeing traffic ahead hmm!
Drivers who just are not aware of their surrounding in general before making their next driving decision. Usually ends up changing lane into the path of a faster car at legal speed, or late indicating, or make a slight left before doing a right turn whilst scaring the car on the left.
If anyone is reading this does a slight swerve before turning, please don't. You can just brake in a straight line and make a turn, it's not a Formula 1 game where funny enough it does give more turning capacity
If anyone is reading this does a slight swerve before turning, please don't. You can just brake in a straight line and make a turn, it's not a Formula 1 game where funny enough it does give more turning capacity
This annoys me a lot. There is no need to swerve your vehicle into the next lane to make a turn. If you slow down you can still make that turn. I had 1 person take half of my lane in their SUV to make a turn.
People who must change lanes and be in front of me, even when there's a ton of space behind me
people that take 10 years to turn a corner doing 2km/hr.
Those in cars turning left who veer right first like they are driving a truck!
Going for the old Scandinavian flick.
I was looking for this comment. My god it's like they're taking a racing line at 10km/h.
Lol
Drivers who cut off/don't give way to pedestrians when turning into (and out of?) streets.
Seriously annoying - if you're turning into a street you give way to pedestrians walk in parallel to the road you're turning from.
Letting too many cars in who are coming out of a car park. Sure letting 1 or 2 is fine but if there's a green light ahead and no congestion, then letting in a heap is going to cause everyone to miss the light.
I find it's particularly bad in certain school zones.
Also when someone is turning right at the traffic lights (when there is no arrow) and someone wanting to go forwards goes behind them instead of the left lane to go past. Then the rest of the cars don't realise and you get congestion with an increased chance of a collision with people trying to move out of the lane.
Oh and people who can't use median lanes properly. I'm gonna go put 3/4 of my car poking out so I'm blocking the lane.
/Endrant
People who think an indicator gives them right of way to change lanes even though there isn’t a gap.
Unfortunately many drivers think "ooh I want to move" so they turn on the indicator before they've checked to see if there's any space at all. WRONG.
This is where you are wrong. It is completely well and good to turn on your indicator, because it is a safety device and shows your intention to change lanes. After displaying that intention, then you can check it is safe to move, and then move over.
because other drivers have no idea what you're actually going to do.
You are completely defying logic - indicators show your intentions. That does NOT mean you will immediately change lanes, because that is unsafe. So you are wrong again. You can be indicating and let cars pass in the lane you're anticipating to change into.
This is shockingly bad and extremely dangerous advice.
Never turn on your indicator before you've looked to ensure the way is clear first. To do otherwise is to have an utter callous lack of respect for other human beings and displays zero road sense.
The amount of hyperbolising and lack of knowledge from you, infy, is the only dangerous and outrageous thing. In fact, it's so laughable it sounds like you're joking.
My advice is perfectly sound and significantly BENEFITS other drivers because they can ANTICIPATE the actions of other drivers and AVOID a collision. You are therefore very wrong regarding your use of indicators because you are promoting unsafe practice that goes against basic logic and best practices.
This logic refers back to the very basic design and purpose of indicators - to convey your intention to turn or change lanes. Otherwise, who are you informing your intention to? No one?
On top of this, I had driving lessons with 3 different instructors, all of whom said to indicate to SHOW YOUR INTENTION prior to changing lanes. THIS IS WHAT AN INDICATOR IS FOR - to let other drivers anticipate. You simply NEVER change lanes immediately, it is perfectly allowable to have your indicator on for 10 seconds, let cars pass, and move safely. Otherwise you are a HAZARD to other road users, because you could potentially cross the path of oncoming traffic and cause a collision.
You DO NOT have to WAIT for traffic to pass PRIOR TO indicating to change lanes. If you are the type of driver to SLOW DOWN when a driver is indicating to GIVE WAY, you are WRONG and need to have driving lessons. Drivers like you promoting stupid practices are the problem on our roads - it causes inconveniences and SAFETY related consequences.
This is how I was taught when on my learner's licence, and it is most definitely best practice, unlike the advice you are recommending. 3 other OzB users agree, since I did not downvote your comment. Your logic is categorically incorrect and defies intuition.
WRONG and highly dangerous.
Your arrogance is simply astounding and a complete and utter joke. I have heard no one, and I mean no one, express the condescension and disrespect you do on OzBargain. Disgusting.
Start realising you're not the only one on the road. Start showing a smidgen of respect for others.
Ever realised you're the problem? Your licence should be revoked with this level of ignorance for safety, common courtesy and road rules. Confused by indicators? Hand in your licence infy.
@Techie4066: I've had to report this abusive post. Such dangerous and selfish advice should be unpublished. Encouraging people to give mixed and unclear signals on the road could lead to severe injury or death.
@[Deactivated]: You don't like to hear it. The funny thing is you aren't even trolling, and 2 people upvoted my advice against yours.
@Techie4066: I won't tolerate calls for incredibly dangerous and selfish driving techniques that could lead to death or severe injury.
@[Deactivated]: You need professional help, this is delusion beyond belief. 2 people upvoted my advice against your unsafe, counter-intuitive recommendation. It should be clear to you that your argument is very, very wrong. I'd be extremely worried if you're this selfish and unreasonable in real life.
Encouraging people to give mixed and unclear signals on the road could lead to severe injury or death.
…
I won't tolerate calls for incredibly dangerous and selfish driving techniques that could lead to death or severe injury.
Are you trolling? Have you read your own advice? This is absolutely ludicrous!
What you've missed in all of this is that you CHECK (informing you cars are in your path), then INDICATE, wait for traffic to pass while CONTINUING to check, then change lanes when it is safe to do so. This is the ideal practice when change lanes. Yours is the complete opposite - unsafe. It gives other road users little time to anticipate, which is the largest contributor to judgement when speed is involved.
In a situation where you must move over quickly, (for example you need to make a last-minute right turn at an intersection), using your advice, you'd slow down while not displaying your intention, wait for all cars to pass, indicate, and steer over into your desired lane. UNSAFE.
@Techie4066: On the off-chance you genuinely want to learn something and maybe are sorry for the personal abuse hurled unjustly:
INDICATE, wait for traffic to pass
So you're indicating a false move. Your light is flashing but you've absolutely no intention of moving. Time goes on, nobody outside your car has any idea what you're thinking, and your lights are just flashing flashing away, with absolutely no correlation to traffic flow around you. Finally you decide to move - but by now nobody expects it because your blinker has been flashing for so long they've no idea what you're up to.
And BAM you collide with someone because they thought you left your indicator on, clearly you weren't serious about moving soon after you turned it on.
Here's the thing: you don't have perfect vision in a car. That's why you wait until you think the way is clear before you indicate. Then you begin to move. At that point it is clear to everyone you indicated an intention to move, and they can honk you if you didn't see them.
Leaving your indicator flashing foolishly leads to confusion, and sending mixed signals on the road is the worst thing you can do. It's the equivalent of creeping into an intersection. Then stopping. Then going. Then stopping again. Nobody has any idea what you're trying to do. Even if what you do is the wrong move, at least make the move, and others can plan around your move.
On the off-chance you genuinely want to learn something and maybe are sorry for the personal abuse hurled unjustly
Might want to have a second look at your thesaurus. This is, again, hyperbolised and beyond untrue.
Indicators show intention, not what you're immediately going to do. It allows other drivers to anticipate based upon your intention to perform an upcoming turn or lane change, when conditions allow. You're wrong. How'd the report go? It's not me downvoting, by the way (go figure).
@neil: Thanks for the reminder. Infy might want to settle this one by arguing with a driving instructor or testing officer.
@neil: This conversation is absolutely vile. The nastiness of @Techie4066 and @pegaxs truly has me shocked, as well as their absolute hatred and disregard for other people on the road and in the world.
I'm either going to have to delete my account because of this utter vileness, or this whole thread needs to be purged.
@[Deactivated]: I’ve read some absolute tripe on these forums when it comes to road rules and road use, but you truly have hit a new low, @infy.
You’ve made a really bad call and seem to be doubling down to protect your ego at the expense of looking in the vain hope of having your ludicrous position validated.
You really need to read and understand road rule 46 and 48. These rules deal with giving “sufficient warning” when using your indicators.
I guess my pet peeve is the arsehole in traffic that indicate and move at or almost at the same time. This is the sort of stupid shit in traffic that causes confusion and accidents. Putting your indicator on as you move is a dick move, as this would not be considered “sufficient warning”.
The only one here suggesting anything dangerous, is you.
@pegaxs: @Techie4066 and @pegaxs, moderator @neil requested you discuss respectfully.
Immediately afterwards you both have hurled more personal abuse.
I'm not going to engage any further, I've been very clear in my explanations for the reasons why clear messaging to other drivers is so vitally important for road safety. I do not need to repeat it again.
@pegaxs: Why would I when you are so utterly reckless, rude, selfish, disrespectful, and arrogant. It is woeful that anybody issued you a licence and it saddens me to think you will likely cause serious injury or death in your road rage filled career.
Still sitting there with your indicator flashing while you continue to play with your phone, not quite ready to look out the window and see what other traffic is doing? Unbelievable. And yet you abuse others who simply want to make you less of a threat on the roads. Shame on you.
@[Deactivated]: What happened to;
I'm not going to engage any further
And, you are still wrong. The fact that you have a license astounds me (as well as many others, it seems). Have you even read the Vic. Road Rules?
your road rage filled career.
Putting my indicator on to give "sufficient warning" is an act of road rage??
Sometimes I get so pissed off in traffic that I actually give way to people as well! Just let that guy get in front of me! That will teach him how to drive! I'm going to follow them, at a safe distance, in the left lane, at the speed limit to really let them know how pissed I really am!
And who said anything about playing on the phone?? Strawman much?
The fact remains that the actual road rules say "sufficient warning" (even goes so far as to say "at least 5 seconds" in RR 48(3)) and says that you are wrong.
The only one being "rude, selfish, disrespectful, and arrogant" is you. I am just telling you what the road rules say (and what most driving instructors teach). Simply telling you what the road rules state is not any of those things. You are the one who is getting bent out of shape instead of just accepting that you are wrong and adding it to your "Today I Learned" list.
Rude is yelling at people that you are right when you clearly are not.
Selfish is not giving "sufficient warning" before changing direction/lanes
Disrespectful is not accepting the help that others are trying to give you
Arrogant is being wrong and unwilling to accept it and learn from it.
But it's ok, parlay up your wrongness, double it down and let it ride.
@pegaxs: Giving incorrect signals and disrupting traffic is purely selfish. You don't want to look out the window - that's harmful to others.
How about taking responsibility when you drive to ensure you're not making others get out of your way? Sure, I phrased that as a question, but it isn't a question, not if you care about safety.
You look out your window first. Make sure the way is clear. Then you indicate, having done all you can to ensure you aren't going to cause any problems.
This whole "I'll indicate any time I want to" attitude, combined with harassing people who do drive safely, is so very wrong.
BE AWARE OF THE TRAFFIC AROUND YOU.
Giving incorrect signals and disrupting traffic is purely selfish.
Correct, but that is not what is being talked about (moving the goal posts). Giving a signal to turn right and then turning left, is stupid, but giving "sufficient warning" with your indicator is not. And how is giving "sufficient warning" disrupting traffic?
You don't want to look out the window
Never said that, ergo, strawman. I always do my head checks before changing direction/merging (I drive trucks, cars and ride motorcycles. Trust me, my head is on a swivel.)
How about taking responsibility when you drive to ensure you're not making others get out of your way?
I don't "make" others get out of my way, and you suggesting I do, is another strawman. I give way where I have too as indicated by the Road Rules. Putting your indicator on as you merge/turn (or just before), on the other hand, is irresponsible (as it lacks "sufficient warning" that is mandated in the Road Rules.)
This whole "I'll indicate any time I want to" attitude
The thing is, I don't (and you guessed it, another "strawman"). I indicate with "sufficient warning" time for other motorists. You on the other hand seem to think it is ok to indicate as you move. You are the one that is indicating "any time you want". And if you think your driving is safe, you really need to have your ability reassessed.
BE AWARE OF THE TRAFFIC AROUND YOU.
Again, I am aware of traffic. I do my checks. The other thing I like to do is make other drivers aware of me. I always give plenty of notice ("sufficient warning") to those around me so they too can also be aware of me and my intentions to change direction/lines of traffic. Traffic awareness is a two way process.
@pegaxs: You already demonstrated that you indicate without looking out the window, now you're digging in to somehow claim that closing your eyes to traffic around you is somehow okay. It's not.
And … did you… did you really link the word "ability" to Wikipedia??!!!! Now this is just getting funny (if it wasn't sad because of how dangerous what you're advocating really is, driving is not some kind of silly game you have to "win").
@[Deactivated]: Dude, I think your either trying to make a point poorly or just wrong.
You need to indicate for a good few seconds before you move. Plenty of time for the proper head checks.
I often indicate before looking ‘properly’ but will generally have an awareness of what’s around. If there isn’t a gap to merge to it gives other cars a good warning, but don’t merge until space available - after all I’m to give way.
you indicate without looking out the window
Never stated that
closing your eyes to traffic around you is somehow okay.
Never stated that
did you really link the word "ability" to Wikipedia??
I linked the “word” to a page on Wikipedia that I really think you should read. It might help with why you can’t accept that you are wrong.
because of how dangerous what you're advocating really is
I’m advocating for the current road rules. I am bringing attention to the legislation. Again, please let me know how bringing the Road Rules to your attention is “dangerous”.
not some kind of silly game you have to "win"
I’m not trying to win, I’m trying to educate. You are the one trying to win. I get it, your ego is hurt and you hate being wrong, but it’s ok to learn.
If one person tells you you’re wrong, meh, that’s their opinion… if everyone is telling you you’re wrong… just maybe, you’re wrong…
@pegaxs: Thanks for taking over for me and defending the road rules. This whole discussion is just ridiculous. All it does is goes to show how poor the knowledge of some of our drivers are - people like Infy never should've received licences. The testing process clearly needs to be more stringent, not to prevent access to licences but to improve knowledge.
@[Deactivated]: Incredible, it still hasn't crossed your mind that your fragile ego is getting the better of you. What you're saying regarding use of indicators is completely misleading and not a conversation that should need to happen given a basic understanding of road rules. Something must look a bit wrong when you have 3 people informing you repetitively that you're categorically wrong? It's not worth anyone's time trying to correct you.
And no, @pegaxs was not involved in this discussion when Neil provided his reminder, nor was he mentioned. So well done on yet another factual inaccuracy worsening your delusion or poor attempt at trolling.
@Techie4066: Needing someone as equally as wrong as you to make you feel better about your utter disregard for road safety pretty much proves the point that you're so terribly insecure on this subject.
I've not wavered in my dedication to road safety which requires observation out the window and clear communication to other drivers.
Flipping your indicator on willy-nilly with no idea of the appropriateness of the signal or whether your desire to move is practical or reasonable… it truly is unbelievable you continue to maintain this is acceptable.
I take responsibility for how I communicate to others on the road. That you feel the need to harass someone that does the right thing really says a lot about your character.
Feel free to do some more study, and start listening to those more skilled and knowledgeable than you. Other people's lives may depend on it.
I don't know where you learnt to drive, but I'm just going to leave this here. (Reg 46 deals with going "left". Reg 48 deals with going "right", but it's the same, worded with the opposite direction).
ROAD SAFETY ROAD RULES 2017 - REG 46
Giving a left change of direction signal
(1) Before a driver changes direction to the left, the driver must give a left change of direction signal in accordance with rule 47 for long enough to comply with subrule (2) and, if subrule (3) applies to the driver, that subrule.
Note
Changes direction to the left is defined in rule 45(2).
(2) The driver must give the change of direction signal for long enough to give sufficient warning to other drivers and pedestrians.
(3) If the driver is about to change direction by moving from a stationary position at the side of the road or in a median strip parking area, the driver must give the change of direction signal for at least 5 seconds before the driver changes direction.
Right, but only if they've checked the way is clear first. My point is firing up the indicator when there is traffic next to you is giving mixed signals and shows the driver is unaware of traffic around them.
@[Deactivated]: The indicators are there for you to signal your intentions to pedestrians and other drivers. As per the Reg 46 and 48, the indicator has to be on long enough to give sufficient warning to other drivers and pedestrians. They are not only used to signal when you're changing direction.
What do you do when you want to turn left at a traffic light and there are pedestrians crossing the road?
From what you're suggesting, you would stop there, wait for all the pedestrians to cross and then turn on your indicator as you're about to turn.
If you pay attention, you'll notice that everyone actually stops there with their left indicator on, waiting for all the pedestrians to cross before turning. They don't wait until it's all clear. That way, the cars behind and the pedestrians crossing the road know that the drivers want to turn left.
My point is firing up the indicator when there is traffic next to you is giving mixed signals and shows the driver is unaware of traffic around them.
Not if you don't steer into them like a complete idiot! That's the point, you can indicate to show your intention, give sufficient warning and let others anticipate, THEN and ONLY THEN change lanes. It is ADVISABLE to turn your indicator on as soon as you realise you need to change lanes. You're obviously not going to CRASH into other cars because awareness is a must.
Therefore indicating preemptively ≠ a lack of awareness or increased crash risk. NOR DOES IT MEAN SENDING MIXED MESSAGES TO OTHER DRIVERS. If you believe indicating preemptively means you need to give way to the car indicating, YOU'RE A BAD DRIVER. Too many people misunderstand this. THAT'S NOT HOW DRIVING WORKS. Giving way unless required is not considerate because you're not following the rules of the road, and you're the one increasing risk of crashes, not the driver correctly providing sufficient warning, for obvious reasons explained many times above.
No one changes lanes unless they need to. You're going to have to change whether you indicate with sufficient warning or not. Doing so without sufficient warning is what's DANGEROUS and what YOU are advocating.
So you're suggesting the polar opposite of what is legally required of you, and BEST PRACTICE regardless of road rules.
It's beyond me that you're still adamant your argument is correct, simply because you cannot comprehend this. Or at least I hope that's the case.
It's beyond me
Yes, I can see that. You've refused to acknowledge that sending MIXED SIGNALS to other drivers is UNSAFE. You've refused to acknowledge that FAILING TO SEE IF IT IS CLEAR before indicating shows reckless disregard for safety.
And then you've turned on the nastiness and trash talking instead of apologising for your dreadful behaviour.
You're the one that isn't taking any responsibility when you drive. You're the one that doesn't care what message you send to other drivers.
It's terrifically sad what an awful person you are at heart. And I do seriously worry about anyone near you on the road. You've got rage issues that, compounded with your zero situational awareness, are a tragedy waiting to happen.
FAILING TO SEE IF IT IS CLEAR before indicating
This just goes to show you can't comprehend what any of us are saying. That is not at all what I said and categorically untrue.
You've got rage issues that, compounded with your zero situational awareness, are a tragedy waiting to happen.
Did you really just say that? Funniest thing I've heard all day, thank you!
Confirmed, this genuinely is delusion beyond belief. Not trolling, not misinformed, just plain illogical.
Cheer up and learn a thing or two from the legislation you're supposed to understand. Don't take it from me since you're incapable of doing that.
@Techie4066: Every second post of yours accuses anybody that points out reality to you as a "troll". We've established your complete disregard for road safety. Now we can also see your inability to communicate using words.
Why are you so nasty? Is it the only way you can cope with being a danger to others?
@[Deactivated]: You sound like a nervous driver. Have you thought about doing an advanced driving course to improve your skills instead of blaming everyone else for your shortcomings?
@mapax: Sorry, you an utter moron? Do you just put your indicator on without looking, too?
What's your problem with actually LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW as a driver? Seriously, what's your problem.
@mapax: Seems Infy's internal dialogue finally got the better of them. They'll go off, driving into the sunset, then stop on the side the road, waiting for all cars to pass before indicating. Because they don't know how to change lanes.
Moron thinks us idiots have a problem and we all don't understand the law after reading it! None of us look out windows! Mirrors don't exist! Wait, maybe they don't?
@Techie4066: I went out and turned my indicators on tonight, just so they are on for me when I drive out in the morning. Just giving everyone in my street “sufficient warning”.
On my drive tomorrow, I’m going to do at least one look out the window first and then just merge at the same time I put my indicator on and yell “this one’s for you, @infy!”
A new habit that seems to be developing in Melbourne in the last 4 or 5 month is that people are not stopping on the line at red lights, they are just driving past the line and sitting a metre or two into the intersection, sometimes blocking pedestrians that try and cross the road. It's a new thing, but I am seeing it at almost every traffic light in the inner east. I don't understand it.
In Sydney I've seen three drivers completely overshoot the pedestrian crossing in the last few days. One of them drove over the solid line for cars, right up to the displaced line for pedestrians (metres ahead).
Yep, everyday now there's always a few people for whom white lines don't exist.
…there's always a few people for whom white lines don't exist.
For some, it only exists on a warm plate!
I'm tempted to walk over their bonnets
Caravans
If you drive slowly/cautiously with a stream of traffic banked up behind you, pull over as a courtesy. After all, you are clearly not in a hurry.
But perhaps you don't check your rerar vision mirror?
Blinding headlights, particularly on high riding utes.
Something really needs to be done about this. For one, LED headlights are simply too bright. But the biggest problem is that utes have the lights mounted at or above most drivers' eye level.
The European Union actually has regulations about the maximum height of a bonnet so that if a pedestrian gets hit they've got a good chance of folding over the hood rather than being pancaked under the car. I'd really like to see a maximum height of bonnets here in Australia - and have the headlights below eyeline.
For one, LED headlights are simply too bright.
They're a perfect brightness, but the driver needs to adjust them properly. New headlights adjust the direction of the beam, and turn off parts of the beam, to avoid shining on other cars
have the headlights below eyeline.
That's almost impossible to do when you have RAM trucks and hatchbacks on the same roads, due to the positioning of headlights and people's eyes. Australia also has regulations about bonnet height.
Every other driver.
People who talk over your favourite music
People who don't indicate
People who drive on the centre of the road, so you can't overtake but go back on double lines
People who don't stay left on those 'slow cars use left lanes'
People who drink Drive, you shouldn't, it is a washing liquid :p
So you don't like it when people reverse in? It's easier to reverse in than reverse out.