Since cannabis is a whole lot safer compared to alcohol, should we legalize it with same or similar rules as alcohol?
Legalize Cannabis with Similar/Same Rules as Alcohol?
Comments
Marijuana has some medical benefits and even though I've never had it I'd rather people that do use it be able to get it from a dispensary instead of through unregulated dealings.
But alcohol being bad isn't a good reason to legalize anything either.
It's not about being fair, it's about the best outcome for the community.
Alcohol is too embedded in the culture already, prohibition proved that ship has sailed.
Marijuana legalization has to stand on its own feet.As long as people do it in the comfort of their own homes, don't drive on it, don't operate heavy machinery on it, then I can't see a problem with legalization.
Marijuana has some medical benefits
Only medicinal cannabis and that is already legal…
Smoking marijuana is no better than smoking tobacco, it's probably a lot worse.Smoking tobacco is significantly more carcinogenic than smoking cannabis. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/
https://journals.lww.com/oncology-times/fulltext/2006/06250/…Cannabis is effective in treating cancer related sicknesses:
https://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatments-and-side-effects…
You have lot of ifs going on. I bet the same is for alcohol before all he’ll break loose.
They say Cannabis is a gateway drug to other harder stuff. I can tell you as a addict, Cannabis got me off all the hard stuff! so worked in reverse for me (Dont use nothing anymore). It should 100% be looked into more for use as recreational, and as others said have some laws around it, IE: Not in public, No driving etc. It will also help the state and federal govts with more tax.
People will argue, but lets all be honest! its not the devils drug it was made out to be in the 60/70's and IMO is a lot safer then the legal ones. IE: Tobacco and Alcohol
Totally agree. Ive found most people who are regular users of stimulants aren’t really keen on weed. Doesn’t really appeal to that personality type I guess.
It is a stepping stone to more dangerous substances because the only way to get it is illegal and profit margins can be higher for other more harmful drugs. A cannabis dealer will likely know how to tap into other drugs. Reduce the demand for illegal channels and the channels will dry up. Assuming it's correctly administered, the dealers can go legit and make taxed income via much the same line of work.
Actually most weed dealers and chem dealers tend to be separate at least from my (extensive) experience. Dealing weed isn’t profitable like chems (low margins and bulky smelly product) so you’ll find most street level weed dealers are subsidising their own habits while the people out to make cash are just dealing powders.
Never had a weed dealer refer me onto a chem dealer unless I asked and in the app era with apps like Wickr you do not need a weed dealer to connect yourself with someone dealing chems.
Not a lot of stigma around recreational drug use among young people these days either, plenty people bypass weed and go straight to the chems.
Sorry, we don’t know as we don’t deal with drugs. That is your own experience only. You can say whatever you want while smoking.
Yes I stated that it is just my experience but I've also explained the forces that contribute to it. $1000 worth of weed fills a garbage bag, $1000 worth of powders barely puts a bulge in an envelope, you do the math.
I am of the opinion that weed is safer than alcohol. So yes, needs to be legalised.
Can't blame substance abuse on the substance itself. The flaws are with individuals, and addiction would manifest in other facets of their lives. Cannabis itself isn't addictive, so there's no merit to the current laws.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."- Thomas Jefferson.
Do your duty OzBargainers, get a good deal on your weed!
The flaws are with individuals
People just don't want to take responsibility. It is the greater fool that lives in people. Remember the story about the Apple, serpent, man and women in a garden where there is never a shortage of all the heart desires.
You got to be a fool to get kicked out of an all you can eat buffet if you were told you can eat anything except for the crappy apple in the basket at the end.
A comparison to alcohol is not really helpful. The demon drink causes significant harm in society, it would not be good to see any additional substances legalised that come anywhere near this level of harm.
That said, most drugs should be legalised. We are adults after all.
most drugs should be legalised. We are adults after all.
if you want to sign a waiver that you won't be getting public health budgets to pay for the consequences…
As long as public health covers obesity related illnesses, why shouldn't it also cover drug related?
Coronary heart disease is the leading cause of death in Australia.
No drug in the world comes close to even a tiny fraction of this.
As long as public health covers obesity related illnesses
Like ?
@trapper: Lots of those conditions also apply to non-obese people
Are you suggesting they also don't get treated?
@jv: "The study reveals that obesity is linked to very high rates of chronic illnesses — higher than living in poverty, and much higher than smoking or drinking."
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4549.html#:~:tex….
obesity is linked to very high rates of chronic illnesses
Lots of starving people also succumb to chronic illness.
@jv: Vague points wont help you here. Almost all of the studies I've seen attribute obesity as the greatest contributing factor towards chronic illness. Studies even show that it is better to be thin and sedentary than it is to carry extra weight while living an active lifestyle.
So I'm not sure how you can justify a waiver for smokers while not also excluding those who are obese from treatment.
As long as public health covers obesity related illnesses
Very good point
We are adults after all.
Most of the worlds dumbest things were done by adults.
You got that right. No kids enlisted to be child soldiers on their own. Neither has kinder gardens and schools voted to go to war.
I find it curious that on the one hand most people want to stamp out tobacco smoking. The government's tax is now so high that it's an addiction that few people can afford.
Yet, on the other hand some people are strongly pushing increased smoking of cannabis. While cannabis is less carcinogenic that tobacco, it still contains numerous polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons that are carcinogenic and not healthy to breathe in any quantity.
You can consume cannabis without smoking. Prohibition only makes alternative consumption methods less available and less cost effective for the average user.
You can consume cannabis without smoking
Hemp bed sheets?
I am worried people will set them on fire and try to inhale the smoke.
Vaping, edibles, concentrates, tinctures, massage oils, etc. Weed gummies made with cannabis concentrates are very popular in the states currently.
@OhNoUShiz: Yes I’m not under the impression it would eliminate smoking, smoking will always be a thing, but edibles and vaping concentrates have also become very popular in America. Currently edible and concentrate use in Australia is almost nonexistent for the reasons I’ve already stated.
Many of the carcinogens are introduced into tobacco to make it burn at a consistent rate.
So those that argue that cannabis is less carcinogenic than tobacco should be arguing for the legalisation for home made or Chop also.But is that the argument "Is it better to drown in fresh water or salt?" You still drowned.
Note: You cannot conclusively prove that the lung cancer/ amputated foot you got was a direct cause of a specific cigarette. - else the tobacco companies would go bust.
Yes please, so my stonks in weed can moon
Absolutely no, cannabis is so much easier to get addicted than alchol.
Anyone voted yes should exchange all your alchol consumption to cannabis and come back re-vote
Prohibition has created a culture in Australia where users commonly mix their weed with tobacco to extend their supply and add an extra hit, this increases it's addictive qualities considerably. If you're worried about how addictive it is legalization is still the answer.
commonly mix their weed with tobacco
Maybe they should stop smoking, would be less addictive and toxic.
Of course, maybe they should make edibles instead? Another argument for legalisation.
With legalisation we would have companies using the trimmings from the production of manicured buds (sold for smoking/vaping) to produce edibles at a reasonable price. Currently the only option for the average user is to purchase buds on the black market, that’s expensive and not cost effective when compared to smoking - which also requires little skill.
There is no argument I can think of where legalisation has a net negative effect on the health of society.
@Cheaplikethebird: Or maybe all the other "vices" don't want an alternative muscling into their territory.
Personally I am not for or against. There is already enough opportunity to do damage right now. The bigger problem is not what is legal / illegal it is actually people themselves.
@netjock: Yeah that’s the reason. Lobby groups for the liquor and tobacco industry poured an obscene amount of money into the no campaign for the recent NZ referendum.
Haha yeah I kinda figured you were just debating for fun.
@Cheaplikethebird: So what’s the net positive effect on health of society then based on your smoking experience?
@OhNoUShiz: people will substitute alcohol/tobacco for smoking/vaping/consuming weed? can also tax make money and put that into addiction programs to help people
going by the ozbargain official poll, if there was a referendum it would be a wipe out in favor.
Maybe not as OzB is for people who are financially thrifty.
1/3 of Australians live pay check to pay check. There is still legs in the no camp yet.
Looking forward to seeing legal weed deals on ozbargain
Or the level of disappointment when they find it is a misprice and won't be honoured.
RRP debates
From the response one can assume that 80% of OzBarainer are pot-heads. 408 yes, 98 no. At the time.
Or just invested in Cannabis stocks.
You don't have to be a pot head to realise when something that is a good idea.
Don't think they should persecute users and the plant, while encouraging us to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes.
It'll help a lot of people (and my stocks)
Think the vote gives majority. Next topic please!
Yes, alcohol causes the most harm of any drug in the world and it's legal. Prohibition was tried and found to be a bad idea.
The war on drugs has been tried for 40 years and it hasn't worked.
Legalising weed would be a good place to start.Cancel medicare and legalise it all. Then taxpayers don't have to pay for other people's mistakes.
The real problem is road side testing. They need a way of measuring cannabis intoxication, rather than if it's in your system two weeks later. You should be able to smoke a joint on the weekend, and drive on Monday, without fear of losing your license.
The more you tell someone they cant do something, the more they want to do it just to spite you.
During the early 1900's in America, they banned the consumption of alcohol. The consumption actually increased because it was now an illegal activity.
Look at high school students, the reason they sneak out to buy alcohol and get drunk, is because its a thrill, their doing something they shouldnt. If you almost legalised all drugs, there wouldnt be people sneaking around and doing it for the thrill of it.
It is already starting to be legalized medically not recreational in canberra.
I doubt recreational use will be legal any time soon.
As for being safer than alcohol, in what context? Smoking weed is toxic, as is putting anything on fire and inhaling the product is toxic. Alcohol would seem safer for your throat/lungs.
I don't know if other people have had a similar reaction to cannabis, but I feel nauseous when I smell it. I used to live with a roommate who smoked a joint on the balcony almost daily and I had to go out for a walk every time he did. I would gag if I stayed. One time I tried to acclimate myself to the smell by staying in the apartment studying while he went for a smoko, but he forgot to close the window and it ended with me heaving over the toilet bowl. Even before throwing up, the smell just made me dizzy and disoriented (on top of the nausea).
I currently have a mate who comes over every now and then and is a regular marijuana smoker. He smokes out of this vape-like contraption that doesn't seem to leave behind that pungent smell.
Anyway, I just hope if weed is legalised that I can go out and not be constantly bombarded with the smell of cannabis. Sometimes I'll walk past a house and the strong stench of it alone makes me gag. That's my main concern.
Slippery slope arguments are bad.
As someone who works with people on a wide array of drugs I see problematic pot users and also many other users whose gateway was pot.
I am sure legalising it would result in more users and higher health bills.
But don't worry, the usual tax payers will just be taxed harder to fix up just another mess not of their making.
Just gonna say that because of its illegal status, there’s no where near the same amount of research on long term weed effects vs alcohol. Legalising it would at least help us work out how good/bad it actually is for people.
I'm a bit meh on the subject but I do remember a lady that was smoking pot and managed to crash on Sydney Harbour Bridge which caused huge delays.
The issue I have is that people would be more likely to smoke during the day rather than evenings and increasing the risk of driving impaired.
Edit: here's the article. Turns out she was fatigued as well and fell asleep.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/harbour-bridge-cr…The main issue I take with non-legalisation of Cannabis is that Tobacco remains legal (though restricted). Tobacco usage has essentially no related health benefits compared to the arguably limited social cost/benefit ratio of Marijuana such as pain, and nausea management for patients in palliative care, or with specific disease states. It seems pretty laughable to still allow Tobacco based products to be consumed considering the enormous social cost but claim that Marijuana is somehow far more dangerous.
But, Tobacco generates a lot of tax revenue.
Definitely Marijuana use, and products have been romanticised to a certain degree by popular culture, and mass media, and there are definitely associated risks with long-term usage, such as cancer, and chronic diseases like COPD, but I’d still always refer back to questioning why Tobacco gets a pass?
One interesting difference between alcohol and cannabis:
Moderate consumption alcohol, like in wine during and with meals, is positive and overall enhances the meal.
Also, if dinning with others, will bring interesting and vivid conversations, dialog, ideas, communication between those present enjoying the gathering.I don't see cannabis users will get together to have an intelligent, thought provoking conversation after consumption.
From what I read here is more a moment of solitude, alone, personal private time to become drugged for relaxation or escapism.
This is a very real difference between alcohol (as in wine and or "social" drinking) and the consumption of cannabis or other mind altering drugs.
Gee you wouldn’t be biased at all.
Have you ever smoked weed?
Weed enhances the <bleep> out of everything you eat.You've never truly tasted a dorito until you've eaten one after weed.
Exactly. I've also not heard a lot of musicians or philosophers talk about getting on the sauce to open their mind, weed on the other hand…
There are some big pros to legalising cannabis. You will never stop the consumption in Australia as it's easy to grow here, but you can control the market. If legalised:
Reduce the black market and the need to deal with dodgy dealers
Ability to control public health messaging (avoid tobacco mixes, eat/ingest instead)
Improved quality and availability of strain, organic and produced without toxic chemicals
Tax revenue to pay for the medical issues associated with cannabis
Finally get easy to source (reasonably priced) medicinal cannabis
Stop criminalising users for petty possession issues
Can finally sort out legal rules on cannabis and driving
Reduce alcohol consumption in some people, and associated violenceWas in Toronto at the beginning of 2020, the legal cannabis stores were like an Apple store with assistants roaming the store answering questions and taking your orders. The range of products included edibles (chocolate, gummi bears, shatter), all kinds of sativa and indica weed, pre-rolled, hashish etc. I had a couple of joints and gummi bears and promptly fell asleep - I have very low tolerance now.
There are medical issues associated with cannabis, however it's rarely attributable to murder or rape like alcohol or the multitude of health issues caused by alcohol.
Agree with everything except 1 point:
* eat/ingest insteadThis can end badly as you may not know when you've had enough or too much.
Smoking is an incredibly effective delivery method, with a near instantaneous result.Ingesting drugs can have a very delayed effect, and is further impacted by what you ate earlier, how much earlier, and so on.
The assumption you need more to feel affected can lead lots of vomit and/or freaking out.
i am very interested in cannabis' potential as a medicine or source of medicines.
the problem it has not been studied enough - for positive or negative effects - even though it has been around forever. that is a crime
i am too afraid to use it at this point.
Yes legalise it. And I don’t drink or smoke. But if others want too. That should be their right.
All we are doing now is allowing whole criminal underclass (Bikies for e.g.)to get wealthy by producing marijuana selling it illegally and making massive profits.
Let it become legal. Charge registered and controlled growers a fortune to have the right to produce it market it sell it. Then charge a massive tax (like we do on cigarettes) on anyone who wants to buy it. 100% of the revenue generated going back into the health system to fund more hospitals doctors nurses whatever is needed to look after all the people who will have psychosis, mental disorders, lung cancer whatever from smoking the stuff and still leave enough revenue generated from taxes of the sale to do some good.
Better than making some criminal organisation wealthy.
If everyone took 30 minutes to look up the accidental death and addiction statistics of prescription opiods, I think they'd change their mind of even the most basic form of CBD treatments pretty quickly.
Last year Cannabis generated 8B towards the economy. Imagine if the Australian government could use that potential revenue to build a 'high' speed rail from Melbourne to Sydney
Worked with people high on Cannabis, it was dreadful and basically thought they could get away with it.
Yet only once has 1 person come in work drunk, he was caught and sent home within the hour.
Do you work at eb games?
It’s complicated gauging the effects of a dose for females because of cannabis binding to oestrogen receptors. So it can vary depending on the menstrual cycle. How do you regulate that when it comes to intoxication laws?
Weed should remain banned and offenders should be locked up. Predominantly the only people who care about these types of things are drug takers.
Weed should remain banned and offenders should be locked up.
It’s all well and good to say lock offenders up for having marijuana a joint or even substantial amount on themselves.
But prisons are expensive and keeping inmates secure and in prison its horrendously Expensive.https://www.justiceaction.org.au/ourposition/69-prisons/233-…
The cost of running the NSW prison system in 2002 was over $530 million per year, up from $341 million in 1995-96. That worked out to be about $80 each year for every person in New South Wales in 2002 . God knows how expensive is now in 2021.
For minimum security offenders in minimum security prison in 2002 Cost per day ($A)) $223.03 for female inmate
Information Source from above
Bureau of crime statistics and research, (L15) NSW Drug Court Evaluation. (2002).By locking people up for minor drug offences leaves less resources for Tafes schools hospitals teachers nurses police officers etc. etc.
If you give most people a choice between more hospitals or schools or prisons I think I know what most would want. Not prisons. Especially if that involves sending people to jail who have small amounts of marijuana for their own personal use.
I wish this poll could influence legislation!
there is no reason for vocal minorities to influence legislation.
I understand that you're biased, but to imply they are the minority/outlier is unequivocally wrong.
"In 2019, for the first time, more people said they supported the legalisation of cannabis than opposed it (41% compared with 37%). It was also the first time the proportion of Australians who supported cannabis being used regularly by adults was greater than the proportion that supported regular tobacco smoking (19.6% compared with 15.4%)."
When a government doesn't allow platforms for the general populace to make a democratic decision on an issue, then using their voice is the only legal alternative.
Source: https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/illicit-use-of-drugs/nationa…
but to imply they are the minority/outlier is unequivocally wrong
hardly… most people would not want it legalised.
And they wondered how he dealt with stress so well,
Wild guess? You could say he stay sedated
Some say buddha'd, some say fadedAnd that's how it's done. We'll done New York…
https://abcnews.go.com/US/york-legalizes-recreational-mariju…
That article is about a meth addict who killed a weed smoker. It literally never says that Collins ever did cannabis.
Meth is (profanity) and stupidly addictive, to the point where people club their friends to death because they wont drive them to get meth.