How old are you and what's your financial plan?
I'm curious to hear different opinions so I can improve my own.
What's Your Financial Plan?
deme on 06/02/2021 - 23:15
Comments
LOL
the "Australian Dream" rightio. Hahaha
Buy an IP in ten years time, rent it out for $50 p/w profit
Why would you do that when you can negatively gear?
Equity maaaaaaate.
Just sit back and count my millions after I win a few matches on the ATP tour and make the top 20.
Niche. I actually saw that match - Tomic did not phone it in IMHO.
steal money, put it all in btc and doge and chill
Just like Stefan Qin.
yike went to school with the dude, its always the ones you don't suspect
I'm 38, "wasted" a lot of money in my youth where I could definitely have been in a much better financial position had I chosen to adult earlier but don't regret the experiences I've had along the way. Got a family with 3 kids, 4th on the way so there isn't a huge amount for investing.
Going forward from here, we're just starting to build our own place, so pay that off as quick as we can. No dreams to invest in property, if/when we own it, we'll move to something bigger/better.
I salary sacrifice around 5% of my pay which my employer matches so pumping around 20% in to super, relatively low fee fund, high growth option. Thinking about possibly gearing half of it but don't know if it's worth the risk.
I also get an employee share scheme thru work where they will match them after holding for 3 years. That pretty much covered our house deposit so will start building that up again shortly.Once the house is finished and we can free up some "play money", it will likely go in to Vanguard.
Where can I learn more about 'Vanguard' and how to invest in it?
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/565869
Don't be out off by the name it's just designed to be set and forget
I would advise just on a home country basis, a company that is effectively offering the same products (Betashares), at the same or lower MER than Vanguard, being and Australian company and all.
@deme: Just go to betashares website and look at the 'diversified' offerings.
Honestly I think they have too many products, but I like what they're doing…which is giving people more options.
@Oofy Doofy: Most of betashares products have considerably higher management fees. A200 is I think their only stock that is cheaper than similar stocks offered by vanguard.
@Mr Haj: Vanguard also don't offer the same products…
Betashares diversified options (very recent product availability), pound for pound are better spread aka more diversified than vanguard's all-in-one offerings, their MER is lower too, though to be fair the tax drag on them will level to the same MER as the vanguard offerings
At the end of the day Betashares is Australian and Vanguard is not. Totally up to whoever thinks that is important or not.
If you could go back, would you choose to have less kids and more money saved up?
No way. They've all been planned, you can't put a price on the value they bring IMO but I do get it's not for everyone.
you can't put a price on the value they bring
Or create. Assuming you are pro-creating future lawyers and professional athletes aren't you?
Did you your super lost any $ during last crash ( March 2020 ) ? What are they gonna do about the future crash ? The up coming crash which is inevitable, and indeed mighty. Something to consider …
It dropped around 13% in March but recovered. Like shares, you've only lost money if you sell at the low point. Unless you pulled your super out right after it crashed, you should have regained those losses by now.
If you look back thru history, there's a lot more positive years than negative. As long as your gains outweigh the losses then there's no issue.
What would you invest in if you're convinced super is going to crash. Given that most super funds invest across domestic and international shares, property and occassionally fixed interest
13%??? Must be conservative. Didn't the share market drop like 30?
While the USA's indices continue to make ATH, ASX 200 (XJO) is suffering, it not even recover from the drop last year . However, as the rules of thumb 'what comes up must goes down'
Just a few example:
https://www.tradingview.com/x/OekSWogi/
https://www.tradingview.com/x/dJBgO9d9/
https://www.tradingview.com/x/tQ7E332z/These red & yellow lines must be cross from above …
What would you invest in if you're convinced super is going to crash
IMHO indices and share market ( globally, or at least the WEST anyway ) will have a big correction/reset. Personally, I would ( already ) go into bitcoin, or precious metal. As long as the dollar heads South, crypto will heads North https://www.tradingview.com/x/531Z2LlF/. Bitcoin is the best performance asset out there, simply coz the rich want to protect their purchasing power …
Printing billion dollars from thin air isnt a good way to prosper …
Disclaimer: Everything here is my opinion, none of them are finance advice, please consults your finance adviser for a proper advice
Invest invest and invest, especially when you are young. Work smart not hard. Good to take more calculated risks and diversify your portfolio, can't stress this enough. Know too many young people spending crazy amounts of money on nice cars and luxury holidays and having every remaining cent inside their bank accounts earning 0.5% interest. Good luck with your retirement. The retirement crisis is only going to get worse.
Aim is to retire in 10 years time by 45 and do the things that I like with the missus and the kids.
'Work smart not hard.' … ?
Erm, why not do both? If you think that others out there are thinking "I'll be fine as long as I 'work hard', even if I 'work dumb'", you are underestimating your fellow Australians. Your 'message' is so simplistic that it is essentially meaningless.
If you think that others out there are thinking "I'll be fine as long as I 'work hard', even if I 'work dumb'", you are underestimating your fellow Australians.
Strong disagree. The overwhelming majority of people I meet do not work smart even though they may work hard. They put in more and more hours without reward, continue to slave away in jobs they don't particularly enjoy whilst passing over new opportunities.
IMO "working smart" is about knowing how to play the game, who to form connections with, when to jump ship, keeping an eye out for where the next boom is and equipping yourself to take advantage of that. It's about not trying to hold onto a dying industry, for instance.
As a point of comparison, there were two guys I went to uni with who graduated with degrees in mechanical engineering. They both loved cars and went to to work in the automotive industry, one for a major car manufacturer (Toyota) and another for a smaller parts manufacturer. They both worked hard, but one of the guys saw the end of the Australian automotive industry years before it eventually collapsed and got a job in the booming mining sector (again, as a mechanical engineer). The other guy stayed in the automotive industry until the end when he was let go. It was almost impossible for him to find a job given the huge outflux of similarly qualified people. He was unemployed for almost a year, then decided to go back to uni and do another degree, all of which added up to time lost.
That's it. Took the words out of my mouth. I guess i meant working hard is good but working smart is more important for success. Slogging off everyday and not knowing how to network and be on the lookout for opportunities is not ideal. I used to be like that when i was very young, worked like a dog but everyone around me was moving up faster as they know how to network.
But i do understand everyone's busy and might not have time for these things. Different priorities i guess. For me, i just want some peace and not having to chase money my whole life and some sacrifices now is fine with me.
It's fine if you find this advice useless or think it's simple. Sometimes, it's just that simple. Great if you have your own methods for success.
Well I believe working a 9 to 5 job earning somewhere around the national average is already working hard and not smart. Why? Because it's what most people are doing. When you're doing what everyone else is doing it becomes the standard and there's no point of differentiation on which to excel.
But then again, what do I know? I'm just a fool working a soul sapping 9 to 5 job……ha ha ha….ehhh
'Because it's what most people are doing.'
Has it occurred to you that perhaps it is 'what most people are doing' precisely because it is the smart thing to do? Wander out the front of your house, and note which direction the TV aerials on top of everyone else's houses are pointing. See how they are all pointing in the same direction? The reason for that is that that is the 'smartest' direction to point your TV aerial; because it results in the best transmission.
Sure, you could go embark on a 'point of differentiation' and point your aerial in a different direction. The result would be that your TV reception would be effed. What I am trying to say is that simply plugging/advocating a 'point of differentiation' is naive. Sure, you could seek out a 'point of differentiation' in an effort to 'excel', but what this usually boils down to is taking a somewhat unquantifiable risk in the hope that it will ultimately pay off—rather than sending you broke/eliminating your savings.
If you have no one relying on you to support them I guess it is fine to choose what risks you take, but if you do it is arguably better to ensure that you can at least guarantee them a degree of long-term stability. Work hard at what you are qualified at, and if that is not making you as much money as you would like, 'suck up' your original decision to get qualified in that, get qualified in something else in your spare time, then work hard at that.
@GnarlyKnuckles: I disagree with this radio analogy.
Status quo always changes.
The market always changes.Just look at what the internet and how social media is changing the game.
@compound: I didn't mention the 'status quo' (or the radio, for that matter ;P).
I am simply stating that the most reliable way to earn decent money is to get suitably qualified, then work for it.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps it is 'what most people are doing' precisely because it is the smart thing to do? Wander out the front of your house, and note which direction the TV aerials on top of everyone else's houses are pointing. See how they are all pointing in the same direction? The reason for that is that that is the 'smartest' direction to point your TV aerial; because it results in the best transmission.
Smartass analogy that is largely irrelevant. Unlike TV aerials which only have one purpose, humans can have multiple different purposes and find different things valuable in life.
Differentiating yourself or taking risks isn't just about seeking a higher monetary payoff. For some, being different is something they enjoy, trying new things, possibly failing, learning, and everything in between.
I don't disagree with your advice, but you've turned it into a moral thing, trying to preach what is best for others and disagreeing when they say they fundamentally want something different.
@p1 ama: Yo chicken parma, re:
'Differentiating yourself or taking risks isn't just about seeking a higher monetary payoff …' (blah blah, bagging out my focus on monetary payoff, etc.)
You must have somehow missed the actual title of this entire thread, which is:
'What's Your Financial Plan?'
No worries, I forgive you, and you're welcome.
:-P
@GnarlyKnuckles: Work hard: put your TV aerial up like everyone else and enjoy good quality TV signal.
Work smart: don't have a tv aerial. further yourself in time everyone else is watching TV. Oh and watch what you want when you want using streaming or downloading.
Your analogy shows quite clearly that conventional means does not mean it's smart for everyone.
It's a balance though. You don't want to be too old and realise you didn't experience enough while in your prime.
You know the saying, you work hard and sacrafice all the things you want to do until the day you die, so you can finally do them when you retire
Sounds like a great plan Hodler
Guessing you've got quite a bit of crypto?
Lotto.
BItcoin.
It used to be real estate.
Bitcoin you say.. i approve.
I'm hodling both hodler.. One's costing me money.
Bitcoin will eat real estate up and spit it out in the next 5 years
Put it all on Black.
Now that's a plan I can get behind….!
Max super contributions to get a decent balance early. Leftover savings to indexes and gamble a little bit on individual stocks.
What is a "decent balance" ?
It differs between individuals and what you want out of retirement. I'm aiming for $2m for both of us - and am currently on track for this.
Are you building in a plan for early retirement or just pushing it all into super?
@Pyrocentric: Not early retirement (retirement scares the shit out of me) just maxing out super to get the tax benefits and to provide for a nice, comfortable retirement.
I have two "hard truths" that I learned throughout my life.
1) Get a good GPA. I'm not even kidding.
When I was in uni, so many kids who had potential (genuinely smart kids) just wasted their life away partying and getting smashed every weekend. Graduated with terrible GPAs and were lucky to get a job that paid marginally higher than minimum wage (when you divide their salary by actual hours worked).
Then I had friends who still partied and got smashed, but cared a little more about their studies, got near perfect GPAs and got salaries basically twice as high as the other kids. The gap never closes and the extra amount made when young compounds to huge amounts later on in life, especially given you can save a huge amount when you're young, don't have a family and live at home.
2) Get married early. Again, I'm not even kidding either. (Or at least get into a committed relationship where you can pool finances).
Being single is really expensive. I don't just mean the amount you spend on going out and the like (which is generally cut massively after getting married), but things like rent, bills, furniture, living expenses…etc. all practically double up.
Also, getting married early makes saving for a house much easier too. Were you saving $50,000 a year before getting married? Make that $100,000 a year now.
I guess an addendum to this would be 3) Don't get divorced, because that always seems to ruin people financially.
I'm very, very lucky in that I meet both of these criteria - I graduated with a good GPA, found a good job, worked hard, got promoted and was earning six figures in my 3rd year of work. I also got married at age 23. Both my wife and I had basically spent all of our money up until that point living the good life. We knuckled down for two years, saved around $80,000 per year together and bought a house at age 25.
Had I not gotten married at 23, it would have probably taken me over twice as long to have saved up that much, probably till I was 30.
Apart from that, remember that you make money to spend it. Invest what you can, but never at the expense of living life. I had the misfortune of losing two friends in their 20s. That experience has always reminded me that life is fragile, and to always make sure that I'm never putting off my happiness to another day when I can have it today.
If I may add my thoughts to your excellent pointers:
invest in yourself; don't waste yourself: it's such a theorycraft but one should really try out not just once but multiple times until you find the 'right way' for yourself. It may be put a dollar in coin bank every day, or pick a new skill to learn every 3 months. "don't waste yourself" is flip side of the coin: watch a movie is fine, binge a TV series after series is not; spoil yourself with a fancy meal every now and then is fine, but not so when you get silly drunk then have to deal with hang over the next day and potentially swing your mental state for following days.
stay curious: one thing I see around me and my time, is how much opportunities are out there. You may always want to try stock/margin/crypto but been procrastinating about it, then don't, get your feet wet and see how you feel about it. Cousin working from home doing dropshipping? give that a shot as it could be the career change you sought. How about growing plants? you heard people are making big bucks selling succulents that virtually grow by itself, maybe you can be good at it. Opportunities are out there and nothing will change if you not trying to seize it.
practice persistency of all kind: one thing I'm lack of and wish I had received guidance that can improve ever so slightest. It can be about setting up a good habit (jogging, keep track of spending) or maintaining certain aspect of life (people connection, health).
Re:
put a dollar in coin bank every day
try stock/margin/crypto
selling succulents that virtually grow by itself
… these are all clearly 'warm/fuzzy' little ideas, but absolute BS in reality. $1 a day into a 'coin bank' = $365 per year. Uninvested. Completely useless. 'stock/margin/crypto' is almost the opposite of that. Without any proper explanation, that advice is so 'euphemistic/vague' that it is also utterly meaningless. As for 'selling succulents' … I'm just going to assume that was some kind of tongue-in-cheek joke.
In the absence of any obvious alternatives, the best way to 'make money' is to actually GO TO WORK.
Sounds crazy, huh … but it works.
I'll need to be able to convey my idea better and I think that's what I shall improve on.
My comment was well intended and certainly wasn't satire. It's a bit self defeating to think something is a BS if you haven't tried it? Even if it did not work out for you, there were still something you can learn from.
Besides, my examples wasn't meant to be directives that would be irresponsible to think reader should do what I said. I was trying to convey one shouldn't be shy to give a shot on things one isn't comfortable with, won't that be the most organic way to discover growth opportunities for yourself? And if you check out enough self-help books, this is also a general idea they will put forward: get out of your comfort zone, be adventurous.
I'm happy to take criticism (and thanks for your feedback). And yes, GO TO WORK, have a stable career path for some time while try new things on the side. There's no secret path to success, it's just that path of success is different to everyone.
I guess an addendum to this would be 3) Don't get divorced, because that always seems to ruin people financially.
Erm … I reckon a huge percentage of OzBers will be a bit bemused by how you just kinda' … 'transiently glossed over' that major flaw in your advice …
In the vast majority of cases divorce is decided upon by one of the members of a couple (not the other), then it inevitably goes ahead. It is not the 'optional decision' that you erroneously portray it to be.
Lighten up, it was a joke. But that being said, there are plenty of ways to reduce your chances of divorce. Don't get married to the wrong person, continue to invest in your relationship, find ways to work through problems…etc.
And if all else fails, read the last line of what I wrote - you never know what happens so be happy whilst you can.
Prenup?
One of the biggest ways to avoid divorce contradicts one of your points: "don't marry young".
You're still growing up in your early to mid (and for some people late) 20's and the person you marry at 20 won't be the same person when you're 30. Sometimes you gamble and you grow together, or grow in ways that complement each other, but quite often, you grow apart, or into a person who suddenly wants completely different things out of life than they did at 20. My best advice is: don't rush into things. Stay engaged for a few years before tying the knot and never get married before 25. It ultimately won't change how you live with your partner, but it may save you some heartache down the track.
@Charmoffensive: I think my point was misconstrued - I never suggested anybody rush out and marry the next person they meet. I actually agree with you completely for that matter. Obviously it makes sense to be sure you want to marry someone before you do.
You seem to have misunderstood what I said. Getting married early being good for finances is completely different to saying that everyone should get married early. The first is a statistically verifiable fact which has been studied broadly (see below), whereas the second is an individual value judgement as to what each person feels is appropriate for their own life and situation.
E.g. see: https://www.worldfinance.com/wealth-management/for-richer-fo…
Which says:
In 2005, the most comprehensive study on the economics of marriage was published. Written by Jay Zagorsky, the report, Marriage and Divorce’s Impact on Wealth, closely followed the net worth of individuals throughout their 20s, 30s and early 40s, and found that the wealth of married respondents increased by around 14 percent for each year they were wed. “Compared to being single, married people almost doubled their wealth, increasing it over 93 percent,” said Zagorsky.
I think a good analogy would be like me saying that driving a fuel efficient car is good for finances. Some people view driving a fast car as more important and an enjoyable part of life. That's fine. At the end of the day, advice is just that - advice.
You're still growing up in your early to mid (and for some people late) 20's and the person you marry at 20 won't be the same person when you're 30.
I agree, though, that said, I know plenty of people who know exactly what they want in their early 20's and some people in their 40's who are nowhere near settled down and seem to have a new girlfriend every fortnight, so YMMV!!
My best advice is: don't rush into things. Stay engaged for a few years before tying the knot and never get married before 25. It ultimately won't change how you live with your partner, but it may save you some heartache down the track.
Having had friends go through divorce and studying the statistics on divorce myself (my wife is an academic who studies family relationships, including divorce, for a living), the overwhelming majority of divorces are amicable, either with both sides simply agreeing that they want different things, or both sides hating each other so much they're glad to be rid of each other. Very rarely do they turn into long drawn out battles over assets and custody of children…etc. so I think divorce is being painted out as something worse than it usually is.
That said, I'll abstain on whether one should marry before 25 or not till I'm in my 60s or 70s and can look back with some more clarity. For every couple who regretted getting married before 25, I know of people who regretted not getting married to a great guy or girl they dated "back in the day" and letting a great person go.
One more hard truth about life. It does not go as planned.
2 can sometimes make 3 harder. People who marry young are far more likely to get divorced. I’ve certainly seen this amoungst my friends that married young, though most have moved onto second marriages.
The right age and person to marry (if people choose to at all) is pretty different for everyone. I would have been a mess if I married the first person who wanted to marry me when I was younger. I’m very financially secure now, got married in my early 30s.
Classic survivorship bias post.
Yes and no. There's always survivorship bias in any advice given because advice from those who "made it" tend to be the advice that people want to hear.
But that said, I think what I'm saying is pretty non-controversial. Getting a higher GPA and focusing on starting a family is, IMO, solid advice that I wish I was told when I was younger. I was very lucky in the sense that things lined up well for me, but I wish people told me that my GPA mattered rather than "oh fk it bro, just come out with us tonight", and that people told me I should focus on getting into a long term relationship with the right person rather than short term flings.
Again take it for what you will.
I think getting married at 23 is considered early now, most people I know are completely different people in their late 20's to who they were just 6 years ago. Being committed that early can remove options that would otherwise be more lucrative too.
@Project A: Of course, my point wasn't that everyone should get married early (even if some might have interpreted it that way), it is that getting married early is often a good financial decision. Making the best financial decisions isn't all life is about (hence my last point - make the decisions that will make you happy). I think that point seems to be lost on some.
@compound: Yes.
There's plenty of research on this if you bothered to look. I'm not the type of person to just pontificate things.
https://www.worldfinance.com/wealth-management/for-richer-fo…
Key point:
In 2005, the most comprehensive study on the economics of marriage was published. Written by Jay Zagorsky, the report, Marriage and Divorce’s Impact on Wealth, closely followed the net worth of individuals throughout their 20s, 30s and early 40s, and found that the wealth of married respondents increased by around 14 percent for each year they were wed. “Compared to being single, married people almost doubled their wealth, increasing it over 93 percent,” said Zagorsky.
Again, this is in the context of wealth, if you want to spend your 20's banging hot babes, that's great. Wealth isn't the be all and end all.
@p1 ama: No need to be condescending. It was a genuine question.
I am not in that sphere so I don't tune into it.
Just keen to see your basis/rationale.
Getting a good GPA for a position will be more or less important per industry - source: I got smashed every weekend and have been killing it ever since I graduated. I'm in a very similar position to you about a year later/older (due to probably spending longer at university with a dual degree).
Imo it's much more important to get some relevant experience under your belt if possible - in fact in my industry very high GPAs are tainted by the same brush as PhD's in that Australians don't want to hire you and won't respect you for it
lol who gives a shit about GPA…. TAFE graduates are killing it in IT industry bro
Lol TAFE. Fk outta here.
I work in IT and I don't know of anyone with [only] a tafe qualification. There are people who have degrees in things other than IT, and some people who've been in the industry for 30 years who might have only diplomas, but I don't know of any recent tafe grads doing complex work.
That's not to say that you can't, just that most don't IME.
I'd debate that.
In my experience (8th ranked University in Australia), i came out with my cohort largely with an average GPA, many with high GPA's took prestigious consulting jobs at the big4 only to be shafted on pay 55-70k a year, while many lower ranked ones went into government straight onto 75-90k a year.The one's who earned more in many cases were those that went to government, yes down the track those at the Big4 might get rewarded but there's also a bit of give and take with regards to lifestyle. and 5 years of missing out on 10k a year adds up.
GPA isn't the be all and end all, especially with the mining industry basically sending your income to the moon with a negligible GPA. Had friends that failed half their units at uni, graduated and immediately went onto $150k with zero experience. It was the same as ATAR scores, the emphasis is that it'll decide your life where in reality there's ways to play the system to work around it.
Big4 definitely there to suck in the uninformed. Like 1 in 10 make it to senior manager and 1 in 50 make it to director. Even then it is long hour Vs pay.
Lucky are those who do a few years and then move fast outside of big4. Unfortunately a lot of big4 do themselves a disservice believing it is the pinnacle.
Couldn't agree more.
Had mates go from 70k a year at EY to 110k a year in gov.The big4 are there to make the partners money.
Everyone else is just cannon fodder
"Had friends that failed half their units at uni, graduated and immediately went onto $150k with zero experience." that sounds like a completely believable scenario
Some would call Bullshit, but its 100% true. If cleaners are on 100k+ then anyone with a degree would logically get 140-150
The mining industry was and is calling out for engineers and geologists and were literally throwing 6 figures at vacation students to go up there and help out on drill rigs
@Drakesy: Why would a mining company pay a know-nothing graduate engineer with poor marks 150k? There are plenty of engineering graduates who have decent marks who would jump at graduate salary of even 100k.
These mythical high graduate salaries would be for horrible working conditions; some remote sh**hole mine with 14 day straight rosters, 12 hours days, overtime etc.
@qvinto: Average FIFO salary is close to $100k.
The reason it pays so much is out where the jobs are the weather is hot. It is tens of kilometers from the next small town and even at the town there isn't much.
OzB had this conversation about why we shouldn't expect people to relocate because they got social life and families.
These mythical high graduate salaries would be for horrible working conditions; some remote sh**hole mine with 14 day straight rosters, 12 hours days, overtime etc.
One of my friends is a mechanical engineer who did a stint in WA as FIFO. What you say is true, but the reason the salary is so high is because people wouldn't want to take it otherwise. He lasted for a total of 1.5 years before moving back to Melbourne and cutting his salary by 30%.
What you say is probably a bit exaggerated, but he corroborates everything, particularly with the living conditions in some of these places and FIFO work meaning that you have little stability in your life (as most other people don't operate on the same FIFO schedule) and it wreaking havoc on your mental health.
many with high GPA's took prestigious consulting jobs at the big4 only to be shafted on pay 55-70k a year, while many lower ranked ones went into government straight onto 75-90k a year.
What are you talking about? Big4 consulting is nowhere near prestigious. They take a huge number of graduates every year. Unless things have changed, you went to Big4 if you were a dunce and nobody else wanted you. They were literally bottom of the barrel. I still remember Deloitte offering me $57k after graduating…
Prestigious = top tier investment banks (e.g. Goldman), FAANG (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google), MBB consulting firms (e.g. McKinsey), boutique private equity and sales/trading firms…etc. who only take a few graduates a year.
If you look at the CVs of many at these places (and I have FWIW), they're almost all top graduates with university medals, dean's honours, multiple prizes…etc. along with top tier internships and extra-curriculars.
If you want to get into Big4, then yes, who cares about GPA, you can easily get in with a high 60's, low 70's.
GPA isn't the be all and end all
I never said that it was, neither do I think that it is.
If you're talking about getting a job specifically, there's a lot of factors involved including your experience, CV/resume, how good you are with people, how likeable you are in an interview, the demand for your skills, how smart you are, a bit of luck with market forces…etc. and of course, your GPA. I'm the first to admit that your GPA isn't the only factor.
So I'm not sure what you're "debating", unless you're claiming that GPA isn't important at all (which I think is disingenuous). Of course, there are many successful people with low GPA's. However, when we discuss these things, we have to talk about averages and keeping factors outside of our control largely constant.
If we do, then getting a better GPA is one of the easiest ways to make yourself more competitive, especially in certain industries. If you want to get into an investment banking, sales/trading, management consulting career at one of the top tiers (not Big4), you have no real chance unless you have a good GPA. Many people I know with averages in the 70s were outright rejected.
In my experience (8th ranked University in Australia), i came out with my cohort largely with an average GPA
I might also add that an average GPA is far, far better than a poor GPA. Graduating with a 65 leaves many doors open, graduating with a 55 unfortunately doesn't. That's what I was referring to.
Perhaps we agree more than we think.
Conventional education and marriage are way over rated.
Generally speaking, I would suggest that you need to think and act differently to the herd to make serious coin. Important also to have life experiences.
Generally speaking, I would suggest that you need to think and act differently to the herd to make serious coin. Important also to have life experiences.
Agreed, but I would also say that very few people have what it takes to be different from the herd and people who do have what it takes generally don't need life advice.
Giving life advice applicable to an average person so that they can find a decent job, have a place to live, climb the ladder, find some level of stability is very different from taking bold risks to become the best. Up to each person to chart the course of their life ultimately.
Getting married and staying married is 50:50 at best. Considering the comparable effort and outcome, probably better to put it all on black.
Not sure how old you are, but most of this doesn't resonate with me (I'm in my early 30's). Especially the getting the good GPA.
No employer has ever asked to see my GPA at university, and I don't even work in an industry remotely related to my degree now. I work in tech with a fairly decent salary and we don't even require degrees (this is slowly becoming the norm in the industry). You can learn everything at university relatively easily via other means, and employers are recognising that… if you can demonstate you know your s***, you constantly learn and adapt (and some experience)… a university degree is just a piece of paper.
My advice would be, if you know what your career path is and can gain experience, learn on the cheap while you're young, work in the industry you're aiming for (in the years you'd spend at uni), try and aim for that. A university degree is a huge expense that is likely only your ticket to your first job. I understand this doesn't really ring true for legacy/traditional industries (Accounting, Law, Medicine etc.), but in tech, experience and learning is constant and super fast paced (and a university degree in that space is likely 10 years behind anyway).
Also, making a relationship decision to prop up your long term financial position is terrible advice. You mentioned divorce… thatis the often house of cards outcome when you commit to a relationship early in life.
I agree with the last part though, and similarly lost two friends young.
Don't be a stingy so and so getting wealthy who watches every single dollar and never has fun…. that's the working hard sentiment I feel is being expressed in this thread. Work smart and invest your money into something that allows you to not worry about being a slave and skimping till the day you die.
I work in tech with a fairly decent salary and we don't even require degrees (this is slowly becoming the norm in the industry).
I don't doubt your own personal experience, but "tech" is a pretty broad brush. You could be doing anything from admin/support to AI research and still be in tech. If you want to become a sysadmin, you can probably get by without a degree. Do you want to work on analytics at Amazon? Not only will you need a degree, but you'll likely need to graduate with honours near the top of your class at a top tier uni to even have any chance.
I understand this doesn't really ring true for legacy/traditional industries (Accounting, Law, Medicine etc.), but in tech, experience and learning is constant and super fast paced (and a university degree in that space is likely 10 years behind anyway).
Except what you term a "legacy/traditional industry" is still a huge, huge proportion of what many people want to go into. You can't just brush those industries aside as some exception.
At the end of the day, advice is just advice, people should work out what's best for them. Getting a university degree in and of itself isn't simply about getting a better job or getting paid more either. I enjoyed my time at uni, made some really good friends, had some really good experiences. It's a perfect time to start having some money, not too many responsibilities and lots of things to do. I'm personally glad I had a chance to pursue my hobbies, travel, make new friends, develop myself…etc. whilst I was in uni before work took over.
Also, making a relationship decision to prop up your long term financial position is terrible advice. You mentioned divorce… thatis the often house of cards outcome when you commit to a relationship early in life.
You're taking what I'm saying to the extreme to make a counterpoint. I never said people should get married to prop up their long term financial position. I basically said that getting married is often a good life decision, from the point of finances, family support, stability…etc. all of which you should take into consideration when you decide when/if you are going to get married. Just because getting married is good for certain things doesn't mean that everyone should rush out and get married to the next person they meet.
Agreed on the GPA. The only person who's looked at my academic transcript since I graduated was me - and thas was because I was cleaning out my filing cabinet.
I think the biggest thing is to get experience in your desired industry before you graduate. I worked a typical student job to support myself through university and I think I harmed myself by not coming out with more industry experience.
Not gonna argue with the pooled resources comment - but marriage isn't the only option! Happily in a long term relationship with my partner of 5 years with no intention of marriage.
However, I do want to engage in this GPA (or WAM as I believe it's more often termed in Aus) debate. In my field (social science/policy) I've never been asked about my WAM. Never come up at work, never come up in an interview or application process. I think my WAM ended up at about 70 for my undergrad.
I could have easily got 90+ if I spent my weekends and nights studying instead of working and socialising. But guess what? For most people in most industries, the soft skills you gain from working, socialising, maybe volunteering in uni clubs etc will take you a lot further than good grades. I have stories to tell in interviews about the various shitty job situations I found myself in, how I helped out at uni clubs as treasurer or VP or whatever, and how I have a good emotional intelligence. Those things are all harder to teach and show that you are likely to be a good colleague. A good WAM just shows that you are a good student. Not always a useful thing in the workplace.
Thank you for attending my TED talk.
Being single is really expensive.
hahaha omg I have to laugh at that one, do you have any idea how much money wives spend?
what's your financial plan?
Wait for the inevitable economically-induced TEOTWAKI SHTF scenario and then form a marauding group of bandits to hunt down and lynch everyone with more possessions than yourself and/or anyone who challenges your dominance. Establish a camp on the outskirts of a metropolitan area, accumulate enough members, status and deterrence factor to annex the metropolitan area and live out the rest of your days in some kind of Mad Max: Fury Road dystopia.
That scenario is evitable
My retirement plan is being in an apple picking commune. And when apple picking robots become cheaper than the food humans need to eat to sustain apple picking, then I guess I'll get a certificate in servicing the apple picking robots.
Work hard in a 9 to 5 + overtime job. Eat ramen while saving every dollar for a deposit. Get a mortgage and lock-in a 30-year debt. Buy an IP in ten years time, rent it out for $50 p/w profit and hope that the tenants don't trash the place. Rinse and repeat until retirement.