Any reason to buy a Tesla over a Hyundai Ioniq?

cannedhams on 03/07/2020 - 10:25

Well lads, I'm getting older and I don't get around much anymore. Can't tell you the last time I drove more than 200 kilometres and my car is just a runabout for the most part. Plus going to the servo and bantering with the grease monkeys seems like such a minor inconvenience. And frankly my hybrid car just isn't virtue signalling enough for my middle class liberal sensibilities. So I suppose its time I finally surrender my last remaining red blood cell and buy an electric car. Amiright ladies?

I know a couple of people who have the Hyundai Ionic and quite a few more who have a Tesla. Now I am a tosspot but I am also on Ozbargain so the price point is still important to me. The Ioniq has a range of 200ks and costs $45K. The Tesla has a range of 300ks and is 70K. On paper, I'd favour the Ionic.

The people with Ionics swear up and down its a fantastic car, efficient, apart from change the tyres every couple of years there is basically no maintenance. But the people with Teslas say no way, Tesla is the market leader, there's so much new tech in a Tesla, an Ioniq is just a Korean dogbox with a battery. Have you seen Tesla's share price? Market cap Blah blah.

My impression is that Tesla users have more than a whiff of Apple sheep mentality about them. The iphone of cars. They always seem to follow Elon Musk on twitter for some reason. And lets face it, Hyundai is a major maker and isnt going anywhere.

So Im probably tending towards the Ioniq. But am I missing something?

Automotive Hyundai Tesla Inc

Comments

              • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2020 - 22:35
                -1

                @Shiq1: Well it's not a $500k Porsche sports car. It's a family saloon, I'm not sure what you were expecting. (And you weren't responding to me).

        • netjock on 05/07/2020 - 13:04
          -1

          Ludicrous mode is the same description as those with more money than sense.

          • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2020 - 13:17
            -4

            @netjock: In English please?

            • netjock on 05/07/2020 - 13:35
              +3

              @[Deactivated]: Put it through google translate and got the same result, maybe you need to go back to school.

  • Euphemistic on 03/07/2020 - 12:48
    +3

    Drive the model 3, ionic and Kona. Buy your favourite. It will also depend on how fat your wallet is and wether you think that the extra $ will make a difference when you drive.

    For an A-B car, sacrificing some features to save quite a few dollars is probably worth it.

    • netjock on 05/07/2020 - 13:37

      Not if you want your car to reflect your fat wallet. Or just how much the bank is willing to lend you based on your cash flow.

  • Bid Sniper on 03/07/2020 - 13:11
    +15

    If you barely drive, why waste $60k-$100K on a car depreciating?

    • Poppin on 03/07/2020 - 13:34
      +8

      This. The less you drive, the more you should get an ICE car. If you want to feel the most high and mighty, keep the car you have, that will save the most emissions.

      • cannedhams on 03/07/2020 - 23:56

        I drive a fair bit, but only short distances. As does the spouse.

        • abuch47 on 04/07/2020 - 21:40
          +1

          As much as I love PEV. 2nd hand ICE is a better option for you.

          • Bluberry on 05/07/2020 - 18:47
            -1

            @abuch47: I love ice too but hard to find without getting busted by cops these days.

            Not sure about second hand ice though :)

        • Bid Sniper on 05/07/2020 - 12:34
          +1

          Small hatchback runabout will be fine. Low depreciation, low insurance, dont have to care about damaged (intentional and not).

          make no sense buying a expensive car as a runabout. if its short trips its usually shopping, so parking and damage is an issue. small car better.

          In your situation there is no single advantage a Tesla has over a Kia thats ten times cheaper.

  • holdenmg on 03/07/2020 - 13:15

    Obviously if you go with the Tesla you will need to go to the https://www.ozbargain.com.au/shop
    for the "My other Car is OzBargain.com.au" bumper sticker. (Stay classy!) lol

    • Gman2099 on 03/07/2020 - 15:34
      +1

      When I click on you link all I get is an example of an Ozbargin sticker with no mention of My other car is. Also, it listed at $404 which I do not consider a bargain. I can't even add it to my cart … :P

      • Euphemistic on 03/07/2020 - 17:26
        +3

        I was looking for the ‘My other car runs has enerloops under the bonut thingy’ sticker

        • Jackson on 04/07/2020 - 23:58
          +3

          Bonut… Never gets old

  • karatepsychic on 03/07/2020 - 19:58
    +2

    I'm currently saving up for the VW.id.3. God knows when it will come to Australia though.

    Reason being that I can't afford a Tesla and the ioniq isn't a car built for the EV platform, so I'm holding off.

    It has been said that EVs are just batteries on wheels and that the game changer is in the software. If you believe that then the ioniq seems underwhelming.

    • Dropbear67 on 06/07/2020 - 09:17
      +1

      the ID3 does sound like a decent choice. designed from the ground up as an EV. Any idea on whether or not theyre going to make it to Aus?

      • karatepsychic on 06/07/2020 - 16:41

        They said they'll make it to Aus alright, think I read mid/late 2021 but considering there are delays hitting market in Europe I wouldn't hold my breadth.

        Early 2022 will give my savings a chance to catch up to the ticket price at least.

  • Tasmaniac on 03/07/2020 - 20:17
    +4

    You're missing the fact that every Auto maker in the world would need to sell electric at a loss just to stay in the race. Most major car companies are going fold or merge in the next decade or two, they've already missed the bus I think. If you think Hyundai are to big to fail then you're way off. The reason people love Tesla so much is because they're building a green future and a great product at the same time. Most people who test drive a Tesla 'get it' straight away, maybe you should take a test drive if you haven't already.

    • cannedhams on 04/07/2020 - 00:12
      +1

      Hyundai only joined the race in 2016, and their production figures are pretty respectable, a bit less than half of Tesla:-

      https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/05/Global-plug-in-vehic…

      • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2020 - 00:18
        +4

        You're confusing plug-ins with EVs. Plug-ins include hybrids.

        • cannedhams on 04/07/2020 - 15:45
          -1

          It includes plug-in hybrids which are for all intents and purposes EVs. You putter around on batteries for your daily drive and use the juice when you take a weekend away.

          • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2020 - 17:30
            +2

            @cannedhams: A plug in hybrid is definitely not an EV. It’s a completely different philosophy.

            • cannedhams on 05/07/2020 - 17:47

              @[Deactivated]: Respectfully, do you know what the last two letters in "PHEV" stand for?

              • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2020 - 17:49

                @cannedhams: Yep, and the philosophy is completely different. The only reason anyone groups them together is because some manufacturers don’t make or sell any significant numbers of EVs

        • Dropbear67 on 06/07/2020 - 09:18

          PHEV are the sweet spot at the moment IMO.. most, if not all of the benefits of a pure EV without the range anxiety.

    • Zephyrus on 05/07/2020 - 12:18

      The Hyundai chaebol is pretty massive. I don't think they're going away any time soon.

      • hayne on 06/07/2020 - 12:39

        Wasn't the Daewoo chaebol pretty massive as well before they collapsed with debts of $50b+?

        • Zephyrus on 06/07/2020 - 19:48

          Yeah, but that was triggered by the AFC and large scale fraud. I don't think a decline in just Hyundai's car sales would trigger collapse.

  • kaikor on 03/07/2020 - 20:34

    Why Nissan Leaf not on your list? Are they no good?

    • cannedhams on 03/07/2020 - 23:57
      +4

      They're not that well regarded, no. Theres a good writeup here:- https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/tesla-model-3-v-nis…

    • flametornado on 04/07/2020 - 21:03
      +6

      Nissan refuses to put active battery cooling of any kind on their leafs, where most good evs have liquid cooled and heated batteries. This ends up meaning that battery degregation is massive for leafs compared to Teslas and Hyundais.

      • Jackson on 05/07/2020 - 00:03
        +1

        This really is the only issue with leaf, however in the future we may have third party batteries that solve this (here's hoping)

        A leaf battery can still last long enough to make a compelling argument, especially since there is a supply of jap imports that are near new and can be had from 20-30k. Also batteries will hopefully only get cheaper, by the time you need a replacment there should be something cheaper and better out there.

        • cannedhams on 05/07/2020 - 19:40

          Thanks for the info, very helpful

    • Springfield on 06/07/2020 - 21:08
      +1

      Or the Renault Zoe.
      I have driven the below electric vehicles for an hour or so.
      Mitsubishi PHEV - does not take long before the petrol engine kicks in. This sort of vehicle does not have much appeal to me. Oh no it has an exhaust pipe.
      Renault Zoe - good little car
      Nissan Leaf - nice and zippy
      Hyundai Kona and Ioniq - really liked driving both
      Tesla Model S rear wheel drive - was great but felt very large as I am used to being in small cars. The Tesla Model 3 would be much better, yet to test drive one.
      My dream is for a Tesla but would like a CyberTruck (hopefully they offer a smaller one in my lifetime) or a CyberCar (no talk of this).
      Currently driving a 10-year-old Toyota, any spare money will buy appreciating assets like real estate.
      My recommendation is to take your better half and go for a test drive in the Hyundai and Tesla, if you can afford the Tesla get that if she approves.

  • decryption on 04/07/2020 - 08:24
    +10

    I've owned both the Ioniq (Dec 2018 to March 2020) and the Tesla (March 2020 to now). Spend the extra cash on the Tesla if you can afford it. It's so much nicer to drive! The Ioniq is a slug compared to the Model 3 and handles like a mop on a greasy floor. Plus the Model 3 is way cooler, nobody gives a shit about the Ioniq whereas people will stop and talk to you about the Model 3 (which could be good or bad really). You also get the benefit of there being heaps of Tesla Superchargers around and the vastly superior range on the Model 3.

    Feel free to hit me up if you have any more questions about EVs :)

    • cannedhams on 04/07/2020 - 15:48

      I dont see myself using superchargers, and if you're paying 42c per kilowatt hour, its not really that attractive price wise either (must be some enchanted electricity with pixie dust mixed in if they think they can justify charging twice as much as the going rate).

      Appreciate the opinion though.

      • decryption on 05/07/2020 - 07:58
        +1

        Nissan gave me a LEAF to try for a week as well, I wrote about it here: https://www.drivezero.com.au/cars/an-ioniq-owner-drives-the-…

        I also wrote a comparison between the Ioniq and Model 3, prior to buying a Model 3 myself (friend let me borrow his Tesla for a day): https://reckoner.com.au/reviews/ioniq-owner-drives-a-tesla-m…

        You might also want to look into importing a LEAF from Japan - good prices at the moment due to coronavirus. Lack of activity at the auctions so stock is going cheap. Can get one landed in AU for ~$35k versus $60k for a new local one. Lots of imported ones on Carsales too, but you can save a little bit extra if you import it yourself if you're keen for a bargain.

        The LEAF is great if you want to use the car's battery to power your house (V2H). Only CHAdeMO enabled cars can do that at the moment (CCS bi-directional charging might come one day, but cars on sale now with CCS probably won't be able to do it) and Jetcharge is planning to sell a bi-directional charger in Australia in 2020: https://jetcharge.com.au/services/vehicle-to-grid

        If I didn't already have a Tesla, I'd be pretty damn tempted to get the LEAF over the Ioniq for V2H alone. Considering a domestic battery costs ~$10,000, that's a big saving.

        • cannedhams on 05/07/2020 - 08:43

          Yeah suddenly Im actually quite intrigued. Thanks very much for the info, very useful.

        • cannedhams on 05/07/2020 - 08:51

          Hey, I'd be interested in knowing whether your opinion has changed re autopilot from what you wrote in the above piece:-

          Autopilot. You gotta pay $8000 for the really cool stuff like Autosteer+ (steer you around bendy roads), Navigate on Autopilot (change lanes for you) and Smart Summon (the car drives to you slowly in a car park/garage). Without that package, all you get is adaptive cruise control and Autosteer (basic). Autosteer kept me scarily close to the cars in adjacent lanes, so I disabled it for the day I had it. The cruise control is great though and much faster and smoother to react than the Ioniq, however it was more likely to disengage than the Ioniq when going uphill or in direct sunlight. Overall disappointing.

          • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2020 - 19:08
            +1

            @cannedhams: There is no such thing as autopilot +. Basic autopilot drives identically to the autopilot when you opt for full self driving, with the exception of stopping at traffic lights and stop signs. There is no difference in the way it steers. And smart summon is a (cool) gimmick, you’re too nervous to use it regularly in case the car hits another one.

          • vindictus on 06/07/2020 - 05:48
            +1

            @cannedhams: tbh I don't know how the autopilot doesn't clinch it alone. It's a few grand more sure, but a car that's going to be self driveable in a year or two? No one else on the market offers that at the moment. Everyone's going on about cost and driving dynamics and all sorts of other crap but the self driving is by far the most attractive option. Does everyone just love traffic here or something?

            • decryption on 06/07/2020 - 07:14
              +1

              @vindictus: Have you used Autopilot? Based on my few months with it, there's no way a Tesla is driving itself beyond a highway scenario any time soon.

              • vindictus on 07/07/2020 - 05:03

                @decryption: Yes, it was actually quite impressive when I used it, I had someone merge on me when driving and it detected it and rectified. I've tried a few other brands' highway systems, and they all pale in comparison to the (currently flawed) Tesla version which easily beats them out considering it receives constant updates and eventual promise of full autonomous driving.

                • decryption on 07/07/2020 - 08:34
                  +1

                  @vindictus: Oh yeah, Tesla's is the best on the market - but I still have to grip the wheel every 30 seconds and still have to turn it off when a big truck gets close to me and the passenger freaks out I'm so close to it. On sunny mornings it'll disengage because the sun blinds the cameras. On poorly marked roads it'll go off the edge of the road into an emergency/bike lane.

                  The only scenario I can comfortably use Autopilot is sitting in the right hand lane on the highway overtaking other cars. If I use it in the left there's always some slow bastard I need to overtake but the car can't do that unless I drop $8,000 - not worth it considering how rough Autopilot is otherwise.

                  In busy highway traffic I love using adaptive cruise control - but many cars do this now.

          • decryption on 06/07/2020 - 07:13
            +3

            @cannedhams: I still find Autopilot underwhelming. I have to engage/disengage it so often, I may as well just drive the damn car myself. It's really only useful on totally empty roads. For example:

            Dual carriage highway (i.e: M-roads, M1, M8, M80 etc. in VIC) there's always slow pricks around you, so even though I have cruise control on at 100km/h, I'm overtaking cars and Autopilot won't overtake for me, so I have to turn it off, overtake, then turn it back on again. Maybe if I paid the $8,000 to get navigate on autopilot this would change, but that's a lot of cash for marginal benefit imho. On non-highways (normal arterial roads for example), Autopilot won't stop at traffic lights, so I have to turn it off then on again so I don't run a red light.

            Autopilot also likes to put you dead centre in the middle of the lane, which is often way too close to other cars that veer over in their lane. Autopilot won't move you over in your lane unless the other car actually verges into your lane. I find it uncomfortable driving so close to trucks and big SUVs/utes.

            Adaptive cruise control is very good though, best I've used - but that's hardly a new feature, many cars do this well now.

            As you can see by the comments left on my article - the Tesla cult fanboys think Autopilot is the best thing since sliced bread, but it's been borderline useless for me. I certainly wouldn't drop any cash for it in its current state. Based on how dumb my Model 3 is on autopilot, there's no way "full self driving" is happening any time soon, it's a ponzi scheme hyped up by Elon Musk.

            • Drakesy on 06/07/2020 - 12:38

              @decryption: Isn't Australia's version of Autopilot a crippled one that America and the UK get?
              In which case the hardware's there just our legislation doesn't allow it.
              Watching the youtube videos of people putting autopilot on and travelling 20+ miles along many types of roads without interfering makes me think it's actually pretty advanced.

              • decryption on 07/07/2020 - 08:28

                @Drakesy: I've seen those videos too and that's absolutely not how my car, or the other Model 3's I've driven work whilst on Autopilot. Australia gets pretty much the same basic Autopilot as the rest of the world as far as I know.

            • cannedhams on 06/07/2020 - 19:10

              @decryption: Thanks for the info, really. I'd always suspected that autopilot was overhyped and undercooked but its difficult to get an opinion from a Tesla driver that isn't an Elontologist.

              One of my mates whos a pilot said that autopilot is a mature technology on planes, been around for ages, but they still can't trust it to do very much except keep the plane on a straight line when the air is pretty much empty. Same thing applies, I imagine.

        • toliman on 05/07/2020 - 19:03
          +2

          Be aware, the concept of V2G is good, but it has a very large premium, and you'd also have export limits of around 7kwh as it's limited to CHAdeMO plugs and the Nissan Leaf (AFAIK). Grid exports might Not be up to Powerwall 2 levels, as the car and EVSE has to manage the exports to the home or grid.

          V2G or V2H requires more than CCS or Type 2 Mennekes/Tesla which is more common. There is a CCS v2 with V2G. But it hasn't been added to cars or chargers yet?

          I'd say that it would be ~$7,000 to $10k for the wall-charger, given that there's a Wallbox Quasar V2G model available in the US / Europe if you feel like importing a €4950 wall charger today, or waiting for cheaper models.

          https://rechargier.com/products/the-quasar-is-the-world-s-fi…

          Which puts the $8k to $11k 13.5kw Powerwall 2 in perspective.

          • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2020 - 19:09

            @toliman: You’re forgetting charge cycles. The Nissan Leaf is bad enough in terms of degradation, put a charge cycle on it plugged into your house every night, and your 10 years of battery life probably drops to 4 or 5.

          • decryption on 06/07/2020 - 07:19

            @toliman: Good points about the cost for a V2G unit, I wasn't aware the damn thing was almost 5,000 euros! I don't see it being installed in an Australian home for under $10,000 (Jetcharge is currently trialing it) - which is basically the same cost as a Powerwall installed after rebates in VIC at least. That said, the battery in a LEAF is way bigger than a Powerwall (40kwh vs 13.5kwh) and the Powerwall can only export 5kw vs the 7kw over CHAdeMO.

  • nebula98 on 04/07/2020 - 12:12
    +10

    One thing to keep in the back of your mind is Tesla cars have a very good battery management system, they have proven history of making batteries that last.
    Hyundai do not have a long enough time in the ev game to say that their batteries will last as long as Tesla batteries.
    I plan on keeping my Tesla 3sr+ which is the cheapest of the range for many years as I an retired and do not have a daily commute.
    Hyundai ev might have good batteries they might not ,only time will tell…….
    I was not prepared to take a risk so I brought a known time tested ev .

    I have taken everyone who shows an interest in ev cars for a ride and all have said if they could afford one that they would buy one.

    I belive that the next new Tesla model will be much cheaper town car at around $30,000
    The one feature that I love with my Tesla is that while the car is parked the air con keeps working ….how good is that ,never get into a hot or cold car ever again.
    I had throat cancer last year and this feature is a life saver for me.

    Not all tesla owners are up themselfs

    • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2020 - 17:47

      No, the next model Tesla is a pickup truck, then a supercar, and probably a new S and X before any of those. They hinted at a Chinese made Chinese market car coming at some point, but it’s definitely not the next Tesla.

      • ATangk on 05/07/2020 - 17:59

        Shanghai's Tesla Gigafactory is to circumvent import tax. But its heavily subsidised by the Chinese government from what I've heard. Pretty sure theyll just be making the same models as everyone else though, possibly stretched slightly because of their obsession with longer wheelbase models (L models on BMW's and MB's).

  • Thinkscape on 04/07/2020 - 14:19
    +15

    Had the same question 6mo ago. Did a test drive of Model X, Model 3 SR+ and the highest-trim Ioniq and Kona. For the sake of comparison here, you're probably looking at the ~$50k ioniq, or ~$75k SR+ (drive-away)

    From the top of my head, random order, here's what's better in Model 3:

    • Software updates - just like your phone, every month or so I get a free update; fixes bugs, adds features, improves range and performance, adds more apps and games, makes "smart" features better and more reliable.
    • iOS/Android app control of the car, in current version: AC, seat-heaters, summon, charging, audio, sentry mode, venting windows, valet and sentry mode switches, real-time location and speed, scheduling service.
    • Much better video entertainment - nothing on the car market beats watching Netflix on 15" screen with surround sound. There's also Youtube, Twitch built-in, and all the other streaming platform accessible via browser (Disney+, Hulu etc.)
    • Supercharging network - Tesla exclusive, esp. useful when doing road trips (i.e. Adel->MLB->Sydney->Brisb). Deployed in strategic location along the coast line and between major cities, charges up to 120kW (in Australia), so you can top-up your battery in time, that I usually take to go to bathroom and buy coffee.
    • Better audio - awesome audio tuning, great speakers, esp. in the upgraded version; all get native tunein and spotify integration with podcasts support.
    • Games, esp. if you have kids - arcade, simulation etc. can use steering wheel, touch screen or connect a game pad (i.e. the xbox ones)
    • Better battery management system, best in the industry, means lower degradation 5, 10, 15 years from now, higher resell value
    • Cabin overheating protection and keep-climate options. Esp. in hot days, leave the car and tap on the screen to keep temperature; or go on a hike, and on your way back turn on the climate from the phone app.
    • Bigger inside (storage and passenger space; my family is quite tall)
    • More comfortable seats
    • Sentry mode - records from 4 cameras around the car when someone is messing around it. Good for chasing people after hit-and run, or just dinging your door at parking (for insurance).
    • Built-in dashcam - constantly records your drives from 4 cameras and stores them on a usb stick. No need to purchase and install separate dashcam.
    • The self-driving features; did a road trip recently, version 2020.20.*, the car drove itself 90% of the time without interventions. It's quite an amazing and serene feeling, greatly reduces fatigue and stress, while still me being in control.
    • Better air filtration - has roughly 2x the size of cabin air filters of ioniq or other hatches.
    • Safer in a crash.
    • Safer before a crash, because of active protection systems (heaps of videos online of teslas preventing crashes)
    • All glass tinted panoramic roof.
    • Much faster (if you care about those things)
    • (subjective) better looking
    • (subjective) better cabin and interface - for me it is like going from a laptop to an ipad. No buttons, just a big touch screen with everything I need well laid out and responsive. Got used to that very quickly and I now when I get a loner car with all the "traditional buttons and knobs", I feel a bit meh.
    • API - the car is constantly connected to network, so you can pull the telemetry from the car and do whatever you want. There's bunch of paid apps that can do nice graphs for you from your drives, analyse efficiency etc. You can also scrub the data yourself and store it in database, do whatever you want. There's also bunch of commands you can execute on the car (similar to using the mobile app) so you can set up some nifty automation with it.
    • (subjective) Not having to deal with car dealerships … oof

    What I found better in ioniq:

    • Price, obviously. That's a lot of money that can be spent or invested elsewhere…
    • The hatch; more practical when putting in kids bikes and toys
    • Ventilated seats (I get sweaty on road trips)
    • Can negotiate the price a bit.
    • Stock - at least when I was considering buying, they had cars in stock I could get the same day.

    Did some negotiating with me wife and we did the "Tesla stretch"; no regrets.

    • Thinkscape on 04/07/2020 - 14:24
      +4

      Oh btw - the whole Elon Musk / cult thing - it's up to you.
      Do you follow BMW CEO on Twitter? Or Hyundai chairman?
      Do you care?

      Some people follow, join forums, fan clubs, pages on Facebook, go to meetups, etc.

      Some people just buy the car, and drive it.

      • vindictus on 06/07/2020 - 05:50
        +1

        Yeah who cares about bloody Musk. I'm hunting for a Tesla now, hate Musk but EVs are the future and Tesla are the market leader right now. There's other options like Rivian but they're not here yet. Hyundai are great but not pushing the tech like Tesla.

        Just buy the car and drive it. People that disparage are haters.

    • cannedhams on 04/07/2020 - 16:09
      +1

      Thanks very much for the thought out response, really appreciated.

      Im not really fussed on the entertainment, and as far as autopilot goes, Im mostly puttering around suburban streets where Id tend not to utilise it, but the safety element definitely appeals to me.

      Would definitely be good to not have to install a dashcam as well, although not a gamechanger.

    • 900dollaridoos on 09/07/2020 - 07:35

      Can I ask what the advantage of a netflix etc. is? My understanding is the screen is front and centre so it would be distracting for the driver if passengers used it. Or is it legal due to auto drive?
      Or is it just a good think for when you're camping out in the car?

  • Syd Bargain Girl on 04/07/2020 - 14:43
    +1

    I would get an Ioniq as my next car, currently have a 1st Gen leaf which gives 110kms on a full charge which at the moment is enough for me

    • cannedhams on 05/07/2020 - 08:53

      Yes, decryption above has got me really interested in a Leaf now. Being able to use it as a battery stack is pretty damn awesome. And second hand Leafs seem to go for a song and a dance.

  • Speckled Jim on 04/07/2020 - 18:40
    -6

    But am I missing something?

    As others have said or alluded to, just the following:

    1. Unwanted attention from Police, vandals or curious.
    2. Unwanted build quality issues.
    3. People trying to race you.
    4. Automatic entry to the Cult of Elon.

    The last two are unwanted for me, YMMV.

  • Roney on 04/07/2020 - 18:50
    +1

    Find out first the insurance premium for a Tesla. I hear replacement parts can be an issue. Also google car reliability rating for Tesla.

    • cannedhams on 05/07/2020 - 08:53

      Actually Im starting to think about a Leaf now.

      • Bid Sniper on 05/07/2020 - 12:38
        +2

        Batteries are not water cooled

  • nephilim on 04/07/2020 - 19:27
    -1

    Why not just get the plugin instead of fully electric Ioniq? Its 37-40k, only slightly more then a hybrid camry with 1-2 extras.
    Its better for your range of driving, talking 5 litres of petrol and 8Kw used for a 200KM trip.

  • piston3461 on 04/07/2020 - 20:24
    +3

    anyone with an ioniq would swap for a tesla if they could afford it. literally better in every way

    • Speckled Jim on 04/07/2020 - 22:47
      -3

      Ride quality - Hyundai.
      Build quality - Hyundai.
      Familiar interior - Hyundai.

      If these things don't matter to most people, I'm sure they'd straight-swap for something of a higher dollar value.
      I'd question how smart the Tesla owner was if they wanted to swap on those terms.

      • smartazz104 on 05/07/2020 - 16:55
        -1

        Hyundais' reputation seems to have improved after the hired that ex-Audi designer. Did they actually improve their build quality or just cloth the same old stuff in a prettier body…

        • Speckled Jim on 05/07/2020 - 17:34

          If you're asking "are they re-bodying Excels?" the answer is "No".
          They've been on an upswing since 2000 with the Accent.

      • flametornado on 07/07/2020 - 08:07

        I'd say ride quality is better in the Tesla and power delivery and regen breaking are smoother in the Tesla too.

        • Speckled Jim on 07/07/2020 - 08:42

          Not experienced either myself. Just read a smattering of UK/US/AU reviews and comparos.
          Seems consensus among motoring journos amounts to an elaborate conspiracy against Tesla.

  • flametornado on 04/07/2020 - 21:06
    +1

    @cannedham I bought a kona electric in feb.ive got just under 8k km on it now. It's great, I have no regrets. I also test drove the model 3 and preferred the kona overall.

    Feel free to ask me any questions you have.

    • kirynflare on 05/07/2020 - 00:02

      Hi @flametornado, do you mind sharing the price range you got the Kona for?

      I'm interested in the car, but the RRP is very similar to what a Tesla 3 would cost..

      • flametornado on 05/07/2020 - 13:48

        I got the kona electric elite (bottom spec of the two, mostly because the other features were either things I didn't want like a sunroof or things I didn't care about like heated and cooled seats and steering wheel) for 63.5k which is a hell of a lot cheaper then the bae model 3 for nearly 80k.

    • cannedhams on 05/07/2020 - 17:51

      Thanks for the post - what was it that made you choose the Kona over the Tesla? I hear that the ride and build quality are better but was it something else? I must admit that I havent considered it as yet.

      • flametornado on 05/07/2020 - 19:27
        +4

        I orignally rented a model 3 for a weekend using https://www.evee.com.au/, so I tried it out on my more frequent drives.

        The Kona isn't perfect, but neither was the model 3, it was very much the best compromise for us.

        I'll type up my take on the model 3 today sometime. The biggest things that made it a no for us were:
        * Size - it's a really big car, much wider and longer than the Kona
        * Boot - the model 3 has a very weird boot and it struggled getting a pram in (and our pram is pretty compact).
        * turning circle - it turns like a boat, much bigger than our previous golf, and mich bigger than the kona.
        * servicing / repairs - Tesla is notoriously bad about letting 3rd parties repair or deal with its cars. It also only has 1 or 2 service centres, right in the heart of Sydney, which is very inconvenient for me.
        * quirks - tesla makes some really odd design decisions. For example the windows fit under trim pieces, so they need to retract before you can open the door. Any issues and you break / bend trim, which is quite costly to replace because it's a single piece.

        Things I will miss from the model 3
        * Efficiency of the tesla drive train.
        * OTA updates.
        * promise of self driving one time

        I also don't drive long distances very often and can charge at home, so the tesla supercharger network didn't interest me. The kona has more than enough performance for me, I want a daily driver, not a performance car. The kona has more range than the base model 3.

        For me price wasn't an issue, but I did enjoy saving 9k (at the time, more like 13k now), and I still preferred the kona, and would get another one over a model 3.

        • cannedhams on 06/07/2020 - 19:12

          Excellent response. Really appreciate it.

        • Springfield on 09/07/2020 - 10:39
          +1

          You did not to mention depreciation, the Kona will lose its value much faster than a Tesla.
          Yes, you have saved on the purchase price but depending how long you own it could easily be much worse off when selling.

          • flametornado on 09/07/2020 - 21:03

            @Springfield: I don't really care about deprecation because:

            a) I plan to keep it for a long time
            b) Teslas do depreciate quite considerably. If you don't believe me, look at what happened to used model s prices when the model 3 came out.
            c) electric car tech is still in its infancy, the cost of buying a new electric car is super high now but dropping considerably year on year.
            d) electric cars will switch to an 800v architecture away from the 400v they currently use to increase fast charge speeds (see the porche taycan for an example)

            On top of that, the way Teslas build their cars with continuous improvements rather than batching their improvements in one big model year refresh means that as time goes on newer Teslas will be substantially better than 3 or 4 year old Teslas and most people will just opt for those.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2020 - 21:19

    Youre too poor and old for a tesla

    • cannedhams on 05/07/2020 - 08:58
      +7

      Too fat and uncool as well. Sometimes I even wear three-quarter pants. They probably wouldnt even let me step foot in the dealership.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/07/2020 - 09:21

        Many finance option available for too old and too poor

      • siuol on 06/07/2020 - 10:42
        +1

        The good news is you do not even need to walk into the dealership to order a Tesla… all you need is an internet connection.

        If you want an extra free 1500km of supercharging let me know. You could use my referral code then both you and I will have 1500km of free supercharging.

  • Euphemistic on 04/07/2020 - 21:50

    Do any of them have the option to be a battery for your house system when it using the car? Could be a decent energy cost saver if you could charge the car at off peak rates and then use it to power your home during the day when you are at home.

    • cannedhams on 05/07/2020 - 08:56

      Decrytion above has just alluded to the fact that you can use a Nissan Leaf as a domestic battery. That honestly sounds pretty awesome, Ive looked into house batteries and they are pretty dear, if you can use your car then honestly thats pretty exciting, only issue would be you dont want to run your fridge off your car and then have no charge to get you where you want to go in the morning.

      • Euphemistic on 05/07/2020 - 11:24

        I’m sure there’s be some smarts that allow you to program when the car lowers the house or how much charge it uses.

        Given the size of car batteries and how much a house uses in a day I reckon you’d be pretty safe. Our house uses 25-28kwh per day. If the car battery is safely bigger than that then no problems if you use it smart.

      • flametornado on 05/07/2020 - 13:51

        V2G has some serious drawbacks. It will reduce your battery lifetime and increase degradation. We're not at the point where the batteries can last long enough for it not to matter.

  • CalmLemons on 04/07/2020 - 22:49
    +2

    Check out insurance for the tesla.

    You'll probably buy the hyundai.

  • RiseAndRuin on 04/07/2020 - 22:54

    It might not suit you, but if I didn't use the car too much, I'd start looking at car sharing, just to avoid all the issues of owning a car.

  • sheepzpal on 04/07/2020 - 23:53
    +1

    Just buy tesla shares :)

  • khomeini on 05/07/2020 - 00:29
    -2

    I love your analogy of Tesla owners = Apple owners.

    Sheep will be sheep no matter what but if you refer to them as such, wait for the inevitable "yeah but…" rebuttal. (Just wait for the Apple users here to bite).

    I was considering a Tesla, but right now life is too short so just go with what you enjoy :)
    If I were in your position, I wouldn't care what people thought and go with the Ioniq.

  • jaimex2 on 05/07/2020 - 10:18
    +3

    The Tesla is the one to buy just for its resale value.

  • morebunnings on 05/07/2020 - 11:05

    Have you considered the self driving capability between the two.

    Teslas come with full self driving hardware, which will be enabled via software update when the time comes (software is safe enough & gov allows it to be enabled).

    Could be 2 years away, could be 10 years away. Either way, this would make me lean towards the Tesla. It will also dramatically improve the resale value when self driving eventually is enabled.

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