Do You Need Heater at Mid Day?

fujay on 25/06/2020 - 12:48
Last edited 25/06/2020 - 16:51

I would like to seek second opinion before action.

Currently in Sydney is 17degree, and we are in a unit (not ground floor, quite sunny in morning).

My lodger has a heater on right now, mid day at noon. It feels like she is abusing it since we agreed on rent including bills.
I did not provide or agree on using heater in the room if it matters.

What is your take of this?

I had fun reading some comments and taking some advice, hope you too.

Added a few points frequently discussed:
Out of contract terms, didn't increase rent in 1+ year, as considering on good terms
Heater cost $13+ a day when running 24/7 (Provider AGL) (2kw heater)
Lodger current behavior is like 24/7, as heater was notice on at 12pm, 4pm early winter (heard noise from corridor)

Poll Options expired

  • 374
    It's reasonable usage
  • 6
    Lodger cannot use heater
  • 197
    Lodger should pay extra for heating
Home & Garden

Comments

  • MessyG on 25/06/2020 - 20:38
    +1

    Put in a split system with heating, they use heat pump technology and are much cheaper to run.

  • sarahlump on 25/06/2020 - 21:02
    +1

    You can't just start charging somebody more rent. There are laws that you're required to abide by. Determining that your housemate is a lodger is also potentially tricky. You clearly have an agreement. you should call the RTA.

    Also, you should make sure to provide copy's of the electricity going back 12 months to show that the rent that you're charging is actually going to the bills and you aren't pocketing any of it!

    • fujay on 25/06/2020 - 21:18
      -2

      I am not following.
      If you mean rent is not decided by landlord, then who else?

      lodger defined here is clear to me, as there is no exclusive access to room

      • sarahlump on 25/06/2020 - 21:20
        +1

        you go into their room you're a (profanity) creeper.

        the rent is determined by a binding agreement between the tenant, the agent, and the government. if all 3 don't agree it doesn't happen. And even then you are required to give notice.

        • fujay on 25/06/2020 - 21:23

          you might have mistaken.
          No agent involved, rented out a room in own apartment.
          Of course, notice will be given.

          • sarahlump on 25/06/2020 - 21:33
            -1

            @fujay: You're the agent. If the person is responsible for the utilities they're absolutely not a lodger.

            • sarahlump on 25/06/2020 - 21:34
              -1

              @sarahlump: If they are a lodger, you're essentially a hotel which means free electricity and water and everything else in the bill.

    • bdl on 26/06/2020 - 21:21

      cash only, no receipt :)

  • BartholemewH on 25/06/2020 - 21:44

    Not sure why the tenant needs a heater with all those crypto rigs going flat out.

  • lachhelix on 25/06/2020 - 22:31
    +4

    Do I need a heater at midday? No
    Would I like a heater at midday if it was cold? Yes
    Would I have it switched on if I didn't have to pay anymore to have it switched on? Absolutely!

    I reckon just re-negotiate with them upon next lease renewal and split out electricity if you have an issue with their usage

  • TerryJustTerry on 26/06/2020 - 00:11

    Maybe she had a cold ?

  • bobwokeup on 26/06/2020 - 00:54

    I get annoyed at my wife for having the heater on in the middle of the day or late at night as it costs a small fortune. So if it was a lodger they should definitely pay there way. Not a good idea to agree to bills included in the first place unless you knew them already.

  • ass3ts on 26/06/2020 - 01:31

    I do a lot of winter sports, in Australia I'd often still use AC in winter and set it to the lowest temperature.

  • [Deactivated] on 26/06/2020 - 06:40
    +13

    OP you sound like a pain in the hind quarters. The tenant is not wrong. You should have taken the worst case scenario into account before putting a clause like no electricity charges beforehand.

  • DarkOz on 26/06/2020 - 08:18

    We live on the first floor of a 3 floor apartment. We only get a few hours of sunshine in the morning until about 10am. It's amazing here during Summer we have no need for air conditioning at all. At most we turn on the fans during the hot nights. It might get cold during Winter but we just put a jumper/jacket on and watch TV with a blanket on the sofa.

    This could easily save $1,000 - $2,000 each year on our energy bills.

  • heysoph9 on 26/06/2020 - 08:57

    This is why utilities should always be paid by usage.
    My weekly electricity summary email came through recently and it was 260% increase over the previous week. I clicked on the hourly usage graphs and realised my new housemate is leaving a heater on ALL NIGHT as the power usage between 12-6am is unusually high.
    Although I charge her bills as they come, I was not happy paying for half her unnecessary usage, so told her to put another blanket/jacket on because it was not economical.

    Back to your question though, rooms without any direct sunlight can be freeeezing in winter, so it can make sense.

  • OzHunterNSW on 26/06/2020 - 09:44

    Why are you asking…. how old are you…. the weather is beautiful. allow your house to breath.
    Put on some socks and an extra jumper.

    It is unusual behaviour unless you are subjected to a southerly blast and there is snow to the west of you

  • schwinn on 26/06/2020 - 09:50
    +6

    Don't forget that heaters have a THERMOSTAT so it's not a solid full 24 hours of being turned on - it just heats up until the required temperature and stops until the temperature drops below. It's not a full 2KW/hour for 24 hours, so all your calculations for $13-$15 dollars a day are inaccurate.

  • Lastchancetosee on 26/06/2020 - 10:00
    +2

    I've yet to work in an office where the temperature is set at 17 degrees in winter. Usually it's around 21, so seems reasonable to heat up the room, especially if you are working, so not moving much.

  • HeWhoKnows on 26/06/2020 - 10:06
    +2

    Each to thier own as they say
    Hence OP should mind his own business

    Thats all there is to it

  • chasingstoke on 26/06/2020 - 10:35
    +10

    You sound like the landlord from hell. Get a grip

    • Hangryuman on 26/06/2020 - 11:51
      +4

      'Get a grip' ?

      I was thinking he should take his hand off it.

  • serpserpserp on 26/06/2020 - 10:40
    +6

    Heater cost $13+ a day when running 24/7 (Provider AGL) (2kw heater)

    Garbage. that would mean you would be paying $390 per month just for the heater alone. I pay electricity every month through AGL for a family of 4. I've been running one 3kw reverse cycle 24/7 since we've been working from home for months. We also have two other 3kw reverse cycles that are on for 14 hours and 8-10 hours per day respectively. Couple this with our, fridge, dishwasher used every day, and washing machine and dryer having at least 1 load per day not to mention the day long electricity powering laptops devices etc. My bill was $290 last month. My bill before I was working from home and not in winter was around $150 (Feb). So realistically all this heating probably costs me an extra $100 a month if I wanted to pad the numbers.

    As your usage grows, your charge per kW gets lower. So if this person uses a 2kw heat 24/7 your cost is not $390 per month.

    • Revrnd on 27/06/2020 - 21:30

      That's close to $1000 / quarter, $4000 per year just for electricity… If I were paying that for my family, I'd be looking to get solar and battery ASAP to lessen the reliance on the grid (if it was my own home and not a rental).

      family of 3 here and we're hitting $550 per quarter and only use the heater sparingly in a Canberra winter (yet run washing machine, dryer, TV, multiple desktop computers / Xbox etc quite often). 25% discount on electricity through our provider, and 18c/kwh with that discount.

      no sarking (crap ceiling insulation) no double-glazed windows, and we just try to be smarter about the usage so we can put all that extra $ saved toward other things.

      • serpserpserp on 28/06/2020 - 09:11
        +2

        That's close to $1000 / quarter

        $290 is probably the highest we'll pay for the year. Last month was $240, month before was $220. July will be another peak month then from there I'll progressively go down. Over late spring and summer as mentioned it is more around the $140 mark (and we blast air con in hot days). To be honest I'm not mad at our bills, I know we are super liberal with our use of power. Previous years I've been so draconian with power use, but with covid-19 I just want everyone to be as comfortable as the can be while we are stuck at home.

        no sarking (crap ceiling insulation) no double-glazed windows,

        Our house is Swiss cheese on insulation, poor roof insulation, windows are about 1mm thick, house is sinking in one corner so the seals are off, and no floor insulation and no carpet. Would love solar but probably insulation fix up first (plus I need to get the roof tiles fixed, they are pretty old) before I have an installer up there crunching up the roof.

        • Revrnd on 28/06/2020 - 14:40

          I know I'd be read the riot act by my missus if we hit close to $1000 for a quarter (as we have done in the past whilst I was using several computers 24/7 for the quarter - she sees my computers as sole source of bill shock - showed her the calculations even.. unwinnable battle).

          Know what you mean with the swiss cheese, dust storms and bushfire smoke really highlighted that in our place at 250+ ppm inside downstairs.

          we've tiles throughout ground floor, and tiles in hallways upstairs. even in summer it gets stupidly hot upstairs, and stupidly cold up + down stairs in winter.

          Can't wait to get our own place… solar, battery, glazing, insulation are all high on the list for improvements when we do.

          • serpserpserp on 29/06/2020 - 20:19

            @Revrnd:

            Can't wait to get our own place… solar, battery, glazing, insulation are all high on the list for improvements when we do.

            I thought i'd do that immediately once I bought, but the finances from a large mortgage has stopped this! Hopefully soon.

    • Baghern on 28/06/2020 - 13:23

      reverse cycle is multiple times more economical than those fan heaters.

      hence why there are recommendations here to invest long term and get a proper a reverse cycle

      • serpserpserp on 28/06/2020 - 13:27

        They are if they reach temps set on the unit and then stop. Otherwise they will churn through the power all day.

  • Seaeagles on 26/06/2020 - 11:12

    Is their room in an area with little or no sunlight?
    What type of house is it, if its a un-insulated fibro house or a brick house with insulation.

    How are they dressed, if they are in shorts and t-shirt than put something else on but if they are in jeans and a jumper and still cold maybe the heater is ok to use.

    • fujay on 18/08/2020 - 08:17

      Room has sunlight till mid day, north east facing window
      Building with brick with insulation

      Lodger wears shorts in mid winter and take iced beverage from fridge
      (I had no intention mentioning this as overheard heater noise is considered creeper here…)

      Let the next round of down votes start!

  • DingoBilly on 26/06/2020 - 11:39
    +9

    If you are unhappy then you should raise the issue with the lodger BUT it needs to be clear that YOU are the one who made the mistake here, don't sit and blame them for not thinking everything through. If you explain your situation maybe you can compromise and they'll be more mindful of having the heater on, or something similar.

    In general, bundling bills and rental together is not the brightest idea for exactly the reason you've realized here. If neither of you are bound to contract then sure, go ahead and negotiate/find a new tenant and try not to make the same mistake.

    Again though, I do worry you're the kind of person that it would suck to rent from based on how quickly you are to excuse your own behaviour and blame things on the tenant. Please be considerate of your own actions and behaviour, no-one likes a greedy landlord.

  • Hangryuman on 26/06/2020 - 11:47
    +1

    here's an example - we sublet a 2 bedroom unit - was 4 international visa types before COVID - now only one left after others went home to stay with relatives for free.

    gas (hot water) and electricity (clothes dryer, stove, internet, heaters, washing machine) bills included.

    last year with 4 people electricity bills averaged $20-25pw

    most recently - dwindling to 1 person now - electricity bill averaged $21pw.

    so including stove, internet, washing machine, dryer(says he doesn't use), that's $3 per day - total.

    if you can demonstrate the difference in electricity bills before and after this 'problem' you should be able to talk to your blodger and discuss 'hey - what do you think about this ?'

    in which case, they might respond 'far queue - I'm gonna move out'

    that should solve the problem of them using the heater !

    • Baghern on 28/06/2020 - 13:26

      thats crazy low, being international students, they probably know to conserve electricity

    • Emerald Owl on 28/06/2020 - 16:47
      -2

      Ah yes the old 2 international students to a room. Tell me more how international students are such a great addition to Australia and don’t just clog infrastructure, take from charities, drive up rents, work illegally, etc.

      You can’t buy anywhere in the city without having to live next to this slum crap,

  • AustriaBargain on 26/06/2020 - 12:16

    You should have asked for more lodging fee before you even put your ad out. Make sure it covers excess usage from the start without needing to mention usage at all. Best case is you are given money for excess use that never happens, worst case is they are paying for their excess usage, either way you don’t need to stress anymore over a few bucks. In summer you may be fine with sweating to save a few bucks, but I’d be running a little AC in my room. You shouldn’t have to worry about their usage, they shouldn’t have to be aware of your worry about their usage, and a heater or cooler isn’t really out of the norm. If they were running a server farm in their room, that would be excessive. A little space heater is not. Just charge more, ask $30 more a week when it’s time to renew, and if they move out just include that in the advertised price.

  • DarwinBoy on 26/06/2020 - 13:06
    +2

    Ask to put a power usage plug on the heater so you both are aware of the increase in cost and CO2 usage and have an adult conversation about it.
    Base the decision on facts and see where you end up.

  • nebula98 on 26/06/2020 - 13:09
    -1

    If boarder is good looking I would b setting heater to 35deg c,if not 20 deg dir fine

  • TRANCE on 26/06/2020 - 14:21
    +1

    It's normal. I use an oil column heater all day currently.

  • AEKaBeer on 26/06/2020 - 14:43

    I've been using a large central electric heater for this last bill cycle for easily 18 hours a day, (our second was born in March). The central systems are an order of magnitude greater than the little fan heaters. Our total bill only went up approx $150 over the quarter.

    I would look at an alternative provider, having worked on the shared floor as one of the broker companies (won't name which one), the staff would always complain when they had to push more AGL deals due to their higher rates.

    Check out the government comparison site and get what suits your needs the most.

  • [Deactivated] on 26/06/2020 - 19:07
    +7

    You sound disturbed and the lodger should run asap

  • 91rs on 26/06/2020 - 19:29
    +1

    Firstly you sound like a terrible person to have to live with or share a unit with. Maybe look to work on that, no one likes controlling people like that especially if they are in a situation where they have to also live with you in the same place.

    You made the deal, deal with it. Are you going to micromanage all other aspects of their consumption? no flushing for #1's? Only X amount of times you can use the microwave during the day?, remove half the lights or give them a headlamp?
    Is the heater property of the person living there or yours? What kind of heater is it (not all heaters are the same and some are much cheaper to run than others).

    It does not sound unreasonable for someone to use a heater in winter even in the middle of the day.
    Being WFH now I turn my heating (gas central, no other choice) from after I get up till an hour or so before I go to bed, mostly as there is little direct sunlight, the room i am working from doesnt get any direct sunlight, has shadows from next unit (given the terrible planning and building) and even though they thought it'd be nice to have two very large windows they just help the heat escape as no one in this country seems to believe in glazed windows or other thermal solutions for the million dollar places this country is littered with.
    That's after having a couple layers of clothes on, the heater is only set to 20. Its about 5-8c more than the temp when I get up.

  • Name on 26/06/2020 - 20:19

    Does the heater have a thermostat?

    Reason I ask is my air conditioner is set to 18 degrees during winter. I often forget to turn it off in the morning, the inverter / outdoor unit doesn't turn on during the day as it's normally too warm. So it barely costs anything.

  • Cherry12 on 26/06/2020 - 20:37
    +1

    Reduce the rent and ask the lodger to share the bills. Once he/she knows that he/she will pay half of the use will be more careful with usage.

  • Brianqpr on 26/06/2020 - 20:40
    +3

    Sounds like my wife. With the fire already on, she'll say "I'm freezing,is anyone else cold or is it just me?". We'll say "no, we're fine" and she'll turn on the split system heater anyway.

    Perfectly good jumpers remain in the wardrobe.

  • sintro on 26/06/2020 - 20:58

    Go to Aldi with them and offer to pay $29.99 for their merino undergarment and they can turn off the heater during the day.
    https://www.aldi.com.au/en/special-buys/special-buys-sat-4-j…

  • jonathonsunshine on 26/06/2020 - 21:26
    -1

    Regardless of right or wrong, if you try to force them to not use the heater, they will find another way to piss you off. I think you need to either let this go or kick them out.

    • 91rs on 26/06/2020 - 23:02

      "they will find another way to piss you off"
      I think you mean OP will find another thing that pisses him off. This doesn't seem like an intentional act to upset OP by the person who he is sharing his place with.
      I'm not sure OP is fit to be living with strangers, living with randoms isn't for everyone, sounds like this is a financial decision only.
      This is probably the first in a list of things that would upset OP enough to post on the internet about it! If he makes it till summer I'm sure we will have another thread!

    • No ONE on 27/06/2020 - 11:59
      -1

      they will find another way to piss you off

      Then you don't need that kind of people in your property.

  • Mokr on 26/06/2020 - 22:34
    +1

    Start by plastic wrapping the windows. And installing door seals on doors. Add carpet as well.

  • kaleidoscope on 27/06/2020 - 01:18

    well if the bills get too high have a discussion over it that it’s too much to cover with rent which I assume any reasonable person would understand. I know the pain you’re talking about. Whenever I get overseas visitors around winter it’s 24/7 heating :-(

    I’ve recently tried using scheduled heating in mornings and evenings + couple of hours at night and that seemed to work

  • BrokenChairs on 27/06/2020 - 01:30
    +1

    From WHSQ (aligned to the safe work Australia code of practice).

    "In Australia, most people work comfortably in an office when temperatures are between 20°-24°C in winter when employees are wearing winter clothes, and in summer between 23°-26°C when staff are wearing lightweight clothes."

    At 17 degrees I can understand why someone would want to put the heater on. As someone who is mindful of bills and cutting down costs I also understand your perspective… that said your values and comfort-level threshold shouldnt be projected onto them.

    Consider also that they may have entered the agreement with the mindset that you would exhibit the same behaviour as them (using the heater).

  • BluebirdV on 27/06/2020 - 07:34
    +1

    Anyone live at Guyra in NSW? Last Tuesday the maximum temperature was 3.8 degrees. Do you think it would be Ok to use the heater at midday there?

    • Logical on 27/06/2020 - 18:08

      No point having the heater on outside or was it only 3.8 degrees inside your house?

  • No ONE on 27/06/2020 - 11:56

    Lodger current behavior is like 24/7, as heater was notice on at 12pm, 4pm early winter (heard noise from corridor)

    24/7 sounds like an abuse. Lodger should pay extra as that is unreasonable usage.

    • dizzle on 27/06/2020 - 12:07
      +3

      Except the OP doesn't know they are using it 24/7. THey are assuming that if they are using it at midday, they are using it all the time.

  • greatlamp on 27/06/2020 - 13:37

    You put in a lodger to make money.

    I assume you are still making plenty. If this person left and you found someone new, would you be willing to trade these issues for others?
    You could get someone who is dirty, on drugs, steals your stuff, etc etc.

    Take your emotions out of it, what % chance do you have to find the perfect lodger. What % perfect is this one? How much money do you lose in the time it takes to move people in and out? How much is having someone you can trust to keep your home clean and quiet worth?

    This sounds like something you shouldn't be complaining about when someone is otherwise a good tenant.

  • ribze1 on 27/06/2020 - 15:42
    +1

    Middle of the day in Sydney, definitely not.

  • Baghern on 27/06/2020 - 15:45

    heh get a new room mate, it would be extremely hard for them to give up.

    some people just don't understand costs of things they don't pay directly for.

    My brother and I use to share a car, because I always fill up before its 25% and he fills it up at 10%, meant I filled up 95% of the time.
    My brother was extremely heavy on the accelerator. One of those idiots on the road who jumps between lanes to get that extra second.

    Since he got his own car, yeh he's become extremely conservative with our he drives. Add to this when Im at his place, its always "turn off the light" now as well.

  • zombree18 on 27/06/2020 - 15:55

    I run way colder than my partner, so I understand why to some they might think a heater is ridiculous but others might need it. Sometimes I'll have on a jumper, trackies and ugg boots and still be cold. Bodies are weird and different. Don't dismiss.

    However, if they're like in shorts and a tee with the heater on, that's ridiculous.

  • wallet72 on 27/06/2020 - 16:35

    talk to your lodger about contributing to the power bill. If they say no then ask them to move out.

    If you are unhappy as you sound about the situation that's pretty much your only options.

  • Sammy Boi on 27/06/2020 - 18:00
    +1

    You seem to be monitoring their activity but you didn't include information like if they leave doors or Windows open or if they are wearing adequate clothing before they turn on the heater. I'm sure gender and weight is a massive factor as well.

    From reading the provided information it seems like you are more telling your side of the story than just giving us the facts

  • Intoxicoligist on 27/06/2020 - 19:36

    Have a conversation with the lodger. Tell them that you noticed the heater on during the day. Ask them if they are cold or if there is anything else you can do to help them out. Let them know that you want to help them stay warm but that running the heater the whole day is going to use a lot of electricity, which is included in her rent under the current agreement. Let them know you want to help, but can't shoulder the bill on your own, so something needs to be changed. If they are willing to reduce using the heater to overnight then that solves the problem. If they don't want to do this you can discuss modifying the arrangement to either

    • Include paying X% of the power bill. To be fair make sure you reduce the rent if this was previously included, do the math to offset the average % of the power bill against the decrease in rent based on power during summer months when heating not running (that way you both pay for increased heater usage without you losing out on rent income).

    • Increase rent by $X a week, based on whatever you want really, but I'd suggest comparing the winter bills to last years after letting her use the power however she wants (that way you get a rough max usage figure). Then increase weekly by the corresponding amount.

  • Koppeldread on 27/06/2020 - 22:02
    +2

    Lmao. It's winter and she is cold. She wants to use the heater to warm up and she is paying you to be able to do so. You are an absolute nutcase to think you have any right to tell her to turn it off. If you do then your tenant has every right to ask for a reduction in her rent as you are essentially asking if you can renegotiate your contract with her.

  • Eeples on 27/06/2020 - 22:21
    +1

    Can you install a reverse cycle Inverter systems and heat the whole place ?

    If she is wearing shorts and a singlet… I think she is taking advantage.

    • 91rs on 27/06/2020 - 22:31

      "I think she is taking advantage"
      Amusing given this whole site is about getting the very best deal for everything you can, even if it's sometimes questionable.
      Agree about the RC Inverter system, OP never said what kind of heater is in use, maybe OP will reply later when its off peak power time or from some free wifi somewhere to let us know.

  • diceman99 on 27/06/2020 - 22:33

    Tell her you'll drop the rent by $10 per week so long as she pays 20% of electricity bill

  • mawinmawin on 28/06/2020 - 08:44
    -1

    Get an usage measuring smart plug for her, and charge her based on the usage after consulting her.

    • dizzle on 28/06/2020 - 09:00
      +4

      I wouldn't use one. It's one thing to pay a % of the bill, but I'm not going to be monitored and micro managed. What's next? Timing how long my showers are to pay the water bill?

      • mawinmawin on 28/06/2020 - 10:22
        -1

        OP has a valid point about the high consuming device usage. People should be reasonable with their usage when it is free (or included flat, like unlimited data).

        • dizzle on 28/06/2020 - 11:34
          +3

          Then include it in the rent or don't include it, but don't be petty and monitor usage: "he used $8.46 of electricity today, so I'll charge him for that", "they used 64% of the internet this month so they pay for 64% of the bill"

        • boostpak on 28/06/2020 - 16:57
          +3

          @mawinmawin you sound ridiculous mate

  • Tiredman on 28/06/2020 - 10:14
    +2

    We have a 6.6kw solar so not too fussed. For homeowners, worth investing in one esp with the rebates in VIC. My payback is approx 4 years.

  • frostman on 28/06/2020 - 11:09

    What annoys me is people having the heater on, and wearing those thin Myer Flannelette pyjamas complaining of the cold.

  • djmm on 28/06/2020 - 11:15
    -3

    I'm waiting for the feminists to chime in

  • The Value on 28/06/2020 - 11:30
    +1

    A beanie and socks will do wonders.

  • ddn2004 on 28/06/2020 - 11:40
    +1

    Is it one of those issues where the OP hasn't talked about the problem with the other person before deciding on what to do next?

    • serpserpserp on 28/06/2020 - 13:28
      +1

      Clearly no adults in the room.

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