WHO Updates Guidance on Mask. Should Australia Follow?

THL on 06/06/2020 - 23:07
Last edited 07/06/2020 - 11:07

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52945210?fbclid=IwAR3Z4MEx0M…

Today, the World Health Organization (WHO) has changed its advice on face masks, saying they should be worn in public where social distancing is not possible to help stop the spread of coronavirus.

This is in contrast with its previous advice, stating only medical face masks should be worn by people who are sick and by those caring for them.

Many other countries like Spain,USA and Taiwan have all made wearing masks mandatory either in public spaces or on public transport.

Question:Should Australian Government updates its guidance and make wearing masks/any face covering compulsory on public transport, airplanes or locations where there is community transmission and social distancing is impossible?

Poll Options expired

  • 114
    No - Keep it as it is.
  • 296
    Yes - Guidance should be updated.
Health & Beauty

Comments

    • mccarthyp64 on 06/06/2020 - 23:26
      +47

      It's currently the instrument of the Chinese Government's propaganda department, so no.

      • triviums on 06/06/2020 - 23:58
        +6

        If China has nothing to gain then their word should be listened to.

        • vikvance on 07/06/2020 - 06:22
          +10

          If China has nothing to gain then their word should be listened to.

          It is a Communist regime that killed 77 million of their own people.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_…

          • lubos on 07/06/2020 - 08:08
            +28

            @vikvance: WHO also says to use condoms. You will not use condoms because WHO is influenced by China and they killed 77 million of their own people?

        • OZBargainer in SA on 07/06/2020 - 08:44
          +2

          I'm sure most of the commercially available face masks are made in China

        • BBear53 on 07/06/2020 - 17:44
          +3

          Well China already finished hoarding the world's supply of masks during the panic and probably decided the world needs to use them now so they can sell them back to us.

      • BigBirdy on 07/06/2020 - 08:51
        +9

        Name checks out

      • CalmLemons on 07/06/2020 - 21:37
        +29

        God. Every doctor and health professional probably wants to kill themselves after reading this thread.

        Wear a mask ffs, it saves lives.

        If you're going to go down that China is bad rabbit hole instead of addressing the actual science, you might as well stop using ozbargain as 99% of your bargains are Made in China - if you didn't want to be a hypocrite, that is.

        • AlexF on 08/06/2020 - 11:33
          -2

          Wear a mask ffs, it saves lives.

          N95 masks are hard to come by. Australian government would have recommended them (regardless of WHO) otherwise.
          Does public transport infrastructure have pervasive indemnity? What if I prove I became COVID infected whilst on train - can I sue?

          • gromit on 08/06/2020 - 19:24
            +1

            @AlexF: they WERE hard to come buy, supply has very much ramped up. I had no trouble at all buying some last week and have seen them in chemists as well. Unless Canberra is an anomaly I would expect supply constraints are no where near as bad as they were.

          • CalmLemons on 09/06/2020 - 01:08
            +6

            @AlexF: Any mask will do. It's to reduce the CHANCE of infected individuals coughing a high percentage of droplets a greater distance.

            No mask, no % reduced.

            Some shit mask 50% chance reduction.

            Some fabric cloth, 30% chance reduction.

            Put this another way, would you prefer a 30%, 50% or 0% reduction on your home loan interest rate? Something is always better than nothing.

            It is worded to wear a mask to protect yourself, as humans are selfish as and mostly only do things for themselves. In truth, it is wear a mask, to protect others.

            • AlexF on 09/06/2020 - 08:39
              -4

              @CalmLemons: Nice try. No, I won’t consider buying not fit-for-purpose masks.

    • frewer on 07/06/2020 - 14:35
      -3

      Until they cant explain this in common English or give a scientific reason for it.

      https://twitter.com/The_Real_Fly/status/1269368669324423168
      https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1269240010928160768

      NO !

    • Herbse on 07/06/2020 - 22:05
      +2

      Trump says they're bad so therefore they're bad

  • Seraphin7 on 06/06/2020 - 23:19
    +16

    Yeah, like I'm listening to that corrupt outfit.

      • [Deactivated] on 07/06/2020 - 00:35
        +32

        The warning for January was that human to human transmission didn't occur because China said so, and not to close borders, also because China said so. They also delayed the pandemic status due to pressure and still only said it had the characteristics of a pandemic, rather than calling it one.

        Let's see what the WHO do have to say:

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-31/who-taiwan/12105804?n…

          • [Deactivated] on 07/06/2020 - 01:14
            +22

            @try2bhelpful: From your link, the WHO are revisioning history, or being highly selective:

            "14 January 2020

            WHO's technical lead for the response noted in a press briefing there may have been limited human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus (in the 41 confirmed cases), mainly through family members, and that there was a risk of a possible wider outbreak. The lead also said that human-to-human transmission would not be surprising given our experience with SARS, MERS and other respiratory pathogens. "

            versus actual WHO Jan 14 tweet:

            “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China,” the organization had said."

            https://nypost.com/2020/03/20/who-haunted-by-old-tweet-sayin…

            Regarding Trump, I wouldn't listen to his health advice if I wanted to stay alive. I do remember Scomo saying there was no urgent need to cancel rugby games, that could wait. Australia went ahead fully with the F1 GP and it was only the pit crew union that stopped the GP. That meant huge international crowds all descended on Australia during a world pandemic period. Those were truly stupid decisions excused only by a lack of consequence.

            There's a fair argument that Australia made some of the worst decisions possible during critical periods and just got lucky due to environmental or other factors.

            • try2bhelpful on 07/06/2020 - 02:04
              -8

              @[Deactivated]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization%27s_…

              The tweet was that the Chinese authorities had indicated no clear evidence of human to human transmission. That does not negate what was said in the press conference, it only indicates what Chinese authorities had told WHO. So what did you expect WHO to do at that stage? They are reporting on what the Nation with the issue is telling them from their investigations. That is not an indication of corruption and they made it clear this information came from China.

              The point is that the situation was confusing but WHO was issuing strong warnings. They had a definite follow up of human to human transmission on the 20th of January, according to a Wiki. This is only 6 days later. Frankly, I still think the timelines are short given un unknown disease. How long before China called in WHO is a different discussion.

              Amen on our decisions. The women’s T20 final at the MCG with 850 people yelling their heads off gives me the shivers even now.

          • StarvingOat on 07/06/2020 - 14:17
            +2

            @try2bhelpful: How many acts of genocide constitutes a genocide?

            Something I'm reminded of

    • sarahlump on 08/06/2020 - 05:47
      +1

      The WHO were the body who influenced the plan for all nations to have a strategy for dealing with a sars like outbreak for the last 10 years. The plan that Australia used to make sure it had infrastructure and systems of information in place to handle this disaster.

      • Seraphin7 on 09/06/2020 - 18:11

        Yeah, that plan's worked well hasn't it? I guess that what's happens when you kow tow to communist regimes.

  • resubaehtgnolhcs on 06/06/2020 - 23:30
    +6

    Venturing out the front door and there is no social distancing … as is evident when you go to any shopping centre, department store and even some cafe and restaurants.

    • Diji1 on 07/06/2020 - 01:14
      -8

      How many days since any new infections in your region? If it's more than 14 the pandemic is over.

      • Antikythera on 09/06/2020 - 13:35
        +1

        the WHO guidance states…

        "the general public to wear masks where there is widespread transmission and physical distancing is difficult,"

        Australia does not have widespread transmission. no need here.

        • [Deactivated] on 27/06/2020 - 14:28
          +1

          I'd say for most of Australia this is true, but in hotspots it would be a smart idea, or areas where large numbers of people mix, or if sick. Honestly if you even have a normal cold/flu it would be a good idea that we get into the habit out of politeness. One thing that this has driven home is how much of just the regular seasonal flu is preventable.

  • saltypete on 06/06/2020 - 23:50
    +37

    I think the mask advice changes with supply. Early on there were real supply problems and the advice was not to wear. Now supplies are up the advice is changing. I Think the argument for wearing on public transport, and probably supermarkets makes some sense.

    • plmko on 07/06/2020 - 00:04
      +18

      It was clearly propaganda to hold back the masses from rushing to the suppliers. To think people ran with the lie that masks did nothing unless they were high grade particle filter approved.

      • try2bhelpful on 07/06/2020 - 00:13

        A lot of what was being sold commercially is fake and given the level of mask wearing and the level of disease in a Australia it is, obvious, the average Australian doesn’t need to wear one. They were needed for people who were front line. Frankly, you can have my supply of masks.

        • netjock on 07/06/2020 - 12:21
          -1

          You are right. It is not hard to socially distance in Australia. It is people asking for excuses to not socially distance.

        • jaejae69 on 09/06/2020 - 12:16

          Frankly, you can have my share of viruses too.

      • CalmLemons on 07/06/2020 - 21:40
        +6

        Yes, this. Every government knew no point telling people to wear masks, as they literally aren't enough of them. That's why once the US got enough masks, they started saying wear them.

        How easy it is to manipulate the mob, right?

        • [Deactivated] on 27/06/2020 - 14:26

          This is both true and not the whole story. Masks are much better at stopping people from giving others the virus than stopping people from getting the virus, if there's not a lot of virus in the community it doesn't make sense to wear a mask improperly unless sick. Once the odds of the mask wearer actually having the virus increases it's much more important. Unfortunately now in the US people won't wear masks because they don't believe anything (and also they believe everything).

          So many people here were wearing masks in a way that actually increased their chances of getting the virus (eg, pulling it down and then up, smearing any virus into your nose and mouth, or touching it, wearing it while damp etc). In those situations you'd be better off not wearing the mask, unless sick. But nuance is a tough message to sell to a public that doesn't cope with complexity.

          Obviously it's also true they admitted to trying to dissuade the public from using their medical stockpile, which should have been handled differently, but you could see all the doctors dying in Italy etc and see why they were terrified of the same.

    • TEER3X on 07/06/2020 - 08:58
      +17

      Exactly. They had to lie to prevent supply issues for health care workers, plain and simple.

      Masks work, we should all wear them in crowded places.

      • netjock on 07/06/2020 - 12:21
        +3

        Maybe we should all stop contributing to crowding. It is free.

        • AlexF on 08/06/2020 - 23:46
          -1

          Try that tip on public transport. Of course, privileged OzB’er would be clueless about that.

          • netjock on 09/06/2020 - 00:15
            +1

            @AlexF: OzB'er would be clueless because they bought a bike. Cheaper than public transport in the long run.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/06/2020 - 09:57
      +11

      Definitely lies to prevent running out of masks. Which makes sense when emergency staff need it at hospitals, but it annoys me that people are running around going masks don't work coz WHO said so. Even a nurse told me this. Well what about the billions of people in Asia wearing one? And the pandemic is under control over there? Were they wrong? People are sheep.

  • Diji1 on 07/06/2020 - 01:13
    -6

    I don't know about any other states but the pandemic is over in SA and has been for over a month, no new cases.

    So not much reason to wear masks unless there's a second wave.

    Australian Government has done relatively well other than that NSW woman who looks like a witch allowing a cruise ship in to kill 20 people.

    • TEER3X on 07/06/2020 - 08:58

      Or borders open up

      • MaxTravels on 07/06/2020 - 11:12
        +4

        It is scary that it only takes one person to start another wave - look at Bundaberg and Brisbane this week. Bundaberg had no active cases and now an "essential worker" has been allowed to enter the state and move freely while infected.

    • Greihawk on 07/06/2020 - 17:04
      -1

      Don't forget Chairman Dan allowing his donor mates at Cedar meats to stay open.

    • Tames71 on 07/06/2020 - 01:42
      +3

      It is not over yet. There are still cases
      And it is only because we closed our borders and provided mandatory 2 week quarentine were we able to reduce the spred intensifying.

    • TEER3X on 07/06/2020 - 08:56
      +3

      We're not out of the clear yet. Cold and dry temperatures are a good environment for spreading the disease. We've been lucky so far.

    • mookieconster on 07/06/2020 - 09:23
      +13

      Remember, all it took was probably 1 infected person (patient zero) to ultimately infect the whole planet. It's certainly not over yet.

      • AlexF on 08/06/2020 - 23:54
        +1

        People have a hard time understanding this. “If I don’t see it, it don’t exist.”

      • lyl-Lychee on 09/06/2020 - 18:07

        This is what boggles me. February was not that long ago yet most people in Australia seem to have already forgotten this.

        (Usually the same set of people who were incorrectly crucifying Wuhan's patient-0 for "eating a bat.")

  • Tames71 on 07/06/2020 - 01:44
    +7

    WHO really has lost some credibility by downplaying the severity of this issue and not taking it that seriously at the start.

  • dcep on 07/06/2020 - 02:02
    +11

    pandemic is over

    it's riot season now

    so get together and protest in mass gathering

    • whooah1979 on 07/06/2020 - 02:08
      -4

      We live in the lucky country. There is nothing to protest.

      • dcep on 07/06/2020 - 02:13
        +2

        did you miss the BLM rallies all over the cities today ?

        • whooah1979 on 07/06/2020 - 02:17

          Yes. What happened?

          • dcep on 07/06/2020 - 02:29

            @whooah1979: you can join them tomorrow

            • whooah1979 on 07/06/2020 - 09:00
              +1

              @dcep: I don't support unlawful protests.

              • [Deactivated] on 07/06/2020 - 09:59
                +3

                @whooah1979: Didn't you hear the Sydney protest was ruled lawful

                • whooah1979 on 07/06/2020 - 10:17
                  -1

                  @[Deactivated]: I missed that.

                  A decision handed down 12 minutes before the protest started doesn't leave much time for a HCA challenge.

                  • RI4V4N on 08/06/2020 - 12:04
                    +4

                    @whooah1979: One 24 hours before didn't leave much time for appeal. So they won at the shitty game the other side were playing.

                    • whooah1979 on 08/06/2020 - 12:44

                      @RI4V4N: 24 hours is one business day and more than enough time to file an appeal in NSW. 12 minutes to 15:00 leaves only ~90 minutes for an HCA hearing.

      • brendanm on 07/06/2020 - 08:58
        +3

        Of course there is, we can protest other countries issues now.

        • whooah1979 on 07/06/2020 - 09:12
          +3

          We've been accustomed to importing a lot of useless junk from overseas.

      • [Deactivated] on 10/06/2020 - 00:16
        +1

        We live in the lucky country. There is nothing to protest.

        Your reality is not everyone else's reality.. Why is that so hard to understand?
        A 10-year long study found that 3 out of 4 Australians are biased against Indigenous Australians..

  • screensaver on 07/06/2020 - 03:38
    +5

    I intend to continue wearing my masks to protect against flu and covid. And I have found a new use for my disposable masks. To keep the sun off my face. And at night to keep warm from the cold.

    • lyl-Lychee on 09/06/2020 - 18:12

      You sleep at home in your mask? Lol, I don't want to take away from you cause I agree, but please not the disposables for such purposes. I'm not that prudent myself with the disposable PPE but surely we're safe at home unless you don't trust your roomies.

      • screensaver on 10/06/2020 - 12:17

        Outside when its really cold

    • Mango1 on 07/06/2020 - 09:21
      +3

      Its not just your choice if you have the virus and go around infecting everyone because you dont wear a mask. Its for the health of everyone around you.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/06/2020 - 10:01
      +4

      Wow I guess forcing everyone to pay a Medicare levy is also communism coz who doesn't want free healthcare?

    • [Deactivated] on 07/06/2020 - 10:15
      +2

      Then make sure you don’t go to hospital when you’re sick.

    • TEER3X on 07/06/2020 - 08:54
      +12

      That drug does nothing for covid. Where do you get your information from, Facebook?

        • BigBirdy on 07/06/2020 - 09:24
          +6

          How about linking some actual medical evidence rather than quoting a far-right opinion website known for publishing falsehoods and spreading hoaxes?

          • EightImmortals on 07/06/2020 - 09:42
            -7

            @BigBirdy: Would you like fries with that?

            Here's a couple.

            https://www.google.com/url?q=https://docs.google.com/documen…

            Recent guidelines from South Korea and China report that chloroquine is an effective antiviral therapeutic treatment against Coronavirus Disease 2019. Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay. US CDC research shows that chloroquine also has strong potential as a prophylactic (preventative) measure against coronavirus in the lab, while we wait for a vaccine to be developed. Chloroquine is an inexpensive, globally available drug that has been in widespread human use since 1945 against malaria, autoimmune and various other conditions.

            It concludes:

            Chloroquine can both prevent and treat malaria. Chloroquine can both prevent and treat coronavirus in primate cells (Figure 1 and Figure 2). According to South Korean and China human treatment guidelines, chloroquine is effective in treating COVID-19. Given chloroquine’s human safety profile and existence, it can be implemented today in the U.S., Europe and the rest of the world. Medical doctors may be reluctant to prescribe chloroquine to treat COVID-19 since it is not FDA approved for this use. The United States of America and other countries should immediately authorize and indemnify medical doctors for prescribing chloroquine to treat COVID-19. We must explore whether chloroquine can safely serve as a preventative measure prior to infection of COVID-19 to stop further spread of this highly contagious virus.

            Here's another.

            Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studiesJianjun Gao, Zhenxue Tian, Xu Yang

            Abstract

            The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) virus is spreading rapidly, and scientists are endeavoring to discover drugs for its efficacious treatment in China. Chloroquine phosphate, an old drug for treatment of malaria, is shown to have apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against COVID-19 associated pneumonia in multicenter clinical trials conducted in China. The drug is recommended to be included in the next version of the Guidelines for the Prevention, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Pneumonia Caused by COVID-19 issued by the National Health Commission of the People’s Republic of China for treatment of COVID-19 infection in larger populations in the future.

            https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/14/1/14_2020.01047/…

            And a third.

            https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0?fbclid=IwA…

            Chloroquine, a widely-used anti-malarial and autoimmune disease drug, has recently been reported as a potential broad-spectrum antiviral drug.8,9 Chloroquine is known to block virus infection by increasing endosomal pH required for virus/cell fusion, as well as interfering with the glycosylation of cellular receptors of SARS-CoV.10 Our time-of-addition assay demonstrated that chloroquine functioned at both entry, and at post-entry stages of the 2019-nCoV infection in Vero E6 cells (Fig. 1c, d). Besides its antiviral activity, chloroquine has an immune-modulating activity, which may synergistically enhance its antiviral effect in vivo. Chloroquine is widely distributed in the whole body, including lung, after oral administration. The EC90 value of chloroquine against the 2019-nCoV in Vero E6 cells was 6.90 μM, which can be clinically achievable as demonstrated in the plasma of rheumatoid arthritis patients who received 500 mg administration.11 Chloroquine is a cheap and a safe drug that has been used for more than 70 years and, therefore, it is potentially clinically applicable against the 2019-nCoV.

            Our findings reveal that remdesivir and chloroquine are highly effective in the control of 2019-nCoV infection in vitro. Since these compounds have been used in human patients with a safety track record and shown to be effective against various ailments, we suggest that they should be assessed in human patients suffering from the novel coronavirus disease.

            • [Deactivated] on 07/06/2020 - 10:39
              +3

              @EightImmortals: Those studies have been debunked as unreliable https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/coul…

              • EightImmortals on 07/06/2020 - 11:54

                @[Deactivated]: lols mate, seriously, that article didn't mention ANY of the studies I linked to (unless I missed them?) so your claim that they have all been debunked is nonsense. Also, from your own link, the study that you are referring to that presumably debunks all those other studies has, indeed been totally ridiculed itself. It even said so in the article YOU posted.

                "UPDATE: Since this Research Check was published, The Lancet has retracted the study it published (and which is evaluated in this article), explaining that three of the study’s authors said they “can no longer vouch for the veracity of the primary data sources” and were unable to independently audit the data.

                The journal previously issued an expression of concern over the study, referring to “serious scientific questions” over the provenance of the data. The World Health Organisation has also announced it will resume its trial of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19, after temporarily suspending it in response to the Lancet study."

        • sarahlump on 08/06/2020 - 05:51

          If you get a scab on your leg you can just cut your whole leg off. It'l solve the scab.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 07/06/2020 - 08:27
    -5

    My opinion of the wonderful 12 steps to the Covid19 'propoganda' timeline:-

    1st, it was to protect your parents and grandparents from dying from Covid - and not age related diseases.
    2nd, there is not enough hospital beds, yes we will stop helping those in in point 1 if push comes to shove.
    3rd, flatten the real curve, not your waistline.
    4th, lockdown now - its OK to lose your job, maybe lose your home, but its OK because you are alive
    5th, download the Covid tracking app, you know who you are if you haven't downloaded it (maybe me?) Get your pets to download it too because if they poop at the park, we know which dog did it!
    6th, blame China, wait blame all asians - stop going to Kmart or Target because most of their stuff is made somewhere in Asia, but hey, everyone has their price
    7th, watch out for the second wave or tsunami because we eased restrictions too quickly (or maybe not)
    8th, Australia is in a recession OR is this an excuse? Liberals manages the economy better? yet I thought we were in a recession well over 12month ago, interest rates like Coles commercials - down down, interest rates are down.
    9th, wear a mask in public*
    10th, watch out for the third wave - did we even get a second wave?
    11th, stil waiting for a vaccine? There is no vaccines for many ugly viruses and diseases, is this one of them?
    12th, watch out for ongoing waves

    • we are here
  • TEER3X on 07/06/2020 - 08:55
    +23

    Plenty of studies that show face masks are effective (up to 80%) in preventing transmission

    We've come so close to eradicating the disease, might as well wear masks so we can get rid of it completely.

    • netjock on 07/06/2020 - 12:26

      Social distancing. Why you want to wear a face mask and get close to unknown strangers?

      • whooah1979 on 07/06/2020 - 12:35

        Humans are social animals. Physical interactions is in our DNA.

        • netjock on 07/06/2020 - 13:19
          +1

          Survival of the fittest. Those who can adapt. Virus adapt to live. We refuse to adapt to live. Sounds like a good survival plan.

          • whooah1979 on 07/06/2020 - 16:50

            @netjock: You’re right. It is survival of the fittest. The sooner the lockdown and social distancing is over the sooner the virus can do what it was designed to do.

            • smartazz104 on 08/06/2020 - 22:40

              @whooah1979: You only need to go take a walk in a crowded place to realise most of the population would be wiped out. Hell if we go by posts here most people struggle to put their pants on in the morning, you think they could survive such a potentially fatal virus?

              • whooah1979 on 09/06/2020 - 00:23

                @smartazz104: Australia's coronavirus infection-fatality ratio is 71:1. That means most Australians will survive.

          • sarahlump on 08/06/2020 - 05:54

            @netjock: so basically the shutins inherit the earth

            • netjock on 08/06/2020 - 09:20

              @sarahlump: Basically same concept as those who get drunk then go walking in the bush and fall over a cliff in the dark. Except this time you've been told not to go out. Given there are good reasons to go out but you just need to be careful.

              Risk is multiplied when you are out more often, be in presence of strangers and confined space more often. We all like a perfect world but it is imperfect. Adapt or suck up the consequences. Logic not hysteria will get you through this.

    • verio on 07/06/2020 - 18:20

      Do you have any links to the studies that show effectiveness of cloth masks for an average person? I have a feeling that the number that many people claim (up to 80%) is based on the case when a proper mask (not a reusable one) is used and it is applied correctly (e.g. no touching of the mask when removing it, adjusting it only with clean hands, etc things that doctors know). I would like to read more studies based on real-world mask usage.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/06/2020 - 09:12
    +5

    recent events have proven that WHO is useless and stupid. No wonder it is named so. Trump is right to pull out.

    • netjock on 07/06/2020 - 12:27
      +14

      If only Trump's dad pulled out all those years ago.

    • CalmLemons on 07/06/2020 - 21:43
      +3

      So I guess you're going to go handle the newest Ebola outbreak in the Congo for us, right mate?

      All large non-private industry organisations are stupid. All governments are stupid. They all bleed, OUR money. It is the way of things. It is why SpaceX can do what NASA has been doing for 20 times less the price.

      You get rid of the WHO, you're just going to replace with WHO No. 2

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