Would you buy a gold block with the savings you have but don’t know what to do with it and isn’t ready to buy property and not interested in shares
What are the pros and cons of this
Perth Mint Gold Block
Layla11 on 10/05/2020 - 22:28
Comments
It could go either way.
You could go either way
you left right after that.
Gold is a hedge against inflation
It's impossible to predict the length of the recession or whether gold will appreciate or if like at the start of COVID people will buy USD instruments
The US is under considerably more pressure to keep printing money than Australia. The AUD can easily rise 10% over the next few months.
I'll bet you $100 the Australian dollar won't appreciate 10% against the USD over the next 3 months.
What do you think the even bet would be? 5% at any time? That would be all loss for the OP. AUD is also at a recent local high. I think you would be nervous at 63.5-64c realistic current price with 5% to work with. Pelosi is gunning for more spending. Riots there can happen.
10% seems like a reasonable prediction. Australian and USA are polar opposites when it comes to handling COVID-19 and USA is printing trillions of dollars, devaluing their currency.
I'll bet you $100
Is that Australian dollars or US dollars?
"I'll bet you $100 the Australian dollar won't appreciate 10% against the USD over the next 3 months."
Getting nervous yet, after just a month?
Me 11/05/2020: "Riots there can happen."
FTW
@[Deactivated]: Haha good call mate 👍 It's getting pretty close.
I'd love to see our dollar at parity with the USD again like back in 2011-13. I remember getting all my electronics imported from there.
Though I'm starting to think it's part of their recovery plan to devalue their currency so they can revive local manufacturing and exports to some extent.
Definitely an interesting few months ahead.
pls explain; source?
Tomato with edible gold flakes.
Gold was $300oz 20 years ago, $800 not long before that.
Now it is much higher. Soon, it might be higher or lower or the same.
That's all that can be said with any accuracy.you can also make the claim that gold is an unproductive, speculative asset which has no fundamental value (as it does not produce a cashflow).
Looking back over history, the value of gold has kept up with inflation, but has not beaten owning the same amount of money in stocks.
So unless you have no confidence in the survival of western civilization and capitalism, owning stocks is much more preferable than gold.
If you have no confidence in the survival of western civilization, then owning gold is also useless, because you'd better off owning bullets and medicine etc. After all, it'd be the apocalypse if western civilization collapses.
The only thing i would suggest, is that you have somewhere safe to store it if you do. And by safe i mean something lockable, that can't be opened without a combination or code lock and is bolted down somewhere, preferably on concrete. if you do not have a safe to store it in, i'd be getting one of those first. Also you'll find that precious metals generally aren't covered under home insurance policies due to how valuable and fungible they are. Also I'd also add to say TELL ABSOLUTELY NOBODY ABOUT IT. if they don't know it exists, they wont either look for it themselves, or blab about it to others who may want to take it from you.
Ironically buys $1,500 safe to keep good in. Buys some gold. Wait 10 years, gold goes up in price. Sells gold for $400 profit… still $1,100 down because of cost of safe. :D
Oh, and as a locksmith, can I just say, if anyone is planning on storing gold and you need a safe, please don’t store $15,000 worth of gold in a $129 Bunning safe.
Oh, and as a locksmith, can I just say, if anyone is planning on storing gold and you need a safe, please don’t store $15,000 worth of gold in a $129 Bunning safe.
Agreed…..
Any recommendations on a reasonable prices safe that is half ok, but means I don't need to sell my gold bars off to buy?
I was looking at a yale document safe as 'mix' between a few things. I'm mostly after it for fire protection for some documents etc.
I wouldn’t use a document safe for gold or cash. Document safes are good for fire protection but do not offer what you need on way of protection against theft. They are usually much lighter construction and contain thinner walls with different materials in the wall construction,
What you need is a safe that is rated for something like cash. They are much thicker, much heavier and made from much stronger and resistant materials.
The other thing is, it depends on how much gold/cash you plan on holding. There is no sense having a $5,000 safe and storing $1,000 worth of gold in it. Same for volume. There is no sense having a safe that is the size of a fridge if you are only going to be storing an amount of gold that’s about the size of a Nokia 3310.
I would be looking at brands like CMI, Lord and Chubb, not Yale, Masterlock or Sandleford.
The best thing about buying safes is that the second hand market for reselling is woeful (Think worse than caravans and boats). Safes have very poor resale value. I quite regularly pick up very expensive safes at auctions or off Scamtree for a fraction of their original cost. I bought 4 last year from Pickles auctions and paid less for all 4 than what 1 cost new. And a safe isn't like a car, it has a door and that is about it. Very little moving parts and doesn't get moved around. It might have some scratches, but that's about it. They don't wear out. You could easily pick up a $3,000 safe for $500 second hand.
I wouldn’t use a document safe for gold or cash
Agreed, but as above, I'm after something for documents that protects against fire more than theft. I'm not a gold or cash hoarder :)
Just to keep some documents/passports safe if there was a fire etc.
I would be looking at brands like CMI, Lord and Chubb, not Yale, Masterlock or Sandleford.
Thanks I'll check them out.
The best thing about buying safes is that the second hand market for reselling is woeful
Yes been looking a few second hand ones too and I agree, they are cheap! So might go down this route. Just to find one small enough that doesn't weigh what my car does :)
@JimmyF: Oh! Ok, I thought you were looking at keeping papers AND gold. Always base it on the most expensive thing in the safe or what you think you might keep in the safe in the future.
If it's just passports and some financial documents, then a small fire resistant safe would work well. So, in that case, a Yale safe may be a viable alternative and cost a metric tonne less than a CMI or a Chubb.
And yes, I don't know why safes are worth nothing used. I just clean mine up, give them a lick of paint so the look new, adjust the hinges and lube them up and good as new. But if you are buying second hand, just make sure you do your homework on the model on offer and make sure it isn't damaged when you look at it (ie: isnt already burnt)
@pegaxs: Thanks for the tips! Yes will check it out before buying a 2nd hand one and make sure it 'works' and hasn't been in a fire!
@abb: I don't. I've bought about 6~8 in the last 4 or so years. I only buy what I know is good and I buy when someone asks me to source them one. I sometimes buy them to refurbish and resell, but this is rarely and only if I know someone at least wants 1, i might try and buy some in bulk.
And no, there is no great market in buying used safes, refurbing them and selling them on. Because they last virtually forever, they are near impossible to sell.
@pegaxs: I would have thought approximately one, ever, would be about the normal limit ;)
Buying for others explains it though. I'll keep you in mind next time I need a safe broker ;)
We use heavy duty gun safes. We got a deal on them about 20 years ago for $1500 each and bought 3 (at the time RRP was over 4k). They weigh over 400kg each and are bolted to the floor (though we always joke anyone that can lift and take it away probably deserves the reward anyway). great thick walled safes that are fireproof with an inner safe perfect for documents and valuables (intended for magazines, bolts etcs). As suggested you will regularly find great quality safes second hand from businesses that went bust (sadly likely to be a lot of these shortly).
@chriskq: bolts from rifles are easily removed. you are supposed to have them removed for transport and many also do for storage too. From memory it wasn't a requirement to separate them in NSW for storage but it is state dependent and QLD used to require the bolt removed for storage.
Speaking of locksmithing, have you seen squires new beast SS100 dual custody? I have absolutely 0 need for it, but want it so bad.
Yeah, but it's a stupid lock. Its too big for anything really. Being a shielded shackle lock, it would be hard to use with chain (and the chain would weight a tonne on its own) You couldn't use it on a container or as a bike lock. I don't know what reason it would be used for. I think it exists solely because "it can". An industry leading "look at what we can make" widget…
A far more useful padlock would be something like the Asus 83/80. It's a tad smaller at 1.5kg (as opposed to 4.5kg), making it far more usable for things. It doesn't have dual custody though…
@pegaxs: Yeah it's definitely the kind of lock that you would want to incorporate into a custom security solution if you really wanted to use it.. The chain would have to be one with the elongated last link feed through to make it work. The rock is another favourite for sure, especially with a bilock core. Get a load of the squire next to the Mul-t-lock e18h. and that lock is no slouch either! I think Squire were pretty clever sending the ss100 to lockpicking lawyer, getting their brand awareness to 1.62m subscribers. I believe Squire did have an open shackle version of that btw, not sure if they are still doing it but i've seen one online somewhere.
you dont need to store your gold at home, buy and get a private vault which costs like $250 a year with high security and 1Million $ insurance.
"fungible"
word of the day, thanks
.Everything you said I had already had it in my mind space
I’m not one to tell anyone my business
But yes Thankyou for your reply
I will look into there self storage before I thinking about storing it somewhere else if I choose to go down this path and buy a brick :)
A safe-deposit box at a bank is a good choice.
TIL the word fungible
Yes currently gold is at its peak. So if it goes down it will affect your investment directly.
Also keep in mind if you buy gold block there is costs for storing it depending on the quantities. I wouldnt store it in house due to fear of being robbed. Bank locker is usually 250$ annually.
With all the cons said, i do love gold and silver. They are good investments for current market but you are a bit late if value falls down (usually due to stability in economy) there are good chances it might even go up further from here due to covid economy collapse (who knows??)
Check out silver as its value is currently not peaked
Wasn't silver at historical lows a few weeks ago?
interesting
Check out silver as its value is currently not peaked
Is there a price tracker you would recommend for silver (and gold)? Google gives a bunch, but the price varies between them all.
I.e.
Perth Mint has $24.06 (ask) & $23.58 (bid) but no reference to weight nor historical graphs
Kitco has $23.77/Oz
GoldBroker has $23.81/OzThe question is when is there a perfect time to buy ! No one knows but it will never drop
In its valueThat is a very dangerous assumption, I hope you are not planning on buying a kg or 2.
Nothing will "never" drop, yes if you are planning on keeping it for 20 years (and you should) it will "most likely" go up, but so will inflation and everything else.
A good investment tip is to always not buy at "historic highs", so wait a bit.
Apartments and houses. Safest investment. And it always goes up </sarcasm>
Well this aged well.
Where have you been looking at buying this bar from?
Its always a good idea to have some previous metals. I have been buying/selling metals for many years. Do not buy a large "blocks" they are hard to sell. few people would have the money to buy larger bars from you. Buy small weights 1oz or less, they sell fast. Also larger weights aren't generally trusted. Its VERY hard to counterfeit small gold coins but VERY easy to counterfeit larger bars. Preferably, dont buy bars, buy smaller recognisable government issued coins (perth roo/lunar, american eagle, philharmonics, Krugerrands, maple ect)
I always think of Lethal Weapon 2 when I see or hear Krugerrands
Thankyou for your information wise info:)
Gold appreciates in times of economic uncertainty, and depreciates in good times.
I purchased Gold years back for ~$<400oz, and sold some in January 2012 when the price hit ~$1750oz.
Purchased some in November 2016, which I will most certainly be selling off shortly.
You need to watch & time your trading, and be prepared to hold on to it for extended periods of time to make it worth your while.
What I wouldn't be doing is buying Gold at current prices.
The first rule about buying physical gold is to not tell anyone you’re buying it which you may have done on a public forum.
Is just a idea! But thanks :)
Where are all the nut job, gold hoarding dooms day preppers? I usually like listening to them tell people that when all the world’s economy markets crash, gold will be the only thing of value during the ensuing apocalypse.
I'm more of a "lead (moving at 2500 feet/second) will be the most valuable metal during the apocalypse" kind of guy.
the internet tells me black powder muskets are 'only' 1200 ft/s
.With a username like that you shouldn't have had to reference the internets for loading data.
Have you given silver a thought ?
Definitely not interested in silver or white gold
What is "white gold"? lol
Do they sell ounces of it?What about old gold?
Would you buy a gold block with the savings
Gold is at a 2 year high right now……Will it keep going up or will it go back down that is the question?
i am looking at buying like 10gms a year for my kids. From a 20 year horizon, gold seems like a good bet. Stocks would give a better result but requires more management. Gold seems like a good buy n forget option
Buying an index fund doesn't require management.
Our money isn't backed by gold anymore, it isn't a store of value anymore than any other commodity, there is no reason it will be worth more in 20 years, the market shows it doesn't even beat inflation consistently
you dont need to buy physical gold from the perth mint you can buy PMGOLD on the ASX the management fee is only 15 basis points. probably cheaper and safer than insuring the thing
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/perth-mint-gold-asx.html
Product Name: Perth Mint Gold
ASX Ticker: PMGOLD
Base Currency: AUD
Product Size: $292M*
Management Fee: 0.15%Physically redeemable. Unlike many gold exchange traded products, PMGOLD can be physically redeemed for any of The Perth Mint’s bullion coins and bars.
Thankyou I’ll look into this
Paper gold. No thanks.
The management fee is not a fixed 15 basis points. It is 1 unit for up to 1334 units. So it's anywhere from 7.5 basis points to 10,000. Read the PDS or at least the asterisked fine print in the fact sheet you linked before buying or commenting.
Hi Sareth,
good point and thank you for raising this to provide some clarity on the management fee
although if you look up at my original post i never used the word "fixed" in my post but i take your point probably shouldnt have used the word 'only'. you are saying that if someone were to buy a nominal amount of PMGs say 5 for example they would be chewed up by a management fee of 1 PMG and thus the fee is higher than 15 basis points it would be 20%. that is a valid point and yes reading of PDS is highly encouraged !
The PDS on the perth mint website - https://www.perthmint.com/documents/Perth-Mint-Gold-PDS-Feb-…
which I understand to be the most current - says at page 8
"The PMG Management Fee is currently fixed at a rate of 1 PMG for every 667 PMGs held by a Holder (equivalent to 0.15% annually).The minimum PMG Management Fee will be 1 PMG."
It then goes on to say
• if you hold less than 1334 PMGs, 1 PMG will be deducted
• if you hold 1334 to 2000 PMGs, 2 PMGs will be deducted;
• if you hold 2001 to 2667 PMGs, 3 PMGs will be deducted;
and so on.Basically, this means although they charge 1 PMG per 667 AFTER 1334. the first 1334 is only charged at 1 not 2.
so for example someone holding 1334PMGs would indeed only get 7.5 basis points management fee, one could say the "ozbarginer sweet spot?" (LOL)
The use of the word 'only' in my post is mainly to describe that i considered it a good bargain compared to what you get back in return namely from them (again from page 8)
The PMG Management Fee covers the following annual
costs incurred by Gold Corporation:
(a) any shipment, storage and insurance costs associated
with the management of the gold underlying each PMG;
(b) the cost of making this product available to you;
(c) registry and CHESS costs associated with trading in
PMG by its Holders;
(d) any other costs incurred by Gold Corporation at any
time in the future in the management of this product.
At the date of issue of this PDS, Gold Corporation is not
aware of any such costsTo be extremely pedantic, if you owned 1334 units they actually would charge 2, so ~15 basis points, because it's "less than" but not equal to 1334. 1333 is the highest you can own to be charged 1 unit, which is ~7.5bp.
@sareth: sorry your right. 1333 is the sweet spot, good pick up. hopefully through these few posts people can now also be clear on how the management fee works (including me!)
thanks again
The fact you are asking on OzBargain tells me you shouldn't be doing this.
Scouting information :)
Why not platinum or palladium? Even more rare than gold… Lol
You should see my catalytic converter collection!
Depends on you reason for buying physical gold
1)If you want your to have direct control of your assets (i.e. avoid losing them incase bank or fund collapses) then not much other good options apart from other physical assets (e.g. silver, art, wine etc). You could consider bitcoin/cryptocurrency.2)If you think gold is good investment then look at ETF for gold
I think diversifying is the key. get a bit of everything. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, and don't risk more than you're willing to lose if it goes pear shaped.
I purchased 1kg of gold via Goldpass 8 months ago and it's had excellent returns for me. As the covid stuff ends, the economic implications won't end any time soon. All governments around the world have spent a lot and are now in debt so this will only improve the value of gold. Look back to what happened during the GFC.
Also to make gold investment worthwhile, you need to spend big enough to see big enough gains.
If you can't touch it, you don't own it!
Goldpass certificates are backed by real gold in the Perth Mint vaults, I can turn it to physical with a click of a button and order to pick it up but have no reason to. It's also guaranteed by state government.
Jeez, that is like AUD80,000 or something, you've got balls (or a LOT or money) my friend.
My father once said you'll never lose with gold, sure it dips now and then but long term it's always got an upward trend. I had cash in the bank doing nothing so I said why not. Now it's full paid for my kitchen renovation and see even higher short term gains.
A good vid: https://youtu.be/DdiYkq1GV9c
Someone here said now is not a good time to buy, I say it's always good to buy gold just depends how much profit you want to make and how long you can wait to reach that goal.
Just wait until you find out about Part IV of the Banking Act 1959!
Part IV contains legislative provisions providing the Governor-General with the legal power to sign a proclamation requiring all gold in Australia, except for gold coins or ‘wrought’ gold, to be handed over to the Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA), within a month, in exchange for legal tender.
Game Over
Thats why you can buy bullion gold coins with $200 stamped on them.
… But they could probably confiscate those too and give you $200 of paper
Part IV of the Banking Act 1959 was suspended in 1976. Stop spreading misinformation.
I tried to order a fair sum of gold from Perth Mint just as covid started they were unable to fill the order, they are only making "gold kangaroos" 1 Oz coins til they can catch up with the demand for physical gold. No bullion. Also ABC was only able to supply half ounce bullion with a 1 month wait.
"The thing is gold will always rise and if it does drop it won’t be to much before it rises again". - OP
Lol what a joke. You might as well go find 80k high yield investment vehicle.
Remember that the Gold Price is in US Dollars so any movement of the US Dollar against the Aussie could have a positive or negative affect on your holding. While it has no holding costs it doesn't pay out any income either. Poor choice unless you want some around for TEOTWAWKI. I have an 80's Nugget Proof set and what they cost at the time (obviously in excess of the raw gold price) I would rather hold in BHP shares and re-invested dividends now…
Can you claim TRS on block of gold?
as far as I know purchasing bullion Gold attracts no GST in Australia, so no TRS is available.
I bought a few coins from them a few weeks ago. All items above 1oz were sold out. They have advised they are currently manufacturing bars for COMEX delivery at the rate of 7.5 tonnes a week as there was a shortage of EFP bars available in NY. I'm not sure if they have any capacity for Australian retail atm.
The Australian dollar could be headed lower if ABS unemployment goes higher at the end of this week, so that's something to watch out for if you want to lock in prices at the current exchange rate.
Not even gold stock( i.e PMGOLD) you are interested in?? at least you wouldn't have to worry about securing it and it will track the price of the gold anyway.
I buy bitcoins. Hodl.
XRP is where its at :P
Gold is a good investment
So is property
So is shares
AS LONG AS YOUR INVESTING FOR THE LONG TERM
Not being a smart ass, but what are some example "good" short term investments?
You might be buying at the top of the market, with nowhere to go but down. Or the price might rise and keep rising. Who can tell? That sounds like a big "con" to me.