Red Light Fine (Advice Only)

sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 01:12
Last edited 24/04/2020 - 15:31

I have recently declined a review of a fine which was handed to me for "Proceeding through a red light"

I am asking for advice on whether or not that I should or have a chance to go to court. It bothers me because if it's my first unintentional fines that I got. If I intentionally cause a traffic offense I would just pay for it.

I have also asked for additional photo/video evidence as I only received two images, both of which I have my entire vehicle across the stop line and also my brake lights were on.

First of all, I like to say that I was in no rush that day and was simply driving normally behind a council sweeper through two sets of lights one of which had a redlight camera. The camera went off when I resumed driving after stopping to wait for the council sweeper to clear the large busy intersection at 10km/h in a 50km/h zone. I had the front of my vehicle blocking adjacent traffic so I proceeded when it became possible. When I was on the other side, I realized that there were no vehicles in front of both vehicles and they were just crossing the intersection very slowly. The other vehicle is a cement truck.

The review was declined on the reason of " Leniency is not appropriate for this offense as it is considered serious due to the safety risk to pedestrians and other road users"

https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/129276/78976/600-8-173…
https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/129276/78977/600-8-173…

I paid the fine, wheel was one foot before stop line.

Automotive

closed Comments

  • Hybroid on 23/04/2020 - 01:17
    +71

    Pay the fine. Be more cautious on the road. Move on.

      • Hybroid on 23/04/2020 - 01:20
        +55

        You asked for public advice. You were given it. At no point did I refer to myself. Sorry if it's not what you wanted to hear.

        • Hybroid on 23/04/2020 - 01:28
          +26

          Okay. Spend that money on lawyers and take it to court then. Good luck to you.

            • Hybroid on 23/04/2020 - 01:34
              +35

              @sunnyc:

              You gave no reason why I should go to court.

              Simply because you staunchly don't want to pay the fine. So you'll need to contest it in court. Is there a third option?

              You have minimal to no evidence provided thus far, except stating requested more traffic photos which may or may not arrive. Either case, you'll likely want to get a lawyer to build a credible case for you to maximise chances of success.

              I get you're upset/frustrated. I'm not being malicious. Providing my personal opinion. You absolutely do not need to heed it.

            • Baysew on 23/04/2020 - 10:11
              +3

              @sunnyc: Reasons for going to court -

              Paying a fine is only acceptable if it was clear that I was wrong
              money and a clean driving record.

              If you feel strongly about this go to court, if not just pay the fine. It's your decision.

              • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 11:55
                -4

                @Baysew: I'll wait to see the evidence.

            • DangerNoodle on 23/04/2020 - 19:25
              +4

              @sunnyc: Assuming the road rules are fairly similar between states, here is the rule for a green light in South Australia

              Green Light

              You may proceed through the intersection or turn right or left, if it is safe to do so, unless:
              a sign or signal such as No Right Turn or No Entry prohibits that movement or
              the intersection or the road beyond the intersection is blocked.

              If you noticed that the vehicle in front of you was not going to clear the intersection before the light turned red, or noticed that the road beyond was blocked by vehicles, then you should not have entered the intersection at all. In South Australia, you can get a fine for running a yellow light as well if you should have stopped, and it carries the same demerit and monetary value as running a red light.

              You had no cars behind you, you would have been better off swallowing your pride and reversing behind the line.

            • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2020 - 23:43
              +1

              @sunnyc: You can afford to have a lawyer on retainer but can't afford a dashcam? At the moment, the evidence are against you.

        • Vote for Pedro on 23/04/2020 - 15:48
          +7

          But you were wrong. You are meant to stop on yellow unless unsafe. You did not stop on yellow or red. You broke the law.

        • Donaldhump on 23/04/2020 - 20:55
          +2

          the photo is pretty clear your wrong, that's a massive no ball

      • This Guy on 23/04/2020 - 20:14
        +3

        The intersection starts after the marked foot crossing. Your front left tyre is behind the intersection line it in the first photo, 0.6 Seconds after the light had turned red. It shows both lanes blocked.

        The second photo shows you decided to leave the pedestrian crossing and enter the intersection some time after the first photo was taken, with a still red light and both lanes still blocked.

        I don't go around getting pushed over and cheated by any opportunist who wants to take your money.

        But your OK blocking a pedestrian crossing in a 4x4 at a red light.
        You are OK running a red light in a blocked lane.
        And you seem to have no issue blocking cross traffic who have a green light.

        But by being fined for your actions, you're being cheated by an opportunist…

        • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 20:23
          -5

          None of those things happened.
          1. It's not a pedestrian crossing, I moved so I wasn't blocking that area.
          2. I was past the stop line so I wasn't running a red light.
          3. I was not blocking cross traffic because of the traffic light timing. I passed the section safely.

          If I was to stop in picture one, I would have violated 3. because the cars closest to the curb could not drive past safely hence I would have been blocking cross traffic.

          • robbyjones on 23/04/2020 - 21:31
            +9

            @sunnyc: You need to take a refresher on the road rules, you are wrong and don't seem to want to accept that. What is worrisome is that you are so adamant that you are right means you are a danger to the cars on the road around you. Wake up to yourself before you hurt someone.

          • This Guy on 24/04/2020 - 14:56

            @sunnyc:

            It'S nOt A pEdEsTrIaN cRoSsInG

            It is a pedestrian crossing. There are two faded white lines, only one of which your tyres had crossed. There is a button for it on the left traffic light. There is a ramp on the left. There is a pedestrian crossing opposite it in a similar condition. There is a cyclist and a pedestrian waiting opposite for you to run your red light.

            BuT i CrOsSeD tHe StOp LiNe!!!

            Yes, you crossed the stop line protecting the pedestrian crossing. If you have not started to exit the first pedestrian crossing 0.6 seconds after your light has turned red, how could you be in the intersection 0.6 seconds earlier? I see brake lights, not reverse lights.

            I wAs NoT bLoKiNg TrAfFiC bEcAuSe Of LiGhT tImInG!!!

            The ALL-RED light period for a traffic light like that should be 1 second. (Page 23 - do the maths) The intersection would need to be over 17 meters long to have an ALL-RED interval of more than 1 second.

            The second photo shows you in the intersection 1.6 seconds into your red light.

            You were blocking a green light in the second photo.

            Bonus:

            BuT tHaT tRaFfIc LiGhT oN tHe RiGhT iS rEd!!!!

            That could be a protective red for the far cross walk you have still not entered (page 18, 19). They should have a green (probably why that cyclist has moved forward)

      • Donaldhump on 23/04/2020 - 20:54
        +2

        You ran a red light, pay the fine, or go to court and pay more

    • crentist on 23/04/2020 - 03:29
      +3

      This is crap advice. If the two photos show the car completely within the intersection, then the red light rule doesn't apply. Another might, but no other ticket was given.

      Would you pay a fine for something you didn't do, and that even the evidence shows didn't occur?

      • ThithLord on 23/04/2020 - 09:25
        +7

        The camera went off when I resumed driving after stopping to wait for the council sweeper to clear the large busy intersection at 10km/h in a 50km/h zone. I had the front of my vehicle blocking adjacent traffic so I proceeded when it became possible.

        Not sure how you interpret that as within the intersection. OP was over the line, possibly blocking traffic - and then continued through the intersection. That's my understanding of it.

        • Nebargains on 23/04/2020 - 16:38
          +4

          My interpretation of the post and the comment you are replying to is that OP stopped his car entirely over the line, perhaps wasn't expecting that vehicle to stop, don't know, then the light went off when he started driving again.

          In that instance he was already past the red light and a the lines etc, so got a fine for going through a red light, despite already being ahead of the light before it went red. Anyway that was my interpretation of what they were saying.

          • ThithLord on 24/04/2020 - 08:00

            @Nebargains: OP has edited the OP with photo evidence - what do you make of those?

            • Ahbal on 24/04/2020 - 08:17

              @ThithLord: well its hard to say. If he went past the lights with most of his vehicle when they were green, then they went yellow/red while he was waiting for the truck to clear, then he should be getting a different fine. Not the "run the red light" fine as that is not what he did.

              to be clear, yes he should still get a fine. But a different one.

              • Piranha2004 on 24/04/2020 - 09:14

                @Ahbal: The first photo shows 4 secs since yellow and 0.6 secs since red. The OP had plenty of time to decide whether to go through or not. Clear case of running red.

              • macdaddyjordan on 24/04/2020 - 10:08

                @Ahbal: nope the "intersection" is not where the lights begin, the intersection is after the pedestrian lights, which is that big square in the middle where there are no white lines

                pretty much OP's second photo his car is considered inside the intersection, first photo is of him entering the intersection

                thats why he has been issued a fine

      • Drakesy on 24/04/2020 - 10:08
        +1

        Unfortunately the law is (at least in wa) you cant enter an intersection without the exit being clear, similarly with a roundabout. Yes there are times when it shouldn't be enforced but unfortunately for the OP they should stump up and pay the fine.

        Oh and red light cameras are ridiculous in low speed environments due to this exact case.

  • jonnys1n on 23/04/2020 - 01:17
    +2

    probably got no chance unless you got a dashcam to prove you were stuck behind a government vehicle doing way under the speed limit

    • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 01:25

      I am hoping to get more photo evidence, the picture shows the sweeper travelling 1m in 1 second.

      • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 01:27

        It was strange because I have no evidence of before the red light or as the red light was turned on. The only evidence was 0.7 seconds after the red light has gone.

        • diazepam on 23/04/2020 - 03:20
          +6

          Generally they're tripped by induction loops underneath the surface. They only take a photo when you're either speeding (as calculated between two loops) or when it's red and you trip either loop so… they're usually quite accurate. If it goes red the best advice I give to everyone is don't move who cares if you're in the intersection. It's either you're annoying people or you get a fine. I know which I'd choose. If there's a cop then perhaps some common sense would prevail where you should get out of people's way but these induction loops know no lieniency (well apart from 0.5 of a second or whatever it is these days). Oh and by the way (not going to patronise you further for this) but you shouldn't enter the intersection at all if it's blocked. I've been fined for that and learnt my lesson (still better than a red light).

          Anyway there's no possibility of them seeing what happened before you tripped the induction loop (they aren't recorded). I'm faling to picture the entire situation but it might end up being a only "your word for it" situation in which case you might end up with a clean record but may have to pay court fees (happened to me previously)… and stupidly cost me more than the fine.

    • apsilon on 23/04/2020 - 06:14
      +42

      That's irrelevant because you're not supposed to enter an intersection unless it's clear. OP entered despite being blocked by a vehicle.

      • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 12:54
        -6

        That's not what my fine is for.

        • jjjaar on 23/04/2020 - 13:14
          +27

          But by ignoring that law, you subsequently broke another law, which is what your fine is for.

          • wozz on 24/04/2020 - 10:50
            +1

            @jjjaar: yeah I agree.. Shouldn't enter intersection if you can't clear it.
            If you know it's a street sweeper than you probably know they're going slow so shouldnt risk it, but even if it wasn't you still need to keep intersections clear.

            I know this can happen inadvertently sometimes if cars suddenly brake halfway into an intersection or just after - but it shouldn't happen if everyone followed the 3 second+ rule

            Bad luck, I wouldn't risk court and getting something worse unless you're clearly not guilty. Thankfully i'm not a lawyer or anything so my assumptions are useless :D

  • spackbace on 23/04/2020 - 01:30
    +70

    You're in the intersection when the opposite side wasn't clear for you. It's not like a giant street sweeper just appears out of nowhere.

    What is there to appeal? You're in the intersection after it went red. 50kph zone, plenty of time to see and judge the road ahead.

    And don't play the victim card, I don't wanna hear it and don't care. Learn to read the road ahead better and this would've been a non-issue.

      • spackbace on 23/04/2020 - 01:35
        +38

        Well, you predicted wrong…

        Again, learn to read the road better and this would've been a non-issue. Slow moving car in the intersection, so you take the appropriate caution.

        You were stuck in the intersection when it went green to red. In that space of time you realised you fked up, and your car was almost blocking traffic. There's no leniancy for that. Light red, you in intersection, photographic proof = guilty.

        • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 01:39
          -1

          So that's what I did, waited at the base of the intersection which was past the stop sign of the traffic lights until it was clear and safe for me to go and I ended up getting fined.

          • spackbace on 23/04/2020 - 01:40
            +9

            @sunnyc:

            which was past the stop sign of the traffic lights

            Hence, in the intersection.

            Do you not realise how you're not proving innocence here?

            https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/532768/revisions#1114339vs…

            Wow talk about irrelevant…

            • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 01:43

              @spackbace: So I had to get out of the intersection otherwise I'd be blocking the intersection. Unless there was traffic on the other side of the intersection, I would've waited. There was no one on the road apart from 2 trucks and me. That's why I was surprised that both vehicles were not driving at appropriate speeds.

              • spackbace on 23/04/2020 - 01:46
                +10

                @sunnyc: But they weren't, and they're allowed to be. Generally speaking, street sweepers etc have big caution signs on the back advising this.

                You still haven't proven innocence. You can spout off as many excuses as they want but it sounds like you haven't actually put any thought into what you did, and the crime they attached to it.

                You know, the one that says don't enter an intersection unless it's clear etc. Yeah that one. Go read up on your fine and tell me what doesn't apply to you.

          • Hybroid on 23/04/2020 - 01:45
            +6

            @sunnyc: That sounds like you proceeded past traffic lights into an intersection when the road ahead was not already clear to do so. That's 100% an offence pretty much everywhere.

              • Hybroid on 23/04/2020 - 02:01
                +9

                @sunnyc: I hope for your sake the judge agrees with you. Spoiler: They won't.

                I'll leave you be now as I don't think you're getting it. Good luck.

                • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 02:04
                  -1

                  @Hybroid: Thanks anyway, I'll reconsider and reevaluate regardless.

          • mba on 23/04/2020 - 19:51

            @sunnyc: I say argue it in court, since you said you stopped on the crossing after the stop sign, and ended up in the intersection, probably work out cheaper in the fine department.

            -Stop on/near pedestrian crossing* : $344 / 2 Demerits

            -Stop within 20m of intersection (traffic lights)* : $344 / 2 Demerits

            -Red light camera fine: $457 / 3 Demerits

            • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 19:56
              +1

              @mba: Only the last one is applicable.

            • bmerigan on 23/04/2020 - 22:57
              -2

              @mba: What is the point of this list of fines? I don't understand.
              Everyone stops at intersections. He wasn't parked there.

    • crentist on 23/04/2020 - 03:09
      +17

      You're in the intersection when the opposite side wasn't clear for you.
      What is there to appeal? You're in the intersection after it went red.

      Yea that's not what they got the ticket for.

      59 Proceeding through a red traffic light
      (1) If traffic lights at an intersection or marked foot crossing are showing a red traffic light, a driver must not enter the intersection or marked foot crossing.

      Emphasis mine. If OP was already in the intersection when the light was green, then they didn't enter on a red light and should not have got that ticket. Being stuck in the intersection afterwards is irrelevant.

      To make that point even clearer, NSW RMS states elsewhere that "Traffic already in the intersection or entering on a yellow (amber) light will not activate the red light camera."

      And don't play the victim card, I don't wanna hear it and don't care.

      You're completely wrong about the rule they "broke", but onya for not caring and putting the boot in anyway. 💪.

      I think they're trying to play the "not all situations are black and white" and "accusation doesn't mean guilt" cards.
      That seems to be what's got a stick up your bum.

      • ThithLord on 23/04/2020 - 09:28
        +3

        "Traffic already in the intersection or entering on a yellow (amber) light will not activate the red light camera."

        But what triggered the camera, then?

        From the OP it sounds like OP had driven over the line, but not completely, and stopped with half their vehicle over the line and the other behind it:

        The camera went off when I resumed driving after stopping to wait for the council sweeper to clear the large busy intersection at 10km/h in a 50km/h zone. I had the front of my vehicle blocking adjacent traffic so I proceeded when it became possible.

        • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 12:06

          I'll have to see the additional photo evidence, I wouldn't be sure if my rear wheels were over the line as I couldn't see them.

          • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2020 - 23:47

            @sunnyc: You keep saying that. Have they confirmed that more photos were taken?

            • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 23:49

              @[Deactivated]: Well I called up service nsw a month ago and they said they keep footage and you would have to request it. I followed their instructions but forgot to request the images during review. Now I've requested images after the review.

  • Mechz on 23/04/2020 - 02:15
    +7

    So you admit to stopping in, then blocking an intersection when at some point the light turns red on you, hence the fine. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

    • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 02:22
      -3

      the fine is to proceeding through red traffic light which is not what I did. Anyways I don't think I was clear above, maybe I'll consult a specialist with the evidence. Not trying to be stubborn here but I would have done the exact same thing again. Laws aren't always representative of how people drive in real life.

      • blehgg on 23/04/2020 - 17:02
        +1

        i demand you give me the right fine?

    • crentist on 23/04/2020 - 03:12
      +5

      It is clear cut actually. Being completely inside an intersection before the light turns red is not the same as "proceeding through a red light".

      • bobbified on 23/04/2020 - 10:24
        +2

        It is clear cut actually.

        It would be clear cut IF what you describe actually happened. In this case, OP has triggered the red light camera, therefore, he couldn't have been completely inside the intersection before the light turned red.

        • crentist on 23/04/2020 - 12:16

          OP has triggered the red light camera, therefore, he couldn't have been completely inside the intersection

          This is a bit of a circular logic argument. Either OP made a mistake or the cameras did, but neither are infallible.

          We don't know how the sensors are triggered, and having worked in precision measurement and calibration, no measurement system is ever considered 100% accurate. In this case we consider it driving through a red light based on crossing those white lines, but the lines don't have sensors embedded inside the paint, nor is there a linesman standing there watching every car.
          Which means that whatever system is in place measures something else that approximates line-crossing.

          If OP is telling the story accurately, then they might have triggered the actual thing that approximates the bad thing.

          eg There is usually a sensor inside the intersection, under the road. OP might have been sitting on that for too long by going so slow and activated it when they moved off it. That sensor might not detect speed and direction because in normal driving conditions it will be triggered by someone crossing the lines when the light is red.

          • bobbified on 23/04/2020 - 12:22

            @crentist:

            We don't know how the sensors are triggered,

            We do know where the sensors are and how they work. It's an induction loop at the last white line as you enter the intersection. It detects the lump of metal (the car) going over it.

            It would help everyone if OP shared the pictures of his vehicle. My bet is that his vehicle wasn't completely across line when the lights turned red and he moved his vehicle after that, triggering the camera.

            • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 12:55

              @bobbified: Wouldn't it be the first white line that you pass? Normally I stop before the first white lie.

              • bobbified on 23/04/2020 - 12:59

                @sunnyc: I've always noticed the sensorb on the last white line (counting from approach being the "first").

                The first picture is to show that you entered the intersection after the light has turned red and the second picture to show that you were "moving" through the intersection.

                • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 13:01

                  @bobbified: Yes so would you say that I have proceeded through the red light? I passed the full white line.

                  • bobbified on 23/04/2020 - 13:11

                    @sunnyc: Something has triggered the camera!

                    If you upload the pictures, we'll be able to tell.

                    • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 13:12

                      @bobbified: I have uploaded the pictures

                      • bobbified on 23/04/2020 - 13:18
                        +2

                        @sunnyc: The first picture shows you haven't crossed the last line where the trigger is. So yes, the ticket is issued correctly.

              • Euphemistic on 23/04/2020 - 16:59
                +4

                @sunnyc:

                Normally I stop before the first white lie.

                The typo that describes it all?

            • crentist on 23/04/2020 - 13:37
              -2

              @bobbified:

              We do know where the sensors are and how they work.

              I meant the particular details of what what type of sensors are used and the logic implemented.
              We have the basic idea how they work, and could probably find out much more with some effort. But there's a lot we don't know about them too.

              eg Whether it the loop detects a car going over it, as you say, or if it would also detect a car sitting on top of it and not moving, and what type of signal that sends. Not all induction sensors are the same. eg RS Components has almost 2000 Inductive Proximity Sensors with nearly 30 different types of output.

              And then what it would do with that information, ie how the software triggers the camera based on the output of the loop. There are many ways this could be implemented. It could be triggered by a certain value (ON), or any change in value (ON-OFF), or a pattern of values (OFF-ON-OFF), the timing of these changes etc.

              It's easy to say a sensor detects something, but the logic to do this has to be designed and then built. It's the hardware and software that determine how it all actually works, and there are a crapload of ways these can work.
              In most cases they absolutely work well enough. But unless you've had a good look at the hardware selection and software design for the cameras that have been installed, it's difficult to say that they couldn't make a mistake in an atypical situation.

              edit after seeing the photos: Wow that's cutting it close. Whatever those sensors are did a good job.
              Wasn't having a go btw, just worked enough on the other side of hardware and software dev to see easy it can be for things not to work.

              • Euphemistic on 23/04/2020 - 17:03
                +1

                @crentist: After all that, the sensor triggers the camera to take a photo which is then reviewed by a human. It doesn’t really matter how tesensor works. Physics indicates the car was moving in the first photo because the acceleration capabilities of a vehicle can be guesstimated. I.e. cars don’t instantly transition between two locations not stop and start instantly.

          • mba on 23/04/2020 - 20:07
            +1

            @crentist: OP was on the sensors, see the intersection as he mention he waited after the stop sign, putting his car over the induction loops, don't know if the camera would have flashed if he'd just stay where he was, and not cross.

            https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/205220/78987/intersect…

  • Meho2026 on 23/04/2020 - 02:26
    +2

    I thought the red light cameras were only triggered when you crossed the stop sign on red.
    It’s not triggered by crossing on amber so you must’ve crossed the stop line on red.
    https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/speeding/speedcamera…
    Maybe your brain created a false memory of what actually happened

    • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 02:28

      Perhaps you are right, I thought it triggered when you move after a red light. Until I get more photo evidence, I can't be certain.

      • crentist on 23/04/2020 - 03:17

        Yea make extra sure of this. The photos should show some part of the car crossing if you weren't in?

        Also look into whether the appeal was declined automatically simply because they don't allow appeals for red lights. It might not indicate anything at all about your case.

        • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 03:54

          I found it surprising I got the email at 12am.

          • kolorijo on 23/04/2020 - 08:02

            @sunnyc: maybe it was a system automated email triggered by the change of day (midnight)

      • Brouw3r on 23/04/2020 - 17:39

        So you can just park in the middle of an intersection and wait for the light to go green?

      • mba on 23/04/2020 - 20:09

        Your vehicle was sitting on the sensors, see the intersection.

  • ekleo on 23/04/2020 - 02:36
    +4

    I'm not sure which state you're in however in Victoria the VicRoads rules state that at an intersection with traffic lights drivers may proceed through a green light if the intersection is not blocked and when there is sufficient room on the other side of the intersection for your vehicle.
    https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-r…

    • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 02:47

      That's great information thanks, even though I'm in nsw, I would have to find the same information. I would first need to wait to see if I indeed crossed when it was green rather than red.

      • diazepam on 23/04/2020 - 03:23
        +10

        As per my reply above - doesn't matter if green or red. You're not supposed to enter if it's blocked. I know everyone does it but unfortunately that's the road rules.

        I think the likely scenario you're going to get if you explained it at court is that it gets changed from a "enter intersection during red" to "enter intersection when blocked" or something to that effect. Maybe you might get lucky and get it waived. In either situation court fees still apply because you'd need to admit guilt. Good luck with it all!

        • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 03:54

          good advice, I'll take it into consideration.

          • kolorijo on 23/04/2020 - 08:04

            @sunnyc: consider the money and time wasted fighting this too, may not be worth it.

            • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 12:08

              @kolorijo: Well it'd be an additional $85 on top of $457.

          • pegaxs on 23/04/2020 - 11:35
            +2

            @sunnyc: NSW Road Rules Legislation says;

            Part 11, Division 1, Rule 128

            128 Entering blocked intersections

            • A driver must not enter an intersection if the driver cannot drive through the intersection because the intersection, or a road beyond the intersection, is blocked.
            • grasstown on 23/04/2020 - 18:00

              @pegaxs: Wouldn't that only apply if the intersection was blocked? The sweepers were moving and op could drive through

            • No ONE on 23/04/2020 - 18:51

              @pegaxs: The fine was issued for proceeding through the red light not blocking the intersection. op is arguing based on technicallity not based on breaking other road rule.

              • pegaxs on 23/04/2020 - 19:35
                +1

                @No ONE: It was in reference to the comment in this part of the thread (ie: what ekleo was saying and OP asked about what that was in NSW) not to what OP did…

                even though I'm in nsw, I would have to find the same information

                The rule I posted was about entering a blocked intersection, not the action of blocking it. I just found the information for them and posted it.

                @grasstown: OP broke road rule 128 AND 57 and this lead to OP breaking road rule 56, this is what OP was subsequently sent an infringement notice for. The sweeper blocked the intersection and OP would not have been able to get through the intersection, as evidenced by the fact OP received an infringement notice.

  • bobbified on 23/04/2020 - 08:03
    +1

    I have also asked for additional photo/video evidence as I only received two images, both of which I have my entire vehicle across the stop line and also my brake lights were on.

    Do you mind showing us the pictures? If your entire vehicle was across the stop line in both pictures, then you might have a case. The red light camera works only when a vehicle crosses the line after the light is red.

    If you had already completely crossed the lines when the light was green or amber and were just finishing crossing the rest of the intersection, then your vehicle would not have triggered the camera.

    • ThithLord on 23/04/2020 - 09:31
      +3

      Really strange that OP hasn't provided the photos so we can have a better idea of the situation … almost like they want to garner support to confirm their own suspicions

      • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 12:09

        I can provide you the evidence, I just have another incriminating evidence, my right brake light was broken but now fixed. How do I submit photos?

  • djones145 on 23/04/2020 - 08:15
    +2

    question (bit random) where were u going and how far were u from home and how recent was it

    you don't want to go to court, get the charges dismissed
    then the cops fine you for driving too far from your house as you were not going for something essential lol

    • sunnyc on 23/04/2020 - 12:10

      I was 0.5km from my home, and only to bunnings 1.5km away which was my third trip that day. This was in February

  • rover on 23/04/2020 - 08:35
    +11

    No MSPaint, no advice

  • DashCam AKA Rolts on 23/04/2020 - 09:27
    +2

    "Forgot to mention, I have an MC license driving a 4WD on that day." MC = motorcycle?
    Followup question: Were you driving a vehicle permitted under your your license category?

    • pegaxs on 23/04/2020 - 11:19
      +2

      MC = Multi-Combination

      Means he is a card carrying member of the wife beater singlet, skin tight stubbies wearing, badly faded tattoo, sunburnt/tanned right arm trucking fraternity. They usually own big arse, psuedo-big rigs as their out of the truck vehicle, so they can continue their bullying of car drivers when not in their 80tonne B-Double Kenworth.

      Probably shitting pants, because some big employers will not employ or will stand down anyone who has any demerit points on their license. Especially MC drivers.

      Source: I'm a part time HC driver (Heavy Combination). Have seen plenty of guys get knocked back on jobs because they have demerit points on their license.

      (For the record, R = Motorcycle)

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