Who Is Going to Pay for All This?

Trying2SaveABuck on 07/04/2020 - 22:16
Last edited 07/04/2020 - 23:08

Who is going to pay for all this sh!t?

With sweeping policies regarding government spending aimed at helping businesses and unemployed during COVID19

The government is having over 700m to airlines (probably more in the end if virgin gets cash too)

130billion in their job seeker program

Millions more in beefed up welfare payments

On top of that extra funding is urgently needed to our healthcare system incase this crisis worsens

Over 1-2million jobs will be lost and unemployment is tipped it hit around 10%

Pretty much every industry bleeding money it asking for a hand out

Keep in mind we just had horrible bushfires….

When this is all said and done who is going to pay for this?

I agree with most of what the government is trying to do because desperate times call for desperate measures though i cant help but feel that we will be incredibility screwed for generations to come…eventually the dust will settle and who will fit the tab because we will essentially be in the worst financial position Australia has been in most of our lifetimes…. And unlike the GFC we aren’t in a mining boom to help us out…

Update

ill add this should Australia stop all international aid, refugee re-settlement programs and essentially humanitarianism for at least the next 5 years?

Financial

Comments

                  • kahn on 08/04/2020 - 11:35
                    +5

                    @Krankite:

                    no longer believes private companies in China are free of Communist Party control

                    Two key words there "believe" and "control". Yes, there is heavy government influence/control, but simply stating there are no private assets is a bit of a stretch to put it kindly.

                    • yannyrjl on 10/04/2020 - 21:16
                      -1

                      @kahn: however, the government have the right to take any of your private business / property at any time. No regard for their constitution unfortunately as demonstrated by Xi now a dictator for life

                  • mychips on 08/04/2020 - 16:46
                    +11

                    @Krankite: You can't honestly believe that there is no such thing as private enterprise in China.

                    There are plenty of mum and pop businesses in China, to believe that this does not exist is bordering on delusion.

                    Western propaganda at its finest.

            • yannyrjl on 10/04/2020 - 21:15

              @kahn: and yet in China people don't own their houses, they have "usage rights" for a certain number of years

          • Mad Max on 07/04/2020 - 22:55
            +6

            @Trying2SaveABuck:

            honestly what could they do about it? 

            Invade?
            Just a little bit more than a picnic in the park for the chinese army…
            Or buy what they don't already own and move in…

            • Trying2SaveABuck on 07/04/2020 - 22:56
              -6

              @Mad Max: the whole planet? the whole world will probably do the same thing esp if the US stand up to them which they will the truth is all of Asia f**ken hates china this is the icing on the cake…

              • Mad Max on 07/04/2020 - 23:05
                +1

                @Trying2SaveABuck: Well Australia may just be the entree…

              • yannyrjl on 10/04/2020 - 21:31
                -1

                @Trying2SaveABuck: why the neg, Japan hates China especially with recent conflicts of Senkaku, South Korea hates China due to the Korean war, hell even North Korea hates China as they see China as traitors to the cause.

            • bronan on 07/04/2020 - 23:04
              +2

              @Mad Max: Further trade sanctions. Or strong-arming companies like they did with Huawei.

              • Mad Max on 07/04/2020 - 23:10
                +10

                @bronan: Australia strong-arming China?
                Like in the David and Goliath biblical legend? 🤣

                • bronan on 07/04/2020 - 23:12

                  @Mad Max: I was referring to if the US wanted to weigh in. :p

                  Australia would never turn on China.

                  • Mad Max on 07/04/2020 - 23:15
                    +2

                    @bronan: Oh yes. If Trump goes for it Australia will back him up…until his nose bleeds…

                    • bronan on 07/04/2020 - 23:19
                      +4

                      @Mad Max: I personally believe we would try our damnedest to sit on the fence and stay out of it if push ever came to shove. We'd lost either way.

                      • Mad Max on 07/04/2020 - 23:20
                        +5

                        @bronan: I am getting my Mad Max V8 Interceptor ready just in case 🦼

                  • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2020 - 07:37
                    +3

                    @bronan: Australia wouldn't turn on any lucrative trading partner if possible but China may no longer be that partner.

                    Australia has a far longer alliance with the UK and the US than with China, one that wasn't built solely on finances.

          • Baghern on 08/04/2020 - 01:00
            +1

            @Trying2SaveABuck: Surely this is a troll post…

            good on ya betoota…

            dey terk er jerb….

          • Chang1992 on 08/04/2020 - 11:15
            -2

            @Trying2SaveABuck: One virus from China hits the world and the whole world turns against China. When the Swine Flu, H1N1, came out of america no one made a massive deal out of it.

            • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2020 - 20:04
              +3

              @Chang1992: Because instead of admitting that they had a problem, they hid it and allowed it to reach a ridiculous spread. They only admitted to a problem when it was readily apparent and even then, they lied and are continuing to lie about the figures.

              Whilst the problem has escaped local containment in China, they set up companies abroad to buy PPE to be sent back to China, to the detriment of everyone else who would be dealing with the mess China created and disseminated.

              In a time when the world was trying to minimize damage, China continues to obfuscate actual figures and decided to push their propaganda by sending out PPE, the very items they deprived others of, and they sent out faulty ones further facilitating the spread.

              … and you're surprised no one is giving the Chinese government a pat on the back?

              No one is hating on the Chinese as an ethnicity (at least I am not) but at some point the Chinese have to look at their government and political system, and call it for what it is, shit.

              • zine21 on 09/04/2020 - 13:32
                +5

                @[Deactivated]: We are not in this mess purely because of mistakes made by China, its so easy to just point a finger and expect someone else to be responsible for it. But that would just be ignorant of the cascade of events that did happen to produce the results. Look at Korea, Singapore, HK, Taiwan etc - they were in the same boat but results speak for themselves.

                countries that delayed taking any real actions dug their own graves by thinking they were immune to the problem. They didn't take it serious enough and they felt it was someone elses problem - someone else would fix it for them. Even now America still fails to take the threat seriously but is talking about sueing China ?
                ow please. This isnt even about the virus or the current states

                • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2020 - 13:37

                  @zine21: The commonality between those countries are significant. They are all oriental countries with recent conflicts with China or with a large population of Chinese diaspora.

                  Perhaps we can learn from them - to respond to Chinese claims with extreme caution.

                  Or we can learn nothing and proceed to defend China.

                  • zine21 on 09/04/2020 - 14:04
                    +4

                    @[Deactivated]: America too was in a big and pretty public (almost comical) conflict with China before this.. yet here they are.

                    These countries had prep due to SARS- they knew how to take actions as a population and they took the threat seriously. I hope we can learn from this and the past and take faster actions so that we may contain things that may be much more serious.

                    I'm also not defending anyone here- the fault simply can not be passed on to just one source when they were so many mistakes made collectively

                    • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2020 - 14:08

                      @zine21:

                      America too was in a big and pretty public (almost comical) conflict with China before this.. yet here they are.

                      You're comparing Trump's brand of brash shit talking to Taiwan's decades of military oppression, HK's loss of autonomy, S.Korea's neighbour's primary sponsors…

                      Fair enough to comment that the European governments made mistakes but the mistakes are built on false information. The big picture is the false information.

                      • zine21 on 09/04/2020 - 14:42
                        +2

                        @[Deactivated]: Conflict is conflict - I mean you're using the lack of trust as a reason for these countries success in handling the virus - if we followed that logic - America should also have the same distrust and is better equipped to boot- theoretically should have been at a better position if what you said had any validity (even if it wasn't as well as the other countries it should have been doing well - though it is further away so it also had that as an advantage but lets ignore that)- instead, they're at the very bottom

                        Mistakes were not purely built on false information - that boat sailed months ago ( I mean we're looking at probably a handful of cases in November that were not reported properly - but at the time they didn't know what they were dealing with and doubt it would have made a difference). Im also not actually blaming just the governments - individuals and the population at large were responsible for the spread.

                        Look at Korea - it did hit them pretty hard at the start before they actually knew what was going on - but they recovered extremely well. Why? because of statistics ? come on. people themselves were actually doing their part and they did heavy testing and contact tracing.

                        in countries like Italy - they had actually sick individuals that knew they were positive - roaming the city/shops etc without care. They treated the lockdowns/restrictions as a time to have parties and socialise.

                        and now that the damage is visible in large red letters- that can't be ignored everyone is trying to find someone to blame for their own shortcomings and mistakes

              • petry on 09/04/2020 - 14:47

                @[Deactivated]: garbage

          • this is us on 08/04/2020 - 14:02
            +3

            @Trying2SaveABuck: If people keep buying stuff made in China, as most of us do, companies won't do anything about China… I'd like to see that happening but I can't see that happening anytime soon… I hope other countries can see the problem with depending on Chinese manufactures for everything, and do something about that. People can start by boycotting "made in China" stuff but that includes everything from food and toilet paper to iPhones. Everyone likes to complain but no one has the balls - or the money - to afford industries in other countries so people turn a blind eye to poor work conditions and very cheap workforce who often lives in conditions similar to slavery. Moreover, not sure if the alternative (India, Thailand, Philipines…) would be different in terms of the cheap workforce and living conditions.

          • mychips on 08/04/2020 - 14:18
            +11

            @Trying2SaveABuck: I suppose the world should've sued the US after 2009 for their negligence leading to the GFC using your brilliant logic.

            FYI, China doesn't' just build things cheap due to cheap labour but rather economies of scale throughout the entire supply chain. These savings cannot be easily replicated in other countries as they take decades to develop.

            Everything is virtually cheaper, more efficient and of a higher quality - getting labour, machinery, transportation, logistics, parts, retooling, etc. When the geniuses in the USA were talking about making iPhones in the US, Tim Cook virtually shut that conversation down by saying that there weren't even a thousand capable technicians in the entire US, compared to hundreds of thousands of them within China.

            • monkeyfood on 09/04/2020 - 22:16

              @mychips: there is no technicians in china they have a million minimum wage workers screwing in speakers and screens, the brains and designers are in usa

              • mychips on 09/04/2020 - 22:49
                +2

                @monkeyfood:

                there is no technicians in china they have a million minimum wage workers screwing in speakers and screens, the brains and designers are in usa

                Direct quote from Tim Cook: "The products we do require really advanced tooling, and the precision that you have to have, the tooling and working with the materials that we do are state of the art. And the tooling skill is very deep [China]. In the US you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I'm not sure we could fill the room. In China you could fill multiple football fields."

                https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-…

                I suppose you know more about manufacturing in China than Tim Cook does? Surely you're not arrogant enough to think that.

          • sarahlump on 08/04/2020 - 18:14
            +5

            @Trying2SaveABuck: What did china do again? provide us a massive cheap labor force? prop up our mineral economy? Our country knew this was a thing, EVERY country knew this was a thing and instead of responding to the threat, instead of providing aid and help, ignored it. "its a Chinese virus" We have ourselves to blame. Humanity is a fickle species.

          • Barbequemilk on 09/04/2020 - 02:53
            +2

            @Trying2SaveABuck: Stop trading, LOL.
            Who going to buy our beef? Will India buy our beef? Who going to buy our lobster? Thailand?
            Do India have any infrastructure?
            Do you want to lose 1.5billion consumers market?

            Think before you talk.

            What is main reason you go after china? This virus it was from January, 3 month ago, only trump ignorance that said this virus will went away.

            Do you know how many people died from swine flu in Australia? In the world's?

            Do you know that The H1N1 Swine Flu Pandemic? Manipulating the Data to Justify a Worldwide Public Health Emergency.

          • shamid202 on 09/04/2020 - 10:46

            @Trying2SaveABuck: Australia is still afraid to call it chinese virus due to pc or the money power china has. You dream they go after china. I doubt we have the courage to do so.
            Why do i call it chinese virus?
            German measles
            Spanish flu
            Japanese Encephalitis
            Middle East Respiratory Syndrome
            Ebola (river in Congo)
            Nipah virus (river/village in Malaysia)
            Marburg disease (city in Germany)
            Zika fever (forest in Uganda)
            West Nile virus
            Guinea worm
            Lyme disease
            All named after places where it originated.

            • petry on 09/04/2020 - 14:48
              -1

              @shamid202: originated from or released?

            • mychips on 09/04/2020 - 22:58
              +1

              @shamid202: Naming a disease after a place is of ancient times, recent diseases do not use this. Using naming conventions set out by the WHO makes much more sense. If you want to politicise Covid19, by all means. Stupid suggestions such as a name change out of all things won't do the world any good.

              People like you are the reason Republicans in the US use the term "Obamacare" instead of the "Affordable Care Act" - they're virtually the same thing but naming it "Obamacare" really appealed to racists within the US. At the end of the day, it served no real benefit but ultimately ramped the stupid people within their population.

              The reality is that China has, and is doing everything in its power to sort this mess out. USA, on the other hand, isn't and won't help us if times get tough. If we're going to get through this mess, we will need China and the PPE gear it produces (50% of the world's supply) as the rest of the world is too busy holding onto its own supply of PPE. Perhaps we shouldn't antagonise China for a non-existent naming convention which serves no benefit to anyone.

        • trapper on 08/04/2020 - 10:59

          Australia is just about a fully owned subsidiary of China…

          Maybe not after we bill them for this!

          • Mad Max on 08/04/2020 - 16:46

            @trapper: Billing them is easy.
            Difficult part is making them pay.
            Civil and Administrative Tribunal may work for car accidents claims, but it will not cut it for this one…

            • trapper on 08/04/2020 - 19:21

              @Mad Max: China's assets aren't all in China, they can go after them anywhere.

            • chriise on 09/04/2020 - 00:48
              +1

              @Mad Max: Nah mate, we got bikies.

      • cameldownunder on 08/04/2020 - 11:17

        I think the whole world should sue China, afterall it's not the first time a Virus has escaped the Chinese Communist Regime.

        • kahn on 08/04/2020 - 11:22
          +1

          What law did they break and under whose jurisdiction will the case proceed? Edit: oops, abb already stated this below.

        • mychips on 08/04/2020 - 14:20
          +15

          Like the world even cared, every nation knew about it for 1-3 months before even bothering to act. Trump was downplaying it for 3 months which put them in the position that they're in now.

          • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2020 - 20:13

            @mychips: They knew about a virus that supposedly doesn't spread easily, doesn't spread fast and barely killed anyone.

            No one in their right mind would have taken the Chinese published figures and thought pandemic.

            • mychips on 08/04/2020 - 22:09
              +12

              @[Deactivated]: Trump has been downplaying it for 3 months even up until last week. Virtually anyone who wasn't living under a rock knew the severity of this when it hit Italy in Feb yet most nations didn't act and only starting putting up measures in Mid March.

              Let's not forget, this is a novel virus. The Chinese wouldn't have had any substantial data as it was occurring in real time December 2019.

              No-one in their right mind would've thought pandemic when there were just a few patients with signs of pneumonia. Why expect China to do the same?

              • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2020 - 22:18

                @mychips:

                Why expect China to do the same?

                No one did. They just expect real stats so they can decide for themselves.

                • mychips on 08/04/2020 - 23:07
                  +11

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  They just expect real stats so they can decide for themselves.

                  I don't know how to put it in simple terms but countries have known about this disease since the 31st of Dec 19 when China first reported it to WHO.

                  http://who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/e…

                  As winter in China is during the months of Dec to Feb, it was quite easy to mistake the early cases of pneumonia as it was during the height of regular flu season there.

                  Its quite easy to point the finger to China but the boat has long sailed, it clearly isn't January anymore and countries have known about this disease for 3+ months. How countries react is on them and not China.

                  People like you are giving leaders like Trump an extremely easy way out of taking any responsibility for the lives of their own citizens.

                  • Barbequemilk on 09/04/2020 - 03:12
                    +2

                    @mychips: Well said!!!!
                    Watch Nathan Rich youtuber For the best actual coronavirus timeline information compare to swine flu

                    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kO5EXjFKE7U

                  • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2020 - 13:33

                    @mychips:

                    countries have known about this disease since the 31st of Dec 19 when China first reported it to WHO

                    Yet the models of spread of the disease and very reliable sources have shown evidence China knew about the disease since mid November.

                    Moreover, knowing about a virus doesn't mean that we have to go closing borders. Knowing the impact, however, shapes our perspective and our actions. The impact was downplayed and is still being downplayed in China.

                    • mychips on 09/04/2020 - 23:07
                      +4

                      @[Deactivated]: Again, they were dealing with a novel virus. If you do not understand the term "novel", perhaps you should learn a bit more about it. It means new, and a virus that is new has no existing data. There is no way of knowing the R0 without doing research, and since the virus shared similarities to the common cold and flu during flu season in China, it is extremely probable that they just weren't sure, despite a doctor saying that he thought it could be SARS.

                      This virus has a long incubation period and has flu-like symptoms, there is no way they could've known from 1 patient or even several patients during flu season. Using logic, it would take numerous patients showing severe cases of pneumonia before they realised which makes the timeline all the more reasonable.

                      If you think a Western country would've performed differently, you have plenty of case studies now. Europe, USA have all struggled to contain it or manage it due to prioritising economics over health. I highly doubt they would've performed any better considering they all dragged their feet for months.

                      Knowing the impact, however, shapes our perspective and our actions.

                      Again, knowing about China's cases since Dec 2019, Western countries dragged their feet hoping it would disappear.

                      Knowing about the virus clearly did not shape the perspective, nor actions of any Western countries.

                      Yet the models of spread of the disease and very reliable sources have shown evidence China knew about the disease since mid November.

                      Please insert credible source.

                      The impact was downplayed and is still being downplayed in China.

                      Please insert credible source.

                      • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2020 - 00:45

                        @mychips:

                        Please insert credible source.

                        Come on.

                        Your type of argument hinges on "show proof" every step of the way until people cannot be bothered.

                        Have fun with that.

                        • mychips on 10/04/2020 - 14:33
                          +1

                          @[Deactivated]: You're clutching to straws with your weak argument that China should've somehow alerted the world to a flu-like illness after a case or two.

                          A single case of pneumonia would not compel any nation to announce a possible pandemic to WHO and you're delusional if you'd think any Western country would do that considering the slow and pathetic reactions they had following the initial announcement in Dec.

                          You can't honestly believe that a Western country would've handled it any differently…

                          • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2020 - 14:37
                            -2

                            @mychips: Freedom of press. Even if the government didn't want to do anything differently, the outcome would have been earlier disclosure and more truthful disclosure.

                            You've moved from asking for citation to just making personal remarks about clutching at straws and delusion.

                            Very strong points. Have a good weekend.

                            • mychips on 10/04/2020 - 15:01
                              +2

                              @[Deactivated]: Nope, not a personal remark but rather a comment reflecting your naivety in believing that Western countries would somehow react better. Are you even aware of how slow Western countries were in dealing with this virus? Disclosure? Trump sacked a Navy captain for disclosing that there were 100 navy sailors with the disease. Surely you're not that naive to think that Western countries would've somehow made an announcement to the WHO in November 17 as it makes no sense whatsoever.

                              I will summarise the facts for you since it appears that you lack a basic understanding of this disease and China's circumstances.

                              These are the facts:
                              - Covid19 shares many similarities to the common cold/flu
                              - There were no tests in China for this disease and weren't any in the US until March
                              - The disease can take 1 month to conclude since it is a novel virus the Chinese wouldn't have seen many cases conclude until mid to late Dec (even if the 1st case was backdated to the 17 Nov).
                              - The Chinese could not have known everything about it from the 1st case of pneumonia that was presented.
                              - China would have had many cases of the common flu as it was flu season (Dec to Feb is flu season for China).

                              Your argument is hinging on the fact that the 1st known case was backdated to the 17 Nov doesn't even reflect the reality that no country would announce to the world a possible virus until they knew what it was. I doubt any country would figure it all out within a month as cases take a month to conclude. Mind you, this is a novel virus and the differences between it and other flu's are nuanced.

                              • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2020 - 21:18
                                +1

                                @mychips:

                                believing that Western countries would somehow react better

                                Unlike China, would Western countries have forced a doctor to apologise for communicating his findings and concerns?

                                SBS - Outpouring of grief for Dr Li Wenliang's death

                                Unlike China, would Western countries censor his/her name on social media and the web?

                                this is a novel virus and the differences between it and other flu's are nuanced

                                Sure, but it is not the flu and Dr Li Wenliang raised that concern. He was silenced.

                                People who questioned the CCP and have gone missing include:
                                - Chen Qiushi
                                - Li Zehua
                                - Fang Bin

                                • mychips on 11/04/2020 - 12:23
                                  +1

                                  @[Deactivated]:

                                  Unlike China, would Western countries have forced a doctor to apologise for communicating his findings and concerns?

                                  Heard of doctors and health care professionals that were arrested for blowing the whistle in Nauru?

                                  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-17/australias-top-doctor…

                                  Or the sacking of a US Navy captain who blew the whistle on cases in his aircraft carrier

                                  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-04/us-navy-coronavirus-c…

                                  I could list many more cases of censorship within the West. Snowden, Assange, the list goes on mate. You only need to live under a rock to genuinely believe that silencing doesn't occur in the West.

                                  • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2020 - 14:59
                                    +1

                                    @mychips:

                                    Heard of doctors and health care professionals that were arrested for blowing the whistle in Nauru?

                                    Who arrested them? Government of Nauru or Australia?

                                    Or the sacking of a US Navy captain who blew the whistle on cases in his aircraft carrier…Snowden, Assange, the list goes on mate

                                    So these issues came to light. I'm glad. What happened after?

                                    Are these people all missing? Do you think their actions are justifiable?

                                    My questions remain, unlike China, would Western countries have forced a doctor to apologise for communicating his findings and concerns?

                                    Unlike China, would they censor their names from the web?

      • doowhydiddi on 08/04/2020 - 13:59
        +1

        What are you talking about? He'd go after them without an election coming up…it's in his nature as a businessman.

      • MrBear on 08/04/2020 - 21:01

        Won't China just call in their loans to the US which would bankrupt the US?

      • Pimpiticians 4 Life on 08/04/2020 - 21:42

        Ask Trumps boss Sheldon 'lets drop a nuke in the middle of Tehran' Adelson.

        Trumps target will be Venezuela or Iran well before China.

    • bronan on 07/04/2020 - 22:49

      Yeah - we won't do anything. Australia is a Western country, but we're moreso an Eastern country when it comes to our economy. Any pain China's feels has a proportional impact on us.

    • abb on 08/04/2020 - 10:27
      +10

      would be surprised if Trump does not sue China for this.

      Under what legal framework can one sue a foreign country ?

      • tsunamisurfer on 08/04/2020 - 11:03

        Exactly….even if they find some international court that will adjudicate on this and get a valid outcome, how are you going to get the money from China?

        • trapper on 08/04/2020 - 11:26
          +2

          They would probably just sue in a US court. If they win then the court can take control of China's assets inside the US to settle the debt.

      • Mad Max on 08/04/2020 - 16:49

        Under what legal framework can one sue a foreign country ?

        Legal framework??? Small detail…Trump will sue anyway

      • dengziyi on 09/04/2020 - 02:22
        +6

        People who think suing an entire country is a viable option are just naive. Not only is there absolutely no legal framework to hold a power like China accountable, but where does the blame lie, in the animal, the person??

        When the US 1% crashed the stock market because of monetary incompetency, who paid for that?

        • Tambani on 09/04/2020 - 09:39
          +1

          People on this forum seem to hold the naive few that international law isn't an oxy-moron.

        • Niko123456 on 11/04/2020 - 10:06

          there is actually lots of precendent for countries owing other countries money through reparations.

          there is also lots of international courts and trade bodies which adjudicate rulines between countries.

          Australia has previously sued Japan (major trading partner) in the International Court of Justice: https://www.asil.org/insights/volume/18/issue/9/australia-v-…

          • dengziyi on 11/04/2020 - 13:53
            +1

            @Niko123456: Yes and what did Japan do? Nothing. Australia sued them in Australia too, which arguably has more weight. Japan temporarily stayed their whaling, but then commenced it again after pulling out of the treaty which landed them in ICJ in the first place. It did nothing!

            Maybe states will use the intl instruments as just popularity boost.

            While countries have paid reparations before, they're usually not more than a few mill (Unless we're talking Germany and we know how that ended up). Like I said, when a few banks in the US brought the world to its economic knees, who paid?

    • R4 on 08/04/2020 - 12:38

      I don't know how he could even begin to sue China but anyhoo

      If he wins in November though, I expect that he will impose further tariffs on China and make efforts to restrict their trade

      • SlavOz on 08/04/2020 - 17:21
        -4

        Perhaps electing Trump wasn't the worst move after all. Does anyone actually believe that another candidate, let alone lying Hillary, would have the balls to go after China?

        Trumps arrogance is his biggest weapon. We need leaders who are so far up their own ass that theres no conceivable way they could ever be up someone else's.

        • koalabargains on 09/04/2020 - 11:56
          +4

          Why don't you move to America?

          You obviously don't like Australia's laws, customs, or political system.

          You've only been here for two generations.

          You are a Trump supporter.

          So, why not take advantage of the e3 visa that is only available for Australian citizens?

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa

          Why don't you actually put your money where your mouth is and MOVE to the promised land? Instead of b*itching and moaning about how bad Australia is?

          • SlavOz on 09/04/2020 - 18:39
            +1

            @koalabargains: Where have I ever complained about Australia being bad? You're just putting words in my mouth. Nor do I praise America in any way.

            I'm simply recognising that Trump, a democratically elected leader, has shown an admirable hard-line attitude in getting shit done. For some reason I get the feeling this is triggering you

            • koalabargains on 09/04/2020 - 19:05

              @SlavOz: You criticize the Australian social welfare system all the time. The property market. Lots.

              Is the reason you won't move to the US because you know that Australia is a safe place and that you wouldn't do very well in the American system?

              • SlavOz on 10/04/2020 - 13:59
                +1

                @koalabargains: Err think you're mistaking me with someone else. My previous thread was me against most of Ozbargain where I was the one arguing in favour of Australia's welfare system - essentially I said it's already good enough and shouldn't be increased or given to people willy nilly. Sure I dont agree with the fact that it was raised to virtually give people a full time wage for zero work, but I wouldn't call that "complaining about Australia".

                You're conflating my approval of America's democratically elected leader for thinking America is better than Australia. Thats a wild mental leap. All I'm saying here is that Trump is showing admirable ego in getting shit done at times of crisis. Credit where credit is due. Thats all.

                • koalabargains on 10/04/2020 - 18:31
                  -1

                  @SlavOz:

                  My previous thread was me against most of Ozbargain where I was the one arguing in favour of Australia's welfare system - essentially I said it's already good enough and shouldn't be increased or given to people willy nilly.

                  The Australian welfare system has been slashed and cut for years and it is a shadow of what it used to be. Arguing for it to stay the same is arguing for it to get worse because it is not being kept with inflation. Even the liberals acknowledge this with the temporary increase to newstart.

                  You're conflating my approval of America's democratically elected leader for thinking America is better than Australia.

                  No. I am correctly labeling your attitude. In many of your previous threads you go against what the rest of Ozbargain and general collective wisdom of Australia is. In regards to welfare, property, jobs, and others.

                  In a thread about welfare for non-residents who lost their jobs you said:

                  "Jesus, the debate around welfare for the unemployed citizens is already at full blast. Are we really going to entertain the notion of supporting other countries' citizens too? Why not just sign over the deed to Sydney harbour while we're at it.

                  https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/527049?page=2#comment-8505…

                  What a wonderful sentiment.

                  On a thread about a pause on mortgages, which other nations have, like Italy, you wrote:

                  Wow, after surfing Reddit for a few days and reading all the socialist hysteria around Covid, this thread has restored my faith in humanity.
                  Reddit is literally one massive echo chamber of people like OP throwing one stupid idea on top of another and bashing anyone who disagrees to death with their stupidity.
                  OP, no, I will not pay your mortgage for you. Nice try.

                  https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/525954#comment-8477188

                  True ANZAC spirit right there.

                  Oh here's you making a fun joke about how women should stay at home and clean.

                  Women leave her job and stay at home to do the cleaning? Omg that's so sexist, how dare you, woman-hater, neo-Nazi White Supremacist!!!

                  -Australian media
                  https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/496818#comment-8003601

                  Clearly you prefer a conservative American perspective. That's why you constantly link to American conservative nonsense and repeat American conservative talking points.

                  Even now you repeat American conservative propaganda.

                  All I'm saying here is that Trump is showing admirable ego in getting shit done at times of crisis. Credit where credit is due.

                  Trump's handling of the coronavirus has resulted in his country having the most coronavirus deaths of any country in the world. 17 million americans lost their jobs in the last 3 weeks putting unemployment at the worst rate since the Great Depression.

                  There are so many hungry Americans there are miles of cars with people waiting for for free food.

                  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8193153/Miles-long-…

                  So. For the THIRD TIME- why dont YOU move to America? You could enjoy Trump's leadership FIRST HAND.

                  • SlavOz on 10/04/2020 - 20:53

                    @koalabargains:

                    In many of your previous threads you go against what the rest of Ozbargain and general collective wisdom of Australia is

                    Wow, that's a pretty close minded view. You dont speak for the entirety of Australia mate. And given that you've (correctly) labelled me as conservative, I'd say it's me with Australia in my corner given that we've elected a conservative government three terms in a row. So no, you do not hold the collective wisdom of Australia, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

                    And none of those quotes actually substantiate anything you claim about me. Like, what the hell does making sarcastic remarks about women have to do with criticising Australia? You're on some wild mental gymnastics on that one.

                    Clearly you prefer a conservative American perspective.

                    Now, here's one you actually got right. Thankfully it seems that the majority of Australia also prefers a conservative American perspective, given that this fine country has elected a fine white Christian male as our leader. So I'm quite happy here.

                    Trump's handling of the coronavirus has resulted in his country having the most coronavirus deaths of any country in the world.

                    Well let's not forget they also have one of the biggest populations in the world, and although China is bigger they had the advantage of knowing about the virus and hiding it for months, ensuring they could minimise their death count. America is also the hub of business travel which would've contributed to the spread there. There are far more logistical factors involved in Coronavirus than simply "Orange man bad!!"

                    News flash - the whole world is losing jobs and facing a Depression. Prior to this shitstorm caused by our fine Chinese counterparts, Trump lowered America's unemployment rate to the lowest of most past presidents.

                    • koalabargains on 03/05/2020 - 17:56
                      -2

                      @SlavOz: Its great that you can admit youre a conservative, and you believe in a conervative american pov and you like that:

                      this fine country has elected a fine white Christian male as our leader.

                      You are everything I said you were and more, which is absolutely typical of 2nd generation eastern europeans in every developed country.

                      Mate, you cant bloody think is the problem.

                      Prior to this shitstorm caused by our fine Chinese counterparts, Trump lowered America's unemployment rate to the lowest of most past presidents.

                      Magical thinking beyond belief. "But before trump oversaw the worst unemployment since the great depression he was doing GREAT!"

                      You know no other developed country has seen the same proportional level of unemployment due to this crisis as usa rifht?

                      Of course not. Thank god we're getting Chinese and indian immigrants now bc at least they can think.

    • NatoTomato on 08/04/2020 - 13:11
      +3

      Australia is not going to follow suit, and Rio Tinto and other big iron ore companies such as FMG will make sure of it.

      • R4 on 08/04/2020 - 18:49

        Agree. Our industry remains strong and robust with full production ongoing and much more capacity coming online in the next few years.

    • quanticism on 09/04/2020 - 20:11

      Trump already stopped calling the covid-19 the "China Flu", possibly because China is withholding medical supplies. This situation has given China too much leverage over other countries.

    • yannyrjl on 10/04/2020 - 00:23

      Donald Trump Don't Trust China, China is Asshoe !!

  • bronan on 07/04/2020 - 22:33
    +31

    Good chance it'll end in a recession, or with our currency being further devalued (the AUD hit a FIFTEEN YEAR low compared to the USD last fortnight).

    Since Australia missed the GFC, our housing bubble never collapsed, so a recession now may hit us harder than it hits the rest of the world.

    Also worth noting that on top of the $130b JobSeeker payment, the government also gave $105b to the banks under a scheme called "Quantitive Easing". And that is going to (profanity) us really in the long term. We magically created 8% of our GDP overnight and gave it directly to the banks so they can offer businesses low interest rate loans which will end up creating MORE debt…

    The GFC should have taught us that banks AREN'T too big to fail, and a bank bailout isn't the answer.

    And Rudd's stimulus was only $40b, so the next few years will be economically trying no matter how the pieces land.

    Recommended viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrn8sZsLnRE

    • leiiv on 08/04/2020 - 02:09
      +2

      I don't understand why anybody would neg you without offering any arguments

      • ThithLord on 08/04/2020 - 08:40
        +18

        Welcome to OzBargain

      • Devils Advocate on 08/04/2020 - 22:56
        +13

        I wasn't one of the neggers, but here's a couple of reasons:
        1. (TLDR) This person has no idea what they are talking about.
        2. Quantitative easing (or as OP put it "Quantitive Easing") wasn't from the government, rather the RBA. Watch other countries around the world do the same thing (although most already have). QE isn't giving money to the banks either, it's increasing money supply by buying back bonds (with cash).
        3. The GFC didn't teach us that at all. If the US had have allowed more banks other than Lehman/Bear Stearns to collapse then their unemployment would have gone to 20%+ and it would have been a much deeper recession, looking more like the Great Depression. Banks (however unethical) are crucial for the supply of money to the economy.
        4. No point comparing Rudd's stimulus to this, completely different circumstances. Out of the blue businesses are being forced to shut for an unknown period of time. There’s no way to prepare for that, so this isn't like the GFC at all.
        5. Not sure what the point of their first sentance is, but having a weak AUD compared to USD and CNY is a positive for the economy. Of course there will be a recession, but a weak AUD will help us (we're a net exporting country).

    • BestofOZB on 08/04/2020 - 18:06
      +2

      They didn't really give it to the banks, banks can borrow it from the government, at a very low rate, to lend it to businesses, so althought banks will pay it back at a very low rate over a long term, it ain't a handout.

      For the record, I don't really agree with most of what the F Scomo is doing.

    • R4 on 08/04/2020 - 18:51
      +1

      We may get a recession (make that probably) but it won't be because of the low AUD. Right now that's a bonus as our exports are cheaper, driving demand and the need for new capacity. New capacity drives billions in spending and consumption in the economy.

      • Skinnerr on 08/04/2020 - 20:04

        Yep. Low AUD is bad for citizens/residents and local companies but great for international business.

    • Tambani on 09/04/2020 - 09:40
      +1

      End in a recession? We're IN a recession. The goal is to avoid a depression.

    • yannyrjl on 10/04/2020 - 00:27

      you do realise they will never bail-out banks again? now that Bail-in laws have been passed under the radar in 2018, and all the majors have updated their terms and conditions already.

      Also, the removal of cash for significant purchases in the so call fight against the "black markets" means negative interest rates is just around the corner and you will be stuck in the banking system.

  • abc123z on 07/04/2020 - 22:34
    +6

    It will not just be taxpayers but the actual net taxpayers (who are in the minority) and the people who already pay the majority of the income tax, who will be paying even more. Not the people who live mostly off welfare and think they are taxpayers because they pay a bit of gst when they spend their free money.

    "High income", payg taxpayers, defined as most single tax payers earning about average wage and people with children earning about $150,000+, will be paying even more and if labor gets in with a bunch of greens, these people should live in fear, wealth taxes, death taxes, absolutely punitive taxes… anything could happen. A special income tax levy on these people is a given.

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