I saw this this afternoon, on news.com.au
Yes it may be considered 'non-essential' travel, but how is someone learning to drive? In fact, now would be the perfect time now that there are less idiots (I mean drivers) on the road. The L-plater probably no longer has a job, so how can she pay the $100 fine?
Do you think the Police Office was correct in fining the L-Plater?
Vic is a nanny state that's why most of the fined happens to be in Vic. Nsw fines those people that are truly dimwits.
Yeah Victoria still says no unless heading somewhere essential during the lesson.
But I don't know if Victoria has clarified their eating a kebab policy.
Just FYI in Victoria a driving instructor has been fined as well, so driving lesson is not fine whatsoever…
Driving exams have been suspended until further notice as well.
Or in NSW?
NSW is the North Korea of Australia.
NKW - New Korea of Wales
NSW is the North Korea of Australia
Isn't it Victoria?
Daniel Andrews is a long way from being the Dear Leader type.
I don't think Victorians are in the same situation as North Koreans.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/north-korean-d…
You realise that not only are Gel Blasters not allowed in Victoria & NSW, but so are Anti-Aircraft guns. ;)
Better get onto the local branch of the NRA about that.
but how is someone learning to drive?
Learning to drive is NOT on the list of valid reasons to leave the house. They had been 30+ kms away from their house.
But to answer your question, the L plater can only drive to the supermarket/takeaway places as part of food shopping or to medical appointments.
From the article
We didn’t think for one minute that we would be doing anything wrong
Thats the problem and what everyone says, plus I'm not sick or I do this all the time or blah blah blah. Its why we have a beach full of people when the beach is closed, but we are not "doing anything wrong".
As soon as people realise they are not above the law, the less stupid media reports about fines there will be.
There’s a bit of common sense involved too though. What harm do two people driving in a car cause exactly?
The blanket rule doesn’t make sense in every case. Hence why they stated it’s fine in NSW.
There’s a bit of common sense involved too though
Common sense doesn't override the law. Simple as that.
The blanket rule doesn’t make sense in every case
What part of 'stay at home' do you not understand?
The part I wrote above. A blanket rule of not leaving the house wouldn’t even be enforceable in court because there’s no actual law for it.
This maintains the rule for social distancing. So what’s the problem, exactly?
A blanket rule of not leaving the house wouldn’t even be enforceable in court because there’s no actual law for it.
You sure about that? I think you find there is now.
@cnut: https://gazette.legislation.nsw.gov.au/so/download.w3p?id=Ga…
Learning to drive is not a reason under schedule 1 to leave your house. Part of legislation and therefore the law? I'm not a lawyer though, also NSW.
@asupre2541: Ok schedule 1 states what you’re allowed to do. Still stupid this isn’t allowed, but that’s because they can’t foresee every possible scenario and it needs to be treated on a case by case basis with some.
I wonder how many people were fined here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.themercury.com.au/coronavir…
Probably none, too many to police
I think the driving lesson was innocuous and there is no way it would have spread any virus other than to own family which they wouldn't be out anyway if they are sick.
Since the ultimate purpose of this so called social distancing is to prevent the spread the virus, this driving lesson would not lead to the spread of the virus.
A warning would have been appropriate and to be honest, this is already borderline dictatorship.
@Hybroid did make a valid point or 2, which I respect and find acceptable. If an accident was to occur, more people could be at risk.
However, I feel that the officer involved could have used their discretion more, and given the L plater a warning.
Though maybe the parent gave the officer a bit of lip, and said get real?
Regrettably, the young lass now has probably lost all confidence in going back on the road again.
@burningrage - Exactly my thoughts!
From Sydney Morning hero:
NSW Police say L-platers still welcome on the roads
After a Victorian L-plater was fined for violating lockdown rules on Sunday, the NSW Police Force has clarified their stance on that issue in New South Wales.
"A reasonable excuse includes travelling for the purposes of work where you cannot work from home, so driving instructors can leave their house for their work – to teach people how to drive," they said on Facebook.
"We consider that it would be a reasonable excuse for a person to leave their house to receive driving lessons (either from a driving instructor or a member of their family), given that this is a learning activity that cannot be done from home and is akin to the listed reasonable excuse of travelling to attend an educational institution where you cannot learn from home."
They also recommended that learner drivers could continue to drive with a supervising family member for any of the listed reasonable excuses for leaving the house, such as driving to the supermarket.
Hunter Reynolds, 17, was about 20 minutes into a drive with her mother on Sunday when she was pulled over by police on the Peninsula Link in Frankston and told she was "too far from home".
The learner driver, who is in her final year of school, was issued a $1625 fine for "non-essential travel".
Again, what a better time to learn how to control your vehicle? Less idiot drivers on the road?
I agree and too many time it is confusing what you can or you can't do.
We are expecting to get to stay home for few months and people also have their live, people need to go out for their mental health, breath some fresh air.Different people have differnet common sense.
In this case officer should offer warning and explain their view on interpretation of their reasoning in stead of fine immediately.
Victoria has different rules from NSW and they stated that she was fined since they were driving a far distance for 40 minutes and not just in the same area. Anywho, it's been withdrawn anyway
Great. I think people are not limited to where they shop, people in VIC ask on Facebook where they can go to Costco which is 30 mins away and another Facebook user response that she can.
I am not police and as I said common sense is different from people to people, so if anyone wants to go to Costco as it is more value for money and can buy bulk, I still think it is reasonable instead police will say it is too far and not necessary.
Also previously in VIC you cant meet your partner under the'lockdown' and now got repel.
Driving lessons are a form of education. You can leave home for educational purposes.
I would be really curious how a magistrate would rule since they often take into account the "spirit" of the law - which in this case would be related to social distancing.
I hope the police back down after the public backlash. I'll start using my kid as an excuse to go places and say I'm taking him for a lesson. Sweet as.
/s
Stay at home and stfu
This is so freaking messed up and pathetic….
The cops should be ashamed of themselves.
Instead of going after all the douchebags that are constantly hanging out at the beaches and don't give a rats ass about the advice and ignoring everything, they go and fine a poor 16 year old girl who is in her car and trying to score some hours under her logbook.
If you compare the 2, Who the fk is doing more harm!?!?!?
They probably had nothing to do so thought they'd make use of the time and get the hours done in these times.
Shits getting ridiculous.
They probably had nothing to do so
Oh I thought you were talking about the coppers..
Yeah theyd be shitting themselves with the lost fine money
I wonder what theyd do if all of us just refused to pay for this shit
While the law is one thing, the spirit of the law is another. I don't live in NSW which probably has the tightest rules at the moment, but everyone is told to stay home unless getting food or going to work.
It's April, and mushroom season is starting in the state's forests. I love to go on long walks (exercise) and pick mushrooms (food) and there literally isn't anyone around for hundreds of metres, if not more. The forest is 30 minutes by car from my house, and I don't stop at any shops/cafes/etc along the way. I fear some bored police officer will stop me and hand me a $1000 travel fee because my trip isn't absolutely essential. Contrast this to a supermarket that may have several hundred people inside with some coughing and sneezing, but that's okay under the rules.
Police should use common sense judgement when applying the rules otherwise people will lose respect for both the rules and police.
Can I go shopping with three people in one car??
Why? Surely you can shop with one or two. Taking extra people is just increasing you risk of exposure.
If it is people from the same household then you can but if it's from a different household then you can only bring 1 other person and they have to sit at the back.
they both live in the same household (different to mine) one at the front and one at the back?
Can someone else pls confirm?
I know that if you have 1 person in a household, only 1 person can come visit but if there is 2 or more people in a house then no one can visit unless it is your child.
@WT: How about you use your brain and answer the question? Noone is sure about this and why don't you have a go at everyone that is questioning it as well?
I don't Get it. Why is everyone acting like the government ia doing this just to get a kick out of it. They obviously trying to defeat the virus and keeping eveyeone safe.
I get it. No government is perfect and our government made so many stupid mistakes but come on it's not hard just to stay home for a few weeks.
What other time will a learner driver be able to build confidence with a massively reduced traffic volume on roads?
Haha maybe not during a pandemic?
So, never?
Learner driver gets confidence by driving in normal conditions, aka when there is traffic and cars on the roads. If you want no cars on the road, then go to a parking lot or quiet side streets. Thats what all other learners have done for decades, we dont all wait for a pandemic to then decide its essential…
I managed to learn how to drive during a NONE reduced traffic. So did everyone else who obtained their license previously prior to this pandemic.
I don't understand the logic in their argument but to laugh at it. Lol
Seriously it isn't fair imo the people who have corona virus or are meant to self isolate go out and get caught they get fined the same amount how is that right?
If everyone tries to take advantage of the situation, for a perceived good or bad cause, we are only going to make this much worse. What stops loosers from attaching a L plate and roaming around. Let's take this seriously and do the right thing.
What stops loosers
Tighters?
Welcome to communist Australia where the things you thought is OK is not actually OK now.
Don't worry another 12 6 months to go.
Lockdown level 4 will be the real test of patience.
If the isolation madness to get you first that is…..
Social credit score here we come.
Based on some of the comments some will be happy with their political pirates and banker overlords running rough-shot as long as they can still get their little bargains.
so how can she pay the $100 fine?
Better than $1000 I guess
They just need to give fine the population 213,000,000 times (min fine of $1k) to offset the $213b stimulus.
Here one for you and your dog/s for taking a walk.
Here is one for every visitor/back packer just to help us to raise revenue.
Here is one for everyone in the family for BBQ gathering
Here is one for you it's ok you are in a suit, go back to work and save our economy.
Thinking there was more risk involved in the issuing of the ticket… maybe they could re purpose the mobile phone cameras to police unruly L platers in Victoria..
Should've given a warning. It is not like they deliberate fail the rule.
Can one opts in jail time instead of paying fine?
I think its a fine only or both fine and jail time.
You can add jail time by asking politely with the officer ….no spit needed.
Article said there are 4 valid reasons for going out, learning to drive with mummy is not one of them, fine is valid should stand. if i were a judge Id jail both for a year and impound the car. people HAVE to learn to obey the law even if its stupid
there is a pandemic if these ppl had an accident and had covid and infected and killed a responder they'd be up for manslaughter
Stay at home
Bravo Judge Dredd!
Fine quashed as it’s now classed as education
Shouldn’t she be studying instead of worrying about driving aimlessly for a licence?
Harsh. But i think as people arent really taking things seriously, it might be necessary. As heard on radio these days there are only 4 reasons to be outside home and none of which is learning to drive.
The mother should have been fined instead for naming her daughter Hunter.
Were they driving to the supermarket?
Not fair, and if she needs to do 120 hours at some point she needs to go out of her suburb to get main road and country driving experience. So the “too far from home” from the cop doesn’t wash either. These rules are in for some months, it’s not just one weekend. And the fact that others are being stupid and going out doesn’t transfer to others on the road.
Still, pulled over by a Vic police and not being shot is some sort of consolation……
"NSW Police Force
Q: Can I take a learner driver for a lesson?
A: Under the Public Health Orders, a person cannot leave their place of residence without a reasonable excuse.
A reasonable excuse includes travelling for the purposes of work where you cannot work from home, so driving instructors can leave their house for their work – to teach people how to drive.
We consider that it would be a reasonable excuse for a person to leave their house to receive driving lessons (either from a driving instructor or a member of their family), given that this is a learning activity that cannot be done from home and is akin to the listed reasonable excuse of travelling to attend an educational institution where you cannot learn from home.
Learner drivers could also continue to drive with a supervising family member for any of the listed reasonable excuses for leaving the house – for example, driving to the supermarket"
https://www.facebook.com/nswpoliceforce/posts/10157738379496…
A warning and telling them to go straight home would have sufficed.
How does this person get $1600 worth of ticket yet the lady coming in from Indonesia and does not self isolate but goes on a shopping spree only gets a $1000 ticket ..
Yes ones VIC and ones NSW, but the level of inconsistency is terrible.
Heard on the news this morning the relevant Minister Patton is reviewing that particular fine and it would probably be dropped! Should have just been given a warning.
Not only is the fine ridiculous, but so are the arguments of everyone supporting it. At the start and end of the day, the lockdown was put in place in order to curtail people interacting outside of their bubble as much as possible. That's it. Instead, NSW and VIC have taken it too far and made it about restricting personal freedoms. Let's examine it.
If I go out for a walk for the 'essential' excuse of exercise. And I go to a beautiful spot near my house, I am likely to pass by many other residents. That's okay as long as I keep social distancing rules right? No problem. Well, what if I want to go for a walk by myself, somewhere secluded and stop by a tree, interact with no one, wear gloves and a face mask. Well, is that okay? Walking is technically exercise but stopping midway is relaxation. But given the context of my trip, this is a far safer place than the previous scenario. Okay, grey area.
Finally, what if I want to go for a drive, by myself, in my car, with the air conditioning set to re-circulate. Never stop. Never get out. Never invite someone else in. "Oh but you could have an accident" you'll say. True. Technically true. Improbably true. But then… I can ride my bicycle for exercise and in which scenario am I more likely to get in an accident?
Simply put, the notion that we should put every little thing on lockdown is moronic because it takes an absolute approach to things that have a statistically insignificant impact on the virus as a whole. In this case, going to the shops for essentials is astronomically more dangerous than driving on your own without stops. So astronomically high by comparison that we should ban it if we keep applying this logic.
What the government should do instead is give guidelines directly tied to the best trade off between civil liberties and positive reduction in community transference. Only groups of 2 people make sense. Only households, and partners make sense. A few provisions for those who are elderly, in need of help and other special cases makes sense. Infringing on the personal freedoms doesn't. And the worse thing is that as people come up against these rules and find out how silly and ridiculous they are, they will eventually think all the rules are silly and ridiculous. Which is dangerous. More dangerous by far, than a mother teaching her daughter to drive.
Make sure you wear a stackhat when bicycling. ;)
Simply put, the notion that we should put every little thing on lockdown is moronic because it takes an absolute approach to things that have a statistically insignificant impact on the virus as a whole.
I would agree once the immediate danger has passed. We're pretty much at the height of it now and everything needs to be done to stop transmission.
If we have truly flattened the curve then we could look into restoring some of these personal freedoms.
NSW and Vic took it "too far" because there is much more to lose given they're the most densely populated centres in Australia. If you said this sort of lockdown is happening near Ayres Rock I'd be in your camp.
Someone was fined for reading a book in a park. So yeah even exercising your eyes and mind don't count apparently.
I personally think so much of this is too far. If you're not interacting with anybody or anything eg you stay in your car and go for a drive and don't get out or open the window then what's wrong with that?? Or you just have to lie about your intention then. Sure. I'm going out for some food. I can only get it from X.
This is insane.
If the L plater didn't stop anywhere and leave the car at all what's the risk? Being pulled over and having to roll down the window and talk to the police officer put them all at risk more than anything.
How do we not consider leaving the house and focusing on something other than doom for an hour not essential for mental health.
Honesty is NOT the best policy clearly.
Idiot Robocop
There is always an option to have the case heard in court. In this case I would exercise this right.
First, given the current situation, it could well be many months before it comes to a sitting.
Second, I think there would be reasonable arguments about conflicting and confusing rules in different states regarding learner drivers at this time.
Third, I would argue that the amount of the fine is grossly excessive, especially in the context of how unlikely it would be to encounter another person, as compared to going shopping, for example.
Magistrates have considerable discretion in many cases involving fines. Given that this would likely be heard in many months, probably after the main part of the crisis has passed, there would be little need for a strong 'message' to be sent.
After all this, a worst-case scenario would only involve the full fine, plus costs (which would only be a few extra $$$ anyway). Definitely worth taking the odds to it.
The police is too harsh. The girl may be too free and bored at home. Maybe she had been studying all day at home and was thinking out for a relief or for out of routine , so she took a driving lesson. After all most of the streets were empty. Seems the police was a bit too much and undesired.
This just sums up precisely the haughty attitude of these snotty nosed kids
Victoria under Labor Premier Daniel Andrews has become a police state.
They are running totally contrary to other states.
The Victorians got what they voted for.
Now dont complain!
Soviet Socialist Republic of Victoria
Probably a warning is fine. But still dont get why you would need to drive the distance of 30mins away from your own home.
probably heading down to the Peninsula to check on the holiday house…
Some of these rules don't make sense. Thousand of people gathering on the beach to "exercise" is ok, but you are not allowed to go for a drive or ride a Motorbike alone.
Exempt one , exempt all, people will just they are doing it , so I'm going as well..
Simple fact under 30s great % see themselves as immune only old people die, the risk that they may be spreading it doesnt matter.. it's generation we live in … sadly
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/on-th…
Well looks like they have withdrawn the fine.
Yes it has.
Whilst I think the fine is a bit rough I don't think staying at home is solely about not spreading the virus in this situation.
The medical system is under pressure right now and by reducing the number of cars on the road as well as the number of people out and about, it is reducing the number of incidents that need emergency services. Why have extra unnecessary burdens on the system at this point.
Just stay home.
@rompastompa:
Is that fine line mono or braided?