Advice Please: Sold Velocity Points, Now The Buyer Wants to Return The Points and Get a Refund Due to COVID-19

Lammigga on 05/04/2020 - 19:14
Last edited 05/04/2020 - 19:15

Asking some advice in relation to a sale of Velocity points I made in early March.

Buyer had a post in the classifieds on OzB looking for points. I contacted them, and offered to sell them my points at the price they were looking for.

Now, in early April, the buyer has come back to me saying they will be requesting a paypal refund for the purchase as they said they cannot use the points as intended and also they have lost their job as a result of COVID-19. They have said they will return the points to me (which I don't want, otherwise I wouldn't have sold them).

My position would be they have no grounds for a refund. They posted on OzB looking for Velocity points, I responded to them and provided them the points at the price they were looking for and provided them the points (to which there has been no issue). The transaction has gone as expected.

Can you please let me know whether you agree with my position and if I am missing anything? Any pointers/advice would also be appreciated - I feel really out of my depth here.

Thanks!

Financial

Comments

  • sugarfree on 05/04/2020 - 19:15
    +87

    Don’t refund.

  • kahn on 05/04/2020 - 19:17
    +22

    Ideally, that person would be kicked off Ozbargain by the mods.

    • apu on 05/04/2020 - 20:17
      +11

      I agree, failure to abide by the spirit of the OzB Classifieds.

  • dcep on 05/04/2020 - 19:19
    +42

    transfer out all paypal funds
    remove credit card from paypal
    remove bank account from paypal

    • paraneoplastic on 05/04/2020 - 20:05
      +8

      Don't do all three at once, or they'll temp suspend the account for "high risk" activity - trust me i know too well.

  • bloom on 05/04/2020 - 19:20
    +6

    Name and shame

    • kerfuffle on 05/04/2020 - 19:22
      +16

      Right here

      • bobbified on 05/04/2020 - 19:47
        +2

        Funny, because he was selling 90k points last year at 1.2c pp and he wanted to buy for 1-1.1c pp. Wonder if he/she was buying and selling (rather than actually using) and realising that they might be worth a lot less now because Virgin might go bust.

        • kerfuffle on 05/04/2020 - 20:04

          That selling ad doesn't look like it was successful though as it was marked as expired

          • xuqi on 05/04/2020 - 20:07
            +8

            @kerfuffle: It shows that the buyer isn't an inexperienced noob in this type pf trading, so knew what they were asking for, or getting in to.

  • bdl on 05/04/2020 - 19:23
    +1

    Agree with your position. Tell them to go buy gift cards or something. Maybe red balloon can sell them a gift card to "go jump" :)

  • [Deactivated] on 05/04/2020 - 19:26
    +17

    All sales are final.

  • triviums on 05/04/2020 - 19:30
    +17

    The buyer should have been completely aware of COVID-19 by early March so it's their fault for not considering COVID-19 when they made the purchase.

  • Slippery Fish on 05/04/2020 - 19:37
    +5

    Lol there is no warranty on private sales.

  • xuqi on 05/04/2020 - 19:37
    +3

    They buyer has just figured out that Virgin may go bust and is looking hand back the points. Too damn bad for the buyer as their change of mind isn't your problem.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-03/virgin-australia-is-r…

    This is why you don't use PayPal to sell.

  • Donaldhump on 05/04/2020 - 19:44
    +1

    Tough shit , tell them where to go

  • [Deactivated] on 05/04/2020 - 19:45
    +2

    Ignore them.

  • brendanm on 05/04/2020 - 19:49
    +9

    No take backsies.

  • cheaplee on 05/04/2020 - 19:52
    +3

    I know paypal is notorious for favouring buyers with unfair refunds\chargebacks etc.

    I, fortunately, have not had to deal with it before. What would paypal ask of the buyer in this instance to justify the refund? I mean there is no way for paypal to ensure the buyer does actually send the points back…

    • brendanm on 05/04/2020 - 19:55
      +8

      PayPal can be pricks, I've had to deal with them being difficult on three occasions, two scammy buyers, and one where they refused access to over $1k of funds, forever, in another account. On each occasion, an email to https://www.fos.org.au/ solved the problems.

      PayPal acts tough, but they can not screw you over if you are in the right, as OP is.

    • 87percent on 05/04/2020 - 20:15
      +5

      Selling points is against t&c’s of airline miles, isn’t it? No way they can enforce a refund

    • smoothymcmellow on 06/04/2020 - 07:21
      +2

      When I worked in a hotel, we would allow guests to prepay via PayPal.
      A few times we had guests stay 2 weeks then afterwards claim a refund stating they never stayed.
      I'd send PayPal a copy of terms and conditions, photocopy of passport, signed check in form.
      They would still refund the guest stating insufficient evidence, you could never contact them about it, they would just ignore you or state their ruling is final.
      Just terrible business practices

  • popsiee on 05/04/2020 - 19:53
    +1

    Tell the buyer to look at this thread and see the answer .

    • xuqi on 05/04/2020 - 19:55
      +2

      Buyer has already seen this thread as the account is/was online looking at it.

  • AdosHouse on 05/04/2020 - 19:55
    -1

    With these sort of, "help buyer wants a refund" threads, OPs don't really need advice so much as they need a spine.

    • FireRunner on 05/04/2020 - 20:04
      +7

      Not always, especially when PayPal is involved.

      • AdosHouse on 05/04/2020 - 21:07

        That's true, but not much point asking for advice if Paypal are going to refund it anyway.

        And I was talking about these types of threads in general, including ones with bank transfers, and other payment methods.

    • Mechz on 05/04/2020 - 20:36

      A spine is no use when paypal takes the wrong side.

      • AdosHouse on 05/04/2020 - 21:08

        See my reply above.

  • apu on 05/04/2020 - 20:13
    +11

    Hang on - this is totally unfair to you OP. Not to mention Velocity Points do not need to be used for flights/accom. They can be used to buy gift cards etc. The points themselves are the currency.

    https://view.velocityfrequentflyer.com/the-basics/5-ways-to-…

    They "cannot use the points as intended" - how they specifically intended to use the points is not your problem. The points are generally still fit for purpose and can still be used for other non-travel purposes, and not to mention that they can just save them and use them at a later date.

  • xuqi on 05/04/2020 - 20:18
    +4

    Suggestions for OP:

    Refuse to take the back point as the buyer clearly knew what he/she was doing.

    Keep copies of the threads below (save/print PDF in browser):

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/454348
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/522695

    Save copies of your PayPal transaction info, and all your communications with the buyer.

    If/when PayPal gives you grief lodge a complaint with AFCA:

    https://www.afca.org.au/

  • madreece on 05/04/2020 - 20:33

    Wouldn't this have been a family and friends payment, not a purchase as such?

    • pyramid on 05/04/2020 - 20:46

      Exactly so i do not think Paypal would care. But i'm not an expert.

    • tomclancy on 05/04/2020 - 21:19

      If buyer paid with credit card via PayPal friends & family, then they could theoretically request a chargeback via their credit card issuer. PayPal will screw you over for this too. Only outcome the OP will come out a winner is if this happens then they contact AFCA (https://www.afca.org.au/) which is the new name for the Financial Ombudsman Service as brendanm pointed out above

  • JimmyF on 05/04/2020 - 20:56
    +1

    COVID-19 was all over the news in March, so its buyer beware.

  • try2bhelpful on 05/04/2020 - 21:52

    You need to be a little careful here as it is against the T&Cs that you can’t sell to random strangers. If you piss this person off, too much, they might decide to report you to Virgin. It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face but they might do it.particularly if you have a history of selling points.

  • ammigga on 05/04/2020 - 22:12

    Thanks everyone for your comments.

    I wanted to make sure that I was on the right track, given I have only sold on OzB forums a couple of times previously. Based on your comments, this supports the view that I've made the right decision in line with the spirit of the OzB classifieds.

    Whilst I try to be a compassionate person in my day to day life, unfortunately most if not all of us are struggling with the current situation facing the world, individually and in our local communities.

    If I hadn't of sold the points to this buyer, I would have listed them and likely would have sold them otherwise in early March.

    Once again, thanks everyone and this discussion is complete from my point of view of advice requested :).

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 05/04/2020 - 22:25

    Selling or bartering points is against the terms and conditions, as @try2bhelpful points out.

    If the buyer did get upset and has nothing to lose, s/he could report you and have both theirs and you account closed and all points foreited, and if you have any elite status - you can say bye bye to that as well.

    • xuqi on 05/04/2020 - 23:58
      +1

      It's all good, Virgin may go down anyway so better OP keeps the $.

    • Baysew on 06/04/2020 - 10:11
      +7

      OP responded to an ad for a person wanting to buy points.

  • MontyMacaw on 06/04/2020 - 09:58

    Sounds like the guy that came into my bar years ago and asked for the money back that he lost on our pokies.

    He can buy petrol at BP with them up to $60 at a time can’t he? Not that he should get any advice….

    • kerfuffle on 06/04/2020 - 10:01
      +1

      BP stopped their partnership with Velocity at the end of January.

  • Ghost47 on 06/04/2020 - 11:06

    Tell him/her you'll by them back for a dollar.

  • rompastompa on 06/04/2020 - 11:20

    Juicy.

    Subscribed

  • HeWhoKnows on 06/04/2020 - 15:36

    The buyer got the points for the price they were willing to pay. What they do with the points is up to them. Nothing wrong with the points and can be used to purchase other items. But PayPal sides with the buyer.
    In future AVOID PAYPAL as form of payment.

  • ammigga on 30/04/2020 - 00:59
    +7

    Update

    Hi everyone, Paypal has now closed this case in my favour. Thanks for your advice on the forum.

    In relation to the evidence provided, I included screenshots of all correspondence with the buyer and of my Velocity account showing the transfer of points. This appeared to be sufficient to show the item was received and was as described.

    FYI Paypal does not provide reasons how they arrived at their decision, although this may be able to be requested.

    • anglais on 30/04/2020 - 11:59

      Thanks for the update. Glad to see common sense can prevail even with PayPal.

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