Need Help Choosing nbn HFC Router

StevenUniverse on 07/03/2020 - 20:59
Last edited 07/03/2020 - 20:59

Hi hi,

We're about to move into a townhouse and according to nbn it has an HFC connection.

My knowledge of routers is zip, so looking for a bit of guidance in choosing a router.
The Google Mesh seems nice, especially with the in-app functions — Though that's the everyday consumer in me speaking.

About the property
1 of 2 attached townhouses (est. 20m long)
2 stories
3 bedrooms
9-12 devices

Would like it to reach the detached garage that's about 5m from the back of the house.
Also probably looking at 100/40 speeds.

Thanks for any help!

Internet

Comments

  • WoodYouLikeSomeCash on 07/03/2020 - 21:39
    +7

    NetGear Orbi’s, they are Tri-Band.

    • StevenUniverse on 07/03/2020 - 22:20

      Thanks, definitely worth considering.

      Weird how Tri-Band is a unique feature, I would've thought they all worked in this manner.

    • GaryG on 08/03/2020 - 19:39

      Definitely the way to go.

    • BuDWiZe on 09/03/2020 - 08:13
      +2

      I'm a NBN HFC tech and I use Netgear orbi in my 2 storey place for my HFC connection and they are great . Currently have about 20 devices connected with my lifx lights

      • stalker878 on 09/03/2020 - 22:30

        Which part of the hfc connection do you work at? Noticed you are in Brisbane too.
        I am having issues getting nbn connected,hoping to get an insider advise. Thanks.

        • BuDWiZe on 09/03/2020 - 22:33

          I do the installation of ntd/repairs ext

          • stalker878 on 10/03/2020 - 11:14
            -3

            @BuDWiZe: are you able to look up whats holding up a hfc connection?
            its gone from june 2020 to "it will be ready in 6-12 months"
            no joy from emailing the complains desk.

            • BuDWiZe on 11/03/2020 - 07:51

              @stalker878: I don't have access to that part of the system. Nor sure what part of bris you are in but most are now active from Sandgate through to Indooroopilly for bus and another contract is from there through to gold coast

    • serideth on 09/03/2020 - 13:50
      +1

      Hmm don't know how much of that is marketing hype, especially since in their own datasheets it lists 1x 2.4Ghz radio and 2x identical 5Ghz radios with one of the 5ghz being the dedicated backhaul between the units. So technically this is a standard dual band router.

      Not to knock it as I have no personal experience, and based on reviews it seems to be a very capable system. It is priced as a premium option, actually it's getting pretty close to a Unifi setup.

      Also most modern AC routers should easily max out 100mbps internet which is only about 10MBps.

      • N1NJ4W4RR10R on 03/07/2020 - 10:06

        That's the point of tri band mesh routers - instead of having the 5ghz band dealing with everything you have one band dedicated to the mesh and the others completely freed up.

  • Satirical on 07/03/2020 - 22:06

    Depends on where your router will be as well, is it going to be at the very front or centrally located? If it's centrally located, you're only looking at 10-15m distance through a few walls so I think you'd be fine without having to resort to having multiple routers and relying on a mesh network.

    What's your budget?

    • StevenUniverse on 07/03/2020 - 22:22

      Hmm good point. The study is at the front of the house — so I would assume that the connection has been placed there but I would have to double check.

      Budget wise, around $3-500?

      • Satirical on 07/03/2020 - 22:38
        +4

        That's plenty then, would be much more trouble if it was <$100. IMO, I've had better experiences with Asus routers which also allow you to add another router (could be a cheapie AC68u for example) to work in a mesh network to extend range. The option of Merlin firmware is also great for customization and if you decide to run VPNs through the router itself.

        Asus RT-AC86u as the main router for ~$222 (open box new) or $264 (brand new) on eBay. If you feel like you'd want to extend your network, add a cheaper RT-AC68u for a mesh network ($140 on eBay)

        EDIT: Should also mention, HFC connections to a lot of these ISPs seem to be PPPoE based (need your username/password) and VLAN Tagging (which means you need to set it to 2 or 100 depending on your ISP). Spent 30 minutes wondering why my connection wasn't working when it was just an easy config thing that isn't mentioned unless you search for it.

        • ElderyMan on 08/03/2020 - 09:09
          -4

          What PPPoE are you talking about? The NBN tech person will setup your NBN connection box and you only need to connect your wifi router by Ethernet cable. No any login/password/etc credentials are needed.
          I think you’re messing up HFC with ADSL connections.

          • acoma on 08/03/2020 - 10:43

            @ElderyMan: That is wrong Elderlyman. Although IPoE is the end goal, it is a lot of work to get right first time. Pppoe works fine and all ISPs had it anyway so it is easier and quicker to reuse.

          • Satirical on 08/03/2020 - 11:13
            +2

            @ElderyMan: I have HFC through TPG and it is PPPoE+VLAN tagging, I didn't think that'd be the case considering it's DOCSIS 3.1 for its HFC network but it is. In Canada, it just syncs my modem and connecting my router without the need of entering anything but that's not the case here in Australia, you need to enter your username at the very least such that it coincides with your address. EDIT: I think some ISPs may be different. Some may just use VLAN tagging and it seems a few don't do anything at all?

            PPPoE credentials & VLAN Tagging:
            https://www.tpg.com.au/support/nbn/generalsetting
            https://community.tpg.com.au/t5/TPG-Community-Feedback/Setti…

            There's a lot of misinformation out there especially when you have ignorant moderators on TPG who don't even know anything about the network who help spread the misinformation:
            i.e. https://community.tpg.com.au/t5/Modems-and-Devices/ASUS-RT-A…
            User asks about compatibility of AC-5300 for HFC, first moderator tells him that NBN doesn't work like that and that his router is incompatible. Clearly just needed to set PPPoE and VLAN tagging to work. What sucks is they keep referring to the router as modem as well when the only modem in HFC is the NBN-owned terminal box/connection box or whatever asinine term they decided to give it rather than label it specifically as a modem for HFC purposes.

            • JoeSoap on 08/03/2020 - 12:30

              @Satirical: that may be true for TPG but I'm with superloop on a HFC in a townhouse and I too do not need any credentials to connect. My router just plugs into the HFC terminated box and works.

              • Twix on 08/03/2020 - 14:43
                +1

                @JoeSoap: Yeah that's because Superloop use IPoE automatic connection on the nbn.

            • Twix on 08/03/2020 - 14:35
              +2

              @Satirical: There are a few ISPs that use IPoE automatic connection on the nbn. Optus, Aussie Broadband & Telstra to name a few.

              nbn NTD (network termination device).

            • BuDWiZe on 09/03/2020 - 08:46
              +1

              @Satirical: Pissed me of at work with isps constanly referring to routers as modems confusing the shit out of people and having me waste my time explaining everything

          • Twix on 08/03/2020 - 14:27
            +2

            @ElderyMan: PPPoE logins are needed for nbn HFC with TPG & iiNet.

            • ElderyMan on 10/03/2020 - 07:49
              +1

              @Twix: Thanks. I am using AussieBB and thought that these days the PPPoE archaic authentication is all gone with NBN. The comments above just confirm that the use of AussieBB for my home was a very right decision :)

              • Twix on 10/03/2020 - 11:24
                +1

                @ElderyMan: Maybe one day PPPoE logins will disappear. IPoE is much better :)

                • ElderyMan on 10/03/2020 - 15:39
                  +1

                  @Twix: Sure, simplicity is what the customers want. I've only seen PPPoE in Australia on ADSL connections over the last 5 years. Most of places in Europe already were on IPoE.

        • StevenUniverse on 08/03/2020 - 13:07

          Thanks, I'll take a look into the Asus routers you've listed.

          To be honest I'm not sure what PPPoE or VLAN is haha, so i'll have to do a bit of reading.

          I'm more drawn to the orbi and google mesh at the moment for the perceived usability out of the box… though that could just be marketing?

          • Twix on 08/03/2020 - 14:41
            +2

            @StevenUniverse: I'll save you the research. Tell me your ISP.

            The Orbi and Google are easy to setup. The phone app guides you through in a few steps.

            • StevenUniverse on 08/03/2020 - 21:21

              @Twix: Thanks Twix!

              I'm thinking about either AussieBB or Superloop. Would you recommend one over the other?

              • Twix on 08/03/2020 - 21:29
                +1

                @StevenUniverse: Aussie Broadband and Superloop use IPoE automatic connection on the nbn. Speed wise there about the same. Aussie Broadband have better support.

            • Maxdax on 09/03/2020 - 20:34

              @Twix: Hi Twix - my ISP barefoot - they are coming to connect tomorrow - HFC. I have ASUS RTAC 68U. I’m a complete noob with all this - what settings would I need pls, any help is appreciated. I received an email from ISP which mentioned PPPoe and username / password but nothing else. TIA (sorry to jump in your thread OP)

              • Twix on 09/03/2020 - 20:50
                +1

                @Maxdax: Select PPPoE & put your Barefoot account username/password settings in the ASUS router. Do you know how to login to the ASUS router to change the settings?

                • Maxdax on 09/03/2020 - 21:24

                  @Twix: Yes - I’ve figured that out lol. Do you think I need to play with VLAN tagging and how do I know if I need 2 or 100. Thanks mate!

                  • Twix on 09/03/2020 - 21:32
                    +1

                    @Maxdax: Nah don't change the VLAN default settings for Barefoot. How you know what number to enter or not is in the ISP user guide.

                    • Maxdax on 09/03/2020 - 21:50
                      +1

                      @Twix: Thanks mate appreciate it!

  • Amaris on 07/03/2020 - 22:52
    +1

    When you get a new connection the provider usually throws one in. The router Telstra provides seems to be pretty good. Has 4G backup for when the NBN connection goes down as well

    • resisting the urge on 07/03/2020 - 23:16

      I find they all charge for routers, somehow.

      Eg.
      1. If you sign a contract, they will give you some standard ISP thing. Break the contract, and you will be asked to pay through the nose for 'the thing', and no, the won't happily take it back.
      2. Most providers give you the cheapest 'thing'. Telstra's are ok, esp w the 4G backup, but have been 'polluted' with out of date binaries, Telstra poorware, orphaned features and hidden config, external mis-management, etc. Not that many other providers are much better
      3. If you port from one NBN provider to another, the cheap plans are all BYO router, (or pay extra for a new one), unless you sign a contract (go back to #1)
      4. Re the modem, which on HFC must be the one NBN provides. If you happen to get a Modem that is not the one NBN installed at your HFC site, it will not negotiate with NBN and come online (so no matter if you use IP or PPPoE, your router will not authenticate with your ISP).

      • Amaris on 07/03/2020 - 23:59
        +1
        1. The modem Tesltra gives seems quite well regarded, especially for a non-techie in a small townhouse. It's free if you're with Telstra for 2 years or 216/- from them. Sealed units are on eBay regularly for $60.
        2. Orphaned features, hidden config, etc. are hardly likely to bother the general customer
        3. For NBN via HFC, one HAS to use NBN's (Arris) connection box which is the modem. It stays with the house and is ISP independent. Not sure what you're trying to say.
  • p1 ama on 07/03/2020 - 23:49
    +1

    Ubiquiti Dream Machine - https://www.pccasegear.com/products/48470?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqY3z…

    If you don't want to fuss around with consumer grade stuff and step up to equipment used in small businesses, I'd suggest going this route.

    • No Username on 08/03/2020 - 09:00

      Quick question. I was also looking at buying this product, but we still use a home phone. Is it possible to buy an RJ11 to RJ45 VOIP adapter to make it work? Thanks.

      • KitchenSink on 08/03/2020 - 11:54
        +2

        Adapters should work fine, its just another 'device' on the network. Althought I've always had bad expereince with them like the Cisco ones. Your experience by differ.

        Ended up buying a Gigaset VoIP phone - works way better

        • No Username on 08/03/2020 - 20:42

          Thanks. Just to confirm I am currently using a DECT handset with an RJ11 connected to the main base and to the modem/router. But buying a new handset with support for VOIP with an RJ45 connection should be able to pick up the configuration by optus and work like a regular DECT handset right?

          • KitchenSink on 08/03/2020 - 21:01
            +1

            @No Username: Not sure. I have no experience with Optus. Best to reach out to them but I'm sure they will push you to their terrible Sagemcom routers.

            iiNet and ABB were easily done with Gigaset VoIP phones. Just some configurations needed on the VoIP device like setting up an internet connection.

          • Twix on 08/03/2020 - 21:47

            @No Username: Optus use their own router to deliver VoIP on nbn.

            Use a VSP - Crazytel, MaxoTel, Siptalk & MyNetFone to name a few.

      • p1 ama on 08/03/2020 - 12:25
        +1

        Agree with the comment above - you're best off going with a VoIP phone.

    • StevenUniverse on 08/03/2020 - 13:05

      What are some of the benefits of a more commercial grade device?

      • p1 ama on 08/03/2020 - 18:28
        +2

        Reliability is the biggest difference. But also better performance, more flexibility and custom settings, more expandability…etc.

      • Yorkshire-Man on 08/03/2020 - 21:07
        +3

        Can't say I would buy this for this price.

        For this price buy a mesh network, you can get three access points which you position around the house giving perfect wifi. If you have thick walls these are excellent.

        Recently installed this at a mates house, super easy to setup and perfect wifi across the house:-

        https://store.google.com/au/product/nest_wifi

        • markmeister92 on 09/03/2020 - 09:39
          +1

          Second that. Totally recommend it for the ease of set up and big increase in wifi range and strength.

  • ssquid on 08/03/2020 - 00:34
    +3

    Note that not all routers are equal, if you sign up with Internode/iiNet/TPG it will need to support VLAN tagging.

    • StevenUniverse on 08/03/2020 - 13:01

      I was thinking of either AussieBB or Superloop. I saw that Superloop required eWAN? I'm not really sure what that is to be honest haha

      • su3050 on 09/03/2020 - 06:35
        +1

        I'm with Superloop on HFC, after switching from ABB. Support response and app/tooling is better with ABB, but if you have a stable connection that probably won't matter much.

  • Hirolol on 08/03/2020 - 11:26
    +3

    I have google mesh
    It works great over long distance and double story

  • GTR12 on 08/03/2020 - 12:22

    With a $500 budget, you could look at the new'ish AX routers, its a new standard and whilst your devices may not use them now, they will in the future.

    Then again, I don't replace my router often (I keep mine for 7-10 yrs at a time), you might be different.

    • StevenUniverse on 08/03/2020 - 13:03

      Do you have any AX routers you recommend looking at? I think I'd hold on to my router for 5-10 years.

      My current router I've had for about 5 years and it was from my then provider.

      • GTR12 on 08/03/2020 - 14:39
        +1

        These are expensive, just be warned;

        The entry model - https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/netgear-nighthawk-ax4-4-s…

        The mid-range - https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/netgear-nighthawk-ax8-8-s…

        Personally I'd go the mid-range, not just because it looks like a Star Wars fighter, but the MU-MIMO supports 4 simultaneous connections, it may not mean much to the average user, but its awesome.

      • Twix on 08/03/2020 - 14:58
        +2

        The ASUS RT-AX88U Dual Band 802.11ax WiFi Router is a good choice.

        • StevenUniverse on 08/03/2020 - 21:26

          Would you recommend the RT-AX88U over the Orbi?

          • Twix on 08/03/2020 - 21:31

            @StevenUniverse: Which Orbi are you comparing the ASUS with?

            • StevenUniverse on 08/03/2020 - 22:31

              @Twix: Two ac3000?

              • Twix on 08/03/2020 - 22:59

                @StevenUniverse: The Orbi product name is RBK50 and AC3000 refers to the wireless speeds.

                If you have to worry about the routers design get the Orbi.

                If you want Ethernet ports upstairs and downstairs get the Orbi.

                If you can get the Orbi on sale get that.

                If there is no sale and both are at the same price of $500 get the ASUS.

                • StevenUniverse on 08/03/2020 - 23:01
                  +1

                  @Twix: Thanks Twix!

                  • UNO on 09/03/2020 - 10:17
                    +1

                    @StevenUniverse: I bought the standard router for the Aussie Broadband but found coverage was average at best on my home. I went for the Orbi RBK50 and haven't looked back. Note I don't have a landline.

  • ozbs25 on 08/03/2020 - 16:15

    Are you getting a landline as part of your package? Some ISPs make it so that you have to use their modem/router if you want to use landline. TPG is one of them. I had to cancel my landline when I changed over to my own modem/router.

    • GTR12 on 08/03/2020 - 18:50

      You don't have to cancel, the landline is free. I'm with TPG and I still have my landline number, there's nothing connected on my end, but I still have the number.

      • ozbs25 on 08/03/2020 - 18:56

        Ah, yeah, sorry I got the add on call package at first. When I got the new router I cancelled that option.

  • gregsurname on 08/03/2020 - 20:36
    +2

    For an all-in-one, the Asus options seem to be popular.

    I went for an Edgerouter X and a separate UniFi AP.

  • ShortyX on 08/03/2020 - 21:50

    Netgear R8000 for $280

  • djmm on 09/03/2020 - 07:47
    +3

    Google mesh 3 pack is great. So easy to setup, no messing about with stuff.

  • solidussnake on 09/03/2020 - 08:42

    I use a Netgear Nighthawlk R7000 for about $200 works well on my two story house, also on superloop but the 50/20 plan no problems

  • bjdchwr on 09/03/2020 - 12:10

    Edgerouter X is a good choice and they are super affordable.
    I used to use Edgerouter X and put them in dual WAN mode back to the days when I was on slower ADSL and Vividwireless.
    Now I have moved to software routers like Untangle or pfSense - that provide me with unbeatable traffic control, daily report and VPN capabilities.

    I am still using Apple Time Capsule as my AP only device but I would move to mesh system in the future. I will wait for WiFi 6 then.

  • serpentxx on 09/03/2020 - 12:11

    I wouldnt recommend netgear, i had too many issues with dropouts with a nighthawk router.

    Got an asus rt-ac88u and its been rock solid
    my parents have a cheaper asus and they are happy too

    • ShortyX on 09/03/2020 - 19:51

      I recommend netgear, i had too many issues with dropouts with a nighthawk router.

      No issues with our R8000 on FTTP.

      Which model did you have?

      • serpentxx on 10/03/2020 - 14:54

        Think it was a D7800, I might have had a faulty model or something, did firmware updates, factory reset it, tried it on my parents FTTN and my HFC and the issues never went away

        • Wifi drops in/out every 10mins
        • Would take so long for it to find an internet connection when rebooting, would actually time out a few times before finally finding a connection.

        My last resort was to install OpenWRT or something but i gave up and got the Asus RT-ac88u for the 8 ethernet ports as i just networked my house, like i said has been rock solid

  • JuryWheel on 09/03/2020 - 14:29

    Woqee, had no idea so many people wanted to spend that kind of money on a router for home…I was thinking about a replacement at some point but was hoping $100-120 would get something decent…

    • Amaris on 09/03/2020 - 15:11

      It would

    • Twix on 09/03/2020 - 15:18

      $100-120 is entry level but it probably will be ok if you have basic requirements. $150-200 is a better price point.

  • Rodo on 09/03/2020 - 20:08
    +3

    Have you sorted out the router yet? If not then you should buy a Telstra Smart Modem DJA0240. They can be bought barely used 2nd hand for $20 on Gumtree or ebay.

    I have HFC. Have a similar house and set up to you. I had an TP Link Archer C9. It died a few months ago. Was looking for a replacement and was recommended the DJA0230 on Whirlpool. Wasn't too sure it would do the job but for $20 it was worth a try.

    And it's been far superior to my old modem. So easy to set up and get going. Definitely worth it.

    There's lots of info about it on Whirlpool if you're interested.

    • alvian on 10/03/2020 - 02:13
      +2

      I picked up 3 of them from Officeworks Tech Recycle bin last week. Haven't a time to check and hack them but they all turned on with the correct LEDs. One was brand new, still wrapped. Link them up with cables. Totally recommend this for big increase in wifi range and strength. 😛

      • JuryWheel on 10/03/2020 - 10:30

        Where do you find the tech recyle bin…?

        • alvian on 10/03/2020 - 13:37

          Varies by the branch so you'll need to ask. Usually at the back near the loading dock. My local used to have a skip bin there but now the "goodies" are simply placed in a pile on the ground or on an unused pallet. Some branches don't have enough space to offer recycling.

    • JuryWheel on 10/03/2020 - 10:34

      Im on HFC - just checking with these, they are a modem and router together..? Do i still use the modem i was supplied by nbnco..?
      EDIT - also, is it a DJA0230 or DJA0240..?

      • abctoz on 10/03/2020 - 10:40
        +1

        the modem supplied by nbn has a HFC coaxial input and outputs ethernet, which plugs in to the "wan" port of the router. its the 230 i'm using one ;)

      • Rodo on 10/03/2020 - 11:15
        +1

        Oops yes it is the DJA0230. It can work as a modem and router but I just use it as a router. You still use the nbnco supplied modem and then just connect the Telstra smart modem after this with a LAN cable. It's PNP and very easy to get going. There's lots of useful info on Whirlpool about it including a link to a manual.

        I was thinking I'd have to get a $200 to $300 router or mesh system but this has been so good with a much better wifi range over my old router. It runs on 2.4 and 5 GHz wifi bands and has 4G backup if the NBN is not working.

      • Twix on 10/03/2020 - 11:33

        The modem part of the DJA0230 will be disabled. Only the DJA0230 wifi router will be used with the nbn HFC NTD.

    • abctoz on 10/03/2020 - 10:37

      they're quite capable for sure, retailed for ~$200 when they were in use…

      and ditto with TP link routers, had one die on me too and i'm done with them

  • ameno on 10/03/2020 - 12:16
    +1

    Tried the Nighthawk AX4 and was extremely disappointed with it.

    Got my hands on a TP-Link Archer C5400 and have to say that it is an absolute weapon with Wifi coverage throughout our house and across our entire block (600sqm) with the router sitting on the upper level in our Queenslander.

    Currently going for a great price on AmazonAU: https://www.amazon.com.au/TP-Link-Archer-C5400-TP-link-Route…

  • The Gent on 10/03/2020 - 13:10

    I'm lazy and just sign up to the 2 years with iiNet and get the free modem.

  • morpheous on 10/03/2020 - 18:14

    I am in the same situation! Can someone please help me as well? (dont wanna start a new forum).

    I am in a 2 bedroom apartment. Getting Superloop 50mbps plan, need a HFC WAN router.

    • gimme on 10/03/2020 - 21:31
      +2

      Same situation = same comments should apply

  • Warchest on 11/03/2020 - 00:38
    +1

    I'm on 50mbps HFC and have a Tp-link c3150 and has been pretty damn good, great range.
    But I'd be tempted to get the C5400 above at that price.

  • pe197 on 11/03/2020 - 01:16

    Loved my Netgear R7000 but that got fried by a lightning power surge. Tried out Linksys EA9500 (massive footprint, great wifi speeds and 8 Ethernet ports but not very good web interface)- 8 antennas was overkill.

    Now have a Synology RT2600ac which I think is just right. Only 4 Ethernet ports but has in built adblocking (no longer need rPi-Hole taking up a port) and nice but powerful web interface. [but ~$320 and this is Ozbargain…]

  • Laziofogna on 30/05/2020 - 11:28

    Sorry for adding to this so late, will the router I have now for Adsl (optus Sagemcom 3864v3ac) work with the HFC Nbn available now in my area?

    • Twix on 30/05/2020 - 17:29
      +1

      Yeah it does. Reviews of it are average. Personally I would upgrade.

      • Laziofogna on 30/05/2020 - 17:31

        Thanks for your answer. Yes, I am thinking of changing I asked to know if I could start with that without having to accept the one the provider will try to sell me.

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