Car Accident - Need Advice (Have No Insurance)

Linvader992 on 17/02/2020 - 20:55
Last edited 18/02/2020 - 10:18 by 1 other user

HI guys

Hope everyone is in good health. I need some honest advice as i am stuck in between some unlucky circumstances. i borrowed my friend's car and had a minor accident with someone on the road. It was my fault, the damage was not much, nothing happened to my car and the other car had the paint off from the bumper which was hardly noticeable.i probably hit him at 30 km/h. Even the bumper didn't lose its clips or anything.
Now the problem is , the other person claimed through his insurance and the car i was driving didn't had insurance. I got a call today from AAMi insurance to pay the car i had accident with, its a astra 2005. The insurance company made it a write-off. The problem now is they want me to pay 4500$. which is way too much?!
AAMI insurance claims its expensive to repair the car and that is why they write it off. I have a video proof of the accident site and i took the video for this sake because i know the insurance can be dodgy. My self i am a car lover, and i know what is write off and how this works. I am not familiar with the insurances companies policies. In the report they also claimed the car has light rear damage and wobbling. Now this wobbling is added on top which has nothing to do with the car accident.

My question is how do i deal with this situation? Can i take them to court? how can i save some money on this matter.

Automotive

Comments

      • psychojimmy on 19/02/2020 - 08:15

        Insurer that pays out owns the salvage and can sell it on. They should deduct any salvage from what they’re recovering from the OP.

  • nomoneynoproblems on 17/02/2020 - 22:10
    +35

    They're taking you for a ride because they know you have no insurance. Fight it out. Ask for line item receipts of potential work and how they got that figure. They will back pedal real quick. Source: I did it when I was young and poor and rear tapped a corolla.

    • John Kimble on 17/02/2020 - 23:07
      +1

      I'm as cynical as anyone, but would insurers stoop so low as to dishonestly over quote or (illegally?) fabricate damage to uninsured parties to try and fleece them? I mean they already fleece the policy holders with their premiums and excesses etc

      • mskeggs on 18/02/2020 - 06:30
        +17

        My partner backed into a parked car, bent the number plate.
        Itemised quote from the other party’s insurer included stone chips on the side arches and curb rash on the rims.
        She called and whinged and they dropped the silly stuff.
        I figure the other party found a repairer happy to add some items, assuming we would just let insurance handle it and never look into it.

      • ripesashimi on 18/02/2020 - 11:27

        over quote or (illegally?) fabricate damage to uninsured parties

        That's their job description. And by the way, its not illegal. It happens all day every day at Local Courts. Have a look for yourself it can be mind opening to some. The quote is provided by an assessor and everyone has their own assessor. A scratch can cost $500 at one shop and $2000 at another shop. If a scratch spreads to 3 or 4 panels, the cost multiplies. If there's a disagremeent with a quote, both sides aside a single expert. However, to get to that stage, you have to cough up legal fees.

        The way I see it, they assign responsibility to their expert, which is the assessor of the smash repair shop that they choose. Will the court go after the assessor who advises an overestimated quote? No way. That would mean sucking at your job is illegal. But they can lower the quote to whatever they deem fit. Same with GP's advise in CTP claims. You neck got hurt in a car accident. One GP says you are fine. Another says you are unable to work. Is have a different professional opinion malpractice? No way.

        • netjock on 18/02/2020 - 13:05

          Also the reason why issuance keeps on going up. Because everyone is escalating the cost.

          • resisting the urge on 23/02/2020 - 08:58

            @netjock: Except it is the insurance companies that constantly increase their operations costs, dividends and assets. Computers have automated a lot of what they used to do. The armies in the backoffices are gone. Revenues are instead used to buy other companies, expand operations, pay higher executive salaries, more lobbyists and lawyers to make greater efforts to reduce (their) risk by getting regulations changed, and writing agreements that prevent liability and put more hoops in the claims process. In the end they all get paid to insure you against bogeymen- ie things that just don't ever really happen.

            That you need it because you don't want to pay for a crunching a new luxury car is all they need right now. Insurance to help you deal with day to day accidents? That they can still continuously work to reduce avoid, reduce and refuse.

            Oh, and charge more for ;-)

        • johnno07 on 18/02/2020 - 17:18
          +7

          Fabricating damage to dishonestly get money out of someone else is absolutely illegal - it's called fraud. Proving it is another story, but don't go around saying it's legal.

    • Nebargains on 18/02/2020 - 18:21
      +1

      Something doesn't add up here, I would love to see the video.

      I was recently rear ended and pushed into the car in front, significant damage to the rear bumper, the boot, wheel well, some structure underneath, not to mention damage to the front where a tow bar went through and my car was not a write-off despite being insured for <10k.

      When I got the car back I asked how much it cost to repair, they told me about $5k.

  • pegaxs on 17/02/2020 - 22:21
    -1

    the car i was driving didn't had insurance.

    *yawn*

    • johnno07 on 18/02/2020 - 17:49

      Pretty much.

  • JimmyF on 17/02/2020 - 22:37
    -8

    My question is how do i deal with this situation?

    Nothing, you did the damage, pay the $4500 and move on.

    Hopefully you learnt your lesson, that in this country, you're best to have insurance and that the dollar sign goes on the left side of the number.

    Thanks for coming and playing the ozbargain, got no insurance game.

  • invader992 on 17/02/2020 - 22:38
    +1

    https://imgur.com/a/MXoRoyV

    • [Deactivated] on 17/02/2020 - 23:11
      +17

      2005 camera?

      • kahn on 17/02/2020 - 23:38
        +20

        It's an enlarged jpeg image of a screen capture from a 200x320 quicktime video taken two seconds before the actual impact by someone with Parkinson's disease.

      • bobbified on 18/02/2020 - 00:57

        nah.. just a potato

    • Nebargains on 18/02/2020 - 18:22

      Is that a photo of the damage? How is that a write off?

      • iDroid on 18/02/2020 - 21:00
        +1

        It's a 2005 Astra?

  • invader992 on 17/02/2020 - 22:41

    I would be happy to pay $4500, the problem is i don't see what i am paying for. If you guys are getting offended by my post, i am SORRY

    • apsilon on 18/02/2020 - 07:20
      +9

      You're paying for the damage you did to the other car. How is this not obvious?

      This is called an economic write off. It's when the costs of the repair are equal to or greater than the value of the car. They have every write to return the vehicle to the condition it was in before the accident. It doesn't matter that the damage is "hardly noticeable", the fact is there is damage. You have no way of knowing what the damage was, you're guessing, obviously incorrectly, that there was little damage. The bumper skin was obviously damaged, it's likely some brackets were also bent, clips damaged, energy absorbing material crushed and needs to be replaced and from the wobble claim suspension at the very least knocked out of alignment but likely also damaged.

      Either take it to court where you will end up having to pay costs on top or just pay it and take it as a learning experience.

      • invader992 on 18/02/2020 - 09:03
        +2

        i see, thank-you for the advice.

      • mrvaluepack on 19/02/2020 - 07:33
        +1

        No way is bumper damage a write off. Either op is lying about overall damage or insurance company is taking op for a ride.

        • Skramit on 19/02/2020 - 09:09
          +1

          Replacement bumper (and potentially other panels/parts which were damaged by the bumper compression, labor and respraying can easily total $4 or $5k.

          I had my rear bumper hit (a skoda) by another driver once and repairs were about $9k because the rear side panels also took some of the force and needed replacing and respraying. Other drivers insurance took the repairer to court and lost, magistrate ruled $9k was fair and reasonable. Repairer got their $9k.

          • Drakesy on 19/02/2020 - 11:55
            +3

            @Skramit: Debatable, bumpers are dime a dozen, $500 + $300 re-spray + ~$300 for refitting.
            ~$1,050
            I reckon the insurer's trying to take the OP for a ride, unless the OP has actually cracked/pushed in the sub frame, that could be a bit more exxy.

    • Zachary on 18/02/2020 - 10:13

      the problem is i don't see what i am paying for

      Read

    • belongsinforums on 19/02/2020 - 21:54

      you have made someone carless. that's a huge inconvenience and may cause loss of income

  • Banana on 17/02/2020 - 22:53
    -1

    Are you 100% sure you were not covered? RACV or wherever you're from would cover anyone who can legally be on the road (including visitors).

    I am afraid you are out of options, as other fees (court, lawyer, your effort) would quickly add up to over $4500.

    Take it as an expensive reason and do not EVER EVER touch a car without any insurance, especially others. Always ask to see the insurance policy if in doubt.

  • Halo375 on 17/02/2020 - 23:01

    Pay. Learn. Grow.

  • thrillhouse on 18/02/2020 - 07:19
    +13

    Be thankful you didn’t run into a Ferrari.

    • Ozpit on 18/02/2020 - 09:47
      +9

      … or through someone’s front fence, into their lounge room and over their new Sony 85-inch Z9G 8K TV.

    • ankor on 18/02/2020 - 18:26
      +1

      Or Tesla, service station, power pole etc

  • backpaqer on 18/02/2020 - 08:12
    +3

    Next time have insurance

  • Dougaldog on 18/02/2020 - 08:28
    +1

    I’d say the cost of repair includes hard to source items which would bump (no pun intended) the price right up. But definitely get an itemised list of items from the insurance policy. And let us know how you go. Good luck!

  • invader992 on 18/02/2020 - 09:00
    +1

    according to ppsr report for "I05A" which means ( I is impact) , (0 is rear right , 5 is rear left) and A means( heavy damage). the point is the accident is not severe at all, its should be considered light damage.

    • Porker on 18/02/2020 - 10:20
      +4

      Simple question - are you a mechanic or a damaged-vehicle assessor or have any professionally recognised qualification to determine that the car is NOT severely damaged?

      If not, then unfortunately it doesn't matter what you think - it appears you're just trying to justify to yourself that you shouldn't have to pay the required amount.

  • askme69 on 18/02/2020 - 09:42
    +7

    As for damage. I had a hit in the rear in my Ausi. Looked like a bumper repaint and a clip was all that was needed.

    Turned out the bumper intrusion was gone and the boot floor had bucklwd.

    $8k to fix. The P-Plater didn't have insurance.

    • Skramit on 19/02/2020 - 09:10
      +1

      This happened to me too. $9k repair for a rear bumper and respray etc to my car. Other drivers insurer (RACV) took the repairer to court and lost. Magistrate sided with repairer.

  • Findo on 18/02/2020 - 10:02

    i know what is write off and how this works.

    I am not familiar with the insurances companies policies.

    So which one is it?

  • Oz8argain on 18/02/2020 - 10:10
    +1

    nothing happened to my car and the other car had the paint off from the bumper which was hardly noticeable
    The insurance company made it a write-off

    Wow must be some expensive paint

    • funnysht on 19/02/2020 - 12:07
      +1

      The paint held it together

  • cainen on 18/02/2020 - 11:31
    -3

    Some years ago when I was first dating (my now) wife she was stupidly driving uninsured and ran up the back of a POS, already beat-up Toyota HiAce. The HiAce owner wanted her to give him $2k cash to avoid him going through insurance which she refused as it seemed absurd for the sh!tbox she'd hit. Some months later we received an insurance claim from NRMA requesting us to pay $3600. I suspect they never fixed the HiAce and that they were in cahoots with their smash repairer mate but what can you if you're at fault? I put together a sob story and ended up settling with NRMA for $2k.

    That's probably your only option here. Try to negotiate a lower settlement with AAMI. Sometimes they just want to get it over with and off their books.

    • funnysht on 19/02/2020 - 12:02
      +5

      So your wife was the one who was driving unsured and then you fabricate a sob story aka. insurance fraud to avoid paying a higher amount
      and you call the car you hit the POS ???

      Really. POS. -__-

      • cainen on 19/02/2020 - 12:07
        -1

        I called his car a POS not the guy…and the spiel was about her financial circumstances not about the accident itself…

        • funnysht on 19/02/2020 - 12:08
          • edited it to car. Lying to an insurance company about financial circumstances to obtain a financial advantage is the very definition of fraud.
          • cainen on 19/02/2020 - 12:13
            -1

            @funnysht: Never said it was a made up story. Let me re-phrase what I said to be less offensive to the sensitive.

            I negotiated a lower settlement amount for her based on her financial circumstances.

    • smartazz104 on 19/02/2020 - 17:22

      What piece of shit was she driving, I mean it must have been a load of rubbish since she didn't have insurance on it.

    • imurgod on 20/02/2020 - 07:43

      This is actually true. There is a high likelihood that the insurer will negotiate a settlement with you.

  • OzHunterNSW on 18/02/2020 - 11:35
    +3

    Just pay the other vehicles repair cost

    • funnysht on 19/02/2020 - 12:10

      ^ should be the only post in this thread.

  • trapper on 18/02/2020 - 11:37

    Get a few quotes for 2005 Astra and offer that amount to settle.

    Otherwise just pay the $4500.

    • Lichen6420 on 19/02/2020 - 15:51
      +1

      Agreed… negotiate a settlement, don't be a afraid to push their bluff a little. They don't want to go to court for 4k as it does cost them money to do this, it is a simple cost recovery exercise for them. Remember you can offer to pay in full on any given day before court and they will accept.

      This is between you and the insurer now. Forget the other driver.

  • SeVeN11 on 18/02/2020 - 11:40
    -3

    Find the right price for the car.
    Then buy that car from the insurer.
    Sell that car to reduce your cost.

  • cloudy on 18/02/2020 - 11:47
    +1

    If they are writing off the car and paying the other party the $4500( assumed agreed value), take the astra off them. If they won’t give you astra demand it be repaired with a detailed quote.

    • Skramit on 19/02/2020 - 09:12

      A rear bumper repair can easily be $5k.

      • Zondor on 19/02/2020 - 16:51
        +1

        On modern cars maybe. I have unfortunately tapped a modern Camry back bumper and that was 1.8k to be replaced. This included all the sensor replacement.

        Insurance company is taking her for a ride. No way that old POS bumper replacement is a write off.

    • apsilon on 19/02/2020 - 09:14

      I think you'll find it can't be repaired as the required parts are NLA. If I had to guess I'd say the energy absorbing foam can't be sourced.

      As for keeping he car several people have stated this. The insurer won't do it but even if they did why would you want it? OP clearly has no automotive mechanical experience so it's unlikely they're going to want to spend the time dismantling and dealing with time wasters on Gumtree selling parts and a written off car can't be registered again. If you get lucky you might be able to sell the wreck for $200 but it's just as likely you'd have to pay someone to take it away and that's after you pay someone to bring it to you.

      • cloudy on 19/02/2020 - 09:41

        OP has stated it’s only paint work, so there’s presumably nothing wrong with the car, just scratched.

        I’ve seen plenty of cars written off being driven, it’s written off only for insurance purposes, ie, insurance deems non insurable, just like hail damage cars, but can still be registered and driven around.

        • apsilon on 19/02/2020 - 11:10
          +1

          OP wouldn't have a clue. They're basing that simply on what they can see. I'll take the word of someone who's actually inspected the car over a non educated assumption.

          Rules have changed for written off vehicles. In most cases once written off the registration is cancelled and can't be registered again. At least that's how it is for NSW. Hail damage is a special case but even then it can only be renewed by the owner of the vehicle at the time it was damaged so you can no longer pick up a cheap hail damaged car and register it and drive as is.

          • cloudy on 19/02/2020 - 15:37

            @apsilon: Firstly, If you don't believe OP why would you even post here? You could argued he didn't even crash and is just trolling lol

            secondly, to only believe in the self serving opinion of the insurance company in deciding how much one should pay the insurance company is stupid.

            • apsilon on 19/02/2020 - 16:21

              @cloudy: I completely believe OP caused the accident as they stated and believes the only damage was what they could see. Experience tells me what the reality would be.

            • ankor on 19/02/2020 - 18:23

              @cloudy: Until the OP sources his own qualified assessment of the vehicle, I'm not trusting his eyeballing of the other vehicle.

    • imurgod on 20/02/2020 - 07:45

      You can't demand anything and it's unlikely that they will sell you the salvage.

  • techdave on 18/02/2020 - 11:59

    If it's a write off, shouldn't they at least give you the salvage value back to you?
    That is $4500 now and refund whatever value they could sell it for.
    Otherwise, pay $4500 and get the Astra off them.

    • John Kimble on 18/02/2020 - 12:00
      +3

      It's an Astra, probably need to pay some place to dispose of it :p

      • cloudy on 19/02/2020 - 09:42

        If that’s the case AAMI should pay OP to take it off their hands

    • Euphemistic on 18/02/2020 - 17:41

      Don’t think that’s how it works.

    • CMH on 18/02/2020 - 17:45

      I was just thinking that. $4.5k and charge them $2k for the wreck (which the insurers themselves do).

  • dogboy on 18/02/2020 - 12:44
    +1

    As others stated, get an itemised list of repair items. I would then ring some repair shops and get quotes for these repairs and challenge the quote if it looks unreasonable. If it is a write-off then make them give you the written off vehicle so you can sell it and recoup costs.

  • Hellfire on 18/02/2020 - 12:52
    +19

    If you don't believe that you did enough damage to cause a write off then you'll need to do a few things.

    1. Get a copy of the repair estimate. This usually has photos of the damage. Compare this to the damage you caused to the car.

    2. Write back to the insurance informing them that the repair estimate does not match what was caused in the accident. Have evidence that proves this.

    3. When they continue to request payment reply stating that you are formally declining liability for the repair since it doesn't match the damage you did and they will need to take you to court to resolve the matter. Bonus points for you to have this on a solicitors letter head.

    4. Hope the insurance company gives up here. Otherwise…

    5. Turn up to court and hope that you have enough evidence to convince them that you didn't do it. Having a solicitor in court will help but might not be worth it for 4500. One can helo assist your defence prior at a lower rate.

    • mrvaluepack on 19/02/2020 - 07:35
      +1

      Best and most helpful advice.

    • factor on 21/02/2020 - 10:32

      Almost but not quite - disputing liability for any amount isn't going to look good if you are taken to court.

      You should dispute liability for the total amount claimed, however make a "Without Prejudice" offer of a settlement amount for your fair estimate of the damage - an amount you are willing to pay. They are far less likely to take you to court if their gain is only the difference between your offer and $4500.

  • oz-eh on 18/02/2020 - 13:12
    +2

    if you drove into him at 30km/h and its only $4500 it does sounds reasonable to me. My car got hit 2 years ago while it was stopped at the crossing and the person behind decide to start driving before my car was even move, probably at about 10km/h in the rear bumper.

    You can hardly see the damage with your eye but I took it to my preferred smash repair and they would not repair it for even $5000. It was not my fault but our policy had the car covered for only up to $5000 (it was on Third party property and fire and theft insurance only, since it is a 20 year old car). We had the choice of either a write off and get back $5000 which we didn't want, or I had to find another repairer that would repair it for cheaper than $5000.

    I end up going to another repairer that would do it for like $4600.

  • meong on 18/02/2020 - 13:17
    +11

    OP,

    I had similar experiences happened to my sister but this time it was her car that was hit (being the other driver in your situation).

    What happened was the insurance company would find it too expensive to source a new spare part for the bumper because the car is old then insurance company decided to try to write it off.

    What also happened was that after the admin fees etc, the other driver probably will receive much less than $4500 (could be less than $2000)of the market value itself (speaking from experience). The insurance company can decide to cancel the comprehensive insurance or what they called "total loss" and set the value of the car to $0 (leaving only 3rd party left in the policy) and the other driver would still get about $2000ish. My sister ended up choosing this option instead. FYI, the person who bumped her car already got their insurance paying for the full price of the car.

    If you ask the other driver, find out how much he/she is getting from the insurance company. If the other driver is getting less than $4500, they may not be able to get a good deal or may not even get a similar car for that value. If you try talking to the other driver, perhaps he/she would prefer for you to repair the bumper and still get to own the car. Hopefully it's not too late for the other driver to cancel his/her claim.

    All the best

    • kaleidoscope on 18/02/2020 - 13:56
      +1

      +1 for useful advice.

      • resisting the urge on 23/02/2020 - 09:11

        Beware, most don't think the insurance companies will likely take theirs as well as your money. They will opt to go with the claim process as it might seem simple and less risky to them than agreeing to coming to an agreement with you directly

  • [Deactivated] on 18/02/2020 - 14:21
    +2

    At this point, OP, ypu should really show the dashcam footage so those providing you with a defence can actually provide greater detail.

    You claim damage at 30kmph. That is not slow. The still image you provided was inadequate to determine the magnitude of impact.

    Your claims that clips weren't even broken etc is irrelevant.

    Depending on the footage you wish to submit as evidence, you may very be paying the $4,500 and then some.

  • MrMoo on 18/02/2020 - 14:36
    +6

    I read the "i probably hit him at 30 km/h" like it's there to say it wasn't even that fast. I've been hit at 5-8km/h while I was stationary, required $5000+ in repairs.

    30km/h should not be used as an argument for your case.

    • HeWhoKnows on 18/02/2020 - 16:45

      Yes its irrelevent.
      The facts that matter is the damage

  • Dean29 on 18/02/2020 - 14:37
    +1

    OP says

    i know what is write off and how this works.

    Then

    I am not familiar with the insurances companies policies.

  • Trioboy on 18/02/2020 - 15:17
    -1

    Can you settle this outside of insurance? Maybe speak to the other party. Check if they are happy to get it repaired privately. If there is no major chassis damage, minor bodywork, and respray won't cost you that much. Get quotes from few repairers, tell them its a private job and source parts for them to reduce the cost.

    Or Buy them a similar or better replacement car, take ownership of the damaged car, fix it and sell it (or keep it, so you don't have to borrow your friend's car).

    • RandomFox on 18/02/2020 - 17:08
      +1

      They could have, but insurance is already involved

      • Trioboy on 19/02/2020 - 09:30

        Sometimes you gotta be proactive with these things. I would have negotiated with the other party on the spot and tried to get it settled outside of insurance.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 18/02/2020 - 15:19
    +2

    Pay the money

    Then get some driving lessons

    Then get full comp insurance with the lowest possible excess

  • imurgod on 18/02/2020 - 15:54
    +2

    You are liable for the $4,500. End of story.

    AAMI will not back down over around $3k and you can be sure that they will take you to court and seek judgement if you don't pay (which incurs interest and costs as well).

    They are very aggressive when it comes to claim recovery.

    The quantum is not excessive, the vehicle is easy to write off given it's age, the difficulty in getting parts and low sum insured vs repair cost.

    The fact remains that you're at fault and you drove uninsured. This is the result.

    • HeWhoKnows on 18/02/2020 - 16:44
      -4

      NO
      OP has every right to get 3 quotes and pay for the lowest quote.

      • CMH on 18/02/2020 - 17:49
        +1

        OP has every right to get 3 quotes and pay for the lowest quote.

        Where does it say so?

      • SydStrand on 18/02/2020 - 19:43

        Where did you get this information? First I’ve heard about it.

      • Skramit on 19/02/2020 - 09:12

        Garbage.

      • Mrbean007 on 19/02/2020 - 16:17

        Dont no why you got downvoted but 10 years ago i no it was possible dont no now (ex panel beater).

        Dont think lowest but agreed qoute.

        https://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/Pages/representing/lawassis…

        • imurgod on 19/02/2020 - 17:12

          @Mrbean007 You're referring to where you're dealing outside an insurance company. In any case, no more than one quote is requited now.

      • imurgod on 19/02/2020 - 17:08

        No he doesn't. The insurer will claim that the repair cost is within industry guides and the court appointed assessor will accept it.

      • brendanm on 19/02/2020 - 21:22

        Lol no he doesn't.

  • Gaz1 on 18/02/2020 - 16:26

    You would think that the owner of the car, who decided not to insure should have some responsibility in this matter.
    You tend to think that all cars are insured nowadays (for all the reasons mentioned above) - did he tell you it wasn't insured?
    Of course this is probably more a moral responsibility as ultimately you are the one that had the accident & therefore liable for the consequences.

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