Especially for Apple products I hear this a lot.
This is a myth.
You have at least three years in my opinion, apple does forecasts assuming a product lifespan of 3 years https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/ipad/iPad_PER…
The Act does not state "two years" anywhere. It says goods must be lasting, that they must last a reasonable time.
Where does this myth come from?
Ctrl-f "years" done. What does the apple pdf says: three
Customer use: Apple conservatively assumes a three-year period for power use by first
owners. Product use scenarios are based on historical customer use data for similar products,
collected anonymously. Geographic differences in the power grid mix have been accounted for
at a regional level.
• Recycling: …
@spackbace: Random pdf?
You mean Apples own reports?
You are being butthut and unreasonable you've already deleted a comment already in your angst, chill.
My last comment had nothing to do with apples report rather your comment.
I ask again: do you expect a product to outlast it's battery?
Furthermore how long do you expect an iPhone to last?
@spackbace: It's not a recycling report either it's a environmental impact report. It's a prediction given that the report is created before the phone is 3 years old.
It's not a warranty, it's a statutory guarantee.
Answer the question:
Do you expect a product to outlast it's battery?
Furthermore how long do you expect an iPhone to last?
it's a statutory guarantee.
It's actually multiple
And the only 'guarantee' part of it is arbitrary, and neither you, Apple, ACCC or I can define the length to a particular degree.
You say 3 years, I say 2 years, neither of us have definitive legal precedence to back it up, and ACCC won't define the length for particular products, or purchase prices, or anything.
It's all 'reasonable length'.
@spackbace: Answer the question:
Do you expect a product to outlast it's battery?
Furthermore how long do you expect an iPhone to last?
If 2 years then why, that's the whole point of this forum post.
@spackbace: No the product not the battery life. How long would you expect it to be fit for purpose is not return for a refund.
No the product not the battery life.
That was the product, they slowed it down. They don't slow down the battery lol
How long would you expect it to be
I can expect all I want, but I'm not a legal representative of Apple, or the ACCC
My expectations and beliefs and thoughts mean shit. As do yours.
@deme: Well actually,
The accc has determined that a phone is covered by warranty during the length of the contract from the telco.
And guess what. Telcos have 3 year plans aha
@deme: Here's the thing - consumer law protects the consumer so that products they purchase last a "reasonable" amount of time.
The term reasonable never has been (and never will be) defined under any categories because it's just too hard to categorise.
You can't sit there and say "here's a report about a battery" and then with your own conlusion of "products outlasting batteries" link to a report that has nothing to do with overall product longegivity.
A battery report and your opinion, or even a battery report and 1000 people's on OzBargain opinions is not a slam dunk combination for grounds to cover your product for the amount of time its battery lasts. If a manufacturer releases a statement that says "Our products are designed to outlast the battery" that's a different story.
But they will accept anything they deem reasonable and in some cases may find that argument reasonable but that is still heavy speculation.
ACCC heavily sides with the consumer.
I had a case where a customer returned a laptop after 4 years, went to ACCC told them he expected it to last longer and got a brand new current model machine and got to keep his old one.
I also went into Apple and told them I expected my phone to last 2 years when it shat itself at the 18 month mark and they refused to budge in store despite my Telstra plan being a 2 year plan at the time.
I actually disagree that people think that consumer law gives them 2 years warranty - or for that matter I disagree that people think that consumer law gives them any kind of fixed term warranty on anything and I'm not sure who or where you are getting this information from in the first place.
Consumer law is very clear and does not mention 2 years specifically anywhere.
Perhaps this expectation comes from credit cards that have that guarantee ?
I think a Judge ruled at leas 2 years for a phone, and since you can tax deduct a Laptop or a Computer over minimum 3 years, it's safe to assume 3 Years for Laptops and Computers is valid.
I had 1 warranty and 1 current warranty on Laptop and all in one in the 2 year "extended" warranty. 3 years is in my view "pushing it"
Different devices, different purchase prices, all have different warranty expectations.
OP is going off as if it's a blanket 3yrs on "apple devices" (which range from $600 phones to $20k+ macs), and anyone who says 2yrs is an idiot (basically), when it's such a grey area that no one has definitive timeframes.
But hey, let the negs keep coming on my comments 😂
Where does this myth come from?
probably from the same place your '3 year' myth orginated.
Apples website?
For a $2,000+ phone, I would want it to last 5 years…
Last I checked they forecast phones over 4 years
what they forecast or say on their website is NOT relevant. What is revelant when applying the consumer laws is what a reasonable person would expect a $2000+ device to last. Apple can forecast the device will only last 1 month but will still be on the hook for likely at least 3+ years. 3 years is generally considered the minimum due to telco's etc having 3 year purchase plans. though I think it is probably reasonable to argue successfully for 4 or 5 with the insane costs now.
A better comparison would be a 1.2 million S Guard
Don't jump in on 'in-jokes' you don't know.
@spackbace: Side note, it’s currently 12 years old and still hammering along. But I would expect that from an Italian designed, engineering masterpiece…
@spackbace: That reminds me. The rubber band needs to be wound up again. Runs on “95” duro orings… :D
Where does this myth come from?
The land where unicorns run free?
You've linked to a document called iPad Environmental Report. The excerpt you're quoting is from the Definitions section about greenhouse emissions.
Does the word context mean anything to you?
Do you expect a product to outlast it's battery?
Furthermore how long do you expect an iPad to last?
Depends on the product.
The statutory guarantee, since it covers almost all issues, is not how long you expect something to last (I've used things past them literally falling apart), but rather how long you expect something to last without developing any issues.
For an iPhone? 2 years is literally 2x the product cycle and the length of the longest common mobile phone plans.
For an iPhone? 2 years is literally 2x the product cycle.
You expect an iPhone to no longer be fit for purpose after 1 year?
@deme: I use Android. I think iPhones are not fit for purpose from the date of manufacture. What now?
You mean the iPad environmental report isn't the ACL?
In 2013, after the ACCC fined Apple over it's 12 month warranties, Apple changed it to 2 years and retrained staff etc.
ACCC were happy with this at the time (obviously, as they didn't fine them again)
Ergo, 2 years is the answer
Yup. Iirc (don't quote me) that was because the ACCC thought the product should last as long as the payment plan (24mth phone plans).
that was because the ACCC thought the product should last as long as the payment plan (24mth phone plans).
This was not the case, this was in regards to a 24 month phone contract.
ACCC does not make or rule on the law either.
What do you think of this: https://www.apple.com/au/legal/statutory-warranty/
Apple just got fined 45million for slowing down their older models phones on purpose. They gave an excuse saying that they did it so phones with new updates wouldn't overheat. Didn't fly with the authorities and they got stuck with a huge fine plus even more poor customer service which will cost them many sales.
Wow you just read the headlines of all those articles and that's as much information/context as you need, huh?
If you look into the details you'll learn there's much more to the story.
"Huge fine" :/
Apple's reasoning was more than valid. I'd rather a slower phone and then an unstable one.
@Randolph Duke: Sure, but the issue was they didn't tell people so they didn't have a choice. If people knew that they just needed a new battery to regain full performance rather than a brand new phone, would that have affected their purchasing decisions? I don't think it's a stretch at all to imagine that most people would have thought, "My phone is getting old and slow, I must need a new one".
@Randolph Duke: It's not more than valid thats the whole point. As they couldn't prove that the old phones were overheating or ever did at all with new updates. They got fined for this year's ago too, it's the same thing over and over again. Android (mainly Samsung) are doing it as well who have also got fined tens of millions. They do it to TV's with new updates. It's a disgrace what's happening!
@Whisper Quiet: It wasn’t to do with overheating, it was to do with older batteries not having the capacity to supply the power demands when peak computing was required, which causes the phone to randomly crash.
@Randolph Duke: I don't know what you're reading or where you went to school but the capacity of a battery doesn't make a difference! They said it would overheat and crash which is bullshit anyway because they couldn't even prove it. Apple fanboys defending their dictator til the end, even if they're screwing them over. Good job!
@Whisper Quiet: Current, not capacity - wrong word. And no, it wasn’t due to overheating.
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-slows-down-older-iphone-batt…
“ Lithium-ion batteries become less capable of supplying peak current demands when in cold conditions, have a low battery charge or as they age over time, which can result in the device unexpectedly shutting down”
Who’s been screwed over? Apple could have communicated it but I’ll take a stable phone over a crash prone one. 4 years out of my last one running the latest iOS - how many Android phones get 4 major releases?
@Randolph Duke: Do you work for Apple too? They can say whatever they want the fact is they were caught lying as it never happened when asked to prove it. Battery has nothing to do with a software update. Even in your "proof" that was from 2017. I'm talking about the new fine that was just given a few days ago which they stated for overheating. The only type of hardware that would make it crash would be RAM or CPU as isn't powerful enough to handle some tasks. If you're going to give proof at least pick the right article from the right year! Like I said Apple fanboys will do anything to serve their master.
@Whisper Quiet: The recent fine from France is for the behavior from 2017 - they’re just a few years late to the party. They mention specific iOS versions in their statement.
https://www.theage.com.au/technology/apple-fined-41-million-…
“However, France's Directorate General for Competition, Consumer Affairs and Fraud Prevention (DGCCRF) has now found Apple's initial lack of transparency breached its guidelines.
"The DGCCRF has indeed shown that iPhone owners had not been informed that the updates of the iOS operating system (10.2.1 and 11.2) they installed were likely to slow down the operation of their device," it said in a statement, adding that Apple had "committed the crime of deceptive commercial practice by omission".
Where are you getting your information from?
You acknowledged that the ACL states reasonable. If Apple, other manufacturers, ACCC and courts think 2 years is reasonable - it is. That's where the "myth" comes from. 2 out of the predicted 3 years is actually reasonable.
Can you cite a source where this is the case?
Wasn’t it 2 years because most people sign up for a 2 year contract with a phone provider, and it’s reasonable to assume your phone would last the life of the contract?
There are 3 year contracts now but generally poor value so not worth the warranty even if it was provided
Why do some people think the Consumer Law gives them 2 years warranty?
Dunno.
You have at least three years in my opinion
Well that clears that up.
Why do some people think the Consumer Law gives them 2 years warranty?
cough because it says so here
For the avoidance of doubt, Apple acknowledges that the Australian Consumer Law may provide for remedies beyond 24 months for a number of its products.
That's right under the paragraph you cherry picked.
That's right under the paragraph you cherry picked.
What paragraph? I posted a link.
So you didn't read the document?
Yes.
"may provide…"
and
"a number of its products…"
As everyone has been trying to tell you, there's no real set time period because it's all whatever's "reasonable". For some Apple products it might be 2 years, some more, others less.
No, I asked why people believe it is
24 months. That's the whole point of this forum topic.
@deme: Only you believe it's a set 24 months. Other people seem to be fully cognisant of the fact that it depends.
Thank you to all that responded, it seems like this myth stemmed from both Apples wording on their website and separately 24 month mobile contracts. I'm not trying to say Apple was misleading or trying to be, I'm curious about people who read https://www.apple.com/au/legal/statutory-warranty/
Apples own website states:
For the avoidance of doubt, Apple acknowledges that the Australian Consumer Law may provide for remedies beyond 24 months for a number of its products.
Do people reading that still think it is limited to 24 months?
Thank you to all that responded, it seems like this myth stemmed from both Apples wording on their website
Nope, ACCC 2011 ruling against the telcos caused this change
https://accan.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=artic…
Started with Optus, the rest followed including Apple
https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/optus-mobile-provides-…
Thank you to all that responded, it seems like this myth stemmed from both Apples wording on their website and separately 24 month mobile contracts
Based on that wording I would take 2 years as the minimum guaranteed statutory warranty period for all products.
But I could expect more on a case by case basis for certain products.
So as a general rule of thumb people just say 2 years since that's the absolute minimum you can get across all products without having to go into details of whether a specific product is or isn't expected to last more than 2.
Considering some providers now have 3 year contract, i would argue, my phones now have at least 3 years.
only if you signed up for a 3 year contract. if you took out a 2 year contract they would only cover you for 2 years.
Nope, you can use the acl as the guide. You'd have to fight for this, but you'll win in the end. Theres no way they will reject this. Buy local only obviously
You might get a free replacement by the telco if the phone breaks down without external influence, but that does not mean that everyone now gets 3 years of warranty on the phone.
To play devil's advocate, they aren't 3 year plans/contracts anymore —- they are device payments spread over 3 years. It would be akin to expecting AfterPay to give a warranty for the duration of the payment plan. The old style contracts used to include the phone inside the contract price for the plan. So it could be argued as a different scenario now.
You can argue that offering a phone payment plan spread over 3 years is akin to expecitng the phone to continue to work for said 3 years.
Afterpay is not the supplier. They only manage the payment of the item.
Telcos/manufacturers on the other hand are the supplier. Different scenarios
I've had a number of macs repaired for free just prior to the 3 year mark. Major repairs, like replacing the screen or logic board.
They didn't even question it, either on the phone or at the "genius" appointment.
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/12/13/macs-36-month-consumer-…
Lol, your opinion.
I got faulty battery replacement close to 2 years mark by apple for free of charge. They said terms of consumer law would cover this. By the way it won’t cover anything and everything. It’s there for functionality of the item. In my case a battery in a laptop is functional requirement and it had prematurely failed.
I don’t think it would cover accidental damages or cosmetic issues etc… Use it for what it is but don’t abuse the system for selfish needs and ruin it for everyone. Also I have not seen a 3 year warranty by acl anywhere. 2 years is what i’ve heard.
every thing has a life expentancy which is normally longer that the warranty the manufacturers offer,so if your tv etc stops working soon after the warranty expires simply ring Dept FairTrading or Consumer Affairs which ever operate in your state and ask them if the consumers warranty applies to the item you are inquiring about,in 2016 I purchased a 2003 holden wagon,it was originally priced $3000,when I went and purchased it the salesman told me he had overpriced it and dropped the price to $2950,after the 3 months rego ran out I was transfering the rego over to another state rego but it failed the roadworthy and it needed around $1200 repairs,I rang the salesman and he told me there was no warranty or guarantee as the car was under $3000 hence the reduction to $2950,I rang our FairTrading and was told to contact him again and if he does not offer any help just ask him "what about the consumer warranty"he emailed me asking how much I wanted and the amount was placed back into my bank account the next day,
you can google "consumer warranty" and read all about it,
think of the old saying,"you may get what you ask for but you will definatly not get it if you do not ask for it"cheers
CHOICE seem to think a high end smart phone should last up to 6 years. A lot of people don't really understand their rights, so when they are told that their warranty has expired they usually just believe it.
https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advic…
And again, will Choice go into bat for you against the manufacturer?
That's a nope
If you are a member Choice will provide advice on how to assert your rights with a manufacturer. They obviously don’t have any teeth. Often a letting the manufacturer know that Choice are interested in the outcome will help your case, as Choice regularly publicly shame companies that don’t recognise consumers rights.
And if that fails you should lodge a complaint with Fair Trading.
A good start point is - would you have still purchased it if you knew it was going to die after X years.
The actual consumer guarantee. The last sentence is relevant. There is no fixed period.
Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:
safe, lasting, with no faults
look acceptable
do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.
Shhh, OP and the neg voters believe it should be some set timeframe to be set in stone across all devices!
Don't fk with the status quo, man!
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I'm still rocking an iPad 2, given the software updates have made this impossible to use, the hardware side is still good.
I too am upset my still working 486 is not usable with the latest software.
Can we quote your opinion to Apple? Is that a viable tactic?
I can't see 3 years, or 36 months, mentioned anywhere in that document
ACL is an arbitrary amount, they never specify time-frames. People quote 2 years as the competitors offer than in a warranty, so that's a 'reasonable time'. Just because you say it's 3 years, doesn't make it 3 years. No where specifically states a 3yr lifespan, it's purely in your head.