Hardly Normal strikes again - this time with an unsuccessful attempt of 'marketing'
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/harvey-norman-apologises-after-b…
Since there is some mixed opinion about the term "racism" on Twitter and on Ozbargain, I have made a poll to see..
Racism is defined as prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Based on this definition from Google, what are your opinions about this?
Harvey Norman is a business name, not a person
It shows how educated and intellectual those "Harvey Norman" haters are.
Oh god, if you’re going to hate, at least hate the right person. Who the fk is Harvey Norman ???
Interesting. No bargains in this thread. No bargains at Harvey Norman.
They're such bandwagon-jumping media-whores, I was expecting
Harvey Norman
Someone gonna get a hurt real bad.
Not gonna say who. But I think you know him very well.
Since the Coronovirus is now a global outbreak there isn't any truth to this marketing…racist or not
That completely disregards the number of confirmed cases nearby as an element of how likely you are to catch it…….
Nearby what?
Wuhan is not the worlds mattress factory, is it?
If mattresses were the carrier your argument implies them out to be, we could not have hotels. But it makes a great abstinence argument:
You win 14 days!
Premarital sex is the leading cause of transition of the Novel Corona Virus. Mattresses can harbour Corona for over a year [3 months shipping + upto 9 months storage]. Stay safe. Sleep alone in your own bed.
Just because it is "global" as in there are cases around the world is not the same as there being the same distribution of cases from around the world. That was the point I was making; continue to choose to be obtuse if you wish.
Also hilariously, it's not unreasonable for mattresses to possibly harbour organisms that could make you sick…
Just because it is "global" […] point I was making
China is huge was my point
It's not unreasonable for mattresses to possibly harbour organisms that could make you sick…
If you are willing to accept a wet, moldy mattress then please, please don't by Wuhan made mattresses made after Nov 2019. Otherwise the month at sea should be more than enough to stop transmission. IANAD/EorV
@This Guy: It would have been a better argument and comment if instead of:
Since the Coronovirus is now a global outbreak
He had said:
Since mattreses are unlikely to contain the virus
Also Australia is almost as large and while regional NSW might not be as far away as you can get from some of the Australian Incidences, Wuhan is reasonably close to Changzhou and Nantong (682km and 777km respectively), the locations of two huge cmattress factories!!
The numbers still matter, having one case down the street is still better than having all of the west coast of Australia infected when I am on the east coast. It's a control problem - we are more than equipped to isolate and deal with a dozen cases; We are absolutely not equipped if that number jumps into the tens of thousands. We have 15 cases versus 42,638 - it is baffling to me that anyone thinks those are equivalent situations disregarding the mattress component (just as the original comment I replied to didn't discuss mattresses).
just as the original comment I replied to didn't discuss mattresses
Commenting on "A Thread about a Sign"…
Sorry, I didn't realise you were commenting off topic. My bad.
The problem with this snarkiness is that everything else Harvey Norman sells is made in China.
Everything except Australian made mattresses.
Should have gone all out and place a second sign next to it that reads:
"Electrical Department is cordoned off until further notice because 99.99% of our electrical products are made in China."
/s
Supermarkets should do the same with any food that contains gluten!
Good publicity indeed.
And totally and completely FREE!
Sellers by nature some are.
Im half Asian (not Chinese) it isnt racist it is just in poor taste
Thanks for that, mate! It's what I'd have felt if I were Chinese as well. People who are calling this as racism are diluting the actual issue of racism.
Don't we all love a good bunch of self-appointed, self-aggrandizing, pseudo-intelligentsia to be offended on behalf of an entire nationality of people? :-)
I'm half Asian too (Chinese) and although it looks like I'm in the monitory about this here on Ozbargain, I admit it does feel racist to me.
When you say the joke is just in 'poor taste' what do you mean exactly? Sure, the sign's not as overtly racist as someone saying to me 'f off we're full' but it's a little bit racist… and to me, a little bit racist is still racist.
I really do disagree with commenters saying that calling this out as racism is diminishing 'actual racism' because it's this kind of casual, every day discourse that continues to remind me of my 'otherness' and that Asian people are still regardless as less than white Aussies.
I think people aren't aware that direct racism is not the only form of racism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_racism
To me it's because the direct link is to the nCoV outbreak, not to being Chinese. If it had broken out in another country I fully believe the sign would say the same thing. Is it really racism if it's just everyone other than Australia? Is nationalism racism?
technically nationalism I think is one of the worst forms of racism. He4nce why I consider the US the most racist country on earth. Having said that this isn't racism, it is incredibly poor taste and simply playing on the fears of the public about nCoV.
@ozhunter: I actually hate backing sports people/teams simply because they are from your country. It is brainwashing from bygone age where rulers/governments want to engender allegiance and connection to maintain control of population. If you are supporting someone because you like them or know them fine, otherwise why the hell not support someone because they are the best or work the hardest at the sport or simply because you like them rather than they happen to live somewhere in the same country as you.
it does feel racist to me.
That is not a qualifier for racism. I could feel that you are racist. That doesn't make you a racist.
When you say the joke is just in 'poor taste' what do you mean exactly?
Simple. It means someone is making a joke at the expense of someone else's ongoing misfortune.
continues to remind me of my 'otherness' and that Asian people are still regardless as less than white Aussies.
Perhaps you may be right. We don't know you. Maybe one half of your family are racist.
Or maybe you were referring to the racial entirety of your white/asian half. That would mean you've stereotyped an entire race. That would be by your own definition "casual racism". That would mean you're racist.
And I simply assumed your other half was white simply because statistically, the other half of a non-white mix in Australia would be white. Now I am racist.
I really do disagree with commenters saying that calling this out as racism is diminishing 'actual racism'
By your definition, you and I must be racist.
Hitler was racist. KKK are racist.
Either we are terrible people or those guys are not necessarily that bad.
… and there you have it. We've diminished the impact of that accusation.
This is a really bizarre response to my comment so tbh I'm not really sure how to reply. The question of this discussion is literally whether we interpret the sign as racist or not, so I said yeah, it feels racist to me. If people interpreting things as racist is not a qualifier for racism, swhat is exactly is the right way to determine racism? Surely an Asian person being offended by a joke about Asians should be given some consideration in the determination.
I've read the rest of your comment a few times but I can't make much sense of it. I think you interpreted my comment about 'otherness' to mean I'm racist. If my clarification helps, I meant that as an Asian Australian there have been numerous occasions through my life where I have been treated differently to white Australians based on my race, regardless of the fact I was born and grew up here. Also it seems you have interpreted my comment to be that I think all white Australians are racists, which obviously I didn't mean at all and I'm not sure where that reading has come from…
And then you end with KKK and Hilter? I'm lost, sorry.
The question of this discussion is literally whether we interpret the sign as racist
No it is not. The word interpretation was never used, and the question was never asked. It was accusatory.
so what is exactly is the right way to determine racism? Surely an Asian person being offended by a joke about Asians should be given some consideration in the determination.
No. You are back at how someone feels. The definition of racism does not include that.
"Racism is defined as prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." - Oxford dictionary.
I'm not sure how you interpreted my comment about 'otherness' to me being a racist.
Because you profiled an entire "otherness" to be racist.
At any rate, maybe I felt it was racist. Isn't that enough?
And then you end with KKK and Hilter? I'm lost, sorry.
To demonstrate that which you dispute. If you lower what qualifies as racism then you are placing a bigger group with the likes of the adorementioned. In that scenario, it can be argued everyone is as bad as the KKK or the KKK is as relatable as those who have newly qualified as racist.
I'm Asian, I recalled several racist encounters in my life both in Australia and overseas.
I did not find this ad board to be racist as it was referring to the China as a country the product was made from instead of Chinese in general.
However, I agree it is just poor taste as some people are really struggling directly/indirectly due to the impact Coronavirus whether its Chinese/Asian/White/etc.
When Mad Cow disease was rampant in Britain, and the local butcher put out a similar sign, was that racist?
That's not the same at all. Imported meat could in fact be infected. An imported mattress is not.
Hmmm…. it's kind of exactly the same.
I think that board was in bad taste, but "Chinese" is not a race. It's a nationality. If anything, this could be called discrimination (quite a stretch, that). But racist? No.
I found theBad Guys to be on par or worse with how crap shopping experience has been.
How is it racist if it does not mention a race nor put a race beneath another?
Untimely joke? Bad taste? Sure, but its not that big of a deal.
It's not that big of a deal.
That's usually what racists would say after saying racist remarks.
I hope you are an Asian, because if you are not the butt of the joke, you have no right on saying whether this is big of a deal / not.
Im asian and i am part chinese.
I say this is not that big of a deal.
I agree. It is in poor taste.
And that's fine you think it's not a big of a deal.
I'm just merely stating an opinion that you can't say it's not a big of a deal if you're not part of the oppressed group.
@[Deactivated]: This sign does not target any group, it never mentions any group.
No group is "oppressed".
Now go back to your feminist dance therapy homework.
@Ahbal: Coronavirus is associated to China/chinese, therefore, a group.
Racial discrimination is not just purely based on race, but based on multiple factors: race, colour or national or ethnic origin.
This has been defined in the Racial Discrimination Act, back in 1975.
That was 45 years ago, and people at that time, as backwards as they were, knew that racism is not exclusively based on race, but also nationality.
part of the oppressed group.
What utter nonsense. The Chinese people are not any more oppressed in Australia than they're in China. The reality is in fact, quite the opposite. You can't even watch youtube in China FFS. Take your nonsensical ideology elsewhere.
@CocaKoala: Don't get me wrong, we can't even compare CCP government / communism with this particular first-world problem.
Just because these Chinese had it much worse in China, it doesn't mean that they should just accept the "joke" because now they have free access to the internet. Some of these "Chinese" could have Australian citizenships and should be treated equally, without being the butt of any nonsensical "jokes".
Just because these Chinese had it much worse in China, it doesn't mean that they should just accept the "joke" because now they have free access to the internet.
Way to twist what I said. You were the one who claimed that the Chinese are "oppressed" here, which is such arrant nonsense. What exactly is the oppression here? That some Bogan in the middle of shitheapton NSW made a joke about a virus in China? Get over yourself.
Some of these "Chinese" could have Australian citizenships and should be treated equally, without being the butt of any nonsensical "jokes".
Welcome to Australia where we like to have a laugh. The moment a Chinese person gains Australian citizenship, they're an Australian and are NOT "Chinese". If one had to exclude them from jokes, that would be the very definition of discrimination. Is this hard to understand?
Making a joke about a virus of all things ffs is far from "oppression". Build a bridge and get over it.
@[Deactivated]: Hahahahahahaha, needed that laugh today its been a tough one already.
Oppressed group, my goodness.
Hahahahahahaha, needed that laugh today its been a tough one already.
Oppressed group, my goodness.
7 eleven servos across Straya selling slurpies instead of bubble tea is a clear cut sign of racism and oppression. I changed me mind. Covert racism is what it is, I tell ya.
It's not that big of a deal.
That's usually what racists would say after saying racist remarks.
I dropped and broke my glass. My mate was concerned.
I said, "It's not that big of a deal."
I am so ashamed. I did not realise I had so much repressed racial hate.
I hope you are an Asian
With a name like Ahbal I am pretty sure the guy your calling a racist is "Asian". The Middle EAST has it's name for a reason.
And why would a Russian, an Indian or a person from the Middle East have any authority over if a sign naming a county on their continent is racist?
Facepalm.
(and yes, I know there are far more regions in Asian than those named.
It's not that big of a deal.
Virtue signaling is a far bigger indicator of racism today as it is used to hide the signaler's complete lack of sensitivity to both the people they are "protecting" and the people they are abusing.
Looking forward to people negging every HN bargain post now because someone in the company might be racist!
the mattresses might be australan made but where does the parts they make them out of come from???
The new Australia, where you can't attempt to say anything negative about our Chinese overlords or imply anything bad about China.
This is on the back of a dozen articles and some good Chinese propaganda about the racism that's now in everything everyone in the West is saying due to the Corona virus.
There are far too many topics that can not be spoken about with a level head and civilized conversation these days before being shouted down for racism or some other ism by people with hurt feelings.
I used to like living in Australia, I think its time to look elsewhere.
Is there a single nation on earth you could move to that wouldn't have Chinese propoganda these days?
If you just want to be away from those damn minorities and say what you want, then there are thousands of tiny regional towns that would gladly have you.
Thanks for proving my point.
Im so sick of outrage culture.
I'm outraged by outrage culture.
I'm boycotting boycotts
Seriously.. get a friggin life if this upsets you. as much as i dislike ol' Gerry.. this was funny as..
Aussie AF
Apologized, move on. No need to make a big fat deal about this.
A joke is a joke, but it's like that one guy in the office who doesn't get it and thinks everyone is on his side when it comes to his racist views.
Except now we live in the age of information and social media, and that one guy in the office is now tens of thousands of idiots across the country. And there are real ramifications for people who are at the butt of the joke. Which no longer makes it a joke.
Remember the Muslim woman abused on the train a few years back? Not an isolated incident I'm sure, just one that happened to make the news.
Now surely we condemn that sort of action, yet on the other hand we fuel it with things like this.
We live in a new age and we as a society need to adjust to that fact. Something drawn up in outback Australia doesn't stay in outback Australia anymore, and it only takes tens of thousands of idiots to turn a peaceful country into a hostile one.
and it only takes tens of thousands of idiots to turn a peaceful country into a hostile one.
Then stop contributing to that number!
Wait. So the Chinese will buy our baby formula because it’s made in Australia and not China. By this logic that’s racist.
Clickbait thread
Fascinating discussion. As an Asian migrant at the young age of 4, I identity culturally Aussie.
Whilst people will see the sign as racist, how do we describe the lack of Asian customers who would otherwise flock to heavily asian districts of Box Hill for example? Lots of businesses are dead quiet there from the fear of contracting Coronavirus.
As soon as white Aussies have the same mindset as Asians, they're seen as racist?
The problem with people who readily accuse others of racism is they do not actually know the definition of the word, even when the definition is literally being spelt out.
Just because something is racially based doesnt make it racist.
For example, if I am told to expect an African family joining me for tea, I do expect a dark skinned family. I have made that expectation based solely on race.
If I wanted a kosher meal, I'd avoid a Chinese restaurant as pork is a staple ingredient in many Chinese dishes. (Delicious.)
Neither one of these profiling or stereotyping has anything to do with a racial superiority.
Just because something is racially based doesnt make it racist.
This discussion isn't even based on a race. It's about a nationality.
The sign is trying to emphasise that the mattresses are made in Australia. The comment about Coronavirus I believe is tongue in cheek but not racist. Is simply stating that a mattress is made in Australia racist, since it implies other countries make inferior mattresses. All the statements below say the same thing, but at which point does it become racist?
Our mattresses are made in Australia
Our mattresses are not made overseas
Our mattresses are superior quality since they are made in Australia
Our mattresses are superior quality since they are not made overseas
Our mattresses are superior quality since they are not made in China
Our mattresses contain no Coronavirus as they are made in Australia
Mattresses are made in Australia from 100% imported materials from China. Literally.
Springs, foams and fabrics all come from China, the irony of it all.
Racism is defined as prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Based on this definition from Google, what are your opinions about this?
The bolded bit is the most important distinction between racism and not.
How did that signboard imply racial superiorty?
Love the title change lol. It used to say something about a clown?
The poll result is interesting. I have a few Asian friends on social media saying it is racist but perhaps they're just the loud minority.
I assume their reasoning to their Asian counterparts are that it assumes to paint every Chinese under the same brush, or keeps Asians to be self-devaluing if we don't perceive it as troubling.
For me, it's not racist and I'm sure people want to know the answer that the sign provided. But given how sensitive and PC society is getting…guess we shouldn't have these signs (or we should have more)
I have a few Asian friends on social media saying it is racist but perhaps they're just
the loud minoritystupid.
These friends of yours are toxic. They will arbitrarily condemn others and their negativity is infectious. Some can even do it with a cheerful disposition.
I still have friends like that and since minimising my interaction with them, I feel a lot better.
You do not have to be a short fused outrage machine to show your commitment to anti-racism. Just don't be a racist (by its true definition) and educate those who unintentionally diminish the abhorant connotation by misusing the word.
I mean I don't see them as toxic and I genuinely think they want to create a better world but the means in which they express it (very Greta-esque) probably doesn't help and no doubt they probably align themselves on the left politically.
What does always bother me personally is painting themselves and single minority incidents as victims and then justifying any reaction based on it…
I mean I don't see them as toxic
painting themselves and single minority incidents as victims and then justifying any reaction based on it…
I think you enjoy their company and are not comfortable confronting the possibility your friends are indeed toxic.
Your entire description of your friends screams toxic.
It is uncomfortable facing the prospects of making new friends especially if you are older. I faced the same issues but I am glad I ripped that bandaid in time.
@[Deactivated]: LOL what on earth hahahahaha chill out on what you are assuming with who my friends are.
They're friends I've met 10 years ago in highschool where their social media posts through Instagram and Facebook show what their views are. My close friends who I hang with at the football or weekend don't have a strong social media opinion. You can stop projecting what you've experienced onto strangers on the internet because you can sometimes get it very wrong.
I don't mind when people have difference in views, it's what our society is made of. I make new friends all the time playing social sports frequently. They all have different views I would imagine but in the end, we have common interests and arn't toxic.
@penguin286: I am not assuming. I can honestly tell you I do not know who you are nor your friends.
I am not saying they are bad people and you're a bad person by association. Just take a step back and realise I am not criticizing you, merely pointing out a toxic victim complex which you've colourfully described.
Maybe realise that your close friends can have flaws and a stranger on the internet is capable of labelling the faults that you have identified and literally spelt out.
If this is a sensitive subject to you for whatever reason, I can respect that. It doesn't change any facts but I can do the chill.
(Heads up, if you don't want criticism about your mates, best not bring them up to begin with. It is the internet.)
@[Deactivated]: I don't get you lol
You just said you admit you do not know who I am nor my friends and you go ahead and start assuming to know who they are
It's far from a sensitive issue, I could talk about it all day but it's just odd to see a post that starts assuming about someone's life that even I wouldn't know loooool
You just said you admit you do not know who I am nor my friends and you go ahead and start assuming to know who they are
Say you have a friend, you tell me she is 7'2.
I tell you she is tall.
You tell me someone plays a victim complex and uses that as the means for justification. I call it toxic and infectious.
I don't know you. I'm making a remark based on what you have told me. It is not an assumption and it is certainly not a personal attack.
@[Deactivated]: "I think you enjoy their company and are not comfortable confronting the possibility your friends are indeed toxic."
"Your entire description of your friends screams toxic."
"Maybe realise that your close friends can have flaws and a stranger on the internet is capable of labelling the faults that you have identified and literally spelt out."
Everything above there are assumptions. I don't mind trying to figure out truths on the internet, but those above statements seems more like you've made up your mind on things. That's all really and why I just found it a little bit strange for myself I guess
@penguin286: You are very defensive. You've put in descriptors, I made a remarknbased on descriptors.
You are indeed uncomfortable so I'll take this as an out.
No injury intended.
@[Deactivated]: No more defensive as yourself feeling the need to reply :) I just felt you didn't realize you were making assumptions despite saying otherwise but yeah, have a good day sir!
damn guys. my friends your friends we all need some icecream.
Grow up
Just on the definition 'based on the belief that one's own race is superior'.
So would it be considered racism if I said something like 'You people are as (profanity) up as us Asians' …….just being curious
Nope.
one's own race is superior'.
I guess every single campaign and sign urging us to buy Australian made is racist too.
Coles must be boned then
https://www.coles.com.au/corporate-responsibility/supporting…
:P
Harvey norman mattresses are chinese junk.
Theres a reason i had t wait almost 2 months to receive my mattress i bought from them last year.
Because its chinese. what a load of rubbish.
Many mattresses in Harvey Norman, such as King Koil, are made in Australia. The reason you had to wait 2 months is because its Harvey Norman lol.
yep, harvey was using the prepayment interest to fund his new yacht.
bet he was one of those guys who pays $4000 for a mattress cause it was 50% off.
Lol, my chinese mate thinks this is funny cause it's true
The joke is made in poor taste in reference to current affairs and making a subtle hint towards manufacturing standards in Asia, however it is not racist.
The joke does not make fun of Chinese or Asian people as that is not the butt of the joke (see above). This joke is in poor taste due to the severity of the issue and the potential that people may see this as racist.
source: am Chinese
Direct racism is not the only form of racism.
Covert racism is a form of racial discrimination that is disguised and subtle, rather than public or obvious. Concealed in the fabric of society, covert racism discriminates against individuals through often evasive or seemingly passive methods. Covert, racially biased decisions are often hidden or rationalized with an explanation that society is more willing to accept. These racial biases cause a variety of problems that work to empower the suppressors while diminishing the rights and powers of the oppressed. Covert racism often works subliminally, and often much of the discrimination is being done subconsciously.
I'd suggest you start with understanding the difference between race and nationality.
Assuming you do care about race discrimination, I'd suggest you read the Racial Discrimination Act 1975.
Every sections in this act defined racial discrimination not simply based on race, but based on multiple factors: race, colour or national or ethnic origin.
This must be covert stupidity.
(But not so covert…)
Harvey Norman is two faced!