Hardly Normal strikes again - this time with an unsuccessful attempt of 'marketing'
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/harvey-norman-apologises-after-b…
Since there is some mixed opinion about the term "racism" on Twitter and on Ozbargain, I have made a poll to see..
Racism is defined as prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Based on this definition from Google, what are your opinions about this?
Oh I think that ship sailed years ago didn't it?
Stay strong.
I'm trying….but everyone keeps throwing pejoratives at me. :(
You mean the boats
Where does Moggott get their unbiased and reasonable news from, do tell us? Which bastion of journalistic integrity receives your custom? SkyNews? Miranda Devine?
Please tell us where we should get unbiased news
Is it true though?
Most racist comments/stereotypes are built on truths, just seen from one perspective or another (in other words stretched)
It’s true of all places in Oz, not just those with an ethnic minority
No one should be leaving front doors unlocked anywhere. I would never do that no matter what area I live in.
Geez… Sometimes it's just delusion of reference…
If that’s the subtext you picked up on, I think it says a lot about you.
I’ve heard this said and never thought it has anything to do with race.
Welcome to indirect/covert racism
Here’s an extract that may assist.
Unlike overt and intentional acts of racism, casual racism isn’t often intended to cause offence or harm.
Doesn’t the lack of intent mean that casual racism isn't really racism?
One of the obstacles to having an open conversation about race is the tendency to downplay things as not “truly” or “really” racist. This can embolden or encourage prejudice.
You don’t need to subscribe to doctrines of racial superiority or incite racial violence to say or do something with racist implications.
Racism is as much about impact as it is about intention. We shouldn’t forget about those who are on the receiving end of discrimination.
@Vote for Pedro: next will be the explain about micro aggressions and unconscious bias…
you cant just say something is racist or upsets you and that makes it so..that quote you showed doesnt speak at all about the influx of foreigners…just because you interpret something as being racist doesnt mean that it was meant the way you interpreted it.
I think you are the one with the problem..the way I read that quote would more relate to the crime and doesnt al all mention foreigners… stop pushing the alt left agenda..
@siresteelhell: Petal doesn’t like being disagreed with.
The intent is important. Downplaying that part is exactly what I’m talking about
@Vote for Pedro: according to your initial reference I can interpret it how I like and that makes it so..
@siresteelhell: We agree on that. I may not intend it to be offensive, but you clearly took offence, so yes.
And to clarify, I don’t think the person who wrote the sign was intending to cause racial offence but was just tone deaf and probably thought was being funny. Just ends up looking a jerk playing the anti China sentiment
@Vote for Pedro: i didnt say i was offended at your condescending name calling… I just thought it was laughable that your first response to someone who disagreed with you was to call someone a name…once again you read into something more
@siresteelhell: I’m going to call you out for being offensive even though I’m not offended. What?
Do you know how most racist comments/jokes start? “I’m not being racist, but…”
You know when the whole country was burning a month ago, I dont recall any Chinese person making fun of Aussies or the idiots that run this country.
In fact many offered help and donations.
This is a tragedy that sadly impact on countless innocent humans through no fault of their own.
And yet the discrimination and stereotype everywhere.
Says a lot about our people.
And I wonder how many people in China will recall this handwritten sign in a rural Australia…
Chinese as in Australian Chinese or Chinese migrants here.
@cktftw: Well the sign was saying goods coming from China are the risk, not anyone of Chinese heritage.
The only way an Australian Chinese could take offence to this sign is if they have been to China in the past 2 weeks, in which case it's probably more offensive that they are hanging around shopping in a main street when the official advice is to self quarantine.
@cktftw: Lol so because the sign turns out to be a weak argument now we're using new examples.
Does that mean I can just find some random cases of racists in China?
@900dollaridoos: The argument of, ‘but they do it, why can’t we’ is pissweak. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
@Vote for Pedro: Except that's not the point I made at all is it, I said the sign isn't racist. Nice rage neg though lol
I dont recall any Chinese person making fun of Aussies
What a load of outright croc! Maybe read a little.
This is only the most recent thing I can be bothered reading (about foreigners and their mockery).
I have friends who have translated some pretty horrible things being said about Australians whilst being a guest in the country. I'm in no way saying that it is a representative of all chinese but you certainly paint the opposite picture whilst making a signboard in rural Australia with no mention of race into the representative of "racist Australians".
Perhaps didnt make clear in first post, but did in my reply to 900
I'm not talking about gov related propaganda.
If we're talking about gov agendas , you can go read up all the croc Peter Dutton is spewing out everyday.
@cktftw: So what did Peter Dutton say?
You think a signboard in rural Australia is more representative that Peter Duttons alleged spew or the confirmed slander that I have provided a source for?
@[Deactivated]: Again, as above, I am not discussing government propaganda.
I am talking about the discrimination and stereotype individuals (including this particular HN franchisee) are dishing out to the Chinese population.
If you cant see the problem here, you're likely part of the problem.
Have a read - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-01/coronavirus-has-spark…
@cktftw: If I do not agree with a published opinion, I am a problem?
FML. I must have taken the wrong turn and ended up in WWI/II USSR.
Please look up what discrimination means. Hint - that signboard did not read - <insert group> not welcome.
Stereotyping individuals? Ironic on so many levels. Firstly, stereotyping affects groups. Second, you are doing it by stereotyping the rest of Australia based on a signboard written by one person.
agree.
it's bad joke and misleading information. but not racist.
that is kind of racist, or
a joke in poor taste
but other than that chinese international students and chinese people commenting racism are complete and utter bull shit, how dare they selfishly enter one's country knowing they may or have contain coronavirus and spread it world wide to countries and universities.
that is kind of racist, or > a "joke in poor taste*
Those are two different things.
Not every joke in poor taste is racist but certainly every racist joke is in poor taste.
The mention of race is not a qualifier of racism.
Must agree with you though, its not racism if the chinese are the one who spread it in the first place
Did he write it himself or some employee?
I believe the store owner/manager wrote it as employees were unaware of the sign
So why are you vilifying the franchise?
Here's something from Gerry the Sunday Telegraph showing how much he supports locals:
BILLIONAIRE retailer Gerry Harvey says Australia needs a two-tier wage system to allow employers to pay foreign guest workers less than locals.
"Australia doesn't have cheap labour. Many overseas workers would be prepared to move here for a much better life and half the money Australians earn," he said.
"I've got horse studs and it's difficult to get staff.
That's probably not a bad idea. Us foreigners earn disproportionately more than locals which doesn't seem right.
Are you not a local if you live here, you are a citizen or you have PR?
Great, no-one would employ Australians and we can all live off Centrelink.
If it's difficult to get staff, why does he think halving some people's wages would help?
It wouldn't be so bad if the Liberals weren't listening to him.
Truth in advertising
Of course SBS would call it a 'racist' sign.
The quotes suggest other people are calling it racist. And they quoted the people who did. You make the Decision as to whether it is or not.
This was one regional store and the master franchise owner put a stop to it pretty quick.
Why the (fropanity) do people give this arsehole any of their time and/or their money. The guy is a certified weasel. (And before you go all neg crazy, this is not in relation to this sign or the article, but just a general passing comment that Gerry Harvey is a (fropanity).)
They either don't know or don't care. I get the hate towards him, but it doesn't really affect me in any way. There aren't any HN stores in the CBD so don't shop there anyway but not too adverse to doing so.
I got a top LG microwave at a very nice price from HN on Boxing Day. You just need to know your prices and then pounce at the right time, whoever the retailer is.
but it doesn't really affect me in any way.
So you haven’t purchased from overseas yet?
Nope, haven't had the need to and no interest in cheap Chinese junk.
@Hybroid: There are other countries out there where people buy from. Like US. Even Amazon US store on Amazon AU is expensive because of this.
@Hybroid: I acknowledge your opinion, however a strong argument could be presented that your comment is vile and racist.
You suggest that goods from China are inferior, not up to (our great Aussie) standards. This impugns not only the reputation of millions of hard-working, low paid, politically oppressed Chinese people, but suggests that they are incapable of producing quality items; that they themselves are therefore inferior.
This is classic indirect racism. You are promulgating lies and slandering a whole race of people. You don't need to shout, "I hate Chinese people because they are shoddy workers." Your nasty subtle indirect racism does it for you.
@Roman Sandstorm: @Hybroid
Or perhaps… you have just had some crappy goods in the past which happened to have been made in China. And this has coloured your opinion on all such items sourced from there.
@Roman Sandstorm: I love the contrast between painting me as the ultimate racist and then giving me an excuse out. Thanks for that chuckle. Avoiding cheap Chinese crap is not a reflection on the populace nor indeed the race. Most products are made in China nowadays (e.g. iPhones) and clearly demonstrate the skill level that is available there when designed well, tested well and quality assured. I'm not adverse to well made products made in China nor have an issue with their resources. I have many Chinese engineers working for me here and they're no different to anyone else. However, revert to the reality that the majority of Chinese sourced products on eBay/Banggood/Alibaba/etc are garbage, potentially unsafe, full of fake/counterfeit and inferior quality materials with questionable quality. Therefor, I, personally, have no interest in them whatsoever. I'm happy to pay a premium for a product available in the local market that has been adequately tested and covered by warranty.
@Roman Sandstorm: You're projecting what you wish to be offended by or what you think everyone thinks about a country and its people due to some comments which did not include any of the above but are clearly swirling around your head.
Plenty of people avoid "cheap Chinese junk" often because the products are of low quality, that there is already an excess of plastic crap in the world, that its not really that needed or due to being a poor imitation (China rarely create, only copy and then at a fraction of the cost) does not make the purchase worth while.
You're implying the rest in large leaps and bounds in the chase to be upset and offended so you can complain about it.
@91rs: @91rs
I think you may have slightly missed the (admittedly laborious, and probably not all that funny) point I was attempting to make. Hybroid got it.
While indirect racism no doubt exists, just labelling cheap Chinese goods as junk does not nessarily imply that kind of racism.
And further, just criticising something in general does not immediately imply racism. Or sexism. Or whatever-ism.
Gotta love the comments on reddit. It's one big cesspit there.
We found the 2 supporters of the sign ^ Shame negs are anonymous.
"Xenophobic jokes are jokes though"
Can't really fault that.
Yeah people can make jokes in poor taste, but if there were no jokes about race, gender, culture, sexuality, generations, classes, what would there be jokes about?
Seinfeld observational humour about little bread rolls on planes? Inb4 "I don't fly I'm poor or ecologically woke".
you can make a joke about anything, but the more offensive and taboo the joke, the better and smarter the joke needs to be. You can make a joke about a homeless gay chinese trans rapist boomer with coronavirus if you really have to, and you can make it funny, but it had better be effing good.
Yeah I agree. Humour that is close to the line, or over the line, better be funny.
Meanwhile, for a country town this sign may be sophisticated enough to meet that bar. I don't know, I'm urban.
Being a joke doesn't excuse it from being racist or xenophobic. It's ironic that the people making these jokes are the first to say "It's only a joke, don't be offended" yet are so sensitive about being called out.
I'm not sensitive about being called anything in particular.
What I am sensitive about is that I believe the comedy industry is an art form and should be protected from overreach by social justice warriors for the reasons I explained above. If it is illegal to cause "offence" comedians will not be able to do their jobs. Yes, I am serious.
Now the sign in question was not part of a theatrical performance, and instead was a piece of advertising. Hence I'm actually quite happy for you to complain to Harvey Norman and for that business to respond as they did indeed respond, by distancing themselves from the statements in the sign and demanding the store manager remove the sign.
That doesn't change my blanket statement that "xenophobic jokes are jokes". Seems tautological, does it not?
@ozbjunkie: Sure. But it being a joke doesn't reduce it's xenophobia. It doesn't have to be censored, just acknowledged.
bit sad this kind stuff makes the news.
really in the scheme of the tragedys that have made the news lately, people get upset about this…
Yeah I know, can everyone start killing each other again so we can make proper news again?
Harvey Norman are the surnames of 2 different people lol. One of which hasn't been involved for 20+ years.
That's not what the title means. They're referring to the company as a singular entity, like a person, which does come across as awkward grammatically because it is not a person. An alternative would be Harvey Norman are clowns, but it's just one company, not multiple companies so it wouldn't make much sense to pluralise either. Though doing it that way could also be referring to the people who make up the company but that that wouldn't make sense either as it's the company itself and the founder which has faced continued criticism not the employees exactly.
The only way I can see around this is: Harvey Norman is Clownish.
but it's just one company, not multiple companies
You do realise the entire group is made up of 200+ group owned or franchisee company entities, right?
As the documentary "joker" recently revealed, clowns are a vulnerable population and I don't think you should be using the name of their profession as a term to denigrate and insult non-clowns.
That's gay.
I'm offended.
@Pustom your train of thought? - "Don't correct my mistake, I neg you for showing others I was wrong"
lol
From what I've read, it's transmitted human to human… and certainly can't survive on an inanimate object which has travelled 7000km across the ocean! Which just makes the sign dumb.
From what I've read it can happily survive on inanimate objects for some time. Apparently they were suprised that after some time they went back to the original infection site and found the virus was still active there. Apparently it was also found on door handles and such of a family who was infected. The son of that infected family was asymptomatic but also found to be infected.
That being said, I agree that it's unlikely to survive weeks on a boat to Australia, or in the frigid, low-pressure environment of the planes under belly for too long even if it did manage to board a mattress.
The sign is in poor taste, not witty and poorly timed.
But it is not racist.
I does not mention any race at all, let alone somehow putting down another race.
I have no love for HN or TGG, I will go there if the price is right.
Is this a "Go to the Mattresses" from "The Godfather" thing? lol
So who is this sign being racist against the Virus is now in just about every country in the world. It is an advertising gimmick and nothing more. Some people need to get a life.
Somehow the virus has a race now. What a time to be alive.
How is this racist, its basically saying they don't sell imports from china. I am so sick of left wing gronks being PC
Equating a nationality with being diseased. Advertising to an hysterical sinnophobic community that has been conditioned to fear China.
I think the gronk here is the one assuming all Chinese people are left wing.
No you're sinnophobic. Lol. Google the definition.
What nationality? The ads didn't say any nationality?
China is a country, not a race. Sinophobia is Anti-Chinese sentiment. That is what this whole thread is about.
What is lost on most commenters is that thinking "Chinese" is a race is the same as thinking "Asian" is a race when Russia, India and even the Middle East are all Asian countries. Ivan, Raj and Muhammad are all traditional Asian names.
the sign ignores the fact that the rest of the store is filled with chinese junk. all those chinese tvs, phones, cameras could potentially be harbouring coronavirus just ready to pop out when you open the box :)
100% mtg, the sign is at worst, in poor taste. Not in anyway does it speak racial about the Chinese. Its simply pointing out the fact that their mattress's are Australian made. This world inst being ruined by people like me its gronks like mnermner who think that they are better than everybody else
Exactly.
Harvey Norman Is a Clown
don't insult clowns!
This aside, Harvey Norman is a terrible person
It is an untimely joke in poor taste.
It isn't racist as it is referring to imports from a nation that is dealing with a well known viral outbreak.
Stop misusing the word. It diminishes the meaning when it is used on actual racists.