I heard a lot of sad stories of people working for $10-15.p.h (20+ age) in Hospitality and retail.
Is there anything we could do to stop this.
From what I heard, Big giants in retail and many franchisees are underpaying their staff in cash. Any ideas to make this system better?
Vote 1 - EightImmortals
Damn straight! I'd have the whole sheetshow sorted in 12 months. :)
The sheetshow will have you sorted in a month.
Don't vote any more! Let the other anti unions vote in future governments while you pay off the non-vote fines. Worth it to stick it to government amirite guys?
What union? I would expect most if not all below award workers to be non unionised but I could be wrong.
Retail is covered by the SDA. With a union like that, you're probably better off without a union.
(Deals with ColesWorth tend not to be for the benefit of the rank & file, comrades)
retail has Raffwu
First step is to simplify the award rule.
So it's easier for both employers and employees to know if they underpaid/are underpaid or not.
It is simple they are just ignoring paying penalty rates and overtime plus super, it’s not very hard
sure thing, mr. genius
Have you ever read the hospitality award or worked in the sector? It isn’t very difficult
@DemocracyManifest: It's definitely not simple.
If your contract says you are to work a minimum of 20 hours; does that mean any hours in excess are subject to overtime?
And then are you willing to debate this in court that your interpretation is the correct one?
@gmail92: You get paid casual loadings for hours worked on top and subsequently those extra hours worked do not count towards your annual leave or sick days. If you do over 38 hours you are supposed to be paid double time.
@DemocracyManifest: You just spewed a load of bull that made no sense - making assumptions and overall making no sense. You didnt answer the question either, so you clearly have no idea what youre talking about lol. If you have no understanding of the landscape you shouldn't be pretending you do.
@gmail92: +1 vote
Serapis on 30/01/2020 - 21:25new
@gmail92: Yes
You got your answer. The only time they can avoid paying penalty rates in this situation is to get the employee to sign a temporary contract to increase hours. i.e. Over the christmas period JB Hi-Fi makes staff members who are part time sign a new contract to increase contracted hours to 38.
@hypie: It was a hypothetical to highlight the many intricacies and vagueness of contracts, awards, and agreements and its nowhere as simple as this nobody insists it is.
Yeah try it with 20 employees while dealing with GST calculations, super, Company tax, long service leave and not to mention the actual work.
Again if you can’t manage it that’s why you get an accountant or similar service to avoid owing people their money
@nurbsenvi: Well you’d already be using the appropriate software to keep track of everything wouldn’t you? It’s the cost of doing business.
Omg thank you for pointing this
Award system wastes so much time for everyone for no reason.
Try calculating annual leave on 52 week cycle is a nightmare
Award system is what pays everyone properly, if it’s too hard for you to read through pay someone to do it for you to avoid penalties. In the hospitality industry people are hired to cook the books, astonishing, ive worked in places with seperate clock in systems for front and back of house staff, and no penalty rates and super yet payslips are generated and nothing reported to the ATO.
I asked the owner simply what award and level I was on, he took me off the roster. Owed suppliers a lot of money, phoenixed the business and reopened in the same spot. Unbelievable. The awards stipulated what you are supposed to be paid on your experience and duties. If it’s too hard for someone to decide whether you are Food and Beverage Attendant 1-3 they should not be in business.
Is There Anything We Can Do to Stop This as a Union?
Sure, first you gotta join one.
Then maybe some high profile boycott campaigns and strikes (strikes are a bit harder these days, they're all but illegal).
A lot of people are unaware. In part due to Murdoch monopoly of Australian/Daily Telegraph/Etc being anti-union. So most of what I know was grassroots or researched.
If people have the talent and skills to do the above as you suggest, than they most likely wouldn't be stuck in a position that is grossly underpaid in the first place!
Spread information on them or news of abuses. Ie talk to people. Post on facebook or twitter.
The problem with this is that once someone personally identifies themselves and reports an abuse. The company will defend itself with many lawyers, they also do not leave a good paper trail of their issues so its hard to catch them. The victim of abuse who publishes would deter other employers because of the issues they are bringing up and maybe jobless. Thats too much risk for a person to take.
The solution though is mostly political.
Start your own business and pay proper wages.
Most of the under payments are small businesses which can't afford to hire staff because they are technically unviable businesses which isn't an excuse.
It is a dumb move if you under pay and part of a franchise chain. You will always be found out.
It is like Ramsay's kitchen nightmares, some people are not meant to be in business.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/here-s-a-running-list-o…
No heavy penalties for wage theft. Looks like a lot of backpay and interest when caught!
Do you have any examples of heavy penalties for when I decide to underpay my workers as a multi-million business?
Stop clutching at straws.
I can guarantee you that there is more small business by number and people affected than billion dollar businesses. Some SMEs turn over more than millions too. You know why because I hear about it every day. Don't forget the farmers that pay fruit pickers below minimum wage, and we wonder why nobody wants to do the job.
If you were working for a national company will hundreds and millions in revenue, if you checked your pay slips and pulled out a simple calculator you'll be able to work out your entitlements. If you go to HR they will definitely correct it.
For small business the owner of the business is ultimate owner, HR, legal and compliance in one. If they underpay there is no checks and balances.
Big business doesn't tell you up front you are being underpaid, they may have missed it. But these businesses tell you up front it is $13 - $15 per hour, so it isn't like they are telling you $13 and paying you $12 by admin mistake.
Can't you tell the difference between yes your contract is $20 per hour, we paid you $19 and got found out and here is you $1 back. Where as the other is we told you $13, now I got founded out and here is your $7. There is a lot of difference between intentional dishonesty.
Most of these national company underpaid some staff NOT all staff like these small businesses.
"Most of the under payments are small businesses". No they're not, many of the biggest companies/employers in Australia have been caught systemically underpaying staff:
- Woolworths
- Qantas
- Bunnings
- Commonwealth Bank
- BankWest
- Dominos
- 7/Eleven
LOL here we go again.
It isn't the WHOLE workforce. You got to some of these restaurants and it is systematically underpaying the WHOLE workforce. 100% not like 10% of Woolworths.
In big business you can check your pay slip and go HR or confidential whistle blower hotline. Because it is in your contract as $20/hr, you got underpaid.
IF you are in a small business and got offered $13 as opening position then it is open dishonesty. You do know the difference between under payment of certain proportion of staff due to errors compared to under payment of 100% of staff because that is the starting position.
With large corporations you get a payslip that details all your gross, deductions and electronic transfer which means you have it in writing. Where as some of these small cash in hand businesses you don't get diddly squat and it is your word against theirs. It is how they operate.
IF there is never intent to pay you the full rate then businesses WILL NEVER put it in writing. Most of those who intend to break the law do it from the onset with oral contracts. Then you need to find enough witnesses to substantiate a case.
I was hired at 7/11 the franchise owner owned 10 7/11's. including the one at wynnum central in qld. First day in there he told me "im going to be paying you this,(was $10 an hour), it's on camera, you can see the camera. That means it's legal." (20 yr old me who grew up in america and didn't realise people had rights here just knew that was how it is.) I'd spent months looking for a job(currently there are like 2 million people underemployed or unemployed in australia) Many people will simply take what they can get.
Simply put these big businesses are 'un-viable' and simply make themselves seem viable by stealing from their underpaid employees. They then give that money to super wealthy assholes who don't care.
But the reality is 80%+ of small businesses are unsustainable.
Due to competition profit margins came down to nearly 5-6% which means in order to beat the normal employment
you need a business that turns over 1.5 million dollars a year!
And even at that point business owners are likely be doing 50-60 hours a week.
Tell me how many small shops are turning over 1.5 million a year.
If you were to shut down so called un-viable businesses in Australia the country will collapse and everyone who works at these business will be unemployed.
Well isn't that the argument that Henry Ford would put out of business horse breeders and shoe smiths. What would future generations do?
Prostitution
simplify the whole pay process, it is hard to work out if your pay is correct when tax deducted can vary, pay rate can vary, deductions can change. Hell, you almost need an accountant just to check your pay each week.
If your pay slip does not list your gross pay (before tax and deductions), or if you don’t receive a pay slip at all, that is also illegal and you can report that to Fair Work. There should be no difficult calculations (except maybe a multiplication of your hours and pay rate) required to check if your gross pay is correct.
If your question is whether your company has deducted the right amount of tax, then the tax tablets or calculators will help. However, even if they deduct the wrong amount, it’ll come out in the wash come tax return time.
In terms of correct deductions, it’ll depend on the nature of the deduction. If it’s something you ask for (eg salary sacrifice for super) you should know what you’ve asked for. If it’s something else, then check your contract - they can’t willy nilly include deductions.
What do you mean exactly?
The activities you are describing are illegal from an employer's perspective (and if the employees are not declaring this as income and paying tax on it, it is illegal from their perspective as well). Any person with suspicion (or better yet, evidence) of the activities you are describing can report this to the relevant authorities and it will be dealt with according to the law.
The reality is that parties on both sides of this equation have always, and will likely always attempt, to operate in the black/grey economy in the way you have described. The law exists and is fully operational. Parties who operate in this way will be dealt with by the law and as we have seen, can be dealt with harshly.
I'm not sure what else you can do than create a law, establish a reporting and investigation framework, and prosecute and punish those found guilty of illegal activity … when both parties are at least somewhat complicit in the behaviour.
Psssp.
OP is just trying to push the victim narrative of employees.
Just play along.
Yes. Employers hold all the power and clearly the employees are modern slaves that have no choice but to accept the meagre coins tossed at their feet. Everyone needs collective bargaining.
Ah, sorry, right you are. Nothing to see here. Moving along.
Yeah, who are they to think they should be paid their entitlements. It all went downhill when they abolished slavery and the work houses. The problem is that the underpayment is very widespread and employees don’t have a lot of power, especially individually. The Government has demonised unions to the point where they are almost ineffective. Let’s screw a few more pennies out of the guy at the bottom so the guy at the top can spend a few more days in Hawaii. I agree with simplifying the system but this needs to be done in a way that is fair to both parties. There is a difference between the small businesses, on the margins, and companies like Amazon.
The problem is that the underpayment is very widespread and employees don’t have a lot of power, especially individually.
Of course they don't. Fairwork has all the power.
@[Deactivated]: Yeah, and Fairwork is showing just how good they are at this. Slap on the wrist with a wet lettuce. The real punishment is public opinion, when the underpayments come out, but even then the public interest spikes then dies off so companies just have to wait it out.
@try2bhelpful: So the underpayment is remedied, penalties issued and reputations tarnished.
You are unhappy that people have short attention spans.
@[Deactivated]: Yeah, all of this might be fixed short term until it dies down and they do it again. Given how widespread the underpayment is it doesn’t look like Fairwork are doing their job or the threat of them is making much difference.
@try2bhelpful: The issue is that across the economy, people are breaking laws all day, every day.
Whether it be in the underpayment of workers, dodging their tax, committing fraud, engaging in illegal dumping, carrying on the trade of illegal items, or simply disobeying the traffic laws, people will always look to flout the law.
You then move onto to people not fulfilling contractual obligations and there is always cohorts of people who just "do what they want".
So, we have laws to state what is illegal and in the specific context of this situation the minimum amounts that workers must be paid. The law is clearly spelling out (even if it is very complex as others have pointed out). The penalties for non-compliance are very clearly spelled out as are the avenues for complaint and ultimate prosecution.
The issue then turns to whether or not you want to increase the nanny statism and red tape that exists over so much of business. If your view is that the current arrangements are not working, you have only two avenues available to you …
Further increase the penalties for non-compliance in the belief that these are deliberate (or at the very least willfully negligent) acts by employers and that those increased penalties will create a greater disincentive for non-compliance.
Require all payments to staff to go via some sort of third party clearing house that takes in timesheets (and equivalent and other ancillary records) from staff to calculate their payments, makes the necessary payments from the employer's account, and verifies that all payments are "correct". Then the employer, by definition, cannot be guilty of under-payment as the clearing house has accepted all liability for calculations. One wonders what the additional cost of such a service would be?
Either way, the scenarios above require that both parties to the employment arrangements do not agree to operate in the black/grey economy. Otherwise, you're talking about some monolithic government instrumentality that will be raiding businesses to determine if everyone is adequately on the books in scenes reminiscent of visa compliance checks.
So you then ask yourself if people are willingly breaking the law in order to save on costs, will the imposition of yet more laws and compliance (and their attendant costs) yield a higher or lower level of compliance?
@Seraphin7: erm, "Otherwise, you're talking about some monolithic government instrumentality that will be raiding businesses to determine if everyone is adequately on the books in scenes reminiscent of visa compliance checks."
isn't this what used to be done before legislation was passed by big business to gut the agencies that enforced them???
employees don’t have a lot of power, especially individually.
Wrong, they have all the power. Don't like the job? Walk away. The business will eventually run short on the pool of avaliable candidates.
Remember folks, employers need employees.
ofc, employers don't make the laws, don't pay the legislators, don't have total control of the market and make us lowly employees struggle. Why would a system like that exist. It's almost like the laws made to protect the poor, and the powerless from the rich and the powerful are made by…the rich and powerful.
What can we do???? plz enlighten us.
The legislators have two things to consider.
Whilst it is true that campaign funds are instrumental to staying in power, and said funds are predominantly donated by the wealthy hence the employers, it isn't the only factor.
Equally as important to retaining power, the power to legislate, are voting blocks.
Which do you think is a larger voting block, employers or employees?
There. You've been enlightened - there exist such a concept as the balance of power. A concept many self proclaimed underdogs seem to willfully overlook.
If the employees happily accept those terms, then there should be no recourse to the employer.
Too many times we have seen all these Dominos and 7-11 workers happily accept those terms to work in Australia, then when it suits them they will complain loudly and cry foul. You cannot have it both ways.
If you don't like it, don't accept the job or the conditions. Walk.
I don't care about underpaying, I see it as market forces at work.
LOL until it happens to you…
how would it happen if you refuse to work for that amount of money? tsunamisurfer is right.
No pizza for you then buddy!
@lltravel: Your small one shop restaurant is most likely dodging taxes and underpaying. Don't try being a hero because even if you buy vegetables at your local green grocer a few dollars have disappeared into private expenses here and there.
@netjock: I would never be dumb enough to open a physical store in Australia. I own properties overseas and an online store.
I couldn't care less about taxes. The less I can pay the better. The way our government spends our dollars is pathetic.
If only you actually knew how many millions are wasted.
Keep licking the boots mate.
@lltravel: LOL one of those people with no skin in the game, just likes to beat everyone else up. Why don't you move overseas? Or have you got something against that other government too?
LOL at accusation me licking boots. It is okay to be tight fisted but just don't say it out loud. You make yourself sound like a free loader.
Tony Abbot isn't pay you to make these comments is he? Because it seems like he is at war not only with Labor but also his own party.
@netjock: Having properties and having a business is completely different
Don't worry I plan to move when I retire. :)
I pay taxes in two countries so not sure why you're having a go at me
I am saying learn the system so it benefits you.
@lltravel: Just because I don't brag doesn't mean I don't know the system.
I find it is the ones who brag have the least idea of what they are doing.
Also when I say those who don't have skin in the game I meant exactly the type who is going to take off when they retire.
Also you say you pay taxes, from your prior post you sound like you are not happy about it. Don't try to appear whiter than white now.
@netjock: name one person who actually enjoys paying tax? You would rather your money go to our corrupt pollies? no thanks
If you actually knew how to run a company you will know that the less tax you pay the better
Look at Apple, Google, etc. The biggest companies in the world and pay the least amount of tax. They didnt amount that amount of wealth by paying the max amount of tax possible.
@lltravel: Well it isn't like you are a benevolent charity.
You sound like the type that will avoid tax then raise your kids to do a degree on HELP (or whatever it is called) then skip by moving offshore then pretend to make $0 (so don't have to pay it back) yet post about their extravagant holidays on Instagram
Everyone dislikes paying tax but we just don't have the same level of anger borderline violent reaction that you have. I feel sorry for you any tax above $0 give you a violent allergic reaction that might end your life.
IF I knew how to run a company? Wow. It makes me sound like I know nothing. IF you have nothing good to say, you might know to say nothing at all.
You are not really contributing much here other than how much you hate paying tax and how smart you are with manipulating your taxes.
No point talking about tax if you don't make a profit. Actually no point doing a business if you can't pay people legal pay and make a profit. Might as well take your capital and put it on the index because at least you get a 4% dividend.
Because desperate unemployed people can't just afford to "refuse to work".
There is a massive power imbalance between wealthy employers and the poor unemployed.
The unemployed often have NO CHOICE but to accept any offer simply to survive.
Most people who accept these wages are international/immigrants students who have no way to fight for better.
And of course it flows on, especially to the younger peoples.
People who are supportive of these practices would probably not be so supportive anymore if they lost their cushy real full time employment and had to work one of these shitty jobs once they realise how hard it is to gain a real living wage job.
I see it as scum being scum and they cry foul when it doesn't benefit them anymore.
He probably owns a few 7-11 and Domino's franchises.
Most people who accept these wages are international/immigrants students who have no way to fight for better.
Yes they do, we have seen it. It just that they choose to keep quiet for as long as it benefits them then keep the cry foul trump card for when they find something better or get a visa or whatever the goal.
They are as much of the problem as the employers, they are happy to be a part of the machine to undercut the award rates, it takes 2 to Tango here.
If underpayment is such an issue and all methods of enforcement has been failing, maybe it is time to try a curve ball.
Penalize people who accept underpaying contracts.
@[Deactivated]: Yeah, that is such a good idea - shoot the victim. Well it would reduce the number of victims. We could apply that to all walks of life. We’ll fine you for walking through a park; there might be a mugger on the path. The issue is more why are they being offered these contracts in the first place? There should be a pro forma on what a persons award would be for a particular area. Is there a review place that someone can take their contracts to so they can have that reviewed and their entitlements explained. Maybe that is something Fair work can look into.
@try2bhelpful: But are they victims if they did it willingly? No Dominos / 7-11 Proprietor has been accused of putting a gun to an employees head to work for less. All these 'victims' have gleefully gamed the system then when the time is right tried to claw back all lost entitlements.
Also these underpayments are not written in contracts.
They range from not recording some work hours, typically overtime hours thereby diluting their hourly rate, to the more direct policy of requesting that the employee pay back in cash some of their wages.
None are written down as policies, all of these are agreed to by both parties. None of these 'victoms' will ever give you a straight answer as to why they didn't take action at the first instance of untoward behaviour by the employer.
@try2bhelpful: If a person does not sign an underpaying contract, they would not be underpaid and hence would not become a victim.
People do not start with a default "victim" status.
@[Deactivated]: Ah yes it is their fault because they accept an underpaying job when nothing else is available to them.
All this does it take away more real paying jobs when no one wants to pay a living wage. I am sure you are a business owner, investor or in some cushy pointless job so it doesn't really matter to you. It is easy to see disadvantage people actually having a choice.
I guess it will continue to be an issue until we stop bringing unskilled people in to just work jobs that shouldn't exist if employers don't want submit to 21th century standards.
accept an underpaying job when nothing else is available to them.
Sounds like the employee should be thanking the employer.
I am sure you are a business owner, investor or in some cushy pointless job…
Trying to discredit an opinion with identity is just petty.
Also, not many people become business owners by doing pointless things. It's not how the world works, regardless of what the "battlers" want to think.
@[Deactivated]: Yeah the employer is a real saint for offering underpaid and probably unsafe work. Yeah thanks.
I suppose we should all be kissing the feet of those big faceless companies that manufacture products in 3rd world countries because they provide them employment.
At the end of the day it's fine for you because it probably doesn't affect you in any way. Are you happy working getting underpaid or because you have better options you don't have to? Not everyone has it that way sadly.
This might be obvious… but they should not be working in the first place because of visa restrictions (let alone other barriers like language etc). Perhaps we should be asking for the visa conditions to be changed so there are no work limitations? or not granting restricted visas in the first place? similar restrictions are in place for young workers, for child labour protection.
If they wish to work illegally, no employer would take the risk hiring them when they could hire someone legally. Some employers may take the risk at a cost (wage difference/off the books etc), which creates the grey economy. Both sides are happy, but legal employees may see this as jobs being stolen. (but realistically many of these jobs would not exist if the wages were legal, once again risk tradeoff).
The problem is some "selfish" illegal employees, attempt to have the cake and eat it too, by bringing up the "illegal conditions" when it suits their purposes (e.g. visa restriction changes). They get sorted out by Fair work. But this increases the risk for the illegal employers who either have to exit the grey economy (not worth the risk) or build in the risk in their hiring (lower the wage further). Both situations causes existing illegal employees to suffer.
It is not an easy situation to resolve, because people (on both sides) seem happy to skirt the law when it suits their purposes, without changing how visas work (which has other consequences) and our labour laws. One of the easier solutions is just to make contracts enforceable so as long as employees are doing what they are paid for and getting paid for it as promised/contracted all is good. But some people see this as unfair when it suits them.
Sorry, for the long post. Logic just leads to logic for me.
TLDR: Both sides are responsible, people are selfish and circumvent laws intentionally.
When they get PR.
The "free market" doesn't take into account why people want a job. And usually it's to have shelter, food, etc. We aren't all filthy rich assholes. People take those jobs out of desperation.
as long as a cash economy exists, this will never change
You can also underpay in the digital economy, it is just different ways. Uber is one example. Airtasker doesn't enforce minimum hourly wage with you can't bid less than $20 per hour on jobs etc.
Having a set min wages is great, but only for native English speaker. If you are a new migrant or international student trying to pay some bills, your job application won't be entertained by employer at all. Why get subpar employees when you can get degree holders for the same rate. That's why the black market exist, for those deem unworthy, but willing to lower his/her pay expectation to have a shot at making a living.
Here we go the "lesser" people argument. I'll use that in the parliamentary committee meeting next time regarding CEO salaries and see how it goes down.
A lot of those people are on ‘student’’ and ‘travel’ visas with limited or no work rights and do what they can get. The work rights should be increased so they are on a level playing ground with oz workers, paying tax on their income and their super can be claimed when leaving the country
level playing ground with oz workers
Is this good for Oz workers? It might be good for the donor class, might be good for the political class, it might be good for the employer class, but its not good for Aus workers.
The farmers always bullshit that they can’t get people to work from Oz but if they paid them proper wages and super it would be a different ballgame. Besides the farmers, many industries are rife with cashie employees and dodgies with visas - hospitality, service and food processing to name a few. It’s easy to say ‘DEY TOOK OUR JEBS’, which they have, but expanding their work rights might give them the confidence not to accept shit pay and conditions, improve their quality of life and give them better protections.
@DemocracyManifest: I'm not against people traveling and working here.
I just want them to pay for any Gov services consumed here.
Really ALL kids should be streamed from high school to either trade school or uni.
But the Labor/Gillard party came up with the idea anyone can do a degree (by dropping education standards via uncapping degree numbers) and thought that if everyone did a degree somehow we would all be wealthier. All it really did was just drop white collar wages and stop people doing trade school.
@Ti-au: If you are a tourist you don't get access to any of the social benefits but you still pay 10% GST on everything you consumer and considering we're a driving nation, petrol excise.
If you are a back packer on working holiday there is no tax free threshold on income.
Is it not enough that your home country paid for all the infrastructure and subsidized your education and now you go to Australia and working and paying someone else taxes.
Are you missing that much education? We need to get people like you off the internet and use the internet money to put you through a proper education before letting you back onto the internet with the general public.
If you are a tourist you don't get access to any of the social benefits
Actually you do - you take a taxi to the Hotel. Well you have just used a road paid for the tax payer.
And if you get injured you are using Australia's medical facilities - which tend not to be paid for when people go back home.
Nor do they pay any fines incurred.
And of course they get additional services provided to the taxpayer - police, ambulance, etc.
Is it not enough that your home country paid for all the infrastructure and subsidized your education
So the home country pays for its own roads and for educating its own populace. Ok.
and now you go to Australia and working and paying someone else taxes.
Yet you use the infrastructure and facilities while you are here.
We need to get people like you off the internet and use the internet money to put you through a proper education before letting you back onto the internet with the general public.
Considering HECS pays for a university education I don't really see the point of using "internet money" for more education.
I assume you never travel or do you send a cheque to the government to pre pay your social benefits?
"tend to not pay for" that is just hearsay. I am sure a few Australians do the same thing overseas.
Use infrastructure and facilities why you are here. The tourist who paid air port levy, taxi driver for services and fuel excise is not tax and not paying while they are here?
Obviously given how you comprehend information HECS was wasted subsidy on part of the tax payer. You really didn't value it much did you? Maybe you should take your internet money and have a second chance.
I assume you never travel or do you send a cheque to the government to pre pay your social benefits?
So you admit that there are social benefits that tourists don't pay for? Thats my point. I accept that I may get more benefit when I travel overseas than what I pay in taxes.
"tend to not pay for" that is just hearsay. I am sure a few Australians do the same thing overseas.
About 45-55% of medical expenses incurred by foreigners are Not paid. So a little more than hearsay. You can Google the stats if you want.
Australians may not pay either, but many times the overseas hospital won't allow them to leave without payment.
I would encourage ALL Governments to place a tax on the aircraft ticket which covers the cost of medical treatment for ALL foreigners.
Use infrastructure and facilities why you are here. The tourist who paid air port levy, taxi driver for services and fuel excise is not tax and not paying while they are here?
Obviously given how you comprehend information HECS was wasted subsidy on part of the tax payer. You really didn't value it much did you? Maybe you should take your internet money and have a second chance.
HECS is actually paid back so its not a wasted subsidy, on the contrary, considering smart but poor people can get qualifications and high paying jobs, they will in fact pay more money via taxes, as well as paying back their HECS, so its the complete opposite of a wasted subsidy.
Further since I never claimed HECS for my qualifications but paid out of my own pocket through having a job, your point does not apply to me.
Perhaps you could do us all a favor and hopefully using your intelligence, which has not been on display, tell us what "internet money" actually is.
I am not admitting there are social benefits tourists do not pay for. I am asking you a question based on your logic: do you send a cheque in advance to the government of your holiday destination? You sound like you do. What I am implying if that you are single direction free loader. You believe tourists coming here are consuming for free, while you go on holidays and it is ol'right mate!
I am trying to say non payment goes both ways. Don't just think because you're Australian you always pay more. It is a kind of class discrimination.
You seem to believe you should try to get every cent from everyone else but just how much do you pay? It is the question to ask yourself. Stop pointing fingers at everyone else because you believe they are not paying. If tourists are such a drain on our incomes then why does Australia run ads to promote tourists to come to this country? I think you have a serious arithmetic problem.
HECs is paid back but it is only part payment. If you actually understand the system why does universities prefer full fee paying students? Because the subsidy from the government + your HECs payments does not equal the full fee they are charging.
You need a serious week of unconscious bias, self awareness and financial training.
@coin saver: Why?
The State & Federal Government collect taxes and provide funding/grants to local councils.
This provides anywhere from 75% to 25% of council revenue.
So in fact its also their roads.
@Ti-au: I was being sarcastic however I see no difference between council boundaries,state borders or countries. Would you believe that the residents of one council near me are trying to make their Christmas Carols for ratepayers only.
@netjock: "If you are a back packer on working holiday there is no tax free threshold on income." true but you only pay 15% on the first $37K of income where an Australian resident must pay 19% for income over $18.2k plus medicare levy of 2% a total of $4312 tax as opposed to $5550 for a backpacker if both earn $37k.
So why do Australian farmers prefer backpackers?
EightImmortals on 29/01/2020 - 09:28 Comment score below threshold.
