PayPal Scam - Chargeback $1450

summithunter on 18/01/2020 - 22:54
Last edited 01/02/2020 - 13:06

Hi All,

Seeking desperate help for a paypal chargeback/scam. ( Will try to be as brief as possible)

I had sold a brand new sealed phone on eBay in Sep 2019 which was paid by the buyer via Paypal. My ad on eBay clearly stated that there are no warranties or returns accepted. The buyer then contacted me within 10 days advising that mobile had battery issues when I provided him an Invoice to have it repaired or replaced directly from the manufacturer. I assumed the issue was sorted as I havent heard back from the buyer in Sep.

Buyer had then lodged a case with his financial institution 2 weeks ago advising the product I sold was defective and not as described.(Please note mobile was brand new and sealed). Paypal contacted me and I had provided all the required info as described above and today I received an email from Paypal with a note as per below

" We've been working with your buyer's credit card provider to dispute your charge back case. Unfortunately, the card provider has decided the chargeback in the buyer's favour "

I have been on the phone with them and they have not been of any help.. they advise that the decision has been made by buyers financial institution and the buyer had the right to dispute this within 180 days of purchase. Paypal is advising me to court or contact the buyer directly which i have tried but his phone number is no longer working.

My paypal account is now in negative since last 2 weeks and have already started receiving calls from collections .. who also threaten me saying my there will be a default lodged against my name if I dont add funds asap.

P.S Buyer hasnt contacted me/ returned my mobile which is deemed to be faulty, his account on eBay is no longer operative and paypal has declined to contact the customer on my behalf.

Looking for suggestions how i can further dispute this ?

UPDATE : Below is the hopeless response from PAYPAL post complaint .. Would never deal with them again !

Thank you for contacting PayPal. As you know, one of your buyers filed a chargeback against you with their credit card company. Unfortunately, the credit card company has decided this case in favor of your buyer, and we had to reverse the transaction from your PayPal account.

Generally, a credit card company will only require the buyer attempt to return merchandise or make the item available for pick-up. Should a buyer satisfy this requirement, the chargeback could be found in their favor. If the option is available, we still attempt to dispute the chargeback with the credit card company. Our Seller Protection Policy covers claims, chargebacks, or reversals that are a result of unauthorized purchases or items your buyer didn’t receive. In this case, your buyer claimed that the merchandise they received was different than originally described, and this type of claim is not covered under PayPal's Seller Protection Policy.

We’re sorry you experienced a problem with this transaction and encourage you to contact your buyer directly for resolution.

Note:

If a transaction is eligible for seller protection, it will be marked as eligible or partially eligible on the Transaction Details page. If it is marked as partially eligible, you are only protected for items a buyer didn’t receive.
To learn more about fees and how we investigate transactions, click Legal at the bottom of any PayPal page and then click PayPal User Agreement.

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.

Sincerely,
Amanda
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal

Financial

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Comments

  • whooah1979 on 20/01/2020 - 09:48
    -1

    A chargeback is sometimes the last and best protection for buyers. We had to use it when this seller failed to supply a bulk order.
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/340541

  • XC3LL on 20/01/2020 - 10:51

    Hope you get it resolved. How many ebay feedbacks did the buyer have OP? Or was it a new account?

  • wannagrababargain on 20/01/2020 - 12:43

    As this is a Chargeback, which is mediated by the credit card network (Visa/Mastercard). The chargeback decision itself would have been made by Visa (or Mastercard). Paypal is just acting as a middle man. Had the buyer initiated a Paypal dispute, this would have been mediated by Paypal and you would have the option to request the phone be returned.

    The buyer has done a virtual runner which is suspicious in itself. You have to deal with them privately now. You sent them the phone so you must have their address? Send them a strongly worded letter of demand to send the phone back, threatening to take more legal action if they don't comply. (Hopefully the threat of action is enough)

  • ryurazu on 20/01/2020 - 16:33

    Nothing you can truly do however report this to the (state) police, you'll be force to make a police report with all the detail maybe a hassle, but i think it worth it for a 1.4K item.

    As the item is technically yours, sadly that is Ebay and PayPal are nincomepoops for all i care but i still have to use them cause there basically the only game in town.

  • Porker on 20/01/2020 - 17:05

    Doesn't give me any confidence in relying on paypal as a sellers service…. or ebay as a platform.

    • ryurazu on 20/01/2020 - 17:36

      well when they avoid taxes like a dog and then try cutting cost, what do you think happens. I believe their (ebays) return policy changed recent not sure if that was only in the US or international. Still gonna play the game.

    • jimbler on 01/02/2020 - 01:38

      Welcome to 2008

  • Gizzhead on 20/01/2020 - 19:27
    +5

    If you’re proceeding with issuing a LOD and going to small claims court, you might be able to find the buyers real address if you know his real name. Go to the AEC and look him up on the electoral roll. You’re not allowed to write down anything from the electoral roll there, but if you just memorise the address and write it down after you leave the AEC you should be fine.

    Did this once on advice from LegalAid when a gumtree seller didn’t send an item or refund after a bank transfer. Found out he had a different address to what was on his drivers license. Sent a LOD to him and also one to his mum (got her name from his Facebook friends list and looked her up as well) to advise what he did. He sent my money back a few days later.

    Good luck mate

    • techlead on 20/01/2020 - 21:47
      +2

      Nice move contacting his mum.

  • Whyutrippingfam on 20/01/2020 - 21:31

    Contact ombudsman and lodge a complaint. Paypal will contact you in a couple of days to resolve the issue. Calling them wont help you at all.

  • dufflover on 20/01/2020 - 21:35
    +7

    Plot twist! whooah1979 is actually the buyer …
    :P

  • alphaoasis on 20/01/2020 - 22:07
    +2

    Similar thing happened to me a year ago. I sold those Coles little shop mini collectable for $5. The buyer even left positive feedback. Few months later, there was a chargeback by the buyer's financial institution. I sent the buyer message saying you have already left positive feedback for the same transaction and why would you chargeback but there was no reply. It seemed the kids bought the item from their parents ebay account as the item was for kids. The buyer may have not recognised the transaction and did the chargeback even though it was just $5.

    Though the amount wasn't much, it worries me when selling things of greater value on ebay. Some people are so cheap for spending their time calling up their financial institution to dispute just the $5. The transaction on their statement clearly shows it is from paypal or ebay and yet they still don't have the time to check their purchase history.

  • Numlock on 21/01/2020 - 00:34
    -3

    Dude never use paypal for these one off transactions unless you go through ebay. Always cash cash!

    • forrester on 21/01/2020 - 01:51
      +1

      Umm, you'll probably need to get your eyes checked because that's exactly what they did…and it still went wrong!

      • Numlock on 21/01/2020 - 09:16

        Oh that's alright. Seller protection is there too. Things usually work themselves out when dealing with ebay.

  • netsurfer on 21/01/2020 - 08:03

    This was/could be an eBay scam and PayPal's seller protection is a complete joke. A dodgy buyer did something similar to me before. He kept quiet for 30 days, then just did a charge back from his bank. Zero communication, PayPal didn't give a damn. Not only PayPal did not care whether I get the item back or not, a full refund was issued.

    The sad reality of selling on eBay is that eBay and PayPal expect you to provide OfficeWorks like service when things gone pear shaped. The buyers have so many ways to screw you. Some buyers/scammers really go after popular / expensive items.

    It comes down to how much effort you want to put it to chase this. Court won't take this - because $1450 is not enough (I know it is a lot, but to the court, it is not high enough) so you need to go through small claims tribunal.

    A couple of things though: (1) when a buyer complained about item not as described, if you cannot assist him/her fixing it, it is best to go for full refund route (I get the fully sealed item is now opened, but these things could happen). You are selling a brand new item, expecting the buyer to go warranty service right away for a brand new item is not right, especially for such an expensive item (2) you sent the item so you have the address right? Hopefully, he/she still lives there. Try to get the item back (assuming he/she lives in the same state).

  • thesilverstarman on 21/01/2020 - 08:15
    +15

    Ok. As a seller I have had similar happen to me.
    Firstly, contact paypal and ask for the other persons bank name. Then contatc that bank, by email, and explain the situation. Explain that this appears to be fraudulant as the new phone was not returned. Tell them that unless they refund the mioney that you will be be going to the ombudsman. Remember that the banks have just been through a royal commission, and that this sort of behaviour is on the nose. Then if they dont, go through the ombudsman.
    Next thing is to contact ebay, again by email. Explain the situation, and that it appears that you have been the victim of fraud, and ask them to resolve the issue for you, as you have paid them fees to facilitate the sale. If they do not, look up the main office address of payal. Its in California somewhere. Then look up the Better Business Bureau in that area and lodge a complaint with them. ebay takes their reputation seriously, and you may find that they will end up making a refund to you as a good will gesture. This is common.
    Also contact paypal by email, and explain that you request them to contact the bank and to help you recover the money, as it appears that the buyer had committed fraud using their service, and if no luck, go to the Financial services ombusdsman and lodge a complaint.
    Also, go to the Aus Federal Police Cybercrime page and report the crime. They will reveiw and lodge it with the relevant state police, who will contact you. If you get no satisfaction, go to your local police station and tell them that you want to lodge a report (you have a right to lodge a report, regardless of what they say). Take all information you have, as well as all information that might identify the buyer.
    Also, report the iemei of the phone. It is stolen so report it as such.
    Doing all of this is a lot of work, but you will get action. You will have police reports, and a trail of emails (always email, never call, so you have a paper trail). If everything fails, then you still have one thing left. The media. Contact current affairs shows and your local paper. Shaming companies always results in good will.

      • netsurfer on 21/01/2020 - 09:01
        +2

        An online transaction gone pear shaped really badly is not going to be simple to resolve.

        If you have a much simpler solution, let us know.

        The basic idea is to get the other parties involved into this. They just washed their hands and did the lazy way out, it's not right. One of them might provide a good will credit. The amount is too high. Otherwise, eBay may pay the seller out and end this mess.

        I think OP may need to pay PayPal the money first though. It's possible PayPal might still charge a transaction processing fee.

    • a20c87 on 30/01/2020 - 21:46

      Would PayPal actually provide the buyer's bank name? I though they'd keep that private.

  • trev likes bargains on 21/01/2020 - 11:03
    -3

    Bikies

  • screensaver on 21/01/2020 - 12:17

    are they in the same city as you?

  • dojomojo on 21/01/2020 - 12:48
    -2

    Keep in mind we're only getting one side of the story here. Maybe the phone really was defective & OP refused the return.

    • luffyex2010 on 21/01/2020 - 13:39
      -1

      😬 are you saying there is a posibility OP is trying to get away with crime. Scammers/Crooks coming to ozbargain for advice lol what an interesting theory.

      • techlead on 22/01/2020 - 09:42

        The OP is trying to get away with the crime of losing $1450.

  • playswithfire on 21/01/2020 - 14:00

    The buyer then contacted me within 10 days advising that mobile had battery issues when I provided him an Invoice to have it repaired or replaced directly from the manufacturer.

    I'm guessing the buyer has returned the phone for a full refund and gotten the chargeback as well.

  • this is us on 21/01/2020 - 15:34

    Reading what happened here makes me think that I might become a victim of the same scam soon…

    I sold a used smartphone on eBay last month. I started an auction from $300 and a "buy now" option for $400.
    Someone bought the item using the "buy now" option, without any bid for the auction. That was a bit weird but I don't have experience selling items on eBay so I just followed the steps…
    The buyer never contacted me. I only got an automatic message with an address. I sent the item using eBay system, item was delivered, everything perfect. I got my money released by Paypal/eBay after the item was delivered.

    The item was used and no warranty was offered but based on OP's case I wonder if the buyer could just wait a few months and open a case saying that the item was not as expected, or something like that, to have the money back (and keep the item).

    I'm considering unlinking my Paypal and eBay accounts so eBay doesn't chargeback… Would that be helpful, or pointless?

    • John on 21/01/2020 - 17:40

      If they open the case with eBay you'll be alright. In the OP case the chargeback was done by the banking institution, which is incredibly stupid on the bank behalf for allowing a scam to go through so easily. If they do the same to you, its pointless to unlink the Paypal and eBay.. because the relationship in question here is between the Bank and Paypal. And you can't unlink these because its not the bank in your account, its the bank the buyer use to pay you paypal account.

      However, I think you don't need to worry. Buy it now at $100 above auction seems reasonable for a phone. U0nless $400 is ridiculously above the market price, then you may wonder why someone is willing to pay so much way above market price. Otherwise its more likely someone just can't be bothered to go through the bid process and just happy to pay the extra $100.

      • this is us on 22/01/2020 - 10:45

        Thanks, good to hear…
        No, the phone was not overpriced, but if I was the buyer I'd offer the $300, particularly considering that there was no bid. People behave differently and that's fine.
        I did search for the name and address of the buyer, and I double-checked some information on Google before sending the item. Everything seemed to be legit.

    • techlead on 22/01/2020 - 09:44

      The amount is too low, people usually do these types of scams for $1000+ items. Its not about volume because each time they do it, they risk getting caught, so they are not going after small fries, they need to make it big enough to worth the risk each time, so you should be fine.

      • this is us on 22/01/2020 - 10:46

        Yes, that makes sense… Thanks.

    • netsurfer on 22/01/2020 - 10:52

      I'm considering unlinking my Paypal and eBay accounts so eBay doesn't chargeback… Would that be helpful, or pointless?

      Pointless. It wasn't eBay which did the chargeback, it was PayPal.

      Used phones being scam is less likely. If people want to scam, they would scam a brand new item. Risky items to sell on feeBay are: digital items, vouchers, gift cards, and latest flagship smartphones. Most of the buyers are good, but there is an increase number of scammers. Some would even hack feeBay and PayPal accounts to make scam purchases (so even doing a buyer feedback rating check is not enough to prevent scams).

  • frodoballbaggins on 21/01/2020 - 16:56

    If i were you i'd go down to the cop shop & explain to them what happened, they helped me out years ago when i got scammed on Ebay

    • shadowangel on 22/01/2020 - 14:10

      What does the seller have ? An address and name ? these guys use forwarding addresses and fake paypal accounts more often then not.
      Chances are it's already on a boat to <Insert country>

  • Lucky13 on 22/01/2020 - 17:24

    A similar thing happened on Ebay with me some time ago. Basically sold cream designer suede boots on Ebay, looked perfect, sent off. Then got complaint from buyer that there's a black mark on them and they want a refund. Gave them refund and they sent them back with this brand new black mark on them that wasn't there before. Admittedly this wasn't the kind of $'s your talking about, but kind of gave up selling on Ebay after this. Basically buyer obviously got them, didn't like them and put a mark on them to say they were faulty. Whatever, selling on Ebay is definitely not in the favour of the seller that's for sure.

    • techlead on 24/01/2020 - 09:42
      +1

      I'm sure the big retailer get this all the time. They take it as the cost of doing business.

      • shadowangel on 01/02/2020 - 02:19
        +1

        it's not as common brick and mortar stores, online transactions are treated differently and are much easier to dispute and win.

  • summithunter on 01/02/2020 - 13:08
    +1

    UPDATE : Below is the hopeless response from PAYPAL post complaint .. Would never deal with them again !

    Thank you for contacting PayPal. As you know, one of your buyers filed a chargeback against you with their credit card company. Unfortunately, the credit card company has decided this case in favor of your buyer, and we had to reverse the transaction from your PayPal account.

    Generally, a credit card company will only require the buyer attempt to return merchandise or make the item available for pick-up. Should a buyer satisfy this requirement, the chargeback could be found in their favor. If the option is available, we still attempt to dispute the chargeback with the credit card company. Our Seller Protection Policy covers claims, chargebacks, or reversals that are a result of unauthorized purchases or items your buyer didn’t receive. In this case, your buyer claimed that the merchandise they received was different than originally described, and this type of claim is not covered under PayPal's Seller Protection Policy.

    We’re sorry you experienced a problem with this transaction and encourage you to contact your buyer directly for resolution.

    Note:

    If a transaction is eligible for seller protection, it will be marked as eligible or partially eligible on the Transaction Details page. If it is marked as partially eligible, you are only protected for items a buyer didn’t receive.
    To learn more about fees and how we investigate transactions, click Legal at the bottom of any PayPal page and then click PayPal User Agreement.

    It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.

    Sincerely,
    Amanda
    PayPal Chargeback Division
    PayPal

    • Samsungnote10 on 02/02/2020 - 16:07

      Amanda would have the easiest job in the world,
      Essentially cut and paste that reply to anyone who complains.

    • Lucky13 on 04/02/2020 - 02:14

      Wow what a reply. Sorry this had to happen to you. Paypal definitely isn't in favour of the seller that's for sure. Ok if you're a buyer though, so essentially you can just get a free phone on Ebay then :/

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