Summary:
I already purchased a block of land and 80% of people have said it was really stupid because i'm going to get into a scenario where I get married and she will steal half my investment.
Wanted to know others thoughts about this topic or if you have any previous experience/advise
Just relatives/friends. Wasn't a poll, they basically mentioned the negatives above.
Good luck finding that elusive partner if you listen to that "advice".
Love conquers all.
Prenuptial ?
@cameldownunder: We have binding financial agreements in Australia and as soon as kids become involved they become meaningless.
@cameldownunder: A Prenuptial is a good start but a better option would be to just get a partner who has a good job, shared values and similar net worth.
BTW OP, your friends/family are nut, don't listen to them. Live your own life. And even if everything does goes wrong she'd take half your cash anyway. you might as well invest that cash now and hope your property doubles in value. keeping cash in the account makes no financial sense.
@deal seeking missile: Speaking from personal experience and hindsight I completed agree with this advice from "deal seeking missile"
@deal seeking missile: That's what I did. Not a prenuptial, but partner with same values ( despite different views )
Can it conquer the BBC?
Wasn't a poll, they basically mentioned the negatives above.
It's your decision, do not let the voices of others rule your life.
Be protective of your own assets, and find a partner who also wants to do the same. Those who don't see eye to eye with these things are not worthy of Mjolnir being your partner
For example, I've been called "calculative" before, yet every time I do it, it's always out of principle.. and to the other party's benefit.
Yep always interesting when the "principle" happens to align with the other party's interests. And by interesting I mean suspicious if not entirely transparent.
You hang around some pretty negative people.
Precisely my thought!
Why do you need to get married? It's just a traditional thing to do because it's expected. These days it's not necessary and almost 75% of marriages end in divorce anyway. Seems pointless to me really as a religious ceremony. If you love someone what difference does getting married achieve. Don't focus on it because other people think that's what you should do, live for yourself and take everything as it comes.
Yes, the number cause of divorce is MARRIAGE!
Well said, although the rate of divorce in Australia is roughly 33% of marriages and down in the past decade.
actually 100% of lives end in death.
just sayin' …
You are completely correct.
…but, even if you haven't done a ceremony, the term is 'de facto' which means the same thing in terms of division of assets (and many other things under the law). It generally applies proportionally the longer you are together (as decided by a court…)
Generally, children who come from married couples tend to do better in almost every area of life due to the added family stability. Marriage has more exit costs so it often means the parties are less likely to split up. Statistical data tends to support this idea. As do other studies. And so on.
There's a reason the government got involved in the marriage business. It's good for tomorrow's workforce. When someone says "I don't want to get married", sometimes they mean "I don't trust the person I'm with to inherit my assets or I don't love them enough to tie myself down".
It's not for everyone, but marriage definitely has a sacrosanct part in a functional society. The anti-family progressive movement has encouraged a position of selfishness and narcissism which blocks people from seeing it.
Just relatives/friends. Wasn't a poll, they basically mentioned the negatives above.
Yes, listen very attentively to your relatives and friends as they are and move in the same environment as you do.
It is their experience and should be treasured.
Ignore most of the nonsense comment put here about negativity.
The truth is only one but most people don't want to accept it so they fantasize about what they would like facts to be.
Your family and your friends live in the same world as you do and their opinion should be taken very seriously.
As you already bought the land, keep it, don't fire-sale.
Don't invest one extra cent that can be taking away by an unscrupulous partner.
If you start a relationship that goes serious, sell the land BEFORE any commitment.
You will know of a good longstanding serious relationship when there is an agreement that shows commitment for life not until "I divorce you and take this and that".
Discussing wishes like hospice or home care, cremation or coffin, resuscitate or not, is a good guidance of someone honestly heading for the very long run, not a quick cash grab as it is so common.
Did you forget to add the /s at the end of your post? That's a very jaded outlook, and implies that he shouldn't trust his partner - which is a perfect attitude for a relationship to end acrimoniously.
A healthy level of trust is essential to any solid relationship. If your gut says you can't trust someone, then you shouldn't be in a relationship with them at all, let alone a long-term one.
@andresampras: I am not the one asking for an opinion. Are you?
The OP has a concern, those concerns are valid.
I am also addressing the validity of the advice given from those that know the OP and move or are in similar environment.
The OP is not even in a solid relationship but rather ready for the picking. Alert not alarmed.
I am not the one asking for an opinion. Are you?
If you offer such a strong opinion to the OP and someone disagrees with it, you shouldn't be surprised if someone replies to your post. This is how forums work.
It's unclear from the original post whether the OP is about to marry someone that's going to steal half his money, or if that's just a possibility his relos are warning against. I assumed it was the latter scenario, since if he's about to marry someone he believes is going to steal his money, he's got more serious issues to consider.
You say alert not alarmed, but you also tell him to stop developing his investment and to get rid of it before he gets married. If that isn't alarmist I don't know what is.
If you offer such a strong opinion to the OP and someone disagrees with it, you shouldn't be surprised if someone replies to your post. This is how forums work.
Not quite.
First it is YOUR post I am addressing and not "someone disagreeing", vague and obscure.
Second YOU offer unwanted advice to me regarding my potential relationships. This unwanted advice from you may indicate you are seeking reassurance to your believes and opinions. As not being too sure if they are right or wrong.
Finally a forum works by expressing an opinion with reasons valid to the poster and NOT criticizing someone else opinion or reasons as you are unfortunately doing. As trying to discredit my opinion with your believes.
Regarding the OP request, as friends and family had an strong opinion such strong opinion should be treasured and listened to by the OP.
You don't have to listen to their opinion, it is for the OP.
It is interesting to read so very different polarized opinions about "when divorce happens".
Clearly posted by the winners or the others. Pity we don't know who they are … but I have my suspicions …
@LFO: Alright this has gone off on an unfortunate tangent.
Just to be clear, the only thing in my first post aimed at you was that in my opinion, it was jaded. The rest was me typing out my thoughts aimed at the OP. When I typed 'you' and 'your' what I meant to say was 'someone' and someone's.
Sorry, wasn't trying to attack you at all.
whether your money is in a bank or tied up in property a DE-FACTO can still take 50% :) THIS POST IS is strange..
Some advice is to never leave any proof of a relationship.. time stamped videos, pictures.. BE A GHOST and you can always claim you never met the person :)
100%
Infact, I recommenced never talking to other people, because one might invite you out to coffee one day and then you will have the social pressure to buy a drink you would have otherwise not bought. Next thing you know they will want you to buy food to eat with them…
Gotta keep that money locked up!
A good AI is so much cheaper, especially if you can get free electricity by living with your parents at 30.
and then the meal leads to another, and watching movies together, and spending more time together and then getting in love and then they own half of your block of land.
half your possessions regardless of the form of them; land, house, $80k car, motorbike, yacht etc
.
One of each shoe? I'm stuffed if so!
Don't forget half your heart :'(
Sex you pay for is cheaper than the one you don't.
@cameldownunder: Everyone pays for sex…. some ppl pay in drinks, dinner, houses and bankruptcy when the divorces comes.
@cameldownunder: The first 10 years of my marriage the roots were cheap on a per unit measure but but the last 10 years it would have been cheaper to hire Jerry Hall on a "when required" basis.
@jackspratt: He'd be paying a motza.
I'd love to know how much James Packer "paid" for a few tumbles with Mariah as well
@brad1-8tsi: my favourite moment on late night TV many years ago - the David Letterman Late Show broadcast ‘live’ (recorded at 5pm) around the world from New York City - on walks Nicole Kidman, sits down and says 'so Dave - how about a ROOT !?'
I nearly fell off my chair - she scans the audience, sees one guy presumably Australian with jaw dropped like mine, and points and says laughing 'HE KNOWS !'
Dave looks nonplussed and mumbles 'you mean like a cheroot … ?' (to smoke)
this was when she was married to Tom Cruise - I'm sure he put her up to it - saying 'trust me Americans won't know'
@Hangryuman: Actually Nicole Kidman comes from a very dodgy background well before Tom Cruise. Just google her father. One particular complainant said that Nicole as a young teen was also in the room at times when the complainant was being abused by Anthony Kidman, a child psychologist. It never went to court because Anthony fled Australia and suicided not long after. > https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/antony-ki…
@cameldownunder: There's an old crude saying. If it flies, floats, or f***s, rent it.
I don't subscribe to that strategy, but I can understand people who have been stung before would.
the feels :(
Genuinely curious. So only your money in the bank doesn't get the halfie-treatment in that scenario?
No.
This thread was born out of lack of financial education.
Get a prenup. The family law property division is truly unfair on anyone who gets married bringing assets to the relationship when the other party has nothing.
Exactly what I mentioned, however i've heard from multiple fourms that prenups mean almost nothing if someones in a defacto relationship/married.
Common scare campaign. Always run from split finances and have a prenup. The applicant for property division needs to show that it is just that there be a division to enliven jurisdiction. Will really struggle to do this if your finances are always split.
It isn't just a scare campaign at all. the problem with prenups is both parties have to have clearly agreed to it with neither side having an advantage over the other and with independent legal advise. prenups are VERY easy to beat unless you have spent a lot of effort and time putting them together, they are basically just free money for lawyers.
She can claim she was "forced" by you to sign the prenup.
Then the prenup becomes as good as a toilet paper.
One can claim all they like. Good lawyers will make sure each party takes independent advice; and there is no prospect of raising duress. The cases you read about where duress is established are plain as day and quite different to what would be expected for parties negotiating in good faith for their future relationship (eg. https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/judge-throws-…)
@kipps: Okay, but if kids are in the picture the judge can easily ignore the prenup "for the benefit of the children". And will probably give at least half custody to the mother. Even without duress.
@sigmaspace: Really not sure where you’re getting this idea from. There is a statutory regime to tell the courts what they have to look at in setting aside a prenup. It is not as simplistic as you suggest - the prenup must be shown to be unjust or inequitable. Just because children exist does not meet this criteria. Your understanding of custody is also demonstrably wrong - there is no bias toward the mother as suggested or at all.
@sigmaspace: Are we discussing division of assets or custody of children as both issues are dealt with separately (as is the actual divorce).
Are you in the legal professions or have you actually been through the process yourself?
I guess that makes every contract invalid then?
@magic8ballgag: Only applies in divorce courts, where woman's feelings are more important than the law.
I had a girl break up with me after I said we needed a prenup if she wanted to move into my house (after 4 months of dating).
Her lease was ending and she had to find a new rental. Asked if she could move in and I said sure, but we need a prenup. She huffed and puffed and said I didn't trust her and we ended up splitting over it.
In QLD 6 months living together means you are defacto. To get a prenup it needs to be done before the 6 months, and you each have to go to different lawyers to get it written up and agreed to (costs around $800-1200 each). You just list what assets you are bringing into the relationship that wont be shared. Generally after a few years the prenup expires because then you are considered 'together', although you can get a new one written up.
I'd HIGHLY advise getting one before a partner moves in with you, as once they have moved in the can easily refuse to get one, and you can have trouble trying to kick them out.
Dating/Relationships gets complicated when you (and/or your partner) have a bunch of assets, which is much the case at my age (35y/o), but it is something you just have to work around as adults, and in some cases can show a persons true colors. The law about marriage is fine when you are both young and have no assets, but as you age there is a lot you stand to loose.
how's that working for you ?
recent thread here on OzB had the majority saying in marriage you share everything, and if you start out keeping your finances separate, that's a relationship killer.
I suspect from most females' perspective, if you start out saying you want to keep your finances separate, they would interpret that as meaning you don't expect the relationship to last, and would see that as a reason to walk away.
So you'd get to keep your money but you'd lose the girl.
Of course if you have happy story to report - please do !
@Hangryuman: It wasn't so much the house, but more that most of my capital is tied up in a business that I am part owner of and have been working on for ~9 years now, which would ruin my job/career if I had to sell out of, because of a girl I'd known for 6 months.
End of the day the way she behaved over the whole thing was so ridiculous and childish it made me wonder why she even liked me. Her argument was that I didn't trust her, where as I thought it was a sign of trust for us both to do it. Turns out she had TONNES of student, personal, car and credit card debt. That was her reason for not wanting to do it because she would have had to outline it all in the prenup.
Regards to 'hows that working for you?' Its fine. That was the only relationship where it was an issue. IN the last 6 years I've had 2 other relationships lasted ~1-2 years that had no issues in signing a prenup, and when they ended we didn't even bring up the prenup because we were adult about it and sorted it out ourselves. Prenups don't just protect me, but also protect them.
The whole keeping finances separate thing is not the reason for it. I just don't think that 6 months is long enough to trust someone with half of the saving and work I have done over the last ~15 years. The government does however think so, unless you sign a prenup, so I'm just following the law of the land.
pretty sure these aren't recognised in australia. splitting expenses and documenting it along the way is a better approach.
for an asset, assign its ownership to a corporation/trust/smsf and it won't be at risk
I have heard this before.
This is really good advice.
No, it's really bad advice worth every penny you've paid for it.
Trust assets, super assets and companies are pooled too. All those tricks don’t work.
Let's flip it. When a younger woman marries an older man, is it really fair for the older man to leave with the money (and asset growth) he brought into the relationship when she will have lost her youth?
Though true, aggrieved husbands and their immediate family won’t see it that way. Greed and egoism are mental illnesses without cure.
lost her youth
Genuine question, but what does that mean? And how exactly is it lost?
Thank you.
She went into it as a gold digger. She tolerated (profanity) an old dude. Her youthful activities are limited being a closed relationship with the old dude. The OP reckons it unfair to block the gold digger from digging.
unfair to block the gold digger from digging.
too crude. More like, effort and sacrifice requires reward, prorated. Maybe that sounds familiar - you work? Best part: everybody knows the deal - prenup’s unnecessary.
@AlexF: & @Punknerd & @This Guy: Man, if someone goes into what they see as an unloving, barely-tolerable relationship for what could be 4-5 decades of their life expecting a prize at the end, then "lost youth" (whatever that really means) is the least of their concerns. They've already lost so much more.
If it makes sense to buy property why not?
Are your family and friends assuming that you will have more net assets than your other half?
As above,
All assets will be shared regardless of form…
You could get a prenup.
Correct, is there any alternatives to a prenup?
yep, burn all the money and assets before the divorce.
could also be the reason for the divorce but you know cycles and all…
Prenups can also deal with spousal maintenance claims (i.e. pay outs to come out of your future income).
You can get truly nailed in Australian law by getting married.
@kipps: If there's no kids there's no future payments :)
As screwed up as the Aussie system is its better then the US with divorce alimony where you pay your partner some of your income even after you split.
Its the reason we no longer have Robin williams in this world. " alimony "
Put it into crypto and get "hacked"
Talk to a lawyer.
Marry someone who already has their own property so you can share in their property too.
Someone with a better property!
True OzBargain spirit there
Actually that's pretty smart! So even if you do break up with the other person, you get half their shit and they get half your shit, which basically means you're equal!
lol - yairbut perception is reality - when you break up, each tends to regard the other as the bigger shit.
What if you meet a girl who owns a more valuable piece of land?
The dream :)
Get searching then!
It's not that difficult to find a girl with land or property if that is what you are worried about. Otherwise go and see a lawyer to help you out with this one but it sounds like friends and family are just jealous you've made it into the property market and planting ideas in your head.
So you have no issue gaining property for yourself thru marriage, but not the other way around?
If you start thinking about marriage as 'stealing' your investments then probably don't get married and don't get into a relationship.
Perhaps start with trust.
The divorce rate is 50%. Blind hope doesn’t protect the OP here. There are stats coming out suggesting that couples who have frank discussions about finances and have a prenup are actually more likely to succeed.
Speaking as someone who has been through the process - your advice is just plain bad.
There are stats coming out suggesting that couples who have frank discussions about finances and have a prenup are actually more likely to succeed.
would love to see that
I am not a gambling man, but 50% chance of losing half your assets after years/decades of overtime is horrifying.
Where did you do the poll to ascertain that 80% thought you were crazy?