Washing Cars Is Rigged

It makes no sense at all and there's absolutely no consistency to it. I've followed all the 'rules' of car washing to avoid scratches and swirls - used a pressure washer, pre-wash detergent to loosen dirt, light scrub using 2 bucket method (and even 2 seperate microfiber cloths to avoid dirt buildup in them), then gently dried with a quality soft sponge by simply dabbing and picking up water instead of wiping to avoid risk of aggravating scratches.

Car is as clean as the day I got it but wtf - take it out in the sun and there are hideous, blatant scratches and swirls in isolated parts. Some are even clusters of very deep scratches. It's almost like the car was hosed down with nails and coins.

I tried to do it myself because I don't trust hand car wash places. Even though I've never had any big problems in the past with my old cars, just the thought of how they operate doesn't add up to me. They wash hundreds of cars a day, usually employ young foreign people who are most likely getting minimum wage, and I can't imagine they thoroughly wash their tools/cloths often enough to avoid dirt buildup. But they seem to always wahs my cars with minimal to no damage. I don't know how, but I guess I'm just not made to wash my own car.

Does anyone else have this problem or am I just cursed? What could possibly cause so much damage during washing despite taking all the necessary precautions and then some?

Comments

          • @SlavOz: Mustangs don't have to have 98RON. Have you got something extra special tuned under the bonnet?

      • -1

        Your maths is so far off it's probably not from this reality.

  • i'm curious to the colour of the op's car?

    • +1

      Silver, or in marketing speak - "gun metal"

      Thankfully, it's probably the best colour to hide scratches so you really can't notice them unless you look up close from an angle, but still knowing they're there annoys me. I used to own a black car and that's when I just gave up. Just sneezing on the car put noticeable marks in it.

      • if it passes the 6ft rule, its nothing to worry about.

        the 6ft rule is as follows: if you cant see it (the scratch) from 6ft away, its not there.

        • +2

          Glad you explained that rules, but do you have a metric equivalents?

          • +2

            @Euphemistic: Mathematically speaking, it's 183cm but some guys out there will tell you they're 6ft tall, when they're only 180cm.

            • @[Deactivated]: …wait, you can do that?

              • @jacross: Sure can. My passport says 181 cm but I had a number 1 cut at the time. Now that I'm back to growing my thick, curly hair….I tell people I'm 6ft, with no guilt whatsoever :)

                • +1

                  @[Deactivated]: i always tell people "i'm 6 foot 6 inches… but that's two different measurements."

                  • +1

                    @Antikythera: Is that when they threaten to call the police?

                    P.s: There was a survey that was carried out way back in 2013 where 75% of respondents said their former lover was better endowed than their current one. The grass is greener in the ex's patch or whatever the saying is :p

              • @jacross: Yep, also doctors have measured me shoes on and shoes off ( different doctors ) and then had different measurements

            • @[Deactivated]: Im 182 :(

              • @abuch47:

                Im 182 :(

                …Which, as my wife just pointed out, is 5.97113 ft . When rounded to 1 decimal place is 6 ft :)

                • +1

                  @[Deactivated]: 5'11.5" I like to call it or 6'1 with any shoe.

                  • @abuch47: 182cm = 5′ 11.6535″ or 5.9711 ft :)

        • -1

          Why would anyone in Australia, or you know any country which isn't third-world dumb united states, know how the hell far away 6ft is!?

          • -1

            @HardlyCharly: You seriously don't?
            I thought everyone in Aus could do both metric and imperial. I'm no wizz on the 16ths etc., but I certainly know how far an inch, foot and mile are.

          • @HardlyCharly: 1 ft is 300mm 🤷🏻‍♂️

            • @Jugganautx: Actually its 304.8mms. You can even see on your ruler that 12inches is greater than 30cms.

          • +1

            @HardlyCharly: Not being able to convert units from metric to imperial/vice versa is equally as dumb as using the imperial system as the primary units.

            reminder that we only officially cut over to the metric system around 30 years ago, so plenty of people (even a few millennials!) grew up using imperial. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Australia

            its also quite handy to know purely because other countries (that you may visit one day) use it, and being able to roughly convert units is helpful when trying to communicate with people from those countries.

          • @HardlyCharly: Because im 6ft 3 tall.

  • Unless it is a hand finished Uber Luxury or Exotic. It would have swirls, orange peel etc from factory and may have been hidden under some polish. That has worn off and exposed them more so.

    Get it wet sanded etc and start again. Unless it only gets driven on weekends etc, you are setting yourself up for a life of misery.

  • What car is it, sounds like a cheap paint job on a cheap car, I have a 12 year old BMW and other than some stone chips on the bonnet the paint looks still like new

    • +2

      I don't think you're looking as closely as OP

    • I recently detailed a ~12 year old black BMW, that wasn't super looked after, I was pretty impressed with the quality of the paint and lack of scratches and swirls.

      I've read that most Japanese cars use soft paint and German cars use hard paint, not sure about any other countries/brands.

      So I think that scratches and swirls are mostly to do with the hardness of paint as it came from the factory. If you have soft paint they are probably unavoidable and if you have hard paint they are nothing to worry about.

  • Swirls might have already been there before you bought it (even if it is brand new!). It would take quite a lot of abuse to end up with "hideous blatant scratches and swirls." I don't even bother with a "2 bucket method" or pre-washing anymore and my black car has no more swirls in the paint than it did after the last major detail 18 months ago. Either the car was already like that, you have ridiculously soft paint or there's a flaw in your system somewhere.

    Make sure you use a linear motion, not a circular motion when washing or drying. You say you wipe off bird poo and bugs instantly but how are you doing this? Is it with the same care as your regular washing? If you have a decent paint sealant and provided it's not like 35 deg outside, you can wait until you get home to do spot cleaning.

    How dirty do you let the car get before washing? Do you wash to a schedule or based on dirt accumulation? Do you feel like you need to 'scrub' a lot to get the dirt off? It should take no more than one linear pass of your washing sponge over an area to clean it. Use a high lubricating wash (not a sudsy wash) and make the pass with little pressure, letting the sponge 'glide' over the paint using the lubrication of the washing liquid to protect the paint and lift the dirt while the microfiber grabs the dirt particles. There shold be very little 'scrubbing'/'elbow grease' involved in any part of your system.

    Do you maintain any kind of wax/sealant on the paint? This helps greatly in stopping dirt sticking as much thus making washing an easier process and less harsh to the paint.

    • +1

      The whole use straight motions instead of a circular motion to avoid swirls is a common misconception. Swirl marks ARE NOT circular, they just have the appearance of being circular due to how the light hits the surface and is focused on one point, but in reality they're a whole bunch of straight swirl marks. If you look at a close-up of some swirls, you can see this. Here are some examples I found by just googling:

      http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/2047…
      http://www.exclusivecarcare.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11…

      Here's a more in-depth description of it:
      https://itsbetterwaxed.com/blogs/detailing-tips/84453124-wha…

      • Yep. That's why you scrub in one direction consistently, to try to minimse the damage, trying to make it that the swirls that are there are only seen from certain angles of viewing rather than visible from all angles.

        • I would agree with that. I believe that the real OCD detailers also advocate a certain direction depending on the panel to minimise it again from commonly viewed angles. If I remember right, for horizontal surfaces eg. Roof and bonnet, use only side to side motions while for vertical surfaces like doors, use up down motions.

  • Never do my own car cleaning any more, inside and out. I pay $60 a month just for the outside wash(unlimited washes). Occasionally get the inside cleaned too. It comes down to how well the water is filtered, those DIY places aren't the best with filtering. After being in the car industry in my early 20's, went down the route of car detailing for job. From 30 years ago, and everything has changed, the chemicals, machinery. You just can't clean at home like the pro's.

    • You just can't clean at home like the pro's.

      This couldn't be further from the truth. You don't need all high tech tools to get fantastic results. A detailer will always be limited by time whereas a ho. E detailer can spend as much as they like.

      $60 a month just for the outside wash(unlimited washes).

      I could only imagine the quality. I'll do 1 exterior wash for that with a spray sealant.

      My paint towels will only hit a vehicle once before being washed so not to cause cross contamination. These unlimited places use the same dirty rag all day.

      From 30 years ago, and everything has changed, the chemicals, machinery

      Many of the same principles, chemicals and machinery still exists. Probably the biggest change is the movement to sio2. What do you think has significantly changed?

  • +3

    Doesn't matter, nobody notices or cares about your car or paint. If it's an OCD thing you're screwed.

  • Did you buy your car brand new and not a stock that sat in the yard for weeks? Is your car german (harder and thicker paint, e.g. my 8 year old vw golf mk6 r was sold with minimal swirls) or other makes (my 1 week old mitsubishi got swirls sooo easily and my brand new but old stock toyota came with micro scratches and swirls due to dealer mishandling).

    Btw i spend so much money and time in diy detailing. So when i see swirls or water spots, 99% of the public would say i am crazy.

  • Hey, I used to work at a car wash during uni. I can with certainty that we contributed to swirls to the cars we washed. Cars were usually finished with a gloss product that hid these swirls and gave a "sparkling shine". I suggest you try using a clay bar as well when washing your vehicle. It won't get rid of the swirls, only way to do that is to get it detailed with a proper cut and polish.

  • wash the car down with water, use clay bar and soap to remove contaminates, wash car with soap and micro fibre material, dry car properly, buff/polish clear coat to remove swirls and then wax the car. indeed a very long process but if done right and parked in a garage car can look great for months

    the scratches and swirls are caused by imperfections in the clear coat that is reflected by the sun, u need to buff/polish to even out the surface of the clear coat

  • It's a car oh well it's going to happen no matter how careful you are. If it really bothers you, get it detailed every few months or get it wrapped

  • -2

    Two bucket method, always wash your sponges (I chuck mine in a socks and jocks load.)

    • Two bucket method suggestions start off well

      sponges probably the number one causes of scratches. I'm hoping you mean a microfibre sponge

      I chuck mine in a socks and jocks load there is many reasons why you should never mix your microfibre with your laundry. You are destroying them

      • Yeah certainly not a shitty yellow foam sponge!

        I'm curious as to your comments on washing them though; I really don't see how throwing them through a wash is any worse than dumping them in a bucket of dirty water?

  • +1

    its not rigged mate

    you aren't washing it correctly

    • wash from the top down
    • wash panel by panel

    for eg:
    roof first
    side fender
    door
    rear fender
    repeat otherside
    hood
    front bumper
    rear end of car
    lower side skirts

    make sure you rinse your cloth after washing each panel

    I have done it this way for years and haven't swirled by car

    Use a spray on wax such as duragloss aquawax when drying. It helps alot

    Enjoy

  • +2

    I feel you. My car has horribly thin paint. I did all the snow gun + 2 bucket + clean microfibre cloth and still had light swirl marks. I decided to fork out ~1000$ on a ceramic coat. It makes cleaning easier as I never have to touch the paint - (snow gun, blow dry). This process is good enough for light dirt and the ceramic coat helps in making the paint shine, irrespective of light dirt. I take it back to the ceramic coat detailer for a maintenance wash every 2 months ( costs about $60).
    You can't avoid it after a while. My hood has a few stone chips that I can't unsee, but I forget about it whenever I take it for a spin up the mountain roads.

  • +1

    I used to be like you, but as others have said above. The moment you get that first dent, stone chip or decent scratch, you won't have the same dedication to perfection.

    • +4

      Or when some idiot decides to open their door into your car, that's when you give up. No matter how hard you keep it clean you just can't control the rest of world

  • Maybe try waxing it with Maguires premium quality wax. Most of the swirls should be filled and disappear. I like Maguires products; they seem to do a great job.

  • Buy a silver car next time.

  • I'm confused. Did you get the car detailed to remove the swirl marks already, and then carefully cleaned the car only to find swirl marks?
    Or are you washing your car carefully and hoping the swirl marks go away? Because they won't.

    Invest in a DA orbital buffer and give your car a polish yourself, apply ceramic coat and then do what you're already doing. Swirl marks will happen regardless eventually. But they just won't be as bad if you're careful with the washing like you've mentioned. And you'll only need a one stage correction at the detailers, rather than a 2 or 3 stage if the scratches are bad.

  • OP thought washing the car the proper way would remove existing swirl marks

    • No, I never said that. The car definitely didn't have any noticeable swirl marks when I bought it.

      • Thehb you must have not washed it properly

        • +3

          Obviously. That's why I made this thread. What's your point?

          • -1

            @SlavOz: The point is you didnt wash it properly

      • Or they put some kind of wax on it which hid it. Then come the first few washes, the wax went away and you start to see them. Personally, I was shocked to see the state of the clear coats of some cars in a BMW dealership. Brand new cars sitting in the showroom were full of scratches and swirls. Obviously, there was some cross contamination with the microfibre…

      • It did. The delivery process (the crap you do when you receive your car) is designed to excite you about the car's 'features' and keep you from looking at your paint for the first few weeks of ownership.

  • +3

    What do you mean by usually employ *Young foreign people , Are you an Aboriginal to say that ??

    • -1

      No, but I speak fluent English and was born to Australian citizens. If someone can't say either of those things it's fair to assume they're foreigners.

      • +2

        So first generation Australians are not Australians?

        • Weren't they British convicts?

      • +1

        It still does not give you the right to call someone else a foreigner, They might be more educated than you are that's why they are here as students or on skilled migrant visas and not queuing up at centre link like some others.
        Learn to respect everyone mate.

        • Learn to respect everyone mate

          You don't. You belittled OP for not being woke. You realise OP's name implies OP is a 2nd or 3rd gen migrant from a non English speaking country…

          It would be nice if you respected internet strangers as much as you respected this latest philosophical trend.

        • lol so you admit a person matching my description likely is here on a foreign visa, but I should be ashamed of myself for calling them a foreigner? OK mate.

          You're either too woke for your own good or don't know the definition of a foreigner, because if you did I'm not sure why you would assume it's an insult.

    • At the end of the day we're all foreigners. Some of us have families that have been here longer, big deal. I hear some have ancestors who've been on this island for 40-60k years but they too were once foreigners.

      Anyway I'm from Earth where humans create geographical boundaries to discriminate and then call people from other bounded areas foreigners. When I go overseas I get called a foreigner and so what.

      Then you go on about these "foreigners" being more educated than OP.

      What's your point Chefdillu?

      I think OP was just stating their view and there was nothing malicious in it - just a comment. Was it necessary? Probably not but your response is all high and mighty.

      So you provoked OP and get the response you wanted. Well done - so clever.

      You don't have to be aboriginal to be permitted to call someone else a foreigner.

      You old/medium/new foreigner!

  • +4

    Good on you for taking an interest in cleaning your own car. Most people are lazy and just take it to be washed at the shopping centers or even worse, those drive-thru ones.

    I think you first need to decide to what your expectations of the final result are. Are you happy with a car that looks clean from a distance? A car that looks great from 12 feet away? 6 feet away? etc. If you really want to depress yourself, look at the car indoors using a bright LED light. You will see imperfections in the paint you never knew were there.

    Once you establish that, you're going to find out how much time/cost/effort it will take to achieve it.

    Ceramic coating is pretty popular right now (I'm very happy with mine) but even that isn't perfect:
    - Its benefits are mainly for ease of cleaning (stuff doesn't stick as much and comes of easier). But if you let layers of contaminants form from infrequent cleaning then the ceramic coating is going to be buried under all the gunk. I personally clean my car weekly/fortnightly and not everyone is willing to do this.
    - Its benefits wear off over time (anywhere from 1 - 3 years depending on conditions, products, etc).
    - It can be pretty pricey to get it professionally done (around a thousand for a good job). You can shop around for better value ones, but be mindful of quality and reviews
    - still requires proper cleaning techniques and regular cleaning. It doesn't make your paint scratchproof despite all the marketing you see.

    This is what I personally did with my car but its not going to be ideal for everyone. It's just to give you an idea of what could be done:
    - [once off] new car sent to professional detailer for paint correction (yes, even for new cars). Then it was ceramic coated (single coat). I think this was about $600-$700. But I have a really small car.
    - [every 1 - 3 months] I added what's referred to as a 'topper' product. Its another coating which is temporary (these can last 1 - 12 months). This sits on top of your existing ceramic coating. You can also choose to start using such products when your original ceramic coating starts to fade. I apply this myself.
    - [weekly/fortnightly] I live in an apartment with no access to a driveway. So when I wash my car, I have to use those DIY coin wash places for spraying only. I do not use the brush. I do not use a cloth for cleaning the car because all the gunk washes off with just the spray. I dry the car with microfiber towels. If I pick up any more stains from my short drive home, I will clean them off right away using a waterless wash product (much safer than using a quick detailer).

    Other options you can consider:
    - foam canon
    - 2-bucket technique
    - automotive blower for touchless drying (like 'Big Boi' or etc)

    • +1

      Do you mind sharing the name of the "topper" product on top of your ceramic coat?
      I almost purchased a Big Boi but my detailer said a 60$ bunnings leaf blower will do just fine.

      • +2

        I use Car Pro Reload.

        I also use a leaf blower for the mirrors, grills, wheels and petrol cap. I will get a Big Boi in the next six months beause the leaf blower doesn't quite do what I want it to. It's ok for those detailed reas but too hard to dry a car.

      • +2

        Sure thing. I'm alternating between Car Pro Reload and P&S Bead Maker.

        Reload lasts longer. It's got SiO2 in it, same active ingredient as the ceramic coatings, doesn't seem to work too well on the glass of my car for some reason.

        Bead Maker seems better at keeping grime off the car. It's Polymer based and it's easier to apply than Reload.

        Neither are terribly pricey, maybe try them out for yourself.

        Hope that helps!

        • +1

          Thanks heaps, going to try the Car Pro Reload after my next wash!

      • +1

        I love my Big Boi Mini - I used to have a standard cordless leaf blower (Ryobi) that was just for drying etc. and it worked well. Ii received one of the Big Boi Buddi hand held units as a gift and the difference was night and day.

        I recently upgraded to the Mini as I found holding the Buddi was a PITA after a while and having the hose was a lot easier with the mini.

        I now use it to dry 99% of a whole car for most of the cars I detail, for others it's just the grills/mirrors, fuel caps areas etc. and it's one of my most used tools.

        Sure, the garden blower did the trick but the $299 tag, for me, was well worth it for the mini.

        And Reload is fantastic, a great product. You could also check out the Nv Jet product, as well as the Nv Boost spray as well. Both amazing products, Aussie company etc.

        • Nice, good to hear the Big Boi doing well. I messaged them a few weeks ago concerned about warranty and they said it was extended to five years for domestic use- which is on par with competing products. I want the pro!

  • As a lot of people have said, the swirls could have been there from when you got the car. But also look out for your technique, make sure your buckets have grit guards and you're washing in a straight "up-down, left-right" style and never wash in circles as that will cause your swirls. Check out Bowdens Own on YouTube or Instagram, they're an Aussie car care company and go into great detail on how to minimise swirls and scratches when washing your car :)

  • Is your car black or dark coloured? I have given up on detailing my car.. Black is the worst colour.. Gets so dirty fast. You can see every swirl and scratch mark.

  • Plenty of active detailing forums. Eg. Autogeek, autopia, detailing Central.

  • Heres what you do mate.

    Hand wash with a clean bucket of clean water, car wash and a hose with trigger nozzle.

    After its clean use a clay bar over any particularly tough stains or dirt thats clung to the paint. Just go over the entire car to be sure.

    Give it a final rinse and hand dry not with a sponge ( which is a nightmare because the pores hold specs of dirt and dust that can scratch your paint), but with a microfibre shammy. Meguires makes really good ones. After ota dried completely apply a proper wax by hand and a different clean cloth and bam. Perfect paint job.

    Never mix cloths and once they're worn out throw them away because the fibres start to hold onto dirt.
    Dont bother with sponges at all for anything.

    Deeper swirl marks can be fixed by using polishing compound with a soft cloth like a terry cloth.

    Dont use cheap microfibre cloths becayse they will rape your paintjob instantly.

    • +1

      After its clean use a clay bar

      You should only clay as needed. Once a year should be enough. By claying you remove the existing protection. You are also causing micro marring. You will need to polish to remove the marring caused and then add a protectant.

      microfibre shammy.

      These are two different things. A chamois can be either natural or man-made. They act as a squeegee on the paint. No reasonable detailer would recommend one as any missed dirt gets trapped between the chamois and the paint causing scratches

      You want a 70%Polyester/30%Polyamide blend microfibre, high pile, edgeless border and a size which suits you.

      terry cloth

      microfibre replaced these nappy decades ago. I have detailed for over 20 years and terry towel cloth which is cotton does not belong in my arsenal

      Don't use cheap microfibre cloths

      Totally agree but also don't use sponges, terry towels and chamois

  • it only takes the smallest rock, or piece of … something, to get caught in your sponge or wiping cloth to completely ruin your paint job. swirl and scratch city.

  • When you've thoroughly washed the car, with a wash mitt using the 2 bucket method and decent products just go over the whole thing with spray on detailer.

    • -1

      What are you expecting the quick detailer to do? It will only add gloss

  • I had that issue with my black Hyundai. My blue and dark grey Skoda's since have had paint protection on them installed prior to purchase and I no longer have that issue whatsoever.

  • Lmao don't get me started, you never win!!

  • I'm foaming/2 bucket/touchless drying the thing and I've still get swirls/scratches - there's no escape.

    • -2

      I might see how the car looks with just a touchleas wash - ie pressure washer to rinse, snow foam, let it sit, then rinse off again. Maybe some light dabbing with the dryer to pick up excess water. If this cleans the war well enough I might make it my usual wash method and only do a more thorough cloth/wipe clean every few months.

Login or Join to leave a comment