I'm saddened to read about so many dairy farmers going out of business. It's obviously desirable to have Australian milk to buy in the future! Farmers cite the price of feed and the drought as reasons, but also pricing activities by supermarkets. Apparently it's not the supermarkets that are entirely to blame. It's also the processors who buy milk from farmers and then on-sell to supermarkets. Is the answer simply to buy non-supermarket branded milk? Is there anyone out there with answers on how to best support Australian dairy farmers to ensure a sustainable local business model?
As Consumers, How Do We Support Dairy Farmers?
Lhammy80 on 06/10/2019 - 07:52
Comments
To an age pensioner like me,it is a luxury item.
That's a dairy good idea.
Cool story
Milk no longer profitable at current price in Australia
Individual farmers go out of business, large companies pick up some slack to meet demand
National demand not entirely met, prices sky rocket to keep pace with international export prices where better prices are achieved
Import from NZ where it is cheaper
??
profit
I'm all for market forces but there's a big elephant in the room here and that's foreign ownership of large tracts of land, farms, and water here that are partially responsible for the drought, and a market monopolised by too few players. It's crazy (and somewhat frightening) to be that foreign powers can huge buy food-producing parcels of land and influence the prices we pay for things.
I would be happier if there were some limitations around land ownership in this country, and more importantly, water ownership, and then let market forces decide.
(PS - not a communist, dislike kool-aid, prefer Cottees Fruit Cup).
Replied to your post above before even reading this comment.
Seems like we're on the same page here.
The first thing is that we are not talking about some poor, oppressed & powerless group of people. There is a whole political party (National Party) specifically set up to push the interests of farmers, and the current deputy prime minister is from the National Party. I am sure Scott Morrison is working overtime on thinking about ways to provide handouts to dairy farmers.
Personally, I'm not too fussed where my dairy products come from, as long as I am confident that they are pure, tasty & reasonably priced. I would be perfectly happy to drink milk from the USA or EU, for example, if it is cheaper than Australian milk. And, in fact, I do eat butter from Denmark and cheese from Norway because it's tastier than Aussie butter & cheese.
Sure, but there's the impact on the global environment to think of here. Importing food from o/s results in more food mileage, and as a general rule, the fresher your food (ie. less miles it has to travel) the more nutritious it is.
the better for the environment as well.
If you're worries about the environment you shouldn't be drinking dairy milk anyway so…
That's also true.
How do you propose to get fresh milk from USA to Australia??? FMD!!!
If you want to support farmers, buy milk from other sources besides supermarkets. In supermarkets, buy cheese products as these are higher margin to dairy farmers
I have heard we're not paying enough for cheese either.
Yes, we should be eating a block of Australian cheese a day to help our farmers. And our GPs.
You cant, It's like saying how can I support the Aud/Usd from going down.
I think our buying power is just that: a power.
Lol, what the heck does that even mean
It means that what you choose to spend money on is a power of sorts. You can choose to support certain products/industries, or not.
Surely it's a matter of supply and demand.
So logically if dairy farmers are going broke, then there are too many dairy farmers supplying a finite market.
As dairy farms close there will eventually be an equilibrium where the number of remaining dairy farms are supplying what the market wants, at a reasonable price for both consumer and producer.
That makes logical sense, however the influence of our two big supermarkets distorts things a little. For instance, if consumers are sold the idea (via ads, etc) that $2.30 for 2 litres of milk is a reasonable price to pay, then processors take a cut, and farmers receive a fraction of that retail price (that ultimately does not cover production costs)… then we have a problem.
if consumers are sold the idea (via ads, etc) that $2.30 for 2 litres of milk is a reasonable price to pay, then processors take a cut, and farmers receive a fraction of that retail price (that ultimately does not cover production costs)
It's funny that are you asking people to pay more for dairy products, on a website that is dedicated to helping people to pay less.
I am not asking people to pay more for anything. Just interested in ways consumers can keep the dairy industry alive & supported.
@hammy80: You can support the industry well by buying long life milk on special around 90 c L using gift cards to get it down to 81c - 85 c a L .
It helps farmers get some $$$$$$$$ for all the surplus that overflowing the market .
Nice the retailers left the long life milk with no farmers tax , I guess strategic thinking to help clear supplies :)
I am not asking people to pay more for anything.
Literally, in almost every second comment you have said that you think dairy prices should be increased.
For example, here:
The farmers are not receiving enough revenue for their product,
Or, here:
but perhaps it does necessitate government strategy & heightened consumer awareness around sustainable prices
Or, here:
it also looks like consumers are not paying enough for milk in Oz
Or, here: (I am assuming you are quoting Jason Smith approvingly)
We also just need the general society to value our product and pay a fair price
Or, here:
I have heard we're not paying enough for cheese either.
And, finally, here:
if consumers are sold the idea (via ads, etc) that $2.30 for 2 litres of milk is a reasonable price to pay, then processors take a cut, and farmers receive a fraction of that retail price (that ultimately does not cover production costs)
@vikvance: Really, I started this thread with the idea that paying more for milk would fix the problem, but did not come with firm views on how this would/could happen - or even whether it was the best solution, or, if it was, which brands we should direct our dollars towards. Not much point paying more at the checkout if the extra $ stays with the processors, Parmalat & Norco, and doesn't reach the farmers. And really.. is it worthwhile putting thought into keeping the dairy industry afloat at all? The more I learn about the dairy industry's environmental impact, the less sure I am.
Australia is exporting 1/3 of the dairy they produce which is only a 6% of the international market. Compare that NZ which have a 40% market share. We should be producing and exporting more dairy.
Agreed. Good point.
So what is NZ doing right that we are not?
It rains.
We just have to protest for more rain.
Making more milk powder and baby formula and selling it to the Chinese market. I dont think there are any facts in my statement here, but should be a consideration and difference.
Their government has directed the land to have rich volcanic soils. By law the rain must fall reliably and in large quantities. They've also moved the whole country to a suitable latitude where they don't have to worry about subtropical pests.
For the great bulk of Oz, growing dairy for export would be like Sweden growing bananas for export. But we have been dumb enough to try …
Why?
We have 0% of the international nuclear aircraft carrier market, should we be exporting more nuclear aircraft carriers?
Dairy is water intensive agriculture and we are in drought with a river system that doesn't get enough water through as it is.
Just because there's a market doesn't mean we have to own it. Wouldn't it be better if the country spent that money encouraging people and industry to focus on areas we can do well in without needing ongoing subsidies and without overtaxing our natural resources?
We need to pray for more nuclear aircraft carrier sweatshops.
I buy trolley loads of baby formula and send it off to China. Unlike $1/L milk, this product sells at a premium and because it is going overseas it has the added benefit of not flooding our local market with an oversupply.
Whatever helps you sleep at night
"Is the answer simply to buy non-supermarket branded milk?"
It's certainly all I can think of, not that I would ever buy that bland supermarket branded crap in the first place, I don't know why anyone would, choking it down is not worth saving a single dollar or whatever. I've been in the situation of selling my own belongings just to pay for fuel and saving a dollar on milk never would have made a difference. I once bought a block of the coles brand cheese in a moment of financial desperation, and threw it in the bin after one taste. Revolting.
Nice you made me laugh :)
Upvoted yah , how dare anyone neg you .
Out of curiosity what brand do you buy?
I got 5 litres of A2 milk the other day for $5 instead of $25. My local always has the expensive short dated stuff on sale.
Normaly get the farmers own brands on sale most times.Yes it tastes diffetent to the Woolies brand.
5 l for $5 is cheap.
I'd shower in that stuff.
It should of read 5 x 2lt.
Where from???
Australians consume a low proportion of UHT milk compared to most other countries. Does anyone know what the benefits would be if more Australians switched to UHT? Less wastage and refrigeration costs are two that I can think of, but would it help in other ways?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27898-so-many-milks-b…
the idea was dropped because of fears consumers wouldn’t accept the taste.
Nutritionally, UHT milk is slightly poorer than fresh pasteurised milk; it contains around a third less iodine, and the quality of protein degrades during storage.
Because UHT milk doesn’t taste very good. I only use it if I run out of real milk and desperately want a coffee before heading out to buy normal milk. The UHT milk goes in the bin soon after. Seems like a waste, but I do buy the 6 pack of small ones for this purpose.
I used to buy UHT Milk (for years) by the box load, sometimes i would have 20 boxes in the shed, as it was basically .80c per Lt.
That was until the $1 lt milk came in, which made me me switch.
It may as well not be milk if that’s the way you are going to drink it. Soy or almond milk would be a better option.
Business failure is a terrible thing to experience and I sympathise with the struggle farmers are going though. However, the dairy industry had a good run with the decades of ads manipulating the population into believing milk is essential for well-being. Alternative 'milk' options are much better for the environment and possibly better for you.
Alternative? Can you be more specific and how is it better for you. Milk and dairy is essential for health.
Can you provide a source for milk and dairy being essential for health?
A massive proportion of people develop some form of lactose intolerance after infancy, so that doesn't point to milk and dairy being good for you.
Dairy has also been shown to have little to no benefit for bone strength, and one study has even shown that people who drank milk as kids suffer more bone fractures than those who don't.
Dairy consumption is also linked to heart disease and prostate cancer.
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/he…
A massive proportion of people develop some form of
A massive proportion of people develop some form of allergies and negative secondary effects.
It is not the milk, it is the people.@[Deactivated]: No. People are becoming intolerant of everything!
Peanuts, sugar, milk, meat, bread, tap water!. You name it.@[Deactivated]: Enough tolerance!!
We should tell food to get back where they came from.
That's it! I had it!;-)
If it’s essential how have many humans thrived without it for thousands of years.
The production of almond milk is very water intensive, hence not that great for the environment: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2015/oct/…
Dairy is still worse. And that's just water, there's also CO2 emissions, land clearing for cows, feeding the cows …
Not to mention methane.
yep. dairy is way worse. of all the non-dairy alternatives though, almond milk production uses the most amount of water.
source: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46654042
@hammy80: No argument there! I like to drink some amount of protein and not just almond residue water so I usually stick to soy
http://www.thepineskiama.com.au/
Maybethis, might be a good model to replicate going forward.
This is available locally, but it's not at every or most supermarkets.
It is very very expensive, but for the quality, I think it is decent value .
I often go through 2 litres of milk a day though, I don't think I could easily afford to always pay $6-$8 for 2 litres each day.
I do object to what woolworths and Coles did Ie. They gave nothing, absolutely zero, did they give themselves, they just take directly from customers, and probably even try to claim a tax deduction for their donation . Which is 100% from customers. I feel like they could have matched it, ie. I would be happy to pay an extra 50 cents per litre surcharge direct to farmers fund (for those struggling to get support, when they need it) I don't mind doing this, If the supermarkets matched my donation .
So because of this, I generally try to avoid woolworths or Coles branded milk, unless I really have to buy it, for financial/budget reasons at that time .But I think 'the pines' , is good model potentially, because even though their website says been round since 1860 or something like that, they have actually only been expanding and building new factory etc, in the last few years. If they are doing well, in times when others are failing and going bankrupt, there could be something in that to help other farmer struggling.
They seem to have a "micro dairy" . In my opinion, they do make a put out a far superior product..
There is a local cafe even, where you pay a $1 extra in your coffee for "The Pines" milk, and I'm ok with paying that sometimes, because it makes the coffee soo much creamier and nice.From the dairy industry: https://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/-/media/dairyaustralia/doc…
"In 2017/18, 27% of Australia’s production was used for drinking milk, compared to 18% in 2001/02. Last financial year, 37% of milk produced was used for domestically consumed manufactured products; up from 26% in 2001/02"
So almost three quarters of milk production is used for solids - cheese, yoghurt, etc. As far as I can see, the focus on drinking milk is a massive oversimplification because it's easier for people to get riled up about it.
In 1980 our milk production was 5,432 million litres. In 2018 it was 9,289 million litres - almost double! So it's not like we were making more milk in the glorious old days - we're producing much more milk now than we used to in spite of the constant news of doom and gloom.
Finally 36% of our milk production is used for export purposes. So we continue to produce a significant surplus of dairy in spite of our much larger population.
My thoughts:
In spite of all this we are endlessly bombarded about dire news from farmers who have chosen to work in a market and who receive significant subsidies from the rest of the country. I don't think it's fair or reasonable to prop up an industry indefinitely and I think much of the noise around it is political in nature or overblown.How much of our subsidy money ends up resulting in cheaper exported product to benefit consumers overseas?
Why not let some farmers sell out of dairy and have the land and water used for more efficient crops?
When the drought ends will we place a levy on farmers to recoup the funds spent on subsidies?
Why do we need to export something that can't sustain itself and requires water that our environment appears to need to sustain itself?
@maelstrm
I'm pretty much on board with most of what you say.
When the drought ends
This is an issue. One which those in the rural sector, and all others need to examine. Drought is the norm. Over the history of white settlement in Australia, it should be understood that generally, away from some fertile areas of the coast, most of Australia is permanently in drought. We have been seduced by intermittent 'good' years. And, with much of our farming heritage inherited from wet, green Europe, expectation (for 150 years) has always been that Australia is just like a bigger England.
The reality has always been the opposite. We grow the wrong crops, raise the wrong animals, ignore the evidence of decades. Yet we still continue to prop up largely unviable industries for… sentimental? political? nationalistic? reasons.
There have undoubtedly been increases in farming efficiency as production has increased, but this will only highlight the problems as climate change continues to bite even harder going forward. (But we haven't even needed the climate change of the last 50 years to realise that massive water-intensive farming was never going to be viable forever.)
Some good points. Though drought looks to be the new normal.
The rain was the anomaly.
The drought is the norm.
There is no "new" normal.
Yes. I just took more words to say that.
tshow, re there being no 'new normal'… there is if you believe in the science of climate change. from the 2018 climate council report: "climate change is driving an increase in the intensity and frequency of hot days and heatwaves in Australia, exacerbating drought conditions."
@hammy80: I believe the climate is changing but there's a difference between popular "science" and actual science.
Actual science takes into account baselines. The baseline is a trajectory. Since we all know the climate is continuously changing, human intervention or otherwise, are we significantly off course?
If we are off course, is it actual change or have we plotted the expected course incorrectly.
If we are indeed having a statistically significant spike, is it merely correlation to our existence or caused by our existence?
Then there's the whole issue on the specifics of the drought. Is it correlating to supposed climate change or actually caused by it?
Lumpsum "climate change is a science" doesn't help anyone. We as a species went through this exact phenomenon of observing correlations callously and making wild extrapolations. Today, we call it holistic medicine.
@[Deactivated]: this is quite an opaque comment. i did not say that climate change IS a science, i referred to the science OF climate change. 97 per cent of scientists agree that it exists and that changes in weather are not just a statistically significant spike.
@hammy80: what doesn't help anyone is denying that the earth is getting warmer and that human activities have no bearing on this.
@hammy80: What doesn't help is starting at a position that requires humans have a bearing on it, know exactly what it is and can make sufficient changes based on existing circumstances.
Climate change activist have been long pushing that they're sure of all three when even the first, human impact, is difficult to understand.
@[Deactivated]: it is not difficult to understand. prior to the industrial revolution, the amount of carbon in the atmosphere remained stable. following the industrial revolution, carbon emissions have increased by 40 per cent. though we need a certain amount of carbon in the atmosphere, when there's too much of it, temperatures rise, ice melts.
@hammy80: It doesn't matter if 100% of scientists agree. Science doesn't change based on agreement.
Take for example a patient that has been on a merry go round of doctors. 50 other doctors say diagnosis X and the last doctor the patient needed to see said diagnosis Y. It still means there were 50 wrong diagnoses.
Climate change is a science. We know it happened and we know nothing has changed to stop it. There's sufficient archeological proof.
Science doesn't care about consensus. Drought being caused by climate change due to human activity is… how should I put it…
A popular narrative.
Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't but it sure as hell isn't concrete.
(Ps. What is the difference between climate change science and the science of climate change?)
@[Deactivated]: science refers to the understanding of the way a system works (to be exact, it's defined as "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment"). climate change is a phenomenon.
@hammy80: what we do know that droughts will be more frequent in the future as global temperatures continue to rise. according to NASA: "limiting warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius is expected to significantly reduce the probability of drought and risks related to water availability in some regions, particularly in the Mediterranean (including Southern Europe, Northern Africa and the Near-East), and in Southern Africa, South America and Australia. About 61 million more people in Earth’s urban areas would be exposed to severe drought in a 2-degree Celsius warmer world than at 1.5 degrees warming."
Buy A2 milk, better. Or Pauls. Or some equally expensive brand. How much you pay, that much you get.
Coles and Woolies milk is same as expensive milk. They increased 3 L from $3 to 3.30 and then to 3.59. How much of the 59c is going to the farmers since that’s the propaganda they used “all the profits going to the farmer”. For past 10 years it stayed at fixed price and supermarket needed a excuse and a perfect timing to price hike. Win win for coleworth. All the people saying to increase the price, how about you buy the expensive milk because that’s your choice and leave us be.
I only support whichever has the most pus and antibotics pumped into it. Only the best for my kids.
Chicken is the product for you!
Soy milk anybody?
It's too labour intensive to milk the beans.
I've been on soy milk for years now and I don't eat cheese. I think the only cow's milk I get is from chocolate.
Are more people drinking soy / almond / rice milk these days? Seems like cow's milk is still the most used.
Yes, but sales of milk alternatives are on the rise (growing at 8% per annum), so much so that some dairy farmers are trying to halt the use of the word 'milk' on products like oat milk, etc.
soy milk is very harmful to males.
Enjoy your gyno
We either believe in the market or we don’t. Why blame woolies or coles? Clearly there are people willing to sell to them for their offer price.
Tbh, I’m sick and tired of this ‘think of the poor farmers’ bull. Farms are a business. Why should they be getting handouts? Every other business needs to factor in challenges. Droughts are terrible, but they are a known factor AND cost of business.
Primary industries provide raw materials which we use and export.
Exactly, even less reason to subsidise ;-)
I would upvote this 1000times if I could.
farmers supply us with fresh, locally produced food. they have a role to play in our general wellbeing, so i think we should value them in a general sense. that does not mean i think we should subsidise them. there's a difference.
I value every business owner by handing over my hard earned cash for their products. The amount I hand over is the value I place in their products.
We spend too much time romanticising over the ‘Aussie Farmer’ myth. Farmers are business people, no different from the local family store.
I have no problems with supporting industries that are of strategic national importance, i.e primary production, defence, large scale manufacturing, correct oil reserves, fuel refineries. I don't support offering handouts to non-essentials such as the Taxi industry due to the influx of Uber, which I think is going through NSW Parliament atm.
Since when is dairy milk an essential?