What Does $1M Buy You in Sydney These Days?

axloz on 09/08/2019 - 12:14

It seems the apparent market decline in Sydney has not really had any effect. When I look on realestate.com.au or domain.com.au for properties suitable for a young family (ie, 2br or 3br house or townhouse) within 10kms of the city I'm really not seeing much up for sale..
I'm not seeing many actual houses under $1M, just a few semi's and beat-to-hell 'renovator delights'.
Townhouses start to appear around the Ryde or Canterbury areas.
Otherwise its all apartments.

Anyone else here looking and feeling rather depressed by this? A million bucks doesn't go very far any more it seems! Or are there just too many doctors and lawyers living in Sydney?

Home & Garden

Comments

          • Stimps on 11/08/2019 - 14:41
            -1

            @jsheroes: Facts don’t matter though, they will just compare Sydney to Hong Kong ignoring that there is 3 million more people there squeezed into 1/10th the land mass of Sydney.

    • Seraphin7 on 09/08/2019 - 13:53
      +5

      You need to make sure you are comparing like-for-like around the world.

      Some cities are very expensive to live in because of the influence they have in the global economy and therefore the desirability of living (and working) in those places.

      Here is an example of this sort of categorisation.

      If you buy into this sort of analysis, Sydney needs to be compared with the likes of London, New York, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. I would assert that young families in these sorts of cities are no better off than those in Sydney.

    • YBAF Pilot on 09/08/2019 - 17:10
      +4

      Very doable in Brisbane. We live in Tarrigindi, 3.5bedroom with 2 bathrooms, 802m2 lot and carport. We bought 18months ago for $750k.

      • Peter Enis on 09/08/2019 - 17:40
        +2

        Hey neighbour! Tarragindi here as well… bought here just a few months ago. Left Sydney last year because we knew we'd never afford a proper house in a suburb we liked.
        Which one of use will host the Tarragindi OzB xmas party this year???

        • loropy9 on 12/08/2019 - 22:49

          Just out of curiosity , what suburb is that closest compared to Sydney?

          • Peter Enis on 13/08/2019 - 10:24
            +1

            @loropy9: Hmmm for house/land size (700-800m2 blocks) and proximity to nature (local forest) I would say similar to Hills/Hornsby areas.
            But for proximity to CBD (20 min bus ride) I guess a bit like Lane Cove.

            • [Deactivated] on 13/08/2019 - 12:32

              @Peter Enis: Distance wise bne cbd to tarragindi is like syd cbd to gladsville. (7km).

      • ihbh on 15/08/2019 - 21:24

        3.5bedroom

        .5 for Tyrion Lannister?

        What pray tell does .5 represent?

  • kolorijo on 09/08/2019 - 12:56
    +1

    You might still get something within 20km from the city

  • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 12:57

    $1m will get you a nice place 30km from the CBD, in the wild west

    • SlavOz on 10/08/2019 - 16:01
      +3

      West is a very nice place to live. Peaceful, safe (most suburbs), clean, with multiple sets of shops and establishments in either direction. Close to the city you're much more limited in choice.

      1m will do you very nicely in the West, even towards Parramatta which is only 25km to the city

      • dajiska on 11/08/2019 - 17:04
        +1

        @SlavOZ - where in Parra you can find around 1M?
        I have been looking but cant find anything……prices are ridiculous high!

        • whooah1979 on 11/08/2019 - 17:38

          Parramatta CBD has a new stadium, a University and a Westfield. Finding something under $1m isn’t going to be easy.

        • SlavOz on 11/08/2019 - 20:10

          I just estimated tbh, but a quick search on domain shows a few decent apartments in Parra for under a mill. Houses are hard to come by in that area but depends what you're willing to settle for.

          58 Pitt Street, Parramatta
          https://www.domain.com.au/58-pitt-street-parramatta-nsw-2150…

          Otherwise, plenty of houses around Merrylands or Granville for under a mill. They're not pretty though, and the areas are trashy as hell. But they're both only about 5kms from Parra and over time they're only going to become nicer places to live as prices go up and the higher class people move in.

  • apsilon on 09/08/2019 - 12:57
    +4

    You need to be looking far more west, like 30+ km from the CBD. Somewhere like Marsden Park you'll pick up a 4 or even 5 bedroom place for under a mil easy.

  • AustriaBargain on 09/08/2019 - 13:02
    +4

    10km is very close to the city. You could move to a cheaper city if you want to live that close to the CBD?

  • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 13:12
    +7

    A plane ticket it out of there :)

    • kolorijo on 09/08/2019 - 13:35
      +4

      That looks pretty damn good.

      • HighAndDry on 09/08/2019 - 14:47
        +1

        I'm a little surprised myself how cheap it is. I'd buy it if I had the money and pre-approvals ready, almost regardless of its condition/etc.

        • INVOICE on 12/08/2019 - 13:59

          I'm a little surprised myself how cheap it is

          It's because it's in a strata block. You're not buying a place, you're buying a shared zone where you'll need permission to do anything and you'll be paying levies for the rest of your life.

      • Peter Enis on 09/08/2019 - 16:12
        +13

        The furniture and decorations look good, hence all the zoomed in shots. But if you look beyond that its got a dated kitchen and appears quite small. No garage, carspace only (where do you store your all your stuff, in the courtyard?) Common walls on two sides of you. 22 minute walk to the nearest train station? No thanks. Also it appears to be about 50m away from the M2 motorway!

        • HighAndDry on 09/08/2019 - 16:28
          +9

          …… FFS man, it's <$1M and only 14kms from the Sydney CBD, with good amenities and schools nearby!

          But no you're right - the absolute perfect property is going to be very hard to find, and competition for those are going to be chockers so there'd be a premium. Something that's this well-located AND this well-priced?

          There'll be a reason for it. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Caveat emptor and all that.

        • Taro Milk Tea on 09/08/2019 - 16:37
          +1

          lol man, you probably don't know anything about expensive suburbs in Sydney area…I would love to buy a property in Marsfield area. Nice environment.

          • Peter Enis on 09/08/2019 - 17:31
            +2

            @Taro Milk Tea: I have a reasonable enough idea - owned a place in Meadowbank until early this year. But like a lot of Sydney folk, I've split ways with that city, and affordability was one of the main driving factors.

            • Taro Milk Tea on 09/08/2019 - 17:52
              +2

              @Peter Enis: Can't compare meadowbank with marsfield imo.. Meadowbank is just too packed with apartments. It's terrible.

              • Peter Enis on 09/08/2019 - 19:23
                +3

                @Taro Milk Tea: Haha and that is the problem with Sydney. Everyone wants to live 10km from the cbd but they don't like suburbs packed with apartments.
                I was one of those people, which is why I left the place!

        • JediJan on 10/08/2019 - 18:17

          Yes, they do seem to like their blue tiles! Seems like kitchen is liveable for the present, and a few renovations such as marble workbenches it would look more presentable. I would be more bothered by having only one car space, but within 10kms of City hardly surprised. I'd be looking further out for 2 car spaces and closer public transport.

    • axloz on 09/08/2019 - 16:05
      +3

      That does look quite reasonable for circa 800k in Sydney.
      Has anyone here done the Marsfield to CBD commute though? Not fun.. I used to be at Macquarie Uni, those peak hour rushes were nasty. Could be worse though (Penrith or the Southern line…)

      • HighAndDry on 09/08/2019 - 16:25
        +1

        Now might be a good time to buy though? Since I think that area's public transport is getting upgrades, the benefits of which should show up soon, but not percolate through the market immediately.

        This is DEFINITELY NOT property investment advice. Take with like, a Himalayas sized grain of salt.

        • axloz on 09/08/2019 - 16:38
          +2

          They just had the new driverless rail line go through there, which opened about a month ago or so. I think the market already adjusted for this some time ago to be honest.. This particular property is quite a ways from the train station anyway - 23 min walk. But it does have bus routes right there.

  • Cluster on 09/08/2019 - 13:27
    +5

    Lower your expectations. Why is 10km within the CBD so important?

    • axloz on 09/08/2019 - 16:06
      -1

      Its preferable based on my work.

      • HighAndDry on 09/08/2019 - 17:01
        +22

        Unfortunately it's also preferable for everyone else for the same reasons =/.

      • SlavOz on 10/08/2019 - 18:00
        +2

        10km from the city will still be a pain getting to work I imagine. You might as well buy in the West - the train could take you the same amount of time to get to work from say Blacktown or Parramatta.

    • DiLs on 12/08/2019 - 05:23
      +1

      May be he has restraining orders from court

    • INVOICE on 12/08/2019 - 13:54

      So you don't feel like killing yourself when you commute and lose hours of your life every day pointlessly?

  • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 13:27
    +1

    We have a growing population. There's more people and the value of money decreases due to inflation. More people and smaller value of money means your position relative to everyone else has decreased.

    Now that $1m is an accessible amount to many, you're going to live like the many - further from the city or in a small suspended box.

    • axloz on 09/08/2019 - 16:07

      Sadly it seems that way!

      I actually don't mind apartments, but even those are either further out or tiny, at the $1M price point.

  • kahn on 09/08/2019 - 13:31
    +1

    Pretty soon, you'll only be able to afford one of these.

    • axloz on 09/08/2019 - 16:09
      +1

      Good thing I'm not an avo fan :)

      But I refuse to eat anything other than lobster on days ending in the letter 'Y'.

      Kidding, obviously..

    • Zachary on 10/08/2019 - 22:09
      +1

      i still live on bread….

      • Ti-au on 10/08/2019 - 22:20

        Oviously you live in Sydney and have a mortgage.

        • Zachary on 11/08/2019 - 11:26
          +1

          Nah, I don't even have a house let alone a mortgage, and I live in Perth. I just crash at people's places.

  • Hellfire on 09/08/2019 - 13:35
    +2

    You might find a 2br house in the south west or west around the 10km mark for 1mil. For that price you'll need to do some work. Don't discount semi and terrace houses, they are very common in the distance from CBD you are looking.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/08/2019 - 13:44
    +9

    Absolutely nothing wrong with an apartment for a young family. It doesn't have to be the "forever" home. Just keep saving, build equity, and upgrade to a house down the track when the time and market is prime for buyers.

    • HighAndDry on 09/08/2019 - 14:38
      +3

      It doesn't have to be the "forever" home.

      This. A lot of the properties in the range OP is complaining about are being bought by couples in their mid-30s to 40s in the prime of their lives. They haven't stood still for 10-20 years since they first started a family and they certainly can afford to pay more than a "young family" of around that age.

      • Stimps on 09/08/2019 - 19:39

        People in their mid-30s early 40s are the young families, they spent the last 15 years saving for a house deposit only to blow it now on IVF.

        • Mike88 on 10/08/2019 - 21:24
          +1

          If it's taken them 15-20 years of their adult working life to afford a house then maybe they have not been prioritising their savings or not managed their expectations.
          IVF is a choice and is also partially publicly funded, so we get the privilege of paying for it to.

    • elgrande on 09/08/2019 - 15:46
      +9

      It doesn't have to be the "forever" home.

      Thats exactly what the developer said when they were cutting corners!

      • axloz on 09/08/2019 - 16:11
        +1

        Haha, oh snap!

        Yeah, there's some shoddy apartments out there.

        Maybe our choice is more appropriately set between a crappy beat up old house, or an apartment with rice bubbles for concrete aggregate…

        • HighAndDry on 09/08/2019 - 16:29
          +3

          Don't forget, bonus kindling for external walls…..

    • INVOICE on 12/08/2019 - 13:57
      +1

      It doesn't have to be the "forever" home.

      Sorry, but for the vast majority of people, your first home is going to be equivalent to your final home. There are only 3 ways to avoid this:

      1. Get a MASSIVE boost in income. I'm talking 2x income at least. (unlikely for most people).
      2. Get lucky and ride a MASSIVE property boom (like the one we just had, unlikely to happen again).
      3. Get another mortgage later. e.g. get a $1,000,000 mortgage today, then in 20 years time, get another $1,000,000 mortgage. Effectively equivalent to getting a $2,000,000 mortgage today and just getting the place you want from the start, except you're now spreading it over your lifetime.

      There is no such thing as "moving up" or "getting on the ladder". It's all pure property bullshit.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 12/08/2019 - 23:44

        So you think that the majority of properties currently for sale are only being sold by deceased estates or oldies moving into retire homes eh?

        10 years can change everything.

        10 years of equity paid off their property.
        10 years to move up or sideways in their careers. Even if stuck in the same job you can assume a several pa. increases.
        10 years to save more money.
        10 years for their property to increase in value.
        10 years to plan to sell and upgrade, or turn it into an investment property generating income.

        It's not rocket surgery.

        • INVOICE on 13/08/2019 - 10:43

          Sorry, none of that counters my 3 points. You can't escape the math.

          The reality is, unless one of my 3 scenarios happen to you, you aren't ever "moving up". EVER. It isn't a matter of opinion.

          I'll repeat, to "move up", you need:

          1. A MASSIVE boost in wealth (majority of people don't get this).
          2. To live in boom times and get extremely lucky (no, that just occurred and isn't going to occur again).
          3. To get into massive lifelong debt (you technically "moved up" in the one asset class - property, but you're a dope and still have enormous debt).

          There isn't any getting around reality.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 13/08/2019 - 13:37
            +1

            @INVOICE: Your reality doesn't match ours.

            Houses are easily bought and sold on average to medium sustainable wages.

            How is stating "A MASSIVE boost in wealth" math exactly?

            A boom isn't required. In fact many young families are jumping into the WA house market now as prices have plummeted.

            An average 500k home after 10 years of repayments will have approx. 100k of the principal paid down. 150k after 15 years. The house will likely also have increased in value over that time. They will have accrued further savings. 5-10k savings a year combined for an average couple in not unreasonable. Their average to medium income will likely have had increases even if in the same role.

            They could sell, buy a more expensive "forever" home and probably be servicing a similar mortgage to the one they entered into on their original property.

            • INVOICE on 13/08/2019 - 15:10

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: So like I said option 3. Take on more debt.

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 13/08/2019 - 18:37
                +1

                @INVOICE: Who said they need to take on more debt?

                They can sell their place, realise their security and use their savings, and buy a more expensive place by simply transferring the security interest.

                • INVOICE on 14/08/2019 - 13:45

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: …….
                  Seriously? The second mortgage they take out is the additional debt.

                  e.g. (simplified)

                  First home:

                  $500,000 cost
                  $50,000 deposit
                  $450,000 mortgage

                  After 10 years, paid off $100,000 of debt and saved $50k

                  Sell home for $600,000

                  Second home:

                  $1,000,000 cost
                  $300,000.00 deposit (savings + profit from first home)
                  $700,000.00 mortgage

                  Total debt: ~$1,000,000 when you include interest

                  They "moved up the ladder" by doubling their debt.

                  • HighAndDry on 15/08/2019 - 10:32

                    @INVOICE:

                    Total debt: ~$1,000,000 when you include interest

                    What? You just said:

                    $300,000.00 deposit (savings + profit from first home)
                    $700,000.00 mortgage

                    That's $400,000 debt, not $1,000,000. Their first mortgage is paid out when they sell the first property.

  • Ocker on 09/08/2019 - 14:13

    A very good time at A.T.O.C.

  • shaybisc on 09/08/2019 - 16:01
    +5

    House prices are weird. You would think that they would depend on the income level of the residents but that is not necessarily so.

    "Sydney ranked seventh on the global overvalued cities index, with home prices currently “overvalued” by 50 per cent when compared with household incomes, according to The Economist.

    International cities with overpriced housing compared to wages include Auckland, considered to be 75 per cent overvalued, Vancouver at 65 per cent, London at 59 per cent, Paris at 70 per cent, and Hong Kong at 94 per cent."

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/property/2018/08/10/global-…

    • Cluster on 09/08/2019 - 16:07
      +2

      It also depends on the ratio of foreign investors willing to buy into a city. If every low wage worker would be forced to live 40km+ from the CBD the price of inner urban housing would still go up.

      The issue only becomes a problem when low income earners are unwilling to spend 4+ hours a day commuting to work. The inner urban doctors, lawyers, and MBAs suddenly look around and see no one is willing to provide child care services, so they petition the government for even more subsidize instead of addressing the problem.

      • chriise on 09/08/2019 - 20:56

        I actually find myself wondering quite often how there are so many people willing to commute all the way to the city to work retail or hospitality at what I assume is minimum wage (if that in some cases)… Surely there is still plenty of that work in the suburbs.

        • Cluster on 10/08/2019 - 01:09

          The best way to lower prices is to starve the beast. How many cleaners have to commute 4 hours per day to clean $4M homes in Sydney harbor? Let the CEOs clean their own houses. They'll soon raise the pay as they labour cleaning 8 bedrooms and four bathrooms.

        • SlavOz on 10/08/2019 - 18:12

          Surely nobody is doing that?

          Plenty of jobs in the suburbs, with wages more or less on par with jobs in the CBD depending on the industry. I work in ITish and am on about 85k a year with minimal experience at a growing company. Doubt I could pull much more in the CBD.

    • axloz on 09/08/2019 - 16:14

      Some good logic there, cheers for the insight!

      From my limited experience, Sydney compares closely to Boston and Vancouver in a value/$ sense. Where Sydney certainly wins out there is that its not covered in snow for 3 months of the year…

      • xenobium on 10/08/2019 - 10:22

        Depending on their careers, people could place a +100% valuation for just being in those cities. Business, tech, medical industries etc. Valuation is subjective and simply depends on perspective. On a low wage in retail? Sure, that +100% is not justified.

    • HighAndDry on 09/08/2019 - 16:30

      International cities with overpriced housing compared to wages include Auckland, considered to be 75 per cent overvalued, Vancouver at 65 per cent, London at 59 per cent, Paris at 70 per cent, and Hong Kong at 94 per cent."

      Not that weird - people are more willing to pay more of their incomes for living somewhere, if living precisely there is seen as a bonus.

      • shaybisc on 10/08/2019 - 11:03

        O

      • shaybisc on 10/08/2019 - 11:03
        +2

        But what is the attraction of being "precisely there" if it isn't a big wage? Plenty of better places to live than Mascot in a $1 million 2 bedroom shonky built flat etc.

      • albert648 on 13/08/2019 - 05:28

        People just can't do math.

        I once did the math and found San Francisco to be not worth it. Your income differential is normally in the 20-40% range while your cost of living differential is 100%+. They see big numbers on their paychecks and don't think about the fact that they paid $2 million more than they had to for a house in worse shape than what you'd get for $400k elsewhere.

  • nfr on 09/08/2019 - 17:48

    Yesterday I saw 2 bedroom apartments asking 800K to 1 million in Caringbah which is 27km to Wynyard.

  • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 17:53

    Our old house in Elsternwick ( about 9km from the Melbourne CBD) recently sold for $1.4k, which is insane, considering that it's one of those "victorian terrace" villas with no garage and a tiny yard that our twins outgrew the moment they became confident walkers.

    • sss333 on 09/08/2019 - 18:10
      +7

      $1.4k

      $1,400

      That is absolutely insane.

      • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 18:10
        +4

        lol! 1.4m , which works out to $6,300 per m2…

    • whooah1979 on 09/08/2019 - 19:38

      That is a lot of coins for a shoebox. Was it renovated?

      • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 20:49

        I've Pmed you pics of the house. Is it worth the price tag?

  • hunterhalo on 09/08/2019 - 17:57
    +1

    Lucky me i grab 1 a couple of years ago @ taylors hill-mẹlbourne for 500k,680m2. I know exactly what I want. Did not have unreasonable expectations and im happy with my choice ever seen. The only downside is if i want to shorten my trip to cbd to around 30 mins, toll roads all the way otherwise 45ish. I wish it will be free in the near future

    • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 18:16
      +2

      When someone can charge a fee for something, it will never be free.

      • hunterhalo on 09/08/2019 - 18:43
        +1

        Remember westgate tolls, my uncle still have a bunch of old tickets haha

      • happirt on 10/08/2019 - 13:55

        exactly what the hooker said. not everyone is a sex worker you know…

    • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 18:23

      What's the attraction with Taylors Hill?

      • hunterhalo on 09/08/2019 - 18:48
        +1

        Big land, and i like big backyard, newish area and if you pay tolls it relatively close to the city. Foe the price back whwn i bought it, it is reasonable

        • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 19:00

          Someone suggested Taylors Hills when we outgrew our 1st house but in the end, we settled for Aspendale. Further from the city ( 40 mins by train) but bigger land and walking distance to a really nice beach.

          • hunterhalo on 09/08/2019 - 19:18

            @[Deactivated]: Good on ya, as long as you like it, for me i did look in to the area, however, it is a bit far from my work and i just dont like sea or the salty smell or live close to water, prefer highland more :)

            • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 20:06
              +3

              @hunterhalo: Our kids loved it! They were straight out of their pjs into their bathers pretty much every morning for a quick dip in the sea then would wrap themselves in their towels and walk straight into the shower and get ready for school. Same thing in the afternoon.
              I've lost count of the number of sunsets we've watched with the kids doing cartwheels on the beach and the dog running around them all excited.
              They take after their mother who is a mermaid, you see:) They all learned to swim before they learned to walk. They were born with sea salt hair and sea blueish-green eyes and they smell like faraway tropical islands, even in the midst of winter. Not living close to the beach is not an option for us:)

              We have since sold that place in Aspendale (someone knocked on our door one morning and made an offer we couldn't refuse). We've downsized to something smaller (550 m2) and closer to the city and 1km from the beach. It's so hard to find the right compromise between close to the Cbd and have enough open spaces for the kids to run around :(

        • shaybisc on 10/08/2019 - 11:54

          ‘Lock your doors’: Idyllic suburb rocked by youth crime issues

          IT WAS the perfect suburb for young families, with parks, playgrounds and lakes. Now terrified residents want to leave.

          https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/lock-your-doo…

          Don't believe the hype?

          • hunterhalo on 10/08/2019 - 17:08
            +2

            @shaybisc: Yeah nah, mate, do you think our cardboard houses and front glass windows will stop it? Look im vietnamese and my house in vietnam is like a fortress, metal front gate, concrete and all, thats how u feel safe. Even with security roller or security door screen, there are so many flaw that can be exploit to get inside. Simple crow bar or hydrauluc opener tool can easily pump those so call security measures open easily

            • [Deactivated] on 11/08/2019 - 19:24

              @hunterhalo: I've also noticed that newer builds tend to have many floor to ceiling windows like so. How easy would it be to break into that house?

              • hunterhalo on 11/08/2019 - 19:56
                +1

                @[Deactivated]: Brick on the side? Or even the house own bin? Cricket bat, a few good wacks, or a cheap glass breaker pen from ebay, 1 punch from those (profanity), then thats it

    • Peter Enis on 09/08/2019 - 20:45

      Tell us honestly though, what is your door to door commute time? If you closed your front door at 7.30am, what time would you be sitting at your desk?

      • hunterhalo on 09/08/2019 - 21:29

        Never travel at that time, however usually out at 8.45-9.00 use the toll, be at collin st at 9.30-9.40. But if i have to go at 7.30 i suppose it will be much earlier

  • t_c on 09/08/2019 - 18:10

    Who else here is tempted to swallow condoms full of contraband to get their foot in the door on a 30 year house loan?

    • HighAndDry on 09/08/2019 - 18:22
      +6

      I think the banks cracked down on accepting international sources of income.

    • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 18:29
      +4

      If you're only willing to swallow those condoms , you're not serious about getting a home loan…just saying😋

  • TheBilly on 09/08/2019 - 19:41
    +3

    Sydney is insanely good. I haven't been elsewhere besides - Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Dubai. In all honesty as a city it splatters shit all over those ones… Where in the world do you get coast lines like us, national parks, mixed cultures, cuisines, space, cleanliness, wealth, health, equality and respect etc. It is not even comparable. There would be atleast a billion people in the world that if you asked them to move here naked, homeless and broke. They would do it…. Without question.

    • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2019 - 20:38
      +3

      Lol

    • SlavOz on 10/08/2019 - 18:06
      +3

      Lol

    • GenghisGun on 13/08/2019 - 10:45

      almost every other capital city in Australia, lol

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