Dealing with a Difficult Customer and Refund - Opinion Neeed

Hi, fellow OzBargainers. First time poster, long time lurker.

We run a small t-shirt printing business, where customers send in their designs or company logos and we print them after they approve the mock-ups. It's been going for almost a decade now and doing relatively well, however we came across a strange customer. Here's the timeline of events:

  1. Customer places and order for 50 t-shirts. We give them a sample, they approve it and the job gets completed.
  2. They come pick it up, inspect a few and say it looks great.
  3. Three weeks later, they place another order of 50 t-shirts. We complete the job and it gets picked up.
  4. One week later, a very long email comes in saying there's issues and some alignment is off, colour's are off on the fabric or whatever (This is quite common in this industry, there's small variances here and there). We are very happy to reprint them or even refund them in some cases, however with this customer, they gave us no opportunity to remediate.
  5. Now here's the interesting part. He says he will drop all the boxes off at the front door and in the email he provides his BSB / ACC requesting a full refund for every single t-shirt, including the first batch.
  6. We kindly say no, this is not the right process. Please send with a proper courier with tracking and only send the t-shirts which you have found issues with.
  7. He sends the entire lot (pretty much ignoring our request). Again sends his banking details requesting for a full refund. This time he adds 'we would prefer if we didn't write any reviews about your company'. Not sure if that's a threat.
  8. We send the boxes right back, again requesting he does it the right way.
  9. He says we weren't authorised to send it back to him. He will leave it at his front door as it's not his problem now. Again sends an email with this banking details asking for a full refund. This time he adds 'we would prefer if we didn't have to take this to small claims'. Now this time I'm pretty sure it's a threat.
  10. We (following some advice from a friend who's deals with this stuff) send an email in a legal format asking him to do exactly as told. Label each item he wants to return with issues on it and put it into an excel table so we have reference.
  11. Sends the stock back as requested with a table filled out. All 100 t-shirts on there, saying it's crooked. Took a few pictures with a tape measure, saying it's off by a few millimeters etc (some off by centimeters apparently).
  12. Sure, a % may be crooked or completely off, happy to fix it. He adds he has already gone with another supplier and got it all printed. The supplier apparently told him all our recommendations were wrong, doing it the screen printing way is better etc. This doesn't really affect us as it's just opinion, but seems he's just naive and bonded right up with this new supplier.
  13. Threatened again with Small Claims.

What are our rights here? For us it's not actually about money and we can certainly refund it. It's really about the principle. This person has been behaving like a complete immature baby, throwing threats and tantrums. There's right processes to follow, but seems like some people have limited brain capacity to follow it. Most suppliers require RMA's to do proper returns.

We do admit that t-shirts aren't exactly 100%, and so do many other suppliers, especially bulk batches. End of the day it's still a manual job for staff to do. We strive to improve after each and every order.

(Yes I know, some things aren't worth chasing. Just want some opinion).

Comments

            • -5

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: So you're basically saying to give a refund whenever a customer asks. Just turn up, say hey this is faulty I want refund. In the meantime buys it from somewhere else.

              • +9

                @MisterX: Not even close to what I said.

                1. Customer says they have faulty stock and returns it. You ship the entire stock back to him because he didn't "follow procedure"

                2. You make the customer fill out an Excel spreadsheet for every item. You haven't checked every item.

                3. You're unsure exactly how many items are faulty. How can you state the customer is wrong in that scenario?

                4. Your mindset is one heavily invested in internal policy rather than law.

                I'm just saying that if you were to rock up to Small Claims and have this argument, you would likely be in a spot of bother.

                Retailers like "Woolworths" don't let trivial returns turn into a small battle like this. What's interesting is you seem to want to allow this to escalate further.

      • If I went to Woolworths and bought 6 apples, 3 tubs of yoghurt and 9 packets of chips, I don't push the trolley back when there's 2 bad apples

        If I bought a bag of apples from Woolworths and two were bad, then whole bag is going back, I'm not going back to Woolworths for just two replacement apples. lol

      • +2

        Last I checked Woolworths actually had a replace and refund policy for fresh produce.

        So they would replace the 6 apples and give you a refund. It’s quite amazing actually.

    • +5

      Yeah this was a really bad move, makes no sense at all to do this.

      OP should have properly reviewed every shirt at this point to seriously address the customers concerns.

      If it was only a few that were below standard then apologising and offer refund/reprint for that amount may be sufficient. But if your looking at a serious issue with a large percentage unacceptable then the only real choice is to acknowledge you messed up and do full refund.

  • +6

    Message purchaser stating shirts will be stamped with the word 'Crooked' , 'Faulty' , 'Damaged' and handed out for free in the city to anyone that wants one. A double entendre of sorts - whilst being a good deed.

    From a tax perspective, you should be able to claim costs anyway as damaged inventory.

  • +6

    Did they pay by bank transfer? If not, only refund the method of payment as he might be scamming a credit card and wanting cash back.

    Also, only refund the portion of t-shirts that you deem to be out of alignment or replace them. "Our QA department has inspected each t-shirt and found only 13 that are mis-aligned. We will reprint these for you. We won't be refunding you the for any of the items as Austrlian warranty laws do not require this if a replacement is provided".

    Warranties in Australia, allows for fixing, replacing or refunding.

    • Yeh tried that, but still managed to write all 100 on the table.

  • The small claims court threat sounds pretty empty and quite common for a difficult customer that is just seeking a refund.

    • Only costs the customer $65-90 bucks in Victoria for something like this. It is very effective in obtaining a resolution, especially against a business or company.

      • +1

        Regardless of the cost, most people wouldn't bother actually going through with it.

        • It's all a gamble lol!

        • In Melbourne it is a very, very busy List. A lot bother going through with it.

          • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I'm sure it is, although they typically aren't the ones that threaten it to receive a refund, they just do it.

            • @magic8ballgag: It's part of the process. No appearance occurs unless a demand has been made prior, a response given (or ignored).

              So no, I wouldn't consider it an empty threat, that most won't bother going through with it, nor haven't made prior demands.

              • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                It's part of the process.

                Again, whilst that may be, it doesn't necessarily mean they will go through with it.

                I still would consider it so with this particular person.

                • +1

                  @magic8ballgag: I'd consider otherwise. They've returned the stock twice. They've complied with OP's (unorthodox) return policy. They want their money back.

                  • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                    I'd consider otherwise.

                    You've already made that quite clear.

                    They've returned the stock twice.

                    You mean they've dumped stock in a passive-aggressive manner on OP's business property and demanded a refund? This isn't the type of person I could envision going to court.

                    • @magic8ballgag:

                      passive-aggressive manner

                      We don't know that. Customer could simply live nearby and not want to pay excessive courier costs to return the stock.

                      The customer did end up returning it via Courier with a spreadsheet as requested. Someone worse would not have bothered.

                      Small Claims isn't really a Court. There's no lawyers. I could definitely see this customer rocking up with evidence of the 2 times they've returned the products, spreadsheet of faulty products and OP's business not having much to work with.

                      • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                        We don't know that. Customer could simply live nearby and not want to pay excessive courier costs to return the stock.

                        Well, unless OP is lying or has exaggerated the manner in which the customer has acted, I think that is obvious.

                        Returning purchased stock appropriately is one thing, threatening a small claims case is and following through with it is another.

  • I would decide what you want to offer the customer as a resolution and propose it. If refused, let the customer pursue it. If you can afford to write off the money, it may we worth it for a less stressful outcome. Doesn't mean the customer won't leave a bad review though.

    On the other hand, any chance you can provide the business details? It may be something i can use in the future :)

    • Yep we are working on that! Thanks.

      Haha Nah can't give the details, don't want to end up in a defamation case.

      • What would one search in gooogle to obtain such information?

      • It is not defamation if it's the truth FYI.

    • +1

      Agreed. I suspect customer will leave a bad review regardless of the outcome but doesn't want to do it yet because they're using the threat as leverage.

  • There shouldn't really be issues with the print and I wouldn't accept them if they were done for me. You cannot enforce your returns process unless the customer has been advised of it prior to order, or they agree with it. If the matter goes to court, your "process" wont hold water unless it is clearly stated in your Terms of Trade. This must be a legally worded document that the customer agrees to (approves the order to proceed) PRIOR to work commencing. That's why stores have signs advising of certain conditions at the entrance of the shop, not at the checkout when you are ready to leave.
    Your only other avenue of recourse would be if you designed the print on the shirt, not just printed his supplied logo. Then if he had the same artwork printed by someone else, they are in breach of copyright. You would hold the copyright of the design unless you had assigned it to him in writing.
    The very first thing you should do when starting a business is have legally drafted terms and conditions. attach or print these terms on the back of all quotes, artwork approvals and invoices. If they accept your quote or artwork approval, they then have accepted your terms of trade. Then if a client has a problem that you do not agree with, direct them to your legally binding terms.

    • +3

      You cannot enforce your returns process unless the customer has been advised of it prior to order, or they agree with it.

      The majority of your post is ill informed and wrong.

      A retailer cannot contract a customer out of consumer guarantees. (CCA 2010, sch 2, s 64)

      • -2

        "The majority of your post is ill informed and wrong.

        A retailer cannot contract a customer out of consumer guarantees. (CCA 2010, sch 2, s 64"

        Where was I wrong? Did you read my comment? I was advising OP that he cannot enforce any return conditions if the client was not informed of them prior to order.

        I said LEGALLY written T & C's, referring to his return policy of having a client supply a spread sheet of returned items etc. I personally think it is a harsh term,but if that is what he needs to process a return, it is his call (depending on legalities) if he states it in his terms. You arrange Legally drafted T & C's so they do not contravene consumer law, but give your business the protection it needs.

        He's not retailing a product, but providing a service by adding to someone else's product (shirt). He has provided it, fit for purpose, just not the most professional finish. Same as a guy who mows your lawn but doesn't do the edges perfectly straight, you still have your lawn mowed - fit for purpose.

        • if the client was not informed of them prior to order.

          I suggest you read CCA 2010, sch 2, s 64

          You arrange Legally drafted T & C's so they do not contravene consumer law, but give your business the protection it needs.

          That then falls under s 64A.

          just not the most professional finish. Same as a guy who mows your lawn but doesn't do the edges perfectly straight, you still have your lawn mowed - fit for purpose.

          No. Fit for purpose is just ONE of the consumer guarantees provided for. Just one.

          https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…

          Did you work in retail or run a retail business previously? A lot has changed since 2011.

          You cannot contract a customer out of the current consumer guarantees, nor limit them, nor limit your liability or make it inherently harder to enforce.

    • In some cases, terms and conditions aren't legally enforceable. For example, a store that has a sign that says 'we reserve the right to check your bags upon exit of the store' can be refused by the customer and the employee cannot detain someone for refusing.

    • Improving on that now and forever trying to improve. Having properly written T&Cs, agreements prior and better quality control for us will be on our improvement list.

      And yes, I would return faulty stock too, as any customer has a right to. We're happy to refund for the faulty stock too. Just not a throw boxes at front door, want a 100% refund.

      • +2

        I really like that you are handling these recommendations so well. The community here is full of differing opinions, lots of them are really good.

        If even a portion of the stock is faulty, and they want a full refund just do it. This is an exercise in quality control and customer service - this is where you can improve. The next time this happens the customer may act differently or want different results - that bit doesn't matter- the bit that matters is that your customer shouldn't be at all out of pocket for your quality control failings.

        The customer has now gone with another supplier and this is good thing because this customer no longer trusts you. There is no resolution at this point because of your customer service standards have broken the trust and your job is to sort this out for when it happens next with another customer.

        Now, the customer did in fact follow your procedures. As he did return them by courier. Learn the lesson, improve your standards and move on. Your brain power and energy is better spent elsewhere than dealing with this further.

        • "your quality control failings.'

          Everyone knows generic screen printing is not as high quality as other types of shirt printing (transfer, etc) - and thats why its cheaper.
          There is a higher chance of misalignment because of the process - thats why the t-shirts are usually used for one off events, and thats why usually nobody cares.

      • +1

        If only you checked how many are faulty when they returned the whole thing, instead of shipping all of them back.

  • +3

    How much will you lose by refunding him? Is the stress and annoyance worth more or less than this amount?

    • why give refunds if you're in the right. Yes it probably cost few hundreds bucks but still the business didn't do anything wrong. No free lunch to the retards.

      • +3

        Sometimes people are crazy, and it's not worth the stress. I sold a fish tank super cheap to a guy on gumtree that lived nearby. Had him and his wife around to see it all running, explained how it all worked etc. He took it to his house, set it up, and snapped one of the fittings on the filter.

        Called me wanting a refund. I said no. Said he was going to drop all the stuff on my driveway and come and get the money later. I said no. Sure enough, get home and there is a 150l fish tank, stand and all the accessories on my driveway. He had given the fish to my neighbour. Came around asking for his refund, I told him no and to get off my property. Continued coming around for days while I was at work and wife was at home with the baby. Called the cops, they said to go into the station. Went into station. They didn't care. This was over $150. Ended up giving the lunatic $125 and selling the lot on gumtree the next day to a very nice chap for $125.

        Moral of the story is, you have to put a price on your sanity. The guy the op is dealing with sounds like a similar type of nutjob.

        • +1

          I understand were you coming from and sometimes it best to just give a refund and move on.
          I know a owner who open a computer shop, one day this one customer bring a faulty hard drive back for warranty, as usual procedure he check the serial number that matches with the invoice. Didn't match and told the customer, the customer went beserk saying I'm coming back with my rifle if you don't exchange the drive or refund I bloodly kill you. Back those days a hard drive was around $300 - $400 this owner can go two ways, call the cops or exchange the drive. Guess which way did he go?

        • -1

          I had a similar deal on a blower. Starts, runs, but not quite right. Should just need a tune but nfi, I’m no mechanic I’ve only used it for 50 odd hours, I don’t have time or patience so I offloaded it on the Gumtrees.

          Old mate comes, starts it, runs it, happy with it, takes it away. I get a call back a week later saying she’s (profanity)… he was just an aggressive dick so I gave him his money back just to be the bigger man. (Incidentally i sent it in for service, now she runs sweet as!)

          Sometimes, life is bigger than arguing with a (profanity). Put him on a do not trade list and never sell to him again.

          • +3

            @Jcww: That's not similar, you knew it was buggered and tried (unsuccessfully) to make it someone else's problem.

  • As others have said, if you can find on social media the customer's cancelled event, throw that in their face, but the safest route, if you can absorb the hit, is just to accept the loss and give a (partial) refund. I say partial, only because it will encourage them NOT to try this again. Giving them a full refund means they're not out of pocket at all and will see this as a win.

  • +3

    I've dealt with this sort of thing in the past and whilst I agree with the principled approach, I find it kills me in terms of my own mental state and effort.

    For me, it's worth just losing the money and moving on - otherwise it just leeches into your personal life and can also even make you more irritable/suspicious of other customers if you're not careful.

    If you find it doesn't affect you that much/more a fun thing to pursue to get back at them then there's some good ideas above though.

  • +1

    Just refund him. If you force him to accept that you will remake the T shirts for him, he will just make some excuse about how the remade ones are still not good enough and you would have lost even more money.

  • I think #7 the holding back his review is a great tactic by him.

    Hence you are not dealing with a dill .

    Refund your best option really to save the stress of this battle . Most people now days expect 30 days no questions asked refunds .

  • +1

    Ignore it until it gets to a point where they have spent money on lawyers etc and want to go to court or something. Then refund the money, at least they would have wasted some money of their own which is fair given their unreasonable behaviour.

    • That's terrible advice. Nip it in the bud now before Court costs become involved.

      • Court costs only become involved when he agrees to go to court. The buyer has to spend the money first and spend his money

        • You don't "agree" to go to Court or Tribunal. The customer will file an application and then OP has no choice but to participate.

          Especially poor advice when the claim is a retailer not providing a refund. "Ignoring it" until the file an application will look pretty bad in front of the Member.

          As I said. Always nip it in the bud.

  • +8

    I think if this post was made by the buyer instead of the business. You would see a whole different response! The buyer says all 100 are off in either colour or crooked (some by mm's, some by cm's) You didn't check the shirts but refuse to believe that all shirts have issues. You said he's shown proof of this too with measurements. Even if it's not all 100 then it might still be a high number. You made him pay for postage to return faulty items. When he was going to drop it off and possibly talk in person to show you the errors. If these shirts were printed for an event or special occasion it might have needed to be done by a certain date, so is no longer necessary. I don't see how you are in the right… Especially since you stated you didn't give him any T&Cs or policies to abide by. With alignment issues off by centimetres and possible colour errors thats really poor quality control. If it's happened on a big percentage or all of the shirts, then I think he definitely should get his money back including postage. When or if he does go to small claims it will be a slam dunk for a refund.

    • +9

      Nope, you're forgetting that they ordered a further 50 after already examining and collecting the original 50, plus test. If there was a problem they wouldn't have ordered more.

      • +1

        Customer might not have looked at every shirt, why would he even? I assume they all packed up nicely in boxes etc

        It's not until later when handing them all out and everyones all trying them on and - oh wtf half of them are a misprinted mess

      • +2

        How do you know he checked every shirt ?

        Probably eyed one or two and left them in their office until needed

        • And maybe a lot of them are quite a way out of whack, the only proof of that is a verified inspection and an updated spreadsheet

  • Pretty obvious, you have a returns claim process, they refused to follow the process, invite them to take you to small claims court if that is their wish, accommodate them. Do not give them a refund until they follow your return claims process, and it seems that have no wish to do so, so its out of your hands.

  • Don't listen to anyone saying to give the refund just to avoid the trouble. That's how bad people get away with bad shit every day. Assuming everything you're saying is 100% true, never ever give in and do everything in your power to make it more difficult for him.

    • Nice just like those smart people on principle fight supposedly unjust fines that could have cost $100's that ended up into $1000's .

      Not counting wasted hours of that person time .

      • +1

        I did that :)

        Went to court, my perspecitve vs. police officers, judge said "police are given no special treatment, but he is a police officer, so i take his word over yours".

        Funny thing was, it was in a police surveiled area, I requested the footage and they said that the officer had to request it, i requested it through him and he refused.

        • they said that the officer had to request it

          This is why getting legal advice can be important. That's not true. They've given you the runaround.

  • +4

    Ask to see all 100 T-shirts from the new supplier first before considering his refund. Just to call him out if he did legitimately go to another supplier or not.
    If he can show you them, then you know he is legit and this also gives you an opportunity to scrutinize the other suppliers work against your own.
    If he is unable to show you proof of the 100 T-shirts, then he is pissing in your pocket. Chances are, his circumstances changed and he did need them anymore and was just trying to back out of the deal and get his money back.

    • This is good. Ask him you will issue a refund if he can proof that he has went elsewhere. If he did indeed, then refund him and move on.

    • I think the customer has jumped through enough hoops don't you think? They've returned the shirts twice, filled a policy driven excel spreadsheet, both sides have wasted plenty of time.

      How do you think calling him up asking him to come in a third time will play out?

      In any event the other supplier is besides the point.

  • +6

    I don't own a small business but as a consumer, I look very positively on businesses that respond to all their bad reviews. A business that has a few bad reviews that are professionally responded actually makes the positive reviews more genuine. If a business only had positive reviews that's a sign to me they're probably fake.

  • +4

    What's the worst case scenario?

    They take you to small claims and you have to refund?

    Why would you volunteer a refund?

    • Because small claims takes an entire day while issuing a refund takes minutes

      • What happens if you don't show up? It isn't a criminal matter

        • A lot can happen.

          Tribunal can make a costs order. That can easily exceed the cost of the shirts.

          This is also reported so bye bye any future credit or pre-ordering from suppliers.

          That would make the matter easily exceed $2k. Suddenly OPs business is then hit with a creditors statutory demand threatening to wind up the company.

          Not resolving this in the first instance or refusing to participate in a Tribunal or Court matter is one of the bonehead moves that kills small companies.

  • +1

    Call his bluff!

  • +3

    I'd like to have a look at a few photos of the product to see what the customer is so unhappy about.

  • +6

    Sounds like your typical ozb customer… You have asked the question on the wrong platform man.
    The inmates are running the asylum

  • +1

    Can't your legal friend also let you know if he even has a chance at small claims?
    Like others I reckon he's just been shafted needing the shirts and is trying to scare you into reducing their losses from not needing the shirts anymore. Unless you're not saying that the product did not look like the samples.

    As for the bad review, that's another risk but hey, plenty of businesses cop shocking reviews all the time and are still going fine. You can tell from the logo if they look "connected" or not to be someone who matters.

    • +1

      Also… law of averages will wipe out one bad review… I got a 3 in an Uber once when my friend had to make us stop to throw up. I’m still a 4.98 rating.

      If you have sketchy behaviour/quality though the average will follow your quality. My friend treats all drivers like sh1t and her rating is 3.x…

      But yes, if I were a billionaire I could also have enough clout to knock that guy out his Uber for the rest of his days. Pick your battles on how connected they are.

  • +1

    Since you're running a business, not a school of morals and ethics, just work out the time cost of fighting this, compare to lost profit.

    If it is worth your time, determine how many shirts are flawed, and what an acceptable deviation is (surely micrometres is fine, millimetres sure, maybe not centimetres). Then wait for his formal response.

    • Yep, sound advice :)

  • -4

    OP also had another post similar to this where they messed up embroidery on a big order of shirts. Customer asked for a refund on those too. Showed an example of of what it might look like for the issue on all the shirts (not just a few but all) but not of the actual shirts with the problem. Sounds to me like I would try and avoid your shop by all costs!

    • -1

      Sorry you're mistaken, it was already mentioned by another comment on this post and I had a good read of that scenario. Was good insight.

    • That wasn't the OP, literally takes two seconds to see that they were different users.

  • +2

    Depends on how much money is at stake here and how much that money is worth to you. For me if it was a few hundred, I'd let it go. Refund the guy and get on with life. If we were talking multiple thousands, I'd offer a partial refund for verified faulty shirts and offer to send back free of charge the non-faulty ones. Put this all in writing. If he disagreed, I would engage in no further interaction and wait for the small claims court notice….if it comes.
    He will probably bad mouth you on google but just write out a logical factual response with the offered solution which he rejected, and most people will see through the BS.

  • +1

    The way I see it, you both have a part to play, meet in the middle and refund half as a gesture of good will.

    If it was my business though I would push them to take on some accountability. Ultimately the way id anchor a conversation about an adequate resolution is, the first batch of shirts was 100% on him when he ordered the second batch.

    I would offer to reduce half the cost of the second batch- both parties taking equal responsibility of the second batch. He will likely crack it. Say you’ll take it away and consider it further. Come back a day or two later and split both invoices down the middle and he can keep the shirts. I assume they are no value to you now.

    Finally, the last option could be a full refund upon return of all the shirts. I would however make him feel guilty and advise this is on the proviso that you can give all the shirts to the needy (I assume you need to seek such permission given it might have a logo on it). Then give them to the homeless.

    If they say no… someone might even hear of such a story and write about the company that won’t let you give shirts to the homeless.

    • +2

      Tonight on A Current Affair… The company that doesn't give a shirt about the homeless.

  • The client bought your tee shirts, then he bought another set from a competitor.

    He bought two sets of tee shirts. This is his problem.

    Or he is stealing from his employer and gave you a personal bank account.

    However,

    I hate it when people try to cheat me. THIS IS NOT ADVICE. I would tell him I would be happy to take back the shirts, but in return I would ban him from doing business with me, offer to inform everyone involved, both publically and privately (suppliers in his industry, sponsors, services companies, his managers), about how he treats contractors AND that any shirts returned for refunds deemed acceptable will have additional text added, to the effect of '[print] Refused to pay for this shirt, so we refuse to charge you. Enjoy this shirt on us [my company name]', with refused to pay significantly larger than the rest of the print. I would then organise a shirt giveaway somewhere embarrassing for the cheat.

    Actual advice would be to get in touch with his superiors/business partners to confirm the issue and bank details. This could easily be theft (Company paid, employee over ordered and refunded to personal account). Let them know that you are contacting the bank of the BSB about your suspicions of fraud. If that doesn't light a nice fire, contact the bank with your suspicions (I personally would contact the bank first, because it's easier to google a BSB than create an organisation map, right?).

    • +4

      LOL you would be on the losing end of a defamation and possibly copyright case very quickly if you pulled a stunt like this .

      • What?

        OP should have an agreed to contract, written by a lawyer, giving them ownership of returned stock, rights to modify IP, rights to redistribute on breach of contract and assigning the client all liabilities, before OP even considered reproducing other parties IP.

        But since you take me for a moron, I will write the letter for you:


        Dear [contact's corporation],

        I regret to inform you that any breach of contract resulting in non payment of commissioned articles will result in ownership reverting back to [my companies name]. This includes any refund of accepted goods.

        I wish to remind you that as part of the commission of goods for [client's company name], all liabilities in regards to use of the IP provided was assumed by [client's company name]. This allows [my companies name] to re-purpose returned or refunded items in a socially conscious manor, instead of adding to land fill. This may result in a design distributed contrary to [client's company name] public image.

        Any effort to defame (sic) [my companies name] on 'social media' may be met with factual, informative rebuffs and reviews of [clients company name] approved by my lawyer, followed by legal action.

        If you would like to break your contract, any further contact can be conducted via [my lawyer's name, company name and contact details].

        Kind regards,

        [My name]
        Owner
        [My company name]


        This would be a stock letter I would request from my lawyer to be prepared at the same time as my service contract (The social media line would probably be reduced to 'may result in legal action'). And it would be sent to someone higher than the contact. And CC'ed to their lawyer (if published).

        Any personal feedback would be done via phone, as long as at least one of the parties is outside of Qld. All calls would be made within an hour of the email so their is no risk of an injunction (I would look up names and numbers before calling). And when calling the bank, I would ask to be transferred to an unrecorded line to provide a tip off about potential fraud. If they refuse I would hang up and try a different number.

        And when offering to add text:

        to the effect of '[print] Refused to pay for this shirt, so we refuse to charge you. Enjoy this shirt on us [my company name]', with refused to pay significantly larger than the rest of the print.

        And services such as organising:

        a shirt giveaway somewhere embarrassing for the cheat.

        You do it over the phone, outside of Qld.

        You also don't do any of this as an employee unless you want a new job in a new industry in a new country.

        It's not that hard to be a vindictive jerk. Jheeze.

        • Your reality appears to be a different one than all of us posting here.

          • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: You don't manufacture another person's IP without a contract that provides an outcome for when a relationship breaks down like this one. OP is printing other peoples IP. So many issues.

            I worked with a high volume of large transactions for a few years. To solve an issue like this it is literally reminding the client they have a contract, they purchased a second order else wehre after they agreed to the contract, and that second contract has nothing to do with me. But with more tact, over ~15 minutes, over the phone or in person (never in writing).

            This client sounds like a toxic client who is not someone OP will be able to convert. Any action from the OP will result in slander by the client (OP is not skilled enough to turn this client other wise OP wouldn't be asking here). The only possible way out is to talk to the clients manager and confirm the exact issue.

            But again, I said I am not providing advice. I am saying what I would do to burn this bridge, for my enjoyment, if I was OP, which I am clearly not.

            • @This Guy:

              I worked with a high volume of large transactions for a few years.

              Cool story. We aren't talking about that in here tho.

              We are talking about a small transaction that falls into the boundaries of the ACL consumer guarantees.

              • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: 3rd time, I do not wish to provide advice.

                Cool story. We aren't talking about that in here tho.

                A 2 million dollar McLaren Senna is covered by ACL as even hyper cars are usually purchased for personal use.

                Anywho, since you want to argue:

                You can’t cancel a service contract or get a refund (…) if you: changed your mind

                Client accepted 50, ordered another 50, bought even more from another print house then request to refund 100. That is change of mind.

                Even clearer:

                Consumer guarantees do not apply if you:

                got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it

                knew of or were made aware of the faults before you bought the product

                (As the service is hand screen printing the clients design on tee shirts)

                And finally:

                If the problem is minor and can be fixed, you can choose how to fix the problem. The consumer cannot cancel and demand a refund immediately. You must have an opportunity to fix the problem.)(https://www.accc.gov.au/business/treating-customers-fairly/c…)

                OP said they offered reprint. Client demanded refund.

                This has nothing to do with ACL. The only reason to refund would be for reputation.

                • @This Guy: Cool. A McLaren is covered. We all know this. Your point?

                  Client accepted 50, ordered another 50, bought even more from another print house

                  This has no relevance whatsoever. They probably didn't even check the stock until the second lot arrived.

                  If the shirts have defects, they have defects. End of story.

                  They ordered from another print house when OP's company didn't bother looking at the stock and posted it back to the customer

                  Even clearer:

                  You've got nothing. There's nothing to indicate this is change of mind. They have specifically referred to the defects and when a remedy wasn't promptly provided they've gone to another retailer in order to obtain the product they desired originally.

                  Customer filled out a spreadsheet listing the defects on each shirt. They differed from the agreed proof (the sample shirt).

                  Even OP admitted the defects "Sure, a % may be crooked or completely off" - note OP has ignored every post asking exactly how many had defects. Their silence is deafening in that regard.

                  This has nothing to do with ACL.

                  It has everything to do with the ACL. This scenario is one of many that caused the ACL and revised consumer guarantees to come into fruition.

                  OP fobbed off the customer twice, posted the stock back for no reason instead of picking up the phone or emailing the customer, made them follow a convoluted process including filling out a 100 row spreadsheet, and the customer still does not have a remedy, even after threatening to let VCAT/NCAT deal with it. OP has instead chosen to suss it out on an online bargain website forum rather than actually reach a solution.

                  The only thing you have chosen to contribute is that OP "should have had a more watertight contract" with bizarre contact breach terms when you should very well know accepting repudiation of the contract wouldn't allow for that. Amazing.

    • -1

      THIS IS NOT ADVICE

      Thanks for clearing that up for us.

  • +1

    Can't you just refund the second batch and refuse the first because he himself said he was happy with it so if he were to take it to court it would make it an easy win for you? Sure he might have weak reasons for getting a refund for everything in the second batch but like you said it's all subjective. You did the right thing by making him list his issues for each and every t-shirt and now that he has provided those reasons I think it's just time to give him the refund (unless those reasons are flat out wrong).

  • +2

    He actually measured those few mms and cms!!
    Tell me will those 100 people will measure if that's few mm/cm off?
    Oh c'mon, seems he's conning you.
    Hope you find a good solution to this!!

  • +1

    You have not breached any consumer laws.

    Let him take it to small claims court and explain your case exactly as you did here. When the Judge throws it out ask if you can be compensated for your time and shipping costs.

  • +2
    • Second batch, returned in a week, customer is entitled to a refund I reckon.
    • Enforcing customer to follow certain return process with the use of courier, unless you are willing to fund the cost, is unreasonable. The customer did pick up the previous orders so your business did not pay for the delivery.
    • Have family members in textile industry. It's not easy and if the customer complained - e.g. the colour is slightly off, generally it is either a full re-print or refund. Obviously, it is easier to re-die raw materials than fixing already done clothing.

    The issue appears to be the second batch. Customer seems quite unhappy with it, so much so that he wanted the whole lot returned. I've sold things where the item is fine, but customer doesn't know how to use it; had items damaged by delivery company. Provided full refund in those cases. As a business, you need to factor those things into your margin. 100% successful in all transactions is unrealistic.

    I think it is more useful to spend time figuring out the quality control issue and maybe figure out ways to prevent these things from happening. When customers have issues with the products purchased, they generally get quite upset fairly quickly. If you play hard ball, things will get worse quite quickly.

    • Thanks, yep quality control is definitely on our improvement list and we're learning and improving day by day. We've been in business for a long time.

      We are very happy to refund or provide remedy for any customers and in the past we've always gone about it very well. Its just this one in particular and how they went about it. There seemed to be an underlying motive, threatening and bullying to get a full refund.

      • Maybe it is the response of an entitled narcissistic millenial who got blamed for doing the artwork wrong after the second batch arrived so chose to blame you instead.

        Success=$$$ in bank, so motivated and attitudinal, not just delusional.

        100:1 odds the other supplier printed a changed image on the order they received.

  • +1

    Give him a refund to save the heartache and donate all the shirts with his businesses logo to the homeless

    • Free advertising. Media might applaud the buyer for clothing the homeless.

  • +1

    bikies…..come on, someone had to say it!

    • can pay them in t-shirts

      win win

  • +1

    For us it's not actually about money and we can certainly refund it.

    If it does go to small claims court, it is my understanding that small claims is set up so as people can represent themselves.

    I'm not a lawyer , I have heard that small claims hardly ever awards costs.
    Therefore even if he follows through with his threat (unlikely) , for the principle of it, I would attend the small claims hearing and argue my case vehemently. You lose out on your time, but at least you get to stand up for yourself and your principles. Might lose the amount of refund at small claims, but then that's not your primary concern .

  • +1

    Refund the money and proceed to use the shirts as dunny paper, save them all up and drop them off at his business one day down the track, and leave them outside the door of the business

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