Going to Court for Going Through a No Left Turn Sign

Lknight321 on 23/06/2019 - 23:56
Last edited 02/07/2019 - 07:28 by 1 other user

Hey all!

I have a court attendance coming up next week for going through a no left turn sign placed on the intersection between Pitt St and Hunter St (NSW CBD). Basically, I dropped my family off in our small Mitsubishi Mirage at Circular Quay and tried looking for some parking around the area.

I was going up through Pitt St, and the first permissible turn was to Hunter Street given the arrow in the lane. The thing is that at the time, there was a bus already waiting at the front of the intersection to turn. As such, both erected signs conveniently placed on the left hand sides were (from my view) obstructed.

After turning in, three police officers came out, and I advised that the bus obstructed my view however he did not listen and said that I should look. This seems like an easy cash grab in my opinion :( How am I meant to see what's around a bus? At the time there was even another car behind me which was also stopped.

The officer said I should write in for leniency, and I asked how I can prove that a bus was indeed in front of me - he said he will upload his GoPro footage with the fine (which he did not). After writing into Revenue NSW it got turned down.

I live in the west and do not generally drive around the city as i'm not very familiar with the area and the signs. I decided to go to court with the hope of getting this thing dismissed…but I have never been to a court before :)

Two questions:

1) Shall I plead guilty with reason or do I have a chance of winning an innocent plead?

2) Will the officer show the GoPro footage of the turn in court?

FYI here are some images of the intersections and erected signs:

https://imgur.com/4rowiTm

https://imgur.com/v8YesQD

https://imgur.com/4N1Tvks

Any advice to help me with this matter would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers.

Edit: outcome of court case https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/465925?page=3#comment-7453…

Automotive

Comments

                        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 12:49
                          +1

                          @John Kimble: I never said he shouldn't go to Court.

                          I never said the signs are not complex etc. The bottom sign attached possibly, but the top not "do not turn left" is very clear. Regardless OP never saw it.

                          I made specific reference to OP not reading the sign in the first place. The topic appears to have moved to the signs, but OP never read it in the first place. OP's driving is the cause of this. Not the bus in front of him nor the sign placement.

                          The law is the law, I don't make it and unfortunately not everyone likes to hear it. It is what it is. If he goes to Court then the viewpoints and references (ie. the Road Rules) I'm making are going to be what he faces. Better off OP reading them and having time to consider it now than attending Court and being blight sighted because OP doesn't know or understand the Rules in force.

                          If OP (and others) don't like what I have to say then fine. But that's the truth. This is what OP faces.

                          Unlike the other thread where the driver merged in front of a truck and provided dash cam video, I'm certain if OP provided dashcam of him tailgating and following the bus around the corner then this thread would be quite different.

                          • John Kimble on 25/06/2019 - 12:55

                            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: But isn't that his argument? He didn't read the sign because he never saw the sign?

                            You argue it is the OPs fault he didn't read the sign because of the way he was driving or not paying attention, yes?

                            I'm not sure it's treated the same, but don't people get out of parking fines because of poor/inadequate signage?

                            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 12:59

                              @John Kimble: I'm not sure I follow?

                              If OP didn't see the sign because he was either

                              a. unobservant; or
                              b. was tailgating the bus

                              then I wouldn't personally believe he has much, if any, chance of getting off the infringement.

                              If OP said he was confused by the sign then it's a different conversation. But OP isn't saying that. He maintains he never saw it.

                              • John Kimble on 25/06/2019 - 13:06
                                +1

                                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Well that's what the crux of the debate is. You blame the OP. OP and others think poor/inadequate signage was a major contributing factor and could be worth trying to convince the magistrate of this.

                                Personally if I were in the OPs shoes, I wouldn't bother taking the risk.

                                Edit: Thinking about other intersections with similar restrictions/conditions, they also don't have more signage leading up to the intersection, so it seems it's the standard to just have them on the intersection itself only.

                                I know this is slightly off topic as you've mentioned, but this one in Chatswood always throws me off, it's no left turn only for long vehicles, except buses!

                                77 Archer St
                                https://maps.app.goo.gl/8ec2UNXmbURmFCJA9

                                • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 15:36

                                  @John Kimble:

                                  others think poor/inadequate signage

                                  Can't really blame the poor signage if OP's actions prevented him from ever reading the sign, let along consider the sign to be poor or inadequate.

                                  If people want the signs to be bigger, brighter colours, more numerous, then I suggest they speak to their local member.

                          • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:05

                            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Just one thing to note - the officer DOES have footage of my turn - and I am certain I did NOT tailgate the bus.

                            In fact there was so much distance for the officers to come right in front of my vehicle right after the turn.

                            Its just a simple mistake man.

                        • Vote for Pedro on 25/06/2019 - 20:46

                          @John Kimble: I don’t disagree that anyone could’ve made the same mistake. However, it seems that the OP is claiming that the bus obstructed the sign but then doesn’t explain how he interpreted the signal (also obstructed) as go for left.

                          If OP simply said ‘should I take a shot at court’ yeah sure, why not. But seems like facts are being cherry picked (and I’m no zeggie ally).

                          • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:07

                            @Vote for Pedro: Like I said I have been waiting behind the bus for the intersection to turn. I followed the bus through, saw a green light for both the forward and left hand directions and followed through the turn.

                            From memory there was not enough time for me to react to the sign as I was already in the intersection. I do not remember the sign being there nor expected one to be there.

                            • Vote for Pedro on 25/06/2019 - 21:14

                              @knight321: Sorry I call bullsht.

                              If you saw green for left you would’ve seen the sign. That’s obvious from your photo.

                              It seems your order of operations for this intersection was:

                              1. Wait behind bus
                              2. Observe bus going
                              3. Follow bus
                              4. Enter intersection
                              5. Phew, it’s green
                              6. Police

                              It should have been:

                              1. Wait behind bus
                              2. Observe bus going
                              3. Observe/ Check signal is green before entering intersection
                              4. See no left turn sign
                              5. Interpret sign, adjust accordingly
  • luffyex2010 on 24/06/2019 - 14:33

    Maybe people are just not so prone to read boring signs, the NSW should conduct a study to reinvent our street signs to this
    street sign 1 or this street sign 2 this might get people to read signs

    • Bid Sniper on 24/06/2019 - 15:17
      +1

      When you have signs like these can you blame them? Plus depending where you are, signs are either before or after the actual turn. People just dotn bother because it makes no sense at a glance.

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-20/sydney-driving-at-the…

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-21/quiz-sydney-confusing…

      • luffyex2010 on 24/06/2019 - 15:27
        +1

        They should just make it bicycle, train or busses in the city only. All cars are parked and collected out of the city.

        Problem Solved.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 24/06/2019 - 15:35
          +1

          Just tax cars heavily for entering the CBD. Had a fairly positive result when London commenced doing this a while back.

      • Vote for Pedro on 25/06/2019 - 20:51

        You know what, I disagree. Sure, there’s a lot going on. If you’re unsure, park, take a look and move on if not suitable (except if no stopping). They are quite logical. Even City of Sydney rangers won’t book you if you’re checking out the signs.

  • luffyex2010 on 24/06/2019 - 15:48
    +1

    NSW signs are all ok once you get used to it especially when you have gone thru or seen most of the signs (maybe I used to drive a lot for my job), maybe I just pay extra attention to traffic signs and especially interstate ones which are slightly different (the hook turn sign in Melbourne got me so puzzled that I had to youtube it to understand lmao).

    The road signs are usually not overcomplicated but I find the lots of detail sign are in the city and have the extra instructions/info which are created for and during peak hours to avoid congestion in the area as they do not have an alternative to solve the traffic issues in the city.

    Sydney CBD structure, transport and etc are one of the worst designs compared to all the other main CBD states in Australia as it is not planned in advanced but along the way, where other states have planned in advance leaving buffer to solve other issues. These are not my words but a sydney train senior engineer when he told me once upon a time Sydney had plans to build the tube like the UK but abandon hopes when they saw the groundwork plan of the city. A wrong drill multi layer would have cut off the whole city's powerline or even collapse a structural building. This was how bad it was underground Sydney CBD.

  • luffyex2010 on 24/06/2019 - 16:09
    +1

    Anyway dress to impress, be truthful, humble, and confident the justice league way.

    Also good to find out about the judge who will be trialing your case as a quick character check could save you on doing harm to your own case….read the outcome of the judge cases, remember detective skills~~

    Court Duty
    Judges in NSW

    and finally, do not dress up as Batman and say I am Batman! that would give the judge to give you a go-to Arkham Asylum straight.

    Good Luck Batsy

    • knight321 on 24/06/2019 - 19:38
      +1

      Haha I will not be in the SUPREME court XD Just a local one. I can see a list of judges but not sure who I will get. I just know I will be really early in the morning.

      • capslock janitor on 24/06/2019 - 20:52
        +1

        Yours is not on a Monday morning is it..? Nobody likes Mondays! ;P srsly lemme know how it goes am curious

        • knight321 on 24/06/2019 - 21:08
          +1

          Fark man yeah Monday 1st of July first thing in the morning :(

          https://giphy.com/gifs/Ra1bmpxpsppNC

          I'll call up Law Access to get some legal advice as well before writing up my statement and speaking up on Monday.

          Yeah man i'm curious too, not only will it be an eye opener but a good experience for the future.

  • dlakers3peat on 25/06/2019 - 01:14
    +1

    Last week went to court to fight a fine. I pleaded guilty but explained the circumstances around why I was fined. I received a section 10 dismissal with no fine and no loss of demerits points. I have very good driving record though. Only 1 fine in the last 17 years, and that fine was 9 years and 6 months ago.

    So you need to provide the court with evidence such the photos you have provided, along with your driving record. Must please guilty though. Also when pleading guilty you do not have to attend court in person. You can fill out the form the send to the court with all the supporting documentation.

    • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:10

      I will attend in person and provide my reasoning. I have recieved two other fines in the last two years - one in 2017 for going in a bus lane (Which I paid off as I was 100% in wrong) and another last year for one fallen P plate (Which is Bizzare because I had both on at the start - got a caution from revenue NSW).

      Not sure if that will help me?

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 21:57
        +2

        Oh wow. You didn't mention this before.

        No section 10 for you. Guaranteed.

        • Vote for Pedro on 25/06/2019 - 22:05
          +1

          Hey OP, some advice if you go to court. Don’t talk to much

          • knight321 on 26/06/2019 - 00:21

            @Vote for Pedro: Good tip :) I'll write a summary statement soon. Heard saying less is more.

            But yeah I think my record is fairly good. Not good enough you think?

            • John Kimble on 26/06/2019 - 02:26

              @knight321: Well RMS themselves say they won't even consider leniency if you don't have a 10 year clean driving record…

              • knight321 on 26/06/2019 - 07:05

                @John Kimble: You mean revenue NSW? Yeah. But in a court I think it will be different. I'm not saying it's great but fairly good??

            • Vote for Pedro on 26/06/2019 - 07:56

              @knight321: I’m starting to think this must be a troll post.

  • redslert on 25/06/2019 - 02:37
    +3

    My advice get another picture with like this one (https://imgur.com/4N1Tvks), but show the GREEN ARROW.

    Then in court admit you turned-left, but show the extremely confusing sign and that you were following the back of a bus.
    From the angle where you sit on the driver's side, the sign is not visible as you saw green arrow and concentrated on the road.

    • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:12

      That's what i'm thinking. Not sure if its worth it though that I get another one with a green arrow? I would need to drive back down to the intersection :)

  • aliam on 25/06/2019 - 04:18

    Could go either way in court - but you must have looked at the traffic light to know it was green to proceed, and there is a big no left turn sign on it. Regardless of the smaller print with the hours, If you couldn't confirm that you were allowed to turn left because the sign with the hours was too confusing then you shouldn't have turned, IF you had seen the larger no left turn sign.

    Good luck, and this reminds me why I hate driving in Sydney, but I just saw rental cars were an exception…

    • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:13

      Haha. Nah man thats why im thinking of pleading guilty for this case. But I will request leniency given the circumstances presented.

      From memory I DID see a green light which just turned as I drove up (I was second in line) - but did not see the sign (I think I looked back onto the road to ensure a safe turn).

    • dcuksuop on 26/06/2019 - 09:37

      hire cars are not rental cars.
      hire cars are like taxis. with a hire car plates, HCXXX.
      another confusing terminology.

  • ipiok on 25/06/2019 - 06:03

    Always plead not guilty. You plead guilty it’s case closed

    • gimme on 25/06/2019 - 08:23
      +5

      Lol wrong wrong wrong

    • John Kimble on 25/06/2019 - 08:45

      Google "Section 10"

  • tkdbboy on 25/06/2019 - 08:15
    +7

    Is the only 'no left turn' sign at the end of that left turning only lane which also has a light dedicated to turning left? Are there any at the start of the lane?

    I may be having a brain fart this morning but what is the everyday driver expected to do during the busy hours indicated on the sign?
    From a distance you've got a giant left only arrow on the ground and left turning lights that would be turning green. The driver would enter the lane, drive up to the end of the lane, find out they're not allowed to turn left so then indicate right to go into the straight lane and potentially bank up traffic?

    Are people expected to be able to read the hours of the sign from the start of the lane?

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 11:08

      OP could simply have proceeded straight ahead in their lane. There are 3 lanes on either side of the intersection.

      The lane markings are an indication only. They operate subject to other Road Rules. Their lane has essentially come to an end. The traffic control device ie. the sign and the intersection traffic lights take precedence.

      Otherwise just indicate and merge right without impeding a drive in the adjacent lane. May take a while in peak hour traffic, trust me I know - I drive in Melbourne CBD traffic where 2 lanes become 1 constantly, but that's the Rules.

      • tkdbboy on 25/06/2019 - 11:15
        +2

        Ah gotcha. So markings on the road bear no legal weight?

        Whenever I see a left turn marked lane, I assume that there isn't a lane on the other side of the intersection for me to go straight unless the road is marked with straight and left.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 11:35
          +1

          They certainly do have legal weight, s 92 of the Road Rules, but intersections, traffic lights, signs etc. take precedence.

      • THL on 25/06/2019 - 16:18
        +3

        OP could simply have proceeded straight ahead in their lane

        Just curious though, isn't it a offence if you decide to proceed straight ahead from a left turn lane?

        • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:23

          Yeah I don't know what could be done in this instance. It seems dangerous, and would choke up traffic.

          I think in a perfect world you would wait there at the front, indicate right and hope someone would let you in.

          But I think the height of the traffic lights at the far end and the placement of the signage seems very silly to me. If it got blocked off for me im sure many others have faced the same.

          Lesson learnt - Check for any booby trap signs after a bus or truck lol

          I could get rekt in court who knows. Or could get mercy lol

          • Vote for Pedro on 25/06/2019 - 21:35

            @knight321:

            I think in a perfect world you would wait there at the front, indicate right and hope someone would let you in.

            Yes, you would indicate right and proceed when safe to do so. All the rest of the words in your comment are just deflection, blame shifting and sympathy attempts.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 21:39
          -2

          Straight ahead is fine.

          Road Rules s 92(2)(b) The traffic sign indicates differently than the traffic lane arrows. OP doesn't fit the requirements to turn left. The lane marking is at an intersection. The sign takes precedence. That road has a lane ahead of it. OP won't impede on any other driver or lane. Subject to the other rules there doesn't appear to be any actual infringement occurring if OP drove straight ahead.

          • Vote for Pedro on 25/06/2019 - 21:43

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Other than it not being where he was wanting to go.

          • THL on 25/06/2019 - 22:55
            +2

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Road Rules s92(2)(b) states "a traffic sign indicates that the driver may drive in a direction different to that indicated by the traffic lane arrows, or"

            I don't see how a No Left Turn Sign is an indication that the driver may drive in a different direction?

          • factor on 25/06/2019 - 22:58

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: That's not what 92(2)(b) says!

            No traffic sign indicates the driver "may" go straight ahead. Thus they are not excused from the obligation to turn left.

            • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 23:01

              @factor: That was my mindset going through the intersection.

              Now theoretically speaking if I had stopped right in the middle of the intersection with the sign bright as daylight - what do I do? Casually merge right?

              I thought once im in an intersection I cant start changing lanes - is it not a safety issue?

              • factor on 25/06/2019 - 23:03

                @knight321: "I thought once im in the intersection I cant change lanes - its a safety issue?"

                It appears there is no rule preventing changing lanes in the Australian Road Rules. I was looking for that, because then the case is easy - no legal option - so you chose the least disruptive.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 23:05

              @factor: Did you both forget the green traffic light? It's an intersection.

              The traffic sign negates the obligation to turn left. Turning left is not permitted.

              The green traffic light permits entering the intersection. The green left signal traffic light is NOT mandatory to turn left.

              • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 23:08

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Left lane to turn left - other lanes to go straight.

              • factor on 25/06/2019 - 23:09

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Please read the rule again. Law is precise. If it meant to refer to traffic signals rather than signs it would have.

                (PS: unless you are absolutely painful in your precise application of logic, don't self represent and plead not guilty!)

                • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 23:11

                  @factor: It's pretty clear in that section. The lane marking operates subject to the traffic sign. The sign says OP cannot turn.

                  • factor on 25/06/2019 - 23:20

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: The sign does not say the OP can go straight. That's all that is relevant to 92(2)(b).

                    Not wishing to be rude - however - I suggest you never try to defend a traffic matter without legal assistance. Law is painfully precise, and your reading is not.

                    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 23:30

                      @factor: Read my posts again. I never said the SIGN permits going straight. The traffic lights do.

                      Lane marking. Turn left.
                      Traffic control device ie. Sign says you cannot turn left.

                      I specifically said subject to other rules.

                      s 329, s 331 the traffic lights, all lights, apply to that left lane.

                      Law is not precise. It's heavily interpretation.

  • Piranha2004 on 25/06/2019 - 08:17
    +3

    THats very poor sign positioning. You cant read it until its too late. Should really be an extra one a bit further down where you can read before you enter the lane.

    • John Kimble on 25/06/2019 - 08:39
      +1

      Yep, or at least make the font size bigger…just walked past it and I could only read it when I was within about 15m (3 car lengths?) away…could be my shit eyesight though.

      • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:27

        No it is definitely small. The traffic lights on the far left end are also really low compared to the right ones.

        Man at the time I was driving my mums car. I have a dashcam in my personal car but she insisted we go in hers and BANG I get this crap :/

  • WaterMark on 25/06/2019 - 08:53

    Sorry you are in the wrong. From your third image you can clearly see not only one “no left turn” turn BUT there is a second one. The other one is at lights behind it and that sign would of been in full view.

    I would just pay the fine and learn from your mistakes. Even though one sign is covered does not negate your responsibility of looking at the second sign.

    The sign is “no left turn”, yes there are text under it, then if you are unsure/cannot read it all in time then do not turn and assume you can.

    I’m order for you to turn, you would of looked at the traffic light in front (since the one you say is covered). That means you HAVE to see that “no left turn” as that sign is slightly higher than the traffic light that you saw to turn.

    https://imgur.com/4N1Tvks

    • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:30

      No I was obstructed by the bus so best chance would be me noticing the sign at the far end.

      I did not have time to read the sign when I got to the front of the intersection. Saw a green arrow and checked back onto the road to ensure a safe turn.

      I did not tail gate from memory - the bus did take time to turn. There was a safe enough gap for the officers to jump right infront of my vehicle.

      If only there was a dashcam in my mums car hey :/

      • Vote for Pedro on 25/06/2019 - 21:48
        -2

        What, the big no left turn picture?

        If you couldn’t read the text, you could have done the next logical thing and not turn left.

  • CalmLemons on 25/06/2019 - 09:55
    +1

    TLDR

    Something like this shouldn't be allowed on the roads. Beaurocratic red tape. Obviously, this won't change until a middle age white blonde lady gets killed at the intersection and then they fix it the next day.

  • lint on 25/06/2019 - 10:06

    I'm not sure you have much of a case.

    Yes, it is a bit strange to have the left turn lane and light and then also a no left turn sign, but that sign is literally right next to the left turn light in a way that you could not miss it unless you also ignored the traffic light.

    You can only argue that the sign isn't a simple "No left turn" but with conditions and so due to obstruction by the bus, by the time it came into view there was little opportunity to parse its conditions while moving with the flow of traffic.

    Either way, you've already elected to take the matter to court, wouldn't a guilty plea pretty much wrap proceedings up, making you liable for the fine, and additional penalties, plus court costs? That would have been a very poor decision compared to just copping the fine.

    In future, you should consider only taking matters to court if you have reasonable prospects of winning.

    • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 22:12
      +1

      No I can provide the magistrate with a guilty plea as per breaking the road rules per signs there.

      Then provide a submission for lenience, being the circumstances presented. Also my driving record. From what I read from here that's my best chance. It can get dismissed, a reduced fine or stay as it is.

      I dont expect it to fly through but fingers crossed :)

      When writing my statement - I will refer back to some of the useful comments in this thread.

  • Mrgreenz on 25/06/2019 - 10:06
    +2

    Bad signage, good luck OP

  • pistachio on 25/06/2019 - 13:30
    +1

    That is one hell of confusing sign with or without a bus around.
    You should challege the fine.
    Good luck

  • Mainsail on 25/06/2019 - 14:32
    +1

    You cannot proceed thru the intersection from that lane. Can you change lanes after you are at the intersection, i dont think so.

    It also isn't really a safety issue as other cars are permitted to use it.

    • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:35

      Yes I will be mentioning this. I was already in the lane and it is dangerous to change lanes when im in front.

      The design of the intersection could be improved to ensure clear visibility of the signage when buses are there. Its not fair to only get the chance to do so when you reach the front of the intersection after waiting only to realise you cant turn when you had the assumption the whole time that you can.

      • Vote for Pedro on 25/06/2019 - 21:38
        -1

        Sorry, Pitt St at peak hour? Cars aren’t flying. Probably barely hitting 20. A merge is reasonably possible within 30 seconds for an inexperienced driver.

        • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:48

          I do not remember much traffic there tbh it was fairly flowing all the way through Pitt st at the time…this happened 4:40 PM on a Friday.

  • Tightpocket on 25/06/2019 - 15:06
    +1

    What did you wrote to the Revenue? sometimes pleading guilty and admit your mistakes and ask for leniency given your driving record helps with your case.

    I got fined 2 times and 2 times it got waived, maybe i got lucky but I believe it has something to do with how you presented the case.

    Is it really worth it though to go to the court on Monday morning to get $265 waived (possibly at best at this point)? I know its good to prove a point but is it really worth your time to go through all that and losing sleep for days over it, specially when you can pay the fine comfortably as you said earlier. asking an honest question here and not trying to flaming you or anything.

    • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:40

      Too late now man.

      I'm just furious over the obstruction, crap signs and lane. The lights on the left side far end are not only really distant but low (as compared to the one on the right).

      Dunno only time will tell now. Only hoping that the judge will consider these mitigating factors.

  • serpserpserp on 25/06/2019 - 16:40
    +2

    Really need a MS Paint storyboard to understand what happened here.

    • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 21:41

      Haha ill make sure to draw it out and take it to court. Paint is OP ;)

  • Lockieasy on 25/06/2019 - 17:47
    +2

    I would never have noticed the time section of that sign with all the extra visual stimuli around that comes with driving around the CBD.

    That said, seeing 'no left turn' would make me not turn because it's very easy to end up going the wrong way down a one way street in the CBD. Good luck OP.

  • gimme on 25/06/2019 - 18:27
    +4

    Completely unrelated but here's my rant about MELBOURNE drivers who don't understand how hook turns work and get on the horn. This happens almost at every intersection at every light change. In a nutshell when you are doing a hook turn, the lights you need to observe are the ones on the side that you are turning into. You move when they turn GREEN. Most dumbarse drivers in Melbourne don't know this and treat it as a 'give way' turning lane where you typically turn when the light is amber on your side. They get all agro and start beeping when someone actually does the right thing and waits for green.

    https://youtu.be/Yh92LirlCf8

    The whole thing is actually VERY SIMPLE if you understand the rules but morons don't seem to get it /rant over

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 25/06/2019 - 18:55

      Preaching to the choir here. I drive in the CBD regularly. Seems nobody knows how to do one and is indeed very frustrating :(

    • prinsenhof on 25/06/2019 - 21:05
      +3

      Tell you what, the amount of times i've had to get on the horn in when i visit Melbourne is crazy. So many drivers who are randomly turning right from the left hand lane. It almost as crazy as the canberrians who decide a merge is a free for all and stop the painted lines.

      Meanwhile in sydney you get this shit where your in the left lane, but your not allowed to make the turn until 4pm so your left waiting at the lights for like 3 hours.

      • knight321 on 25/06/2019 - 22:17

        Love your last line HAHA

    • tkdbboy on 26/06/2019 - 11:09
      +2

      Anytime I think interstaters and hook turns, this comes into mind:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU0EMYugsiQ

      • gimme on 26/06/2019 - 11:38
        +1

        Lol funny thing is locals don't have a clue so def no hope for interstaters.

      • prinsenhof on 26/06/2019 - 18:15

        lol, funniest shit ive seen.

        Personally i've stopped in the right lane to let people who i thought were trying to merge in. Bit red faced after i eventually passed them and saw the hook turn sign.

        Now whenever i visit melbourne i just keep on going straight, i'm not sure how these bus train things work.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 26/06/2019 - 18:20

        Gold! Haven't seen this in agesss.

        Giannopoulos looks nothing like that now lol

  • Dancasper on 25/06/2019 - 20:20
    +1

    OP, you may have some leeway in that it is a very rare combination of restrictions and that it would not be readily interpreted. It is not uncommon in Sydney CBD area to have turn restrictions confined to peak hour periods. It is not uncommon for left turn restrictions applying only to larger vehicles (the swept path of a larger vehicle encroaches into the opposing lane). But for a sign to limit the turn at peak periods with EXCEPTION to larger vehicles is very rare. An argument could be made that a driver may not perceive the true meaning of the sign, only having a 3-4 second period to interpret the hours AND exceptions, on approach to a busy intersection. The time given to interpret the sign may be reduced by the bus in front obscuring the sign but you would need to get mathematical to back that up (bus approach speed, your distance behind bus, etc)

    On the other hand…the bus would have been moving slowly around the intersection (say 5-10km/hr?) and this would give you at least 5-7 seconds to read and interpret the sign once the bus had entered the intersection….good luck answering to that!

    Let us know how you go!

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