Minor Car Accident - Not Sure if at Fault

kamac93 on 16/05/2019 - 11:21
Last edited 16/05/2019 - 11:37

Hi all,

Just need some quick advice on a small vehicle accident which occurred to me on Sunday night.

I was at a shopping centre car park, reversing out and was about 3/4 out when my right-back bumper colliding with another car's left-back bumper of whom started reversing (and didn't see me..?) in the opposite direction.

My vehicle is virtually unscathed whilst the other vehicle had some damage - I was on a higher elevation so their rear light and bumper were damaged enough to require repairs.

Although I believe the other driver was at fault, I was happy to say we hit each other and leave it at that, the other person also agreed. We exchanged details and information.

They have now texted me with an invoice they received for repairs for $900 and asking me: "How do you want to go about it from here?". Whereas my vehicle's damage is negligible and I will not look at getting repairs done.

I was under the impression that they would sort their damage out, and that I was responsible for my own damage.

Additionally, their license I took a picture of was expired and they were a 'provisional' driver which had expired a year ago and they did not display 'P' plates - maybe they provided me an older license? Probably not relevant but may be if police are involved and they are legally not allowed to drive…?

Does anyone have any advice as to how to approach this or have been in a similar situation?

I don't necessarily want to get insurance involved and be forced to claim and pay an excess etc. Especially as I believe I wasn't at fault. My girlfriend was in my passenger's seat as a witness and the other vehicle only had a single driver and no passengers.

Any recommendations or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

PHOTOS - My car is the silver Astra, the other party's is the white Corolla.

https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/171131/69212/toyota1.j…

https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/171131/69211/astra1.jp…

Automotive

Comments

  • SydEng on 16/05/2019 - 11:23
    +20

    We need our complimentary Microsoft paint of what happened to determine fault.

    • AnDyStYLe on 16/05/2019 - 11:29
      +16

      *obligatory

      • [Deactivated] on 16/05/2019 - 11:33
        +1

        I think they mean a diagram to compliment the word picture.

        • Quantumcat on 16/05/2019 - 12:36
          +9

          Complement?

        • ronnknee on 16/05/2019 - 16:15
          +8

          Diagram: Hey Word Picture, you look nice today.

    • kamac93 on 16/05/2019 - 11:37
      +1

      Updated. Sorry!

      • Homr on 16/05/2019 - 12:05
        +12

        where's the MS paint diagram?

  • Skramit on 16/05/2019 - 11:26
    +20

    So you were both reversing? That means you're both at fault most likely if it's how I am picturing your description. For an accident in a carpark where both parties are reversing, I'd be pretty sure any insurance claim would find both parties 50% at fault each.

    Your best move if you don't want to involve insurance, is to ignore them and go about your business. They have no legal standing to get money out of you by sending you a text. If they then engage their own insurance, they you'll likely have to pay your excess and let the insurance companies fight it out.

    Don't be bullied by the other party. If you are feeling bullied, pay your excess and let the insurance take over. Your insurance company is essentially your lawyer in this situation, and unfortunately as you were 50% at fault, you have to pay for them to represent you.

    • minniethemoocher on 17/05/2019 - 14:57

      This ^^^. You should both pay for your own damage.

      • p3nf0ld on 18/05/2019 - 11:07
        +1

        That's not how it works. They claim half the damage against you $450 and you claim half the damage against them $0. So this means you owe them $300. In reality you would ignore them but if they involved their insurance company then you would get a quote for your repair and past that onto your insurance company and get them to fight it out.

  • Therage on 16/05/2019 - 11:31
    -3

    If you don't want to get insurance involved and for $900 ($450 each it's likely not worth it).

    I would either go 50/50 with them and write it off as bad luck or get a quote for the small damage on your car and send it to them, with any luck its a similar price and you can both just sort your own cars out.

    • Krankite on 16/05/2019 - 13:18
      +2

      I'm guessing from the photo your probably happy to not bother getting the bumper fixed but if they aren't happy each paying their own then you should 100% get a quote even if you don't follow through. Your probably looking at $400 for touching up the paint work of $900 to replace, not worth doing or a scratch.

      I'd respond you that you haven't got around to having your's checked out and suggest you each just pay your own repairs. Most of the time carparks are automatic 50-50 liability.

  • shaz0316 on 16/05/2019 - 11:35
    +26

    Tell him your damage comes to $900 as well to repair and so you both break even by paying your individual repairs. If you agreed you are both at fault then there's no reason you pay for this repairs.

    • Strahany on 16/05/2019 - 21:45
      +5

      Better yet, say your damage comes to $980 but you’ll call it even because you’re a nice person.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 17/05/2019 - 15:25
        +2

        Or $4,900 and milk him for $2,0001.

        1. This is fraud. Don't do this. No, really, don't! ↩

        • Spanglish on 17/05/2019 - 18:35
          +1

          Or…
          Be nice to each udder?

          • CMH on 18/05/2019 - 12:41

            @Spanglish: Usually I'm nice to udders as a whole.

            Will try being nice to each individual udder for a change.

  • pjetson on 16/05/2019 - 11:39
    +24

    How do you want to go about it from here?

    If you're going down the "both equally at fault" track, just tell them that you will pay for the damage to your car, and they can pay for the damage to their car.

    • Skramit on 16/05/2019 - 11:48

      Probably the right answer here.

    • rave75 on 16/05/2019 - 17:36
      +1

      Should have that agreement written though.

    • nith265 on 17/05/2019 - 16:50
      -1

      If you're going down the "both equally at fault" track, just tell them that you will pay for the damage to your car, and they can pay for the damage to their car.

      It’s in OP’s best interest to try this and hope they accept it as fair.

      Unfortunately the law is each party would pay 50% of the other persons damages – OP will be out of pocket unless their damages are the same amount

      • GhostofB on 18/05/2019 - 08:30
        -1

        There is no law that forces people to pay 50% of each other's damage. Magistrates decide how to apportion damage, and each party fixing their own vehicle is absolutely a possible outcome.

        • nith265 on 20/05/2019 - 21:34
          -1

          If it went trial ​and you were ​​aportioned ​50% ​​liability then YES ​the law says ​you need to pay ​50%​ of the other parties loss.​

          Negotiated settlements before court could be anything ​but the above ​is the basic civil law principle​ that negotiations would begin from.

  • pjetson on 16/05/2019 - 11:44
    +6

    Although I believe the other driver was at fault

    How? Neither of you were aware of the other car, so neither of you were taking sufficient care when reversing. On your description, both of you were at very much at fault, by the same amount, and both of you should hand in your licences.

    Let's say it was a child you reversed into instead of another car. Would it be the child's fault?

    Taking proper care while reversing means continuing to look the whole time that you are reversing.

  • mbck on 16/05/2019 - 11:45
    +4

    He's driving with expired licence….I mean you could bring the police up but I'm sure they'd rather not…

    • AdosHouse on 16/05/2019 - 11:55
      +12

      Expired licence means he shouldn't be on the road, which means his would be 100% at fault, also no insurance for him.

      OP tell him you called your insurance to make a claim and you passed on his expired licence details, and your insurance asked you to get his current licence details for the record. If he tries to get out of it, there is your easy out. If he has a current licence, pick where to go from there.

      • Hellfire on 16/05/2019 - 11:59
        +11

        An expired licence does not affect liability and does not make the other party 100% at fault.

        You are correct about insurance, they won't be covered.

        • Homr on 16/05/2019 - 12:09
          -1

          How is it not? You're allowed to drive with a expired licence now??

          • oscargamer on 16/05/2019 - 12:12
            +7

            @Homr: The status of the driver licence has no bearing on the fault in the collision. Fairly clear IMO.

            The unlicenced driver will have no insurance and if police get involved, will get hit with a ticket for that or taken to court….you could use that as leverage to see if the other driver thinks that police should get involved…..

            • Homr on 16/05/2019 - 12:13
              -1

              @oscargamer: But he/she shouldn't of been on the road. If they were not on the road, OP wouldn't of bumped into them.

              • oscargamer on 16/05/2019 - 12:13
                +6

                @Homr: Agreed, but not relevant when talking about fault.

                • Homr on 16/05/2019 - 12:14

                  @oscargamer: Is that how insurance works? what a farce!

                  If that's the case then I agree with mentioning the expired license to the other party for them to back off

              • Hellfire on 16/05/2019 - 12:20
                +2

                @Homr: The classic case is hitting an illegally parked car. 0‰ liability on the parked car and 100% on the one hitting it.

            • mbck on 16/05/2019 - 12:20
              +1

              @oscargamer: That's what I was hinting at.

              Obviously I'm no littlefinger

              Cue got theme song

            • chumlee on 16/05/2019 - 12:31

              @oscargamer: Yes but a fine from police for driving without a license is about equal to car damage

        • kamac93 on 16/05/2019 - 12:21
          +2

          Update - they have provided me with their current valid license…

          • Skramit on 16/05/2019 - 13:07

            @kamac93: Did they have an explanation? Who provides a 1 year old license in an accident then next day provides the current one? WTF.

            If I were you OP, cut off contact. You are under no obligation to discuss anything with them.

            • kamac93 on 16/05/2019 - 13:09

              @Skramit: It happened at night so I'm assuming they had both out of date and current license and weren't paying attention to which one they gave me.

              I will try and get an exaggerated quote to 'fix' my vehicle and then show them the invoice and hopefully they will leave it be…

              • Skramit on 16/05/2019 - 13:14

                @kamac93: Ha sorry but that sounds dodgey as f……

                "Oh sorry officer I lost my ID…."

          • Homr on 16/05/2019 - 13:39

            @kamac93: oh what a shame

  • AdosHouse on 16/05/2019 - 11:48
    +1

    Both equally at fault, 50/50 split in damages.

    If other party wants to go down the insurance route, make sure you get your car fixed too, won't cost any extra.

  • Seraphin7 on 16/05/2019 - 12:07
    +2

    I'd be putting this through insurance and letting them sort it out, including the damage to your vehicle. The probabilities are that the net cost, especially once you factor in your time (and the potential for grief with the other party) will be of negligible difference between the two.

    As an aside, if I'm in an accident and the other party cannot produce a valid licence, it's straight on the phone to the po-po and get them out to sort out what's going on. If nothing else, the inability to hold and carry a valid licence does not auger well for any form of settlement.

  • Homr on 16/05/2019 - 12:11
    -5

    I would go to the cop and say that you are being black mailed by an unlicensed driver

    • oscargamer on 16/05/2019 - 12:13
      +9

      Very poor advice

      • oscargamer on 16/05/2019 - 12:24
        +5

        Wow - got negged for saying that making a false report to police is a bad idea??? Good luck with the rest of your life choices if you think that my advice is poor……

        • Quantumcat on 16/05/2019 - 12:39
          +1

          I gave you a + to make up for it

          • oscargamer on 16/05/2019 - 12:41
            +2

            @Quantumcat: Meow :)

          • [Deactivated] on 16/05/2019 - 13:37

            @Quantumcat: Dunno about the upvote vigilantes that just square things relatively :p

          • oscargamer on 16/05/2019 - 14:01
            +4

            @Homr: Grow up. Your advice suggested something illegal, hence the neg.

            • Homr on 16/05/2019 - 14:04
              -2

              @oscargamer: going to the cops and reporting a possible blackmail is not illegal.

              • Quantumcat on 16/05/2019 - 14:26
                +2

                @Homr: There's not even any blackmail. The definition of blackmail is

                the action, treated as a criminal offence, of demanding payment or another benefit from someone in return for not revealing compromising or damaging information about them.

                What "compromising or damaging information" is the other person threatening to reveal?

              • oscargamer on 16/05/2019 - 14:28

                @Homr: You've been watching too many Mercan cop movies…..I'm guessing you don't have a lot of life experience?

    • GhostofB on 18/05/2019 - 08:33
      -1

      If you don't smarten up you've got prison in your future.

  • brad1-8tsi on 16/05/2019 - 12:15
    +9

    Both equally at fault and other driver is unlicenced.

    If they want to fight it then ask them to meet you at the police station and make a statutory declaration of the events.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/05/2019 - 12:34

      Best answer.

    • ravonda on 17/05/2019 - 17:07

      I'm genuinely curious; does it really make a difference for them to sign a statutory declaration? If they are willing to lie about it in the first place, why wouldnt they just continue with it since there's no evidence to show otherwise?

      • brad1-8tsi on 22/05/2019 - 07:59

        Would you sign a court admissible document in front of a police officer that says "I was driving without a licence and had a crash…"

        They won't bother the OP anymore after that.

        • ravonda on 22/05/2019 - 20:45

          How about signing a court admissible document in front of a police officer that says "I was driving and had a crash…"

          They could've just said they accidentally took the old license out from their wallet and gave it to OP. Nothing wrong with that?

          • brad1-8tsi on 23/05/2019 - 07:44

            @ravonda: You don't think the Police Officer would ask to see proof of ID and a licence? OP just has to inform the Police Officer that the other person didn't have a valid licence and that will prompt an action..

  • chumlee on 16/05/2019 - 12:33
    +4

    You may have damage behind the bumper that cannot be seen so go see a panel beater and get a quote.

    This is a both at fault accident and each pays their own

    I would tell other party you will report it to police. If they are unlicensed they will cop a large fine

    • cwongtech on 18/05/2019 - 11:56

      +1

      To the OP
      Check if your boot closes properly!

  • josetann on 16/05/2019 - 12:50
    +9

    Get a quote. Go direct to the dealer for your car, make sure they notice any tiny thing that might have been caused by the accident. Send the other driver the bill for $3k. Ask how they want to proceed. Follow up in a week and ponder why their number is disconnected.

    • pegaxs on 16/05/2019 - 13:15
      +3

      This is what I would do. Go and get a quote on my own car, make sure it's more than what the other party is asking for and ask them "so, how did you want to pay for this?"

    • kamac93 on 16/05/2019 - 13:41

      Cheers guys, I think I'll take this advice. Appreciate it!

      • pinchies on 16/05/2019 - 18:32

        Tip: try a prestige car auto body shop. For extra points! :-P

  • [Deactivated] on 16/05/2019 - 13:33
    +1

    Keep in mind that your damage might be minor but the labour cost is more. Your cost might well be $600 for a tiny scratch. Maybe get a quote of your own. Drop in a few times that you are also happy letting it go to the insurers.

  • Lv80 on 16/05/2019 - 15:37

    Might be worth saying that you'll have to lodge a police report and give a copy of their license to the police. Personally I agree…anyone only starting to back out should be at fault where someone else is already almost fully backing out. Sadly this isn't how the law works or car parks.

    Suggest you are happy to pay for the damages to your own car if they look after theirs…otherwise you'll speak to our insurance co. and hand in the details of their license to the police to get a stat dec…if they were in fact unlicensed I doubt they will want the cops involved and checking the validity of their license and issuing a fine for driving without a license.

  • Ocker on 16/05/2019 - 16:13
    +2

    How about you taking the stance that you were both reversing at the same time BUT when you saw the other party reversing you immediately stopped. The other party continued to reverse and then hit your car.
    Remember, the best form of defence is offense, so, go out and get a quote for your car and send it to the other party. Claim that as they hit your stationary car you want compensation.

  • Seedy seed on 16/05/2019 - 16:24
    +5

    Just reply, hi whos this? I just signed up to this number via tpg a week ago???

    Lol

  • lechuck123 on 16/05/2019 - 18:36
    +1

    You have some damage to your car that I'm guessing would require a new bumper. Get a quote for a replacement bumper for your car, even if it only comes to $700, then the difference is $200 and you can let them know you'll split the difference at $100.

  • Capo93 on 16/05/2019 - 21:57

    If you were both reversing at time of impact you are both at fault so basically you need to cover your own damage.

    Happened to me reversing out of my driveway at home with the old bloke across the road, I had all four of my wheels on the road and he just got his rear wheels on the road but because at time of impact we were both still rolling backwards it’s both at fault.

    If you were stopped and changing gears and they hit you then that’s a different story.

  • lostn on 17/05/2019 - 12:43

    Happened to me once. Joint fault if you're both reversing into each other. He can speak to his insurance and you speak to yours. But if you had no damage you don't even have to do that.

    Doesn't matter if the collision point was closer to your side or their side.

    If they're asking for money, file an insurance claim. They'll confirm whether or not you're at fault.

  • roguescholar on 17/05/2019 - 13:35
    -2

    PSA: Use your indicators to warn others when exiting a parking spot (or even using hazards depending on visibility).
    Also doing a quick walk around your car to check visibility.

    • johnno07 on 17/05/2019 - 15:39
      +4

      I mean, you already have reverse lights that indicate this exact thing.

      • pjetson on 17/05/2019 - 16:58
        +1

        Use your indicators to warn others when exiting a parking spot (or even using hazards depending on visibility)

        That only works if people are looking, which seems to have been the problem here.

        And having your reverse or hazard lights on doesn't give you any kind of right-of-way anyway.

  • nith265 on 17/05/2019 - 16:45

    It’s vitally important that you also get your own quote and you want it to be as high as possible

    Remember that if you’re both 50% at fault, you pay half of their damage and they pay half of yours.

  • smartazz104 on 17/05/2019 - 18:53
    +1

    This is what happens when people are too lazy to reverse into a parking spot…

  • jtc13 on 17/05/2019 - 20:06
    +2

    Hi OP - I had a similar experience one day in a car park where I reversed out turning one way and the exact opposite happened with the other party from the other side. Much less damage to both cars than you described but as a precaution I called my insurer who said in a case like that liability would most likely be considered 50/50 at fault. If they make a claim against you it will most likely mean you both pay an excess and the insurance companies sort it out. In my case the other driver agreed to each look after damage to their own car. Good luck with yours.

    • andrek on 17/05/2019 - 23:04

      Also had a similar case, my wife reversed out from a parking spot and hit the back of another reversing car. Called insurance - they told me in these cases each driver will be responsible for fixing their own car's damage (not 50/50). Received a call from the other driver - told him to call insurance. He later left a demand letter with a quote in our mailbox - I ignored it. That was about 5 years ago. Haven't heard from him since.

  • Kranbone on 18/05/2019 - 00:14

    unless you are stationary, it might be considered 50/50.

    take your car to the most expensive body shop, pay them to get a quote and send it to the other party saying you want them to repair your car.

    It might encourage them to shut up.

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