Advice Needed: Sold Car, Buyer Says It Has Major Defect

MechEng on 08/04/2019 - 22:38
Last edited 10/04/2019 - 21:10

I sold a 10yr 125000 km car privately.
The car was in great condition at time of sale.
Note that this car was definitely not a high yield investment, but a good, boring reliable one.
I was second owner 5 yr ownership and never any issue. All maintenance recorded in log book.
Sold the car in at the beginning of the year and after 2 months buyer sends letter claiming that the car overheated due to some sort of dodgy fix (got a mechanics report), and that I was deliberately lying when sold car.
I got really offended because I look after my vehicles very well, and I felt personally attacked.
Is there something the buyer can do that will end up costing me money?
Any advice that someone can give me?

I feel trapped in some sort of reverse lemon issue where the buyer is trying to get me to pay for something that they did to the car, but I am not willing to. I am even willing to go to court if needed as I feel that is their onus to prove that:
1- there was an issue with the car at the time of sale( there wasn't)
2- I knew about such issue
3- I intentionally did not tell the buyer about such issue
Any advice is greatly appreciated

Note: thank you all for your comments. I've decided to wait and do nothing until (if) properly notified.
I really felt personally attacked on this one because I wouldn't do something like that. I will keep you posted if something changes. Cheers. ME

Automotive

Comments

  • Circly on 08/04/2019 - 22:42
    +86

    It's been two months. Not sure they can do anything?

    • ESEMCE on 10/04/2019 - 12:59
      +11

      It was a private sale, not sure there was ever anything they could have done.
      As far as I'm aware in a private sale, it's a case of Buyer Beware, there is no protection.

  • fantombloo on 08/04/2019 - 22:45
    +45

    Even if 1, 2, and 3 were true it only makes you a douchebag, not liable now.

      • Mitch889 on 09/04/2019 - 19:17
        +4

        What I read in the link doesn’t say that at all.

        It says that purposefully deceiving someone could make you liable. In that case, the seller stated full history and no issues, however the dealership that last serviced it claims they documented and notified the previous owner of issues with the engine, counter to the claims made.

        Why the dealership gave an unrelated party the records from the previous owner is another issue….

        • gyrex on 11/04/2019 - 09:01

          My response was directly to @thevofa who made a claim that the OP is not liable, even if 1,2 & 3 are valid, which is not necessarily true per this paragraph in the attached link:

          "If, as alleged in the letter above, you did represent to the purchaser that you had provided a full service history but failed to include information given by your mechanic about issues with the motor, it is possible that a court would find you engaged in misleading or deceptive conduct. While private sales of vehicles are not covered by statutory misleading and deceptive conduct provisions, the buyer will have basis to sue you at common law"

  • Woodinski on 08/04/2019 - 22:49
    +70

    Nothing the buyer can do. Block his number/ignore his letters and move on.

    • MechEng on 08/04/2019 - 22:52

      Sorry did not read after block here number. thanks for the reply

      • Zonty on 10/04/2019 - 23:22

        Tell buyer suck it up lol ( not tell just block contact no and email) He can not do anything as far there is not any written contract.

  • robbyjones on 08/04/2019 - 22:50
    +37

    Block the buyers number and move on. Caveat Emptor

  • spackbace on 08/04/2019 - 22:53
    +22

    Too bad, so sad

    • anzacpaul on 10/04/2019 - 09:00
      +19

      Fitting comment from a car salesman ;)

  • pao2x on 08/04/2019 - 22:57
    +21

    No warranties for private sale. Too bad for them

  • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2019 - 23:02
    -6

    In Vic I have a vague memory of $5000 making a RWC necessary. Might only apply to a dealer, maybe private sales also.

    • tomsco on 09/04/2019 - 07:36
      +5

      All second hand passenger car sales in Victoria require a RWC. You can not transfer the registration without a RWC.

      • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2019 - 18:34
        -8

        Looking at vicroads there are exemption categories, for example "Spouse/domestic partner to spouse/domestic partner". Also sales to a dealer and between dealers do not require a RWC. It's detailed under their section "Transfer fees & roadworthy exemptions".

        • johnno07 on 09/04/2019 - 22:25
          +5

          And this is none of those things.

            • johnno07 on 10/04/2019 - 16:57
              +4

              @[Deactivated]: Congrats, dude. You've successfully nitpicked yourself to a technical victory in an argument that nobody was having - except you.

              johnno07 on 10/04/2019 - 16:57 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
              • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2019 - 18:11
                -3

                @johnno07: Salutations, amigo. OzBargain loooves completeness. Happy to help, compadre. Why is the groupthink-o-meter part something to be proud of?

                • Hardlyworkin on 11/04/2019 - 13:17

                  @[Deactivated]: Does it? The downvotes tell a different story.

                  • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2019 - 13:43
                    -1

                    @Hardlyworkin: You can get upvotes for writing a bot that writes only eneloops or bikies if that is what motivates you. Downvotes from people of below average intelligence are upvotes IMHO. The longer you are in agreement with dullards, the greater the chance you are one.

                    Just maybe the one horse town sheriff complex is quite funny. Maybe Johnno's Bill and Ted impression was better than mine.

    • trongy on 09/04/2019 - 08:51
      +19

      In Victoria, the RWC is not designed to check for impending failure. It's a check of safety related features that are required to legally drive right now - e.g. tyres, lights, brakes, windscreen seat belts, structural integrity. The RWC is required to transfer registration.

      It's plausible that the vehicle could have had the issue described, but still been legally roadworthy at the time of sale.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2019 - 23:04
    +48

    Sold as is.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2019 - 23:10

    Do you have any more details of the issue? Maybe a temporary fix to the leaking radiator?

    • MechEng on 08/04/2019 - 23:18
      +4

      The mechanics reports days that found some sort of adhesive in the coolant. It is all.
      Damage consistent with overheating and comments about that must have been aware, and looks like tampered with.
      There are some comments in the customer comments box about the fact that the car was seen by other mechanics that advised new engine needed.
      Owned that car for long time. Used Otto drive long distances, it absolutely never overheated.

      • BobD on 09/04/2019 - 07:23
        +9

        Incompatible coolants can possibly do that. You may have been using coolant XYZ and their mechs tip in coolant ABC on top of that. Instant sludge. I had a Ford have that problem. Crossflow radiator meant that the bottom half of the radiator didn't work.

        • nfr on 09/04/2019 - 07:28

          How to avoid issues like this?

          • derpdeder on 09/04/2019 - 08:08
            +9

            @nfr: Drain coolant before adding new coolant

            • MechEng on 09/04/2019 - 12:51
              +4

              @derpdeder: This could only had happened at the mechanics during service. I always use either the recommended coolant or demineralised water

              • resisting the urge on 09/04/2019 - 23:26

                @MechEng: +1

                This: Always use the manufacturer spec coolant.

                Avoid multi-vehicle compatibles, look for products designed for your specific brand.

                Change it every two years, so that means drain, refill with correct (usually 33-50%) mix of coolant to demineralised water and bleed excess air. I drain, and fill with water before draining again to remove all the old coolant. Flushing is ok, but filling and running is usually better at getting it out.

                Always drain direct from the block or refill with water in between refills. This allows expensive cooling system parts to last as long as they can reasonably be expected to. NOTE: As many are plastic now, don't expect them to last forever.

  • zonra on 08/04/2019 - 23:17
    +22

    Is there something the buyer can do that will end up costing me money?

    Not a thing, regardless whether it was an existing issue at point of sale or one that developed after.
    You're not obligated to do anything even if you sold it yesterday, let alone 2 months ago.
    Buyer is just trying their luck.

    • MechEng on 08/04/2019 - 23:18
      +1

      Thanks

    • Amaris on 08/04/2019 - 23:46
      +3

      He could get bikies!

      • zonra on 09/04/2019 - 00:49
        +7

        And so can OP ;)

        • Bargain80 on 10/04/2019 - 09:11

          grab popcorn

        • Bargain80 on 10/04/2019 - 09:12

          but seriously though, he probably knows your contact detail (through the transfer document) so he can harass you.

      • heal on 09/04/2019 - 21:55

        Give him the scotch finger!

      • Bikies on 11/04/2019 - 13:01

        PM for rates and payment options

    • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2019 - 07:12

      Yeah and at 125,000kms? Seems to early for major failure

      • Cliche Guevara on 09/04/2019 - 12:10

        The plastic top and end tanks on radiators often fail at the 100k km mark. But seller is not responsible after sale.

        • brendanm on 09/04/2019 - 14:22
          +2

          This. Plenty of issues can come up in 10 years or 125k. Buyer is SOOL. Op owes them nothing.

          • [Deactivated] on 14/04/2019 - 06:57

            @brendanm: Yeah true, I wasn't accusono op, I was more thinking the buyer was lying because 125,000 KMs seems a bit to early for a major fault like that.

            Guess my Camry living forever makes 125,000kms seem like nothing lol

    • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2019 - 13:52

      I think, for argument's sake, if you tampered with the seatbelts or did a dodgy repair to the airbag you'd be in trouble criminally in the case of a death. Basic duty of care still applies. The Takata recall applies well outside the warranty period.

    • sghetti on 09/04/2019 - 17:13
      +6

      Up to the buyer to inspect the car, or get a professional inspection (RAA etc.) to run over the car.

      This guys most likely got a mate mechanic to write up a report to scare OP into coughing up for the fix.

  • whooah1979 on 09/04/2019 - 06:12
    +5

    overheated due to some sort of dodgy fix

    A mechanical check before the sale should've picked this up.

  • EightImmortals on 09/04/2019 - 06:29
    +4

    As everyone else is saying, just block/ignore them. They are trying it on and will only cause you further stress if you continue to engage with them. They bought the car in the condition that it was, if they didn't get a mechanical inspection at the time then that's their problem.

    Forget about it and move on.

  • MountFranklin on 09/04/2019 - 07:29
    +5

    This is QLD rules

    When you buy a vehicle privately:

    • you are not entitled to a cooling-off period
    • you will not get a statutory warranty
    • the seller does not have to give you a Personal Property Securities Register certificate or a clear title guarantee
    • you will not be able to make a claim for compensation if anything goes wrong and you lose money.

    • tanksinatra on 09/04/2019 - 07:59
      +2

      • the seller does not have to give you a Personal Property Securities Register certificate or a clear title guarantee

      Hang on. A private seller doesn't have to give you a PPSR certificate but if they sell you something that they don't actually own that's still fraud and there are means to seek redress.

      • MountFranklin on 09/04/2019 - 08:31
        +4

        Yes it is illegal for a seller to sell something that they do not own but the onus is on the buyer to do the PPSR check which is $2-$3

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/04/2019 - 08:42
        +12

        Liability falls on the purchaser to do their due diligence.

        You purchase something registered on the PPSR then the finance company still has the right to come take the car away.

        Near impossible to prove fraud. Seller will just say they verbally told you. Buyer has to admit they never conducted a PPSR search (as they should have). Matter will never progress anywhere.

  • JimmyF on 09/04/2019 - 07:33
    +4

    I sold a 10yr 125000 km car privately.

    NO consumer guarantees on private sale, advise them to check their rights and then ignore them.

  • KingJuf on 09/04/2019 - 07:57
    +2

    In terms of the dodgy fix I believe they may be referring to someone adding 'Stop Leak' or similar to the coolant system. This would show adhesive residue in the coolant and also potentially cause issues such as blockages which can lead to over heating.

    Anyhow as everyone has advised you have no liability to compensate nor can they prove with 100% certainty that you have applied that fix.

  • Hirolol on 09/04/2019 - 07:58
    +5

    Be hard for him to prove anything.
    I wouldn’t worry about it, he’s probably just done the touch ups himself and now trying to scam money back.

  • andyhui01 on 09/04/2019 - 09:27

    Just tell him if it is a Roadworthy Issue, he can take it up with the mechanic who did the Roadworthy, or Vicroads. But if the radiator wasn't leaking at the time of inspection, it would have passed. There is no requirement to pressure test the cooling system for a RWC.

    As a private seller, even if you knew about the issue and chose not a disclose it. You still can't be liable.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/04/2019 - 10:52

      even if you knew about the issue and chose not a disclose it. You still can't be liable.

      Just to clarify that, seller cannot make a misrepresentation or they can be found liable. Can't lie.

      If a buyer looks at your car and asks "Does the radiator have any issues?" and you know the radiator has issues then:

      1. Telling seller the radiator is "fine", or "don't know" is not OK.
      2. Telling the seller to inspect it themselves/get a friend or mechanic to look at it/decline to answer, is OK.
      • Blue Cat on 09/04/2019 - 13:43

        Telling seller the radiator is "fine", or "don't know" is not OK.

        Is this for real? Specifically NSW?
        What if I honestly don't know a thing about cars and if something goes wrong I go straight to the mechanic to fix it?

        • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2019 - 18:07
          +2

          He was responding to 'even if you KNEW about the issue and chose not to disclose it'. So in your case, you wouldn't have known there was any issue if the car wasn't obviously overheating, so saying 'I don't know but it's been running fine and not overheating' is perfectly honest. You just can't lie.

      • andyhui01 on 09/04/2019 - 14:44
        +1

        Agreed. What I meant was while you can't write "Radiator in perfect condition" on the Ad. You don't have to say anything about the condition of the car in the Ad. If the buyer does not ask about it, you don't have to disclose it.

  • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2019 - 10:50
    +2

    Any conflict that arises between a (genuine) buyer and seller is always the fault of the seller. Ebay figured this out years ago which is why they side by default with the buyer and because of that they have become a very successful company.

    Go back to the buyer and admit it must be you in the wrong. Ask them exactly where you went wrong and how you can remedy that mistake to their satisfaction.

    As a good seller you're only happy when the buyer is happy! :)

    • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2019 - 11:22
      +12

      My sarcasm meter just broke.

    • shortblack9 on 09/04/2019 - 11:23
      +1

      /s

  • gyrex on 09/04/2019 - 11:58
    -8

    To those pushing caveat emptor, whilst a private buyer should employ this as a matter of common sense, you are required by law to disclose any known issues about a car you're selling otherwise you could be deemed to have acted deceptively during any legal process. There have been cases where the seller has been responsible to fix or compensate the buyer for known issues to a vehicle post sale. More info here: https://www.lawanswers.com.au/threads/car-sold-privately-buy…

    • MechEng on 09/04/2019 - 13:01
      +2

      As I mentioned, owned the car for long time and absolutely never had any issue. Always maintained on time and recorded in the log book.
      Offered to take the car to a mechanic of choice (more than once) so sure the car is good, but buyer declined
      The only issue the car has at the time of sale was batteries on the remote in one of the keys was flat but disclosed that.

      • tomsco on 09/04/2019 - 13:35
        +8

        Offered to take the car to a mechanic of choice (more than once) so sure the car is good, but buyer declined

        In that case, the buyer is an absolute clown.

      • MessyG on 09/04/2019 - 19:54

        Exactly this - you have provided a log book and thus there is no evidence that any defect was known about it. Onus would be on the buyer to prove that the seller knew there was a defect, that would be exceptionally hard to prove.

    • djkelly69 on 09/04/2019 - 13:28
      +2

      you are required by law to disclose any known issues about a car you're selling otherwise you could be deemed to have acted deceptively during any legal process.

      The gist of that thread is that if you commit fraud (eg. knowingly concealing an issue) when selling a car, the buyer may be able to make a claim against you. That is not the same as being required to disclose any known issues with a car.

      There are similar cases for the sale of houses, and the key is 'active concealment' in order to have a claim. Even then, it would need to be fairly major, and proving anything is always going to be difficult.

      Taking the OP at their word, they were not even aware of any issues with the car, let alone concealing them, so they have done nothing wrong.

  • backpaqer on 09/04/2019 - 12:27

    Did you sell it with a warranty? If they wanted a warranty that's where dealers add value. Private sale is caveat emptor all the way, that's why you get any car inspected before you buy it unless you want to take a gamble.

    • ol mate on 09/04/2019 - 20:45
      +1

      Is there even a statutory warranty at 10 years/125k km?

      • Mitch889 on 10/04/2019 - 16:11
        +3

        Private sale? None.

        Dealer at 10yrs+? No.

        Dealer at 125k and less than 10 years? 3mths/5000km.

  • happirt on 09/04/2019 - 13:17
    +2

    not worth stressing over

  • 91rs on 09/04/2019 - 13:30
    +5

    Tell him to prove he didn't do it in the last two months?
    Its the same kind of argument, just walk away and don't entertain anything they have to say.

  • crazyj on 09/04/2019 - 13:32
    +8

    I had a buyer try this on me with a Mini Cooper - the 60's one.

    He thrashed it to hell, so much so that sparks started running out of the exhaust pipe, and then blamed me 3 months later when the engine seized up.

    (I actually saw this, as the guy was a local in my area, so I kept seeing the car around my local streets occasionally)

    I stated this, hung up and never heard anything more about it.

    I always make up a receipt with the statement 'sold with all faults, if any' in the text. They sign it. I sign it. Done!

    [edit] and no, I wasn't aware of any faults.

    • Briefcase Mong on 09/04/2019 - 14:50

      Yea definitely agree highly doubt they would take legal action as it would incur legal costs on top of the repair

    • Zondor on 09/04/2019 - 15:13

      I mean technically they can take him to court but they won't win.

      Buyer beware.

      • Donaldhump on 09/04/2019 - 16:44
        +1

        christ get negged for advice.

        which is all true

        • pegaxs on 11/04/2019 - 15:02

          Don't worry, the neggers did this to my comment as well. Stated facts with references to ACL and ACCC, etc. All because I said "deal with it, don't just ignore it".

          Sheep don't like being told…

    • YellowDieselGolf on 09/04/2019 - 19:33
      +2

      It’s a sculpture of limitations.

  • Levathian on 09/04/2019 - 14:53
    +2

    Aren't used cars, that aren't sold through a dealer, "as is" and subject to buyer beware upon purchase?

  • lovepub on 09/04/2019 - 15:13
    +2

    I would start keeping record of your conversation in terms of SMS. Email.

    Also, what's the ODO reading when you sold it?
    I am sure in 2 months he would have driven more than 1000 km. If the ODO has more than 1000km in it….or even 500, they would have noticed the radiator problem.

    They r trying their luck

    But as previous post, they knwk your address and you want NO trouble. I would not encourage then to persur or totally ignore them.

    Ask them to check with other third parties on their rights on this issue.

    Since everyone here says you have no chance of being liable….just chill and tag along and see what happens.

    Good luck with the outcome .
    You dont want some stranger showing up at your doorstep and threatening you or ur family.

    Out of curiosity…..how much was the car sold for??
    And what is the cost for damage repair he is quoting ??

    • MechEng on 09/04/2019 - 16:40

      Indeed they put over 1000km on the car as per my RWC and Odo from mechanics report.
      The car was sold for 9,000 and the repairs would cost 4000ish.

  • Cluster on 09/04/2019 - 15:27
    +4

    Private sale on an old car = no warranty. 2 months for a problem to crop up? It's not like it failed 2 days later.

    The buyer is trying their luck and hoping you're soft and will pay for the repair. Just ghost the buyer. Don't ask them to prove their case or anything like that. The more you engage them the higher the chance of you saying something they'll try to use against you.

    No further contact unless they send a letter from a lawyer (which they won't).

  • Moral hazard on 09/04/2019 - 15:51
    +1

    I'm going to guess you sold a Subaru, I've owned several and they tend to blow headgaskets around 10yr or 125000 km due to the horizontal boxer design.

    Buyer should have researched before buying used.

    • MechEng on 09/04/2019 - 16:43

      No Subaru. Please read this post " boring reliable"… Sound familiar?

      • No ONE on 09/04/2019 - 17:31
        +5

        Corolla.

        • tryagain on 11/04/2019 - 10:48

          Or Camry

      • ltwo on 11/04/2019 - 20:51
        +1

        Range Rover

    • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2019 - 13:24

      True this. My Subaru Liberty blew its head gasket at 10 years. And a friends Subaru Impreza did the same at 10 years.

      Expensive to fix too. The unusual layout of boxer engines meant they needed to remove half the engine to get the heads off. Cost nearly a grand although they did replace the belts at the same time (might as well when the engine is pulled apart).

      Ops problem sounds different though. More like a radiator problem led to a seized engine. But the buyer must have noticed the overheated engine and kept driving - there's a temp gauge on every car I've ever owned - so the fault is on the buyer regardless.

      • Agret on 11/04/2019 - 22:28

        $500 to fix blown head gasket sounds on the cheap side to me, lot of labor in that. I wouldn't complain about that being expensive :D

  • mini2 on 09/04/2019 - 16:51
    +2

    Cease all communication with the guy?

    Buyer's beware and tell the guy to EAD?

  • eciuj on 09/04/2019 - 17:04

    Did the buyer get a pre-purchase inspection done? If so, they need to contact the inspector. If they didn't get an inspection then they should have organised one.

    Bottom line, onus is on the buyer to inspect the car and determine any faults. Private sales = caveat emptor

    • MechEng on 09/04/2019 - 17:33

      When I buy I always do that. I offered to take the car to a mechanic of their choice more than once. They declined.

      • gromit on 09/04/2019 - 19:28
        +1

        Then the buyer is both SOOL and a fool to boot. Anyone that buys without an inspection has no right to whine afterwards, their chance to say something isn't right with the vehicle is prior to purchase.

  • MountFranklin on 09/04/2019 - 17:06
    +6

    I am that buyer. I am happy to settle for half the repair cost ($2000) and I'll fork out the other half.
    Western union transfer TIA.

    • ProlapsedHeinous on 09/04/2019 - 17:33
      +7

      water you up to

    • MechEng on 09/04/2019 - 17:34
      +11

      No worries send bank account details and your mother's maiden name as proof.

      • ashanrath on 09/04/2019 - 18:47
        +3

        I'll be happy to do so I've one received your $99 administration fee. Standard payment options apply: PayPal, first born child, and/or eneloops.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2019 - 16:20

          I’ll act as an escrow. Both transfer $99 into my account to make sure there is no funny business. Upon completion of transaction, all fees will be released.

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