Getting Value out of Sick Leave When Quitting Job

random12 on 24/03/2019 - 00:16
Last edited 24/03/2019 - 10:04

I have been working at the same company for the last 3 years.

I have barely taken any sick leave, or even much annual leave. I have more sick leave than actual leave!

I am really getting sick of the low wage growth. Plus a dead end job with not much development. Also, the company has significant downside for the foreseeable future.

This is my first job, and I think I have clearly failed to manage my sick leave balance optimally. That is, I should have been taking it as it accured, regardless of whether I was actually sick.

I have not done much research, but I think sick leave is not paid out on resignation. If this is the case, then that is a significant loss to workers ( now employers have a huge incentive to treat loyal workers like shit with no wage growth - so they leave and it extinguishes their liability).

I guess I can claim all the interview appointments as sick days, but it will look at bit dodgy for the line manager, and I will still lose significant value

Education & Work

closed Comments

        • random12 on 24/03/2019 - 16:14
          -4

          "It means people will start coming to work sick as they don't want to sacrifice their payout or don't want to eat into their holiday time. "

          Nonsense.

          No one that is truly sick ( I.e. that bad they cannot do anything productively ) will continue coming to work.

          Really, if your headache is that bad, are you going to come into work anyway? Let's say you have a broken leg ( that was broken on the way to work ). Are you really going to crawl all the way to work so you can claim an extra days pay when you resign however many days into the future?

          • gromit on 24/03/2019 - 16:35
            +1

            @random12: When the money is coming out of YOUR pocket you are damn right they will come into work sick. I see it all the time with contractors. Even some fulltime staff already do this with the Flu/cold or other bugs as they already abuse sick leave as holidays and don't have spare for when they are really sick.

            • plasmoske on 24/03/2019 - 19:40
              +1

              @gromit: My mate from work often took sickies - especially when he wasn't even sick. Usually it was on a Monday or Friday.

              Then 2 years ago… his old man passed away. And his son had to do a leg surgery. And his brother had a heart attack.

              He is now on borderline zero sick leave and still comes to work even if he looks like shit.

              Seriously people should not take a sickie if they don't need to. Unexpected things can happen in life.

              • random12 on 24/03/2019 - 19:52

                @plasmoske: 'borderline zero sick leave' - that's a good thing. He is getting as much as possible.

                He should have saved money when he was not sick.

                • WhyAmICommenting on 24/03/2019 - 21:59
                  +1

                  @random12: Wot? Saved money? That's already been explained - no one's "saving" extra money. It's just whether you wag work and still get paid for it.

              • leiiv on 24/03/2019 - 23:39

                @plasmoske: That is just greed. He already took the sickies and got paid for those days. He should just take the annual or unpaid leave in that case.

  • locknuts on 24/03/2019 - 13:16

    Sick leave is just insurance. Hopefully you don't need it and if you don't use it, you lose it.

    Also, this is part of the reason I will never hire permanent staff.

    • random12 on 24/03/2019 - 13:23

      You don't realise that it actually benefits you to hire permanent?

      Because if you hire casual, you build in the cost to their hourly rate.

      EVERY casual employee gets benefit from sick leave. Not the same with full time employees.

      As an employer of full time people (assuming you did), you benefit because I assume many people leave the company with sick leave balances, and in many cases very large balances.

      You would probably be happy that they leave. You save more in reduced leave liability than you would pay as their final fortnightly paycheck.

    • Ughhh on 24/03/2019 - 14:28

      Casuals get paid a bit more to make up for lack of sick leave and annual leave. In a way, its like prepaying, as in you are already paying it, where as Perms dont get paid unless they take it.
      If you have good judgement in people and hire decent staff and treat staff decently, the chance of fakers should be on the low end.

      • locknuts on 24/03/2019 - 16:21

        I'd rather pay extra knowing that they're going to do everything in their power to come in for the day.

        • Ughhh on 24/03/2019 - 16:52

          Thats the exact pro of being a casual, you can come in or quit whenever you want. None of that 2 weeks notice thing.

          • locknuts on 24/03/2019 - 17:56

            @Ughhh: Notice can't be enforced. It seriously works out better like you say though for both parties in most cases. I understand getting a loan can be tough without regular work, but the small business owner is often in the same position.

        • random12 on 24/03/2019 - 20:55

          So locknuts, your problem is not with people getting the monetary benefit, it is the possible inconvenience of people taking it unnecessarily?

          • locknuts on 24/03/2019 - 22:03

            @random12: Yes, exactly. I think it's wrong on principle. Some employees (and employers) are just jerks who will take as much as they can get. It's like some sort of sick game or something.

            • random12 on 24/03/2019 - 22:04

              @locknuts: So you agree that unused sick leave should be paid out when a person quits?

              • MetalPhreak on 25/03/2019 - 01:31
                +1

                @random12: Locknuts may be your golden ticket to that one person that agrees with you in some twisted way clearly validating your thoughts (the only reason you are here) and definitely counteracting every other comment here.

              • locknuts on 25/03/2019 - 09:58

                @random12: That could work. But if it was put in place, it would discourage employers from hiring permanent staff. Long Service Leave and Annual Leave can be costly enough to fork out in one big hit.

        • greatlamp on 25/03/2019 - 10:02

          I agree it is a much better system. With full time employees you reward the lazy and dishonest who are always sick the day before a public holiday.

          Aren't there laws against keeping someone casual for more than 6 months with the same shifts?

          • locknuts on 25/03/2019 - 10:04

            @greatlamp: I know that rule has been implemented in many EBAs so it is law now in most industries.

  • Mr Bond 007 on 24/03/2019 - 13:33

    Actually a couple of my friends have agreements where they get paid their sick leave out at the end of each year (or, it accrues to be paid out when they leave the role - can't remember which). I barely take sick days, so that would be great for me - I assume they do that to minimise absenteeism (i.e. people have less incentive to "fall sick" if they know they'll be paid out in the end)

    Though OP you should know that if your employer doesn't offer that, there's no point complaining. Yes, you'd receive much more utility per dollar if you stayed home "sick" than heading to work, but after the fact, the loss in utility from having gone to work is sunk and you can't do anything, except consider a lesson learnt for your next job when you know to take more sick days (though according to Murphy's Law, if you do that, you're probably actually going to get sick and then run out of sick leave)

    Bear in the mind the fringe benefits you get when you don't call in sick - all my managers have been excellent referees because they perceive me as having a great work ethic. That's worth more to me than staying home for a day or two to "maximise value" from sick leave

  • LoveMySmile on 24/03/2019 - 13:48
    +1

    Honestly, i think this tshow is more entertaining to watch than the OP.

  • lltravel on 24/03/2019 - 14:02

    /r/choosingbeggars

    You have a job yet you continue to hate on it

    Its people like you which make business owners life a nightmare

    If you dont like the job, quit and stop milking it

    Sick leave means you're sick. Its a benefit and completely different to annual leave.

    It's clear you have no idea how a business works and how contracts are made. You have a lot to learn.

    • random12 on 24/03/2019 - 14:59
      -8

      I do have an idea how business works.

      Why shouldn't I 'milk it'. It would provide an incentive for corporates to do the right thing.

      We keep hearing that unemployment rate is low. Pay is not rising. We keep getting fed bullshit from 'Business Council of Australia' that we cannot force higher pay, because jobs may be lost. Only this week, there was an article in the Australia Financial Review calling for higher pay.

      Corporates continue to ignore their employees, while executive bonuses have exploded. So screw this 'chossingbeggars' nonsense.

      We will see who is begging.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/03/2019 - 19:55
        +1

        We will see who is begging.

        You? For sick leave payout?

        (And with that attitude, warped perspective, and "the corporates owe me" mentality, a job?)

      • Piranha2004 on 25/03/2019 - 05:47

        Instead of having a sook why don't you leave and become a contractor then? You set your own terms. Life does not revolve around you.

  • Wiser on 24/03/2019 - 15:00
    +1

    If you are a casual you will be paid 25% loading to cover annual leave, personal leave(not called sick leave any more) public holidays etc.So personal leave is an entitlement.Every one can talk about moral values and unethical behavior.

    Jut imagine you have few weeks of accured personal leave and you or your partner fell sick and you need to take more than your accured leave.I am sure no employer will offer you extra leave(paid) since you barely used your sick leave last few years.
    When you change the jobs you lose all your accured personal leave and long service leave.
    There should be a way for you to bank these entitlements for a rainy day.
    Most of the people work in non unionsed sites will always lose their entitlements.
    Best way is all paid loading(to cover all leave entitlements) and it is up to the individual to take leave wnen required(within legal limits and in cosultation with the employer) and not paid when you are on leave

    • Milk tea on 24/03/2019 - 15:51
      +1

      "When you change the jobs you lose all your accured personal leave and long service leave.
      There should be a way for you to bank these entitlements for a rainy day."

      what the? So a new business should just take the hit because you've accrued leave in a previous job? This isn't superannuation. If everyone uses your logic, then we might as well be able to use credits or being a good customer in a previous company when we change to a new one regarding bills or a new service provider.

      • Wiser on 24/03/2019 - 16:13

        I never said the new employer to take a hit.
        Your entitlements are fasctored into your pay packet.few years back there was a discussion about banking long service leave entitlements.
        As I suggested pay the entitements with thee pay and nothing left behind.
        Also employers need not worry about the business cost of acvured entitements.
        Also you are comparing super.
        When is new employer taking commitments for previous period?
        And no employer need to commit for your left over entitlements.

        These suggestions are for some of lowest paid workers those who can't afford income protecion insurance.

        • random12 on 24/03/2019 - 16:22
          -2

          All accured benefits should be paid on resignation, and that should include sick leave and partial long service leave.

          One thing to note. Executives get huge 'termination payments' when they leave. In many cases it is 6 months or more of pay. They never disclose how they come to this, but I assume it is paying out sick leave and similar.

          • gromit on 24/03/2019 - 17:03

            @random12: No they get those golden parachutes as they negotiated them into their contracts for signing on. This isn't some hidden mystery or conspiracy. Go take your argument to the government then, they wrote the laws on how sick leave works, not the corporations or executives.

  • chumlee on 24/03/2019 - 15:04
    +6

    Don't bother asking these kind of questions here. The self righteous are always out in force.

    When there's clearly a price error on a retailers website they jump all over it and forget their ethics when it suits them

    • [Deactivated] on 24/03/2019 - 19:58
      +1

      A business making a mistake and potentially wearing the cost is the same as fraud to obtain financial gain?

      Is this a go big or go home kind of thing?

  • minklet on 24/03/2019 - 15:05
    +4

    Hilariously sanctimonious replies in here. OP ignore all the shrieking moralists and remember that your sick benefit is priced into your wages. Take some sick days and look after yourself

  • djam71 on 24/03/2019 - 15:28
    +5

    What an arrogant, ungrateful, self entitled view you have.

    You are literally looking to commit fraud and turn to a legit online forum to get people to help you.

    Sick leave is a benefit for those who need it, and there's plenty of unfortunate sick people who relied on it. E.g. My father in law, a cancer sufferer.

    Btw, I'm also a lowly underpayed employee with tonnes of unused sick leave… maybe I just have too much self respect to even consider what your wanting to do.

    • X35rgfF45 on 24/03/2019 - 18:52
      +1

      Self respect?

      Your company doesn't give a shit about you except how much money you can make them, treat them the same way, take whats yours, its your legal entitlement and it won't make you any less of a person.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/03/2019 - 20:00
        +1

        You know the company djam71 works for?

        Do you know this person, djam?

        • djam71 on 24/03/2019 - 20:55
          +2

          I dont know @UnknownCamper from a bar of soap. Kinda glad I dont.

          But it looks like @random12 works for the CBA

          To be honest, I hope he gets over it and leaves with some integrity. But if he wants to scam his employer to use up his sick leave, then I hope he gets caught, he deserves it.

          • [Deactivated] on 24/03/2019 - 21:00
            +1

            @djam71: Thanks. Just wanted to know what the mentality is with these people where they claim all employers must be unethical. I suspect it is a projection.

  • Milk tea on 24/03/2019 - 15:45
    +2

    I think you just want everyone to say, yeah take all of your sick leave before resigning as you deserve it and make up an elaborate story in order for the doctor to write a med cert for you. Sounds a bit ridiculous lol

  • wau2 on 24/03/2019 - 16:27
    +1

    If you want to take it,then take it. Just do it what you want and take responsibility of whatever may result (bad reference etc ). If you get away with it, good on you. Do what you want and be a responsible adult.

  • dbui8743 on 24/03/2019 - 16:41
    +6

    The only reason you posted this is because you want others' support to reinforce your idea of this being your entitlement.

    You know it yourself it is lies. At the end of the day, you do whatever you want, people only point out this is lies, not stopping you from doing this.

  • berger on 24/03/2019 - 16:51
    +2

    Good luck changing jobs and asking for a reference. “Great employee, but last couple months lots of unexplained sickness, plus I saw him at the beach”

    I got An update on my sick leave the other day. It’s double my holidays! I know it’s there in case I need it, I may have an operation on my wrist soon so that’s going to be 1-2 weeks. I don’t feel guilty using it because I rarely am crook.

    • random12 on 24/03/2019 - 16:54

      So you get value out of it because you know of upcoming medical stuff.

      Now, explain why you get value from it, but the person with no health problems should not get value?

      • berger on 24/03/2019 - 18:45
        +1

        Because I’m a bloody good employee, 100% honest and loyal. I work hard and make an honest income.

        If I didn’t have this possible op come up, I wouldn’t care either way. It’s there in case I need it.

        Now, explain if you would bother with car insurance? Your logic makes me think that you would risk driving uninsured because money spent on insurance and no claim wouldn’t be fair? Would you purposely go smash a car to get your value out of it?

  • burningrage on 24/03/2019 - 17:01
    +8

    This post is wrong on all fronts, full of jealousy, immense sense of entitlement, and outright fraudulent in every intent.

    OP appears to be lack of integrity so reasoning would be futile.

    As a word of warning. If OP is caught, expect industrial blacklist which affects your future employment. In my industry, people talk to each other so reputation is foremost.

    This post should be closed.

    • WhyAmICommenting on 24/03/2019 - 22:05
      +1

      Yes ave op should rename themself to "burningbridges"

  • mrvaluepack on 24/03/2019 - 17:15
    +1

    Just do it but make sure you lock in a new job first before you start doing this shit.

  • 91rs on 24/03/2019 - 17:28
    +1

    Just say you've got kids and they've been sick or have school things or any other number of BS excuses that the parents with kids where I work use to not show up a couple days a week every week.
    No one ever dares to question people with kids in the workplace for fear of the backlash.
    Use those days up and then quit.

  • s313 on 24/03/2019 - 17:36

    when i left my job…i had 252 hours of sick pay …never got any money for that

  • Black Brown Blue on 24/03/2019 - 17:44

    I work with this person and she uses all 10 sick leaves every year. I use none or 1 when I am genuinely sick. It sucks. I understand how you feel and hope things get better for you and you find a better job. Hang in there. It’s up to you at the end of day, if you want to take it then that’s your choice. I will not encourage this, but do think about references as well.

  • TheOtherLeft on 24/03/2019 - 18:14
    +1

    Everyone needs a mental health day. At one stage I was taking one a month.i felt completely justified since management gave me no support for lack of staff

    • Nebargains on 24/03/2019 - 19:39

      Isn't that what annual leave is for? You know, to take a day off?

      I worked with someone who would openly tell me they took a day off for their mental health, just needed a break from work, which is exactly what Annual Leave is for.

      • WhyAmICommenting on 24/03/2019 - 22:07

        Mental health, stress, sickness. It's all getting a bit grey these days.

      • neyo on 25/03/2019 - 08:16

        No, that is what personal/sick leave is for

  • ribze1 on 24/03/2019 - 19:00
    +2

    I know you're planning on leaving this company but i'll put it to you this way.

    I've been with my employer for 5 years and wouldn't have taken more than 3-5 sick days a year as they are always legitimate.
    In September i had a skiing accident which resulted in a ruptured ACL and broke my leg. I took nearly a month off work via sick leave (the initial injury and then post surgery) and worked from home for 6 weeks during this time as well. I still have close to 15 days up the sleeve.

    This is how sick leave works. The fact that i am also a good and trusted employee allowed to to also work from home instead of spending an hour walking on crutches and dealing with lovely empty trains we have in Sydney.

    • random12 on 25/03/2019 - 10:27

      You took 3-5 sick days a year?

      That's actually quite high, given the allowance is 10 days per year.

      I have only taken 1 per year.

      If anything, all I want is value for the equivalent of 5 days per year.

      I know I definitely won't be able to get all the time, but there is nothing wrong with a few days carefully placed, plus some interview days.

  • Zondor on 24/03/2019 - 19:10
    +1

    Hasn't sick leave been re-branded to be "Personal Leave".

    • jaimex2 on 24/03/2019 - 19:42

      yup, this thread is pointless.

  • dailynotsomail on 24/03/2019 - 19:17
    +1

    sounds like the job you are quitting is perfect for you, dead end for a deadbeat!

  • jaimex2 on 24/03/2019 - 19:42

    I thought sick leave doesn't exist anymore, its all personal leave?

  • bryans on 24/03/2019 - 20:09
    +3

    So OP is/was working at CBA.
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/433969

    Community expects high level of integrity from the Banks apparently you don't fit the bill.

    • djam71 on 24/03/2019 - 20:51
      +1

      Good find!

      So hes effectively wanting to commit fraud to a bank….. yeah smart move.

      • WhyAmICommenting on 24/03/2019 - 22:08

        Did you hear about that royal commission into banking? OP would have got a lot more love if they led with this info…

  • geosta on 24/03/2019 - 20:25

    Here's a suggestion: go and start your own business. Then you can choose the terms of your employment and insist that you pay out accrued sick leave when you quit.

    Best of luck!

  • Cul8r on 24/03/2019 - 20:34
    +4

    I have never burnt a bridge, this has been incredibly valuable to me over time. I also have taken less sick leave in ten years than what you are trying to “maximise” right now.

    You’re not entitled to any of it unless you are sick… taking it when you’re not sick is fraudulent.

    When you grow up you’ll quickly realise if you want to get ahead you’ll be expected to put in extra hours, prepare yourself now by detaching your entitled attitude from the real world. You will also identify that life can feel unfair, you need to be happy in yourself and stop whining about what you are not getting - these traits will only do you harm over time.

    Your post concerns me on many fronts, the biggest being this kind of attitude it not unique to you these days.

    • Baa on 24/03/2019 - 22:02

      My thoughts exactly. I have moved between 2 companies a number of times and relationships I maintained have left me in good stead, regardless of how the situation was while employed by them.

      I work specially in the payroll hr industry and have thoughts on the subject, but looks like it has been covered above.

  • lainey13 on 24/03/2019 - 20:47

    You don't have to be personally sick, someone you take care of can also be sick for you to take it.

  • Skramit on 24/03/2019 - 21:44
    +1

    It’s interesting the OP is copping a lot of flack for his entitled attitude, and rightly so. But to be fair, his attitude of feeling entitled to sick days when not sick probably represents about half of Aussie workers.

    There’s a reason the doctors certificate is required by many companies for sick leave, because it helps to weed out the fakers to an extent. Although doctors these days are more easily fooled or just sympathetic to the lie anyway.

    I just hope one day, OP is a manager or a business owner and has staff pulling bullshit sickies on him that cost him money or cause him headaches.

    So immature and short sighted. But as I said, he’s certainly not alone in his poor attitude to the workplace.

  • magikz on 24/03/2019 - 21:50

    You're not a good person.

  • bmerigan on 24/03/2019 - 22:08

    Sick leave is like insurance. You never know if tomorrow you might be in a car accident and break your neck, requiring 3 months off work.

    It's extemely dodgy to 'use it up'. Just makes you an unreliable employee.

  • happirt on 24/03/2019 - 22:46

    i dont think you're going to do well long term in the rat race with this attitude
    it'll catch up to you someway…

    it'll be wiser to focus on your performance and results. that will take you further.

  • Levathian on 25/03/2019 - 00:09

    I used to think this way (I never abused it tho) until I actually got sick and needed surgery. Then I was glad I had it.

    Still have 3 weeks up my sleeve in case I need any more surgeries.

  • neyo on 25/03/2019 - 00:15
    -1

    Everyone getting up on their high horse because they don't have the guts to chuck sickies themselves. Quick to point out it is fraud, but at the same time probably have the 7/11 and fake gps app - cheering on a weekly saving of $5-20 when they could be getting 10 days pay for 'no' work.

    Easy to cheat the system if you're doing it behind a device. But if it means potentially confronting your employer, we are all saints.

  • [Deactivated] on 25/03/2019 - 00:35

    Your question disgusts me.

    Move to USA, you will work more for no sick leave.

    P.S. If I was your manager/colleague and was called for a reference, I would make sure you'll get a 'decent' one.

  • hikaru78 on 25/03/2019 - 00:40

    Sick leave doesnt automatically accumulate
    Check your contract.
    If you plan on claiming stress leave for a significant period. It could become a workcover issue and they are entitled to get their own docs.

    It may be grounds for dismissal if its found that you made it up. Also be aware anything you do on your work pc is the employers property so i wouldn't be applying for jobs from your work pc

  • Some Human on 25/03/2019 - 06:54

    Oh yes, let’s all take the moral high ground and pretend we’ve never taken an unwarranted sicky before.
    This is Australia, people.
    It’s what we do.

    • locknuts on 25/03/2019 - 09:59

      The lack of integrity among people here is pretty sad though.

  • syousef on 25/03/2019 - 08:20
    -1

    Where the **** are the moderators? OP is asking for advice on committing a crime. Is this what you want associated with the board? Are you asleep at the wheel??

  • TerryJustTerry on 25/03/2019 - 09:00

    No, I don't want bullshit separate categories of leave with conditions.

    ?I want it all to be the same type of leave.

    I don't care if it is less than the sum of the current total, to make it the same in a statistical sense, but I want to get value for all of it ( and I don't know why others don't want it this way either).

    I feel reply OP made sums up his thoughts simply, he believes that sick leave and annual leave should be the same thing so that he can go on a holiday to the beach while getting paid for it out of his sick leave.

  • lltravel on 25/03/2019 - 09:57

    OP is delusional and at a point where good advice won't help him.

  • Moderatorscrimshaw on 25/03/2019 - 10:27

    Thread closed. OP should have an answer by now.

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