[AMA] I Am a Car Salesman, Ask Me Anything!

spackbace on 21/03/2019 - 15:12
Last edited 21/03/2019 - 20:06

To celebrate my 22,000th comment which will happen on this post, I figured it's about time I do something like this, especially after trying to dispel the hybrid myths on this post

Currently working Toyota new cars, have worked for Holden & Suzuki previously, as well as used car sales.

Former top 10 deal poster, current top 10 commenter and competition poster (Stats here)

Aaaaand go!

(FWIW I won't neg vote anyone on here, I know the discussion can get passionate at times but that does nothing to further the conversation. I use my words not my neg votes!)

Introduce Yourself

closed Comments

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 11:27

      Customer stalled in the middle of an intersection. Luckily traffic was far enough away to slow down.
      Driving school instructors who use push-pull to turn, and turn very very slowly as a result.
      People who decide to 'check the brakes' without warning. Like cmon, tell me you're gonna do it!

      Are there any demographics scare you when you hop in for the test drive?

      Not normally, the 1% who are shitty drivers can be anyone lol

  • gezza90 on 23/03/2019 - 10:55

    You responded to one of my comments in another thread but wanted to know from your perspective about manual and automatic transmission. I have read on reddit forums that people walk into a dealership, they are convinced in purchasing an automatic transmission. The car salesman rep really tries to sell it to them. For e.g. someone was after a BMW M2 and the person insisted on test driving and potentially buying a manual. The salesman tried his best to talk him out of it by saying you need to wait a few weeks for them to deliver it from somewhere else just to test drive it. (are you sure you want manual? The auto is very popular, quicker shifts, better fuel economy etc…). Even during the paperwork, the salesman rep was asking, Are you still sure you want a manual?
    It seems like the salesman reps are reluctant to sell a manual. And because of this, if more people buy automatic, it sets the demand and manufacturers cut off the manual.
    Can you share your thoughts on people who insisted on manual and how you respond to such situations?

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 11:33
      +1

      A whole range of our cars don't come in manual, or if they do it's in base level trim only.

      Personally, I'd drive a manual small car (Swift size), or low-ish powered sports car (86/BRZ).

      Can't buy a manual LC200. Manual Prado is base trim only. Only cars where manual is preferred are Hilux (for more towing), and LC70 (only comes in manual).

      We don't convince people to buy something else, we find out what they really want and go from there. Do you really want a manual Prado, when you're stuck in base trim, or would you like an auto and to go for something nicer? Where do your priorities lie?

      I know you're a big fan of manual, and it has it's place, but let's be honest it's dying out. Sports cars are going automatic more and more, because they shift faster. Can't do 0-100 in under 4 seconds with a clutch. Seen last weeks ep of the Grand Tour? The VW trounced the others due to the DSG box.

      The salesman tried his best to talk him out of it by saying you need to wait a few weeks for them to deliver it from somewhere else

      Bingo. If it's not in stock, and no one has it in stock, what can we do?! To bring in a manual for that customer to test drive, likely meant the dealership would be stuck with a manual on it's lot, and he would know he wouldn't find a customer for it. I'd be the same way if someone came here to test drive a manual Corolla or manual Prado right now. I don't have it, and we won't order one in just for you, so I will try to earn your business on an auto.

      Other option is for the customer to put an order through, subject to test drive. Which is highly unlikely they'd do.

      • gezza90 on 23/03/2019 - 12:14
        +1

        Thank you for your honest and detailed response.

  • Plug on 23/03/2019 - 11:36

    Do salesmen want to know your budget so they can point out cars that are within your range or do they want to know so as to offer you stuff on more favourable terms for them? Thinking secondhand rather than new.

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 11:43

      They want to know so they can point you to the right car. So often we get customers choosing to dodge the question, when it's really not a complicated one!

      Why would I show you a $40,000 car when you're on a budget of $20,000? But if you said your budget was $35k, then there might be a reason to sell you the benefits of a $40k car, for example

      so as to offer you stuff on more favourable terms for them?

      Not sure what 'stuff' we could offer. The car price is listed on the window, or online. It can only get cheaper than that, not more expensive, unless you want accessories

  • McBanny on 23/03/2019 - 11:39

    Thanks for AMA,

    Why new prado never goes on sale? And land cruiser. Never seen anything about discount or promotion price.

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 11:43

      LC200 - never, though you can negotiate.
      Prado - Only GXL gets put on special, not enough stock of VX or Kakadu. Negotiate instead

      • McBanny on 26/03/2019 - 18:24

        Thanks for replying.

        What's acceptable amount on these range of cars? 4K - 6k? Online data shown are all without GST I believe. Would $10k be too much to ask or it can be push for more?

        Also, if I don't need to fiance, is that a selling point? Or it's no longer relevant?

        Cheeers

  • luffyex2010 on 23/03/2019 - 12:16

    Wow 22204 comments, is this a new record?

    • payton on 23/03/2019 - 12:45
      +2

      must reach 22222 before ending AMA!

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 12:54

      Nope lol jv is unbeatable

  • Amltanoc on 23/03/2019 - 13:59

    Hello spackbace,
    Sydney based.
    Possible to get a 2018 plated Camry V6 SX with tinted windows, car mats, boot liner and in built dash camera for $38K? I know the color & leather we want is in stock.
    The car salesman we're dealing with hasn't budged with the rrp at all. The most annoying part is that he keeps ringing to see if we're still interested in the car… of course we are, just at the right price!

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 14:05
      +1

      V6? Nope can't do it. Lucky to have $1800 movement in that car

      • Amltanoc on 23/03/2019 - 14:23

        Sorry I think I mean 3.5L engine

  • domadgee on 23/03/2019 - 14:57

    I recently purchased a demo car from ford.

    They're now trying to say the cars warranty is only 2 years instead of the advertised 3.

    My question is, is this common practise for demonstrator models? Or am I being taken for a ride?

  • dlakers3peat on 23/03/2019 - 15:50
    -1

    Why do dealers screw people on the price of their trade in. I mean they don't even offer market value. Well below what it's worth. I know the obvious answer is to make money but for me it's a real turn off.

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 15:59

      Market value? What's market value for the trade?

      • dlakers3peat on 23/03/2019 - 18:13

        Yes market value of the trade.

        • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 19:16

          Retail price? What do you deem as market value? What it would sell for?

          • dlakers3peat on 24/03/2019 - 00:36

            @spackbace: Are you sure you are car salesman and not a politican. If you cannot or won't answer the question then that's fine.

            • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 00:44
              +1

              @dlakers3peat: Do you wonder why we won't trade a car for the exact same price it would sell for?

              Are you really asking that? 😂

              • dlakers3peat on 24/03/2019 - 19:01

                @spackbace: You are already making money on the new car sale and you also want to make money on the trade in. There is no value in the trade prices dealers offer.

                • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 19:46
                  +4

                  @dlakers3peat: Forgetting stamp duty, recon costs, detailing, advertising, floor plan, staff wages?

                  Who said we make money on the new car? Lol

                  Yeah what you're asking for is a ridiculous proposition for a business. Just think about it for longer than a second.

                • brad1-8tsi on 25/03/2019 - 09:44
                  +4

                  @dlakers3peat: You are trading-in so you don't have the inconvenience and cost of preparing (or selling a clunker) the vehicle for sale, advertising, being faffed about by potential purchasers, negotiating a price, ensuring payment, etc.

                  A dealer trades your vehicle in at a wholesale rate and has to finance it, take on the mechanical risk, possible warranty, holding costs, cost of admin for the sale, stamp duty, etc. They then try to sell it at "retail".

                  Do you think that those used car yards with 50-100 vehicles in them are free?

                  If a dealer offers you more than wholesale they are taking it out of the margin of the new car or maybe it's a popular car and they think they can turn it over quickly with some profit.

                  If you want a really lousy price for your car then send it to the auctions…

                  Ask yourself this: How many other business models are willing to buy your used item as part payment on the item they are selling? Of those, how many offer more than a token amount?

                  • FloatingPoint on 25/03/2019 - 12:23
                    +1

                    @brad1-8tsi: and… the government think it's OK to double dipping GST on dealer used vehicles as well (when the GST on the same vehicle was already paid when brand new).

    • GordonR on 23/03/2019 - 20:54

      If dealer offers you under “market value”, then just sell on Carsales or Gumtree and go in without the trade-in.

      If you can’t sell it for what you want, then perhaps that isn’t market value?

      (Also, dealer has to on-sell the used car, and that costs real money, and they have to offer a warranty that private seller doesn’t. So even if they were willing to break even they would HAVE to offer under market value.)

      • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 21:09

        That's what I thought, but I figured he can't possibly expect a dealer to pay the same price they'd sell it for 😂 they'd be out of business in a day!

  • myusername on 23/03/2019 - 15:54

    which one of the Dodgey Brothers are you?

  • silverrat23 on 23/03/2019 - 17:36

    Red or Blue?

  • crazycrabs on 23/03/2019 - 17:46

    What kind of workplace culture have you experienced at dealerships? Is it a highly competitive environment between you and your colleagues (including aftercare salespeople)? I have a friend who has been working at car yards for a few years in aftercare but says it can be a really toxic environment. They are really good at their job so only puts up with it for the money and deals with it best they can. Is tall poppy syndrome common that you’ve seen? Have attitudes changed throughout your career and have you noticed better cultures at dealerships that see more/less sales, or use different pay structures?

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 19:21

      That's a lot of questions!

      If course it's competitive but we have to work as a team as well.

      Aftercare should be able to fit in with the team if they're capable, but it depends how they act as well. Some of them think they're above it all or that they're a key role, when really they wouldn't exist if a salesperson didn't bring them customers.

      So really depends what attitude your friend brings as well.

      Culture starts at the top, like any workplace. Income/sales have no effect, it's management and the staff they hire. I've seen some shit old-school managers and some good ones. It's more a matter of dealerships maturing and the managers learning how to manage, and always with the fear of an HR department 😂

      • crazycrabs on 24/03/2019 - 00:05

        Thanks for answering them! I’m just curious because I’m in engineering and I’ve only ever experienced very collaborative environments.

        One sales person refused to pass on any customers until they were spoken to by a manager. Is there any reason why the car salespeople wouldn’t pass on their sales to talk to aftercare? The car salesperson has already made the sale and also benefits from any aftercare add-ons so I can only think they are a shitty team member.

        • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 00:10

          Other reason could be that the customers really didn't want to meet the aftercare person. Read through the comments on this post, you'll find that role isn't well liked lol

          It happens, people just want to skip them, and can be coz of past experiences of getting gouged, getting kept in their office for ages, all sorts. Salesperson would've run it past his boss to see if he was allowed to skip that step.

          2 sides to every story 😉

  • squidz on 23/03/2019 - 17:59

    @spackbase what is the mix of the dealer ownership?
    EG, toyota owns 50% while the rest are privately owned.

    Thank you for hosting AMA!

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 19:22

      That one I'm not sure of tbh. Pretty sure the manufacturer doesn't 'own' the dealership as such, but they own the franchise. They can pull the pin at any stage, revoke your rights to the franchise.

  • rappy68 on 23/03/2019 - 21:03

    I have a few queries
    1 - which state is normally cheapest to buy 2nd hand cars
    2 - is there really a reputable outside extended warranty option in the market
    3 - On average - what age for a 2nd hand car is best as for bang for buck eg- 3 years, 5 years old

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 21:08
      1. Not sure, wherever there are floods or hail 😂
      2. Haven't read up on all the PDS's
      3. Depends on the manufacturer warranty, how fast it depreciates etc
    • [Deactivated] on 23/03/2019 - 22:30

      I can tell you on prices, SA is the most expensive; NSW the cheapest but if there is hail in QLD then QLD is a winner

      • T1OOO on 24/03/2019 - 11:45

        That’s cause sa is flat and small. Nsw is unjulating a lot worse for the car. Do really normalised it’s the same.

      • CodeXD on 25/03/2019 - 09:54

        ACT is obviously the most expensive with its Canberra tax on top of everything.

  • [Deactivated] on 23/03/2019 - 22:33

    A dealer sold me a car that had gearbox problem when heated, i.e. after 30 min driving. The fault obviously didn't show up in my brief test drive. The car is 10+ old; is there any protection for customer in this case?

    I read that 10+ year old cars are sold as is?

    • spackbace on 23/03/2019 - 22:35

      In WA, 12+yo cars or over 180,000km don't have a stat warranty and is very much "buyer beware"

    • CodeXD on 25/03/2019 - 09:56
      +1

      How long have you had the car for? I bought a car (2013) off dealership and it came with 3 months used car warranty. Had an issue with the head unit 2 weeks in and they ordered and replaced it for free.

      Always good to check with the dealership and check the contract you have signed.

      • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2019 - 21:17

        Long story, I was picking it up from inter-state and it had the problem on Day 1. As I was stuck in evening traffic, I noticed the fault when the car became hot.

        I called dealer but they were closed. So, I slept overnight about a km from the dealership to return it tomorrow. The next day when I drove, I realised it was in perfect condition not knowing that the fault was due to heat.

        The dealer told me, look, this is just an electrical and common fault for these cars. In the unlikely that it happens again just turn off and on.

        But, in reality the fault would show up again after 30 minutes or so, with the condition of driving slow and in traffic, etc. As I started highway driving I didn't realise the fault until the next day in a different State. Then I didn't bother to return it.

  • Invisiblefreak on 24/03/2019 - 01:09

    Hello! We are looking for a car that is less than $20k to drive to and from work (suburbs to city), what do you suggest?

  • pacman99 on 24/03/2019 - 02:12

    Thanks for the AMA.
    Reading your replies, I'm getting the vibe that a customer who is debating between two or three different cars isn't exactly appreciated. For example, if I'm debating between a Toyota and a Mazda and want to test drive both before committing, I can be seen as "wasting your time" because I would be shopping around.

    Any way I can drop in for a test drive to make my decision easier without causing too much bad blood? After all, I'd likely have to return to one of the dealers to start the negotiation process.

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 02:16
      +1

      Nah I actually wouldn't say that's a bad thing, and it's very common

      My recommendations are usually:

      1. Research cars within your budget
      2. Go look at cars, size them up, see if there's any that don't look/feel right
      3. On another day, test drive the top 3, back to back. That way you haven't forgotten how 1 feels compared to the others
      4. Narrow it down to 1, go through the purchase process
  • Tasmaniac on 24/03/2019 - 04:02

    Is it compulsory for every salesman to slap the bonnet of the car they're selling ?.

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 12:17
      +2

      Nope, slap the roof

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 24/03/2019 - 09:32

    You you guys thrash the demo cars in your own time?

  • vroomkroom on 24/03/2019 - 09:36

    Do you think we will buy cars online in the near future? With the likes of Tesla disrupting this space with having no showrooms!

    • T1OOO on 24/03/2019 - 11:47

      Tesla have show rooms.

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 12:19

      Has been discussed before. Would take a long time, and manufacturers would have to buy out dealerships. Long and expensive process

      • brad1-8tsi on 25/03/2019 - 09:55

        I think Ford AU tried to buy out the dealerships in late 90s (Geoff Polites era)? They also tried to go to a fixed priced model. The former, as you say, took too much time/money and the latter was a dismal failure as those dealerships that were still independent continued to discount below Ford's fixed price.

  • MrFrugalSpend on 24/03/2019 - 09:43

    I am one of those customers who:

    • Hates sales tactics, is wary of small talk/bulls…, over-confident salespeople, and want all terms & conditions clearly laid-out etc.
    • Will only buy a high value item like a car when I have all the details, do a couple of comparisons / research online, and decide if it is a good deal quantitatively - no amount of talking will convince me to do anything other than research and compare to other deals.
    • Doesn't value any advice about car choices from a salesperson because it is not impartial.

    If the salesperson just cut to the chase with the best price, I'll do my own assessment and make a decision. Am I best to basically be upfront about this (and point out if it isn't the best deal I find in 200km i'm not going to buy) or do I have to put this aside and pretend I like to chat to get the best deal!?

    Also, once a deal is offered and it doesn't quite cut it, would I be better off asking for:

    • More money for my trade-in;
    • More money off the sale price;
    • Accessories / options thrown in (harder for a demonstrator/dealer owned car - my preference to save a few bucks); or
    • Something else - such as some Services included or extended warranty? (I'm always skeptical of these as its hard to assess how much value they will be or if the fineprint has too many exceptions).
    • or does it not matter - just the net dollar value?

    (Sorry if someone else already asked some of this, with 7 pages of comments I didn't read them all).

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 12:20

      Has been asked before but just be up front about your shopping, and do us a favour and don't quote our price to the next guy. Grab everyone's prices separately

  • globalmurphy on 24/03/2019 - 11:40

    what are the rules surrounding hail damaged cars? is there degrees of hail damage such as repairable write off or cannot be registered again? does buying a hail damage car and fixing or not fixing put an asterix on it when reselling or registering?

  • mirz on 24/03/2019 - 12:24

    What are your thoughts on Volvo (3-5 years old) in particular XC90? Thanks

  • Tech and cars on 24/03/2019 - 12:27

    What's your thoughts on most of the cars having CVT gearboxes these days? Does it make it harder for you to sell?

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 12:39

      Nope

      New cvts are fine, unlike the older ones from mits/Nissan that just sounded odd.

      New Corolla has a 1st gear, then goes into the cvt. All hybrids are cvt, and popular as hell

      • slowcoach on 24/03/2019 - 14:19

        While we’re on cvts, my Nissan xtrail t32 (4yo) is a cvt. Works fine, quite happy with it for the family car. Don’t like manual mode though. In a traditional auto if you select manual mode, say 3rd gear, it will change between 3rd, 2nd and 1st as required. In the Nissan it only changes down. Is that how other ones work in your experience?

        • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 14:21

          Can't remember tbh, don't often switch them over! If I do, it's because I want to change through the 'gears' myself

  • ireadtermsofuse on 24/03/2019 - 12:56

    Do new cars actual come with car mats already in them then the dealership takes them out and sells them separately?

  • pink on 24/03/2019 - 15:16

    What's the best price you can get on an 86?

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 15:17

      As previously mentioned elsewhere, look at 1yo options with <10,000kms

      • pink on 24/03/2019 - 15:18

        And what about new? I was also looking at auto…

        • Kill Joy on 27/03/2019 - 08:00

          Don't waste your money on new with 86s. The new modal is all but announced (will dip the current price further), they depreciate quickly and heavily, and p platers love to crash them so premiums are high. Go used or buy another car.

  • Ozbargainlyf on 24/03/2019 - 16:14

    Brand new models, are you likely able to negotiate 10% off? Toyota or European?

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 16:37
      +1

      About $1800 off Toyota RRP on new models

  • CharityCase on 24/03/2019 - 16:15

    I bought a Suzuki Swift from one of the awesome deals you shared on Ozbargain. As you know Suzuki has a policy that you have to do scheduled services undertaken by authorised Suzuki Dealers in order to be eligible for the 5 Year/140,000km Extended Warranty. Now I'm due for my 4th scheduled service (year 2) but my odometer reading is quite low ( around 13000km), can I delay my scheduled service until I reach 20000km without voiding my warranty? Just trying to save a bit money here…

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 16:36
      +1

      Nope, every CPS program requires you to service as per the conditions, whichever comes first

      • CharityCase on 24/03/2019 - 17:13

        Just a follow-up question, does dealer scheduled maintenance really have much more "value" compared to third party ones except for warranty purposes?

  • Hotpotcorn on 24/03/2019 - 17:14

    thoughts about your competitor mazda?

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 17:30

      Haven't driven the new new stuff. Older stuff had bad road noise

  • CodeXD on 24/03/2019 - 18:02

    How do I get that new car smell in my old car?

    • spackbace on 24/03/2019 - 18:08
      +2

      Replace whole interior of old car, with a new car interior

    • brad1-8tsi on 25/03/2019 - 09:59

      Google it. There are a number of methods.

  • ganymede on 24/03/2019 - 19:18

    What are the incentives/rebates/marketing support given by the car manufacturers, financing companies, suppliers, etc to car dealership like yours?

  • Deuce on 24/03/2019 - 20:24

    I can't be bothered reading through the whole AMA to see if someone asked this (I did a quick skim and couldn't find the question)

    Why did you get into car sales?

    For example, I bloke I knew had just came to Australia. Worked his butt off and saved enough money to buy a Honda Integra DC2 Type R. On the day of delivery they gave him a used version of the car, being new to Australia he didn't know anyone or anything regarding laws etc. So he took it and made a promise to himself that he would never do that to any customer he comes across.

    That bloke is now a Manager for a major dealer in Sydney and he used his past experience as motivation to make sure that it never happened to anyone else.

    So did you have a reason or story about your career choice?

  • kampua on 24/03/2019 - 20:44
    -2

    When is the best time to buy a new car? I heard EOFY and year end is usually customers get gouged, my observation is end of March and September is better. Is it so?

    • spackbace on 25/03/2019 - 01:13

      Gouged? No they don't. EOY, Hilux was at its cheapest for a while, and it'll likely go on sale again at EOFY

      Everything depends on the model. Some models can randomly be cheaper through the year. Pays to keep an eye out and know when the car is at its cheapest, and grab it. Don't wait till the last day of the sale to do something.

  • seraphim2017 on 24/03/2019 - 21:02

    How do car dealers feel about haggling? what works?

  • funnysht on 24/03/2019 - 23:28

    before finishing car 5 yr warrantry, do you advice ppl to get a inspection done by an independent mechanic to see if there are any faults, if so and a fault is detected how likely do the company fix it before warrantry expires?

    • spackbace on 25/03/2019 - 00:10

      Not something I'd advise no, but if you want to then go ahead!

      Depends how big the fault is I guess

      • funnysht on 25/03/2019 - 00:15

        i guess if it's like oil leak or something serious, then you take it to the dealership and show what the independent mechanic said, will the dealership lie and say no that's not an issue? i guess it depends on the dealership etc though,

        • spackbace on 25/03/2019 - 01:11

          Yeah too many variables and "what ifs"

  • jason101 on 25/03/2019 - 07:41

    Are new vehicle dealers worried of the decline in service department revenue brought about by full electric vehicles? Are there any longer term strategies you are aware of that dealers may be implementing to combat revenue loss into the future?

    • spackbace on 25/03/2019 - 10:34

      Have answered this before.

      Nope
      Nope

  • Hotpotcorn on 25/03/2019 - 09:49

    do you genuinely think that upgrading to metallic paint is worth it for the money?

    and also if we buy a top tier vehicle (lets say a toyota 3.5l camry) do you usually throw in free floor mats/black rego plate?

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