Homeowners Liability When Paying for Casual Work - NSW

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  Quantumcat on 12/03/2019 - 17:15

  +2

  What if he gets an ABN and you engage him as a contractor? Then he'll probably be expected to cover his own insurance? IANAL

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  HighAndDry on 12/03/2019 - 17:19

  +3

  But if I give some work to an unemployed fellow while he is job hunting (my plan) then he is regarded as my employee.

  Seems easier to just hire someone who's actually a contractor and has their own insurance.

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  altomic on 12/03/2019 - 17:22

  +2

  you need to first have a look at what the NSW workcover authority considers a worker.

  have look at this page from icare.nsw.gov.au

  but ultimately you need to consider the legal definition of what the the Workplace Injury Management and Workers Compensation Act considers to be a "worker"

  This is found in Schedule 1 of that Act

  Schedule 1 Deemed employment of workers does not include:

  (b) a person whose employment is casual (that is for 1 period only of not more than 5 working days) and who is employed otherwise than for the purposes of the employer’s trade or business,

  ultimately - if the work is going to take less than five (5) days then they are not considered a worker under the Act.

  it is the time frame that is the decider.

  if you "hire"/contract someone and the contract/email states "I will hire you for 4 days to do this job" and they hurt themselves and put in a claim, then they will not be successful in their claim. because they were not hired for more than 5 days.

  source: I use to be a claims manager for Vic WorkSafe (I then worked for a law firm managing injured workers claims.)

• 

  whooah1979 on 12/03/2019 - 18:20

  +1

  Get the handyman to issue a quote before the job and an invoice after the work is done.

  • 

    Dabbler68 on 12/03/2019 - 18:40

    Unless I'm misiing something I don't think that will make any difference with the liability risk.

  • 

    HighAndDry on 13/03/2019 - 13:19

    OP wants to hire an unemployed person - no ABN means they can't invoice OP as a contractor.

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  Seraphin7 on 12/03/2019 - 18:35

  +4

  You can either engage the services of a genuine contractor with all the relevant insurances … and pay commercial rates for the service.

  Or, you can engage your unemployed acquaintance and pay less for the service … but need to either purchase relevant insurance or take the risk on personally.

  • 

    Dabbler68 on 13/03/2019 - 00:52

    I am happy to get and pay for that insurance but have not found a policy that will cover it.

    Thinking further about altomic's response above, I also suspect that even if I did have Workers Compensation cover from them, they would deny liability if the person did not meet the definition of an employee.

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  Dabbler68 on 12/03/2019 - 18:36

  Yes, thanks altomic, but I don't see that I am covered. To me that definition just helps clarify whether or not I am OBLIGATED to have workers compensation insurance.

  Let's say you come to my place and slip on wet tiles at the entry. You decide to make a claim on me as a result.

  If you came as a visitor, my home insurance liability cover will protect me.

  Bur it you came to do a simple job for payment, then my insurance won't cover me. You can still make a claim. Maybe the claim has no merit but I still need to defend it or pay you. So what protects me in that case?

  Sure, tradesmen in business should have their own cover. But how many people use Airtasker or hire handymen or babysitters directly, not realising they are at risk.

  • 

    Quantumcat on 12/03/2019 - 19:11

    I don't think this can be true, otherwise if you hired an independent plumber (a contractor) to fix a leak you would need to pay hundreds for an insurance policy to avoid risking thousands if they hurt themselves. It makes no sense. Maybe ask a legal aid lawyer? Seems like a basic enough question that they should be able to get you a trustable answer.

    • 

      Dabbler68 on 13/03/2019 - 00:47

      Yes it should be an easy answer but apparently not so. My Home insurer referred me to icare. I called them and did not get a satisfactory solution.

      Thinking further about altomic's response above, I also suspect that even if I did have Workers Compensation cover from them, they would deny liability if the person did not meet the definition of an employee.

      To answer your comment about a tradesman such as a plumber, they should have their own policy, so not an issue. Also, a gardener, from say Jim's Mowing would be covered by Jim's Mowing policy.

      But getting someone from Airtasker is not covered. Their website insurance FAQ includes this:

      What happens if the Tasker gets injured whilst completing the task?

      The policy does not cover personal injury to an Tasker or subcontractors and should not be considered a replacement for workers compensation, salary protection or other similar types of insurance. The policy also does not cover any damage to property of an Tasker or a subcontractor.

      • 

        Quantumcat on 13/03/2019 - 06:45

        Well the person you want to hire is a friend, right? Tell him to get an ABN and take care of his own insurance.

        • 

          HighAndDry on 13/03/2019 - 13:23

          @Quantumcat: You want OP's friend, who's unemployed and obviously doing odd jobs because they have no money, to register an ABN and take out and pay for insurance, when they have absolutely no stable stream of work that'd need that insurance?

  • 

    HighAndDry on 13/03/2019 - 13:21

    But how many people use Airtasker or hire handymen or babysitters directly, not realising they are at risk.

    Have you seen the kinds of problems people post here? I've no doubt plenty of people fall into this group, and most of them have no issues, a large majority of the rest might run into issues but the worker won't know that they're entitled to make any kind of claim, and the remainder probably rounds down to zero.

    Of course, the one time it does happen, someone's going to go bankrupt and lose their house.

• 

  elgrande on 13/03/2019 - 06:23

  Is your house booby trapped?

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  Dabbler68 on 13/03/2019 - 10:34

  The problem is it's hard manual work on a steep block. I have tried to get gardeners and those that do land clearing, but when they look at the job they aren't interested. When they can get all the work they want strolling around with a leaf blower, why bother. Being on the NSW Central Coast the numbers of such tradies is limited.

  If I could solve the insurance issue I would try Airtasker.

  • 

    HighAndDry on 13/03/2019 - 13:24

    I have tried to get gardeners and those that do land clearing, but when they look at the job they aren't interested.

    Well you have two choices:

    • Get your mate to do it and "self-insure" (which is just a fancy way of saying take the risk yourself and if anything happens you pay for it), or

    • Offer those licenced gardeners/workman above-market rates - they'll definitely take the job if you're offering enough money.