Hi guys,
Does anyone have any links to information/details on whether or not a homeowner is liable if a person hurts themselves while working on your property?
For instance you engage a member of the public for money to do gardening and they then hurt themselves, will you be liable?
I know some tradies have their own insurance, but I wonder what happens if they dont + what happens if you get a general member of public from say AirTasker.com to do something.
Cheers for any help you might have.
IlostNemo - sorry about that.
I'm curious from the standpoint of any contractor you engage to do housework. It could be a handyman who builds you a shelf and in doing so cuts his hand off with his own saw.
As he was working on the homeowners property at the time, does that make the owner liable should he not be insured?
If you have home and contents insurance it would generally have a liability cover. So, in the event that someone injured themselves in your property and decides to sue you. Your insurance policy will cover you for any potential damages.
Thanks 1ch1go - it appears my AAMI policy does have liability insurance up to $10M. Thanks for the point in the right direction.
No worries. Let's just hope you never have to use it!
This is unfortunately incorrect
Anyone who is legally an employee would not be covered under your liability
"a member of the public for money to do gardening" would definitely need Worker's Compensation cover
See comments below
As the wife of a builder I know that anyone working on your property has to have insurance to cover not only any injuries to themselves but also any damage to the homeowners property. However should you be a pet owner whose large dog attacks your tradesman that would come back to you ! Luckily in the 30 years my husband has been in business none of the above has happened. Good luck
And I think it has to be a licensed tradie as well
Try googling 'occupier's liability'
For all those people that have home cleaners, lawn mowers on a regular basis - be careful, you'll need domestic workers insurance in case they fall down the stairs etc. You're their employer - just like you'd expect your employer to have work cover insurance for your benefit.
Even if they have their own insurance, their insurance company may go you if there ever is a claim.
Check workcoverqld.com.au
http://www.workcoverqld.com.au/insurance/do-i-need-a-policy/…
$50 for 2 years - well worth it.
Depends on your jurisdiction, but you're spot-on. At least for Tasmania as well as Qld, public liability will not cover a domestic workers compensation event (I think NSW & Vic have legislated differently, but best to check)…here, once you've employed someone for 48 hours (assume that's working hours, but that's not hard to clock up if it's a gardener, etc you hire on a regular basis) you are deemed to be the employer. I had to change our home & contents insurer as they didn't offer Domestic Workers Comp cover as an add-on.
MITM is correct
Liability cover is almost certainly excluded for paid employees
Independent contractors may not require cover and Liability may apply under certain circumstances
But "a member of the public for money to do gardening" is going to be an employee
GDH is ocrrect - Worker's Compensation varies from State to State
In NSW you don't need to purchase a policy unless your annual wages inc super etc exceed $7,500 in any given period
A gardener or cleaner shouldn't exceed this amount - especially if paid in cash as there are no records anyway
If they do injure themselves you lodge a claim against the Govt scheme - lodging costs $200 odd - and the injured worker is covered
Reference - http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/insurancepremiums/Policies/T…
Not sure about other states but you may be able to buy an add-on to your domestic policy to cover Domestic Worker's Compensation
Noblejoker, I realise you posted this along time ago but I just discovered it.
I assume that in NSW, if you employ a gardener/s and don't go over the $7500 pa limit (you don't have to purchase an insurance policy - or can't) then if someone is injured, then they or you could claim through work cover NSW?
My situation is I plan to hire a couple of backpackers for a week to do some gardening.
Thanks
Otfd1
https://www.workersinsurance.icare.nsw.gov.au/premiums-and-p…
If total wages is under $7,500 you are exempt
Check workcoverqld.com.au
http://www.workcoverqld.com.au/insurance/do-i-need-a-policy/…
$50 for 2 years - well worth it.
Unless you absolutely HAVE to do so, don't be in a rush to do it this week. All of their policies have a common end date, which is currently end of December next year. It's a 2 year policy and there is no pro-rata discount except that it drops from $50 down to $25 if there is less than 12 months remaining on the policy, so come January you're going to pay $25 less than you will during December.
Looks like it's already been cleared up with previous comments but put simply:
A licensed trades person (electrician/telstra/plumber etc) will have their own liability and insurance cover.
An unlicensed worker - gardener, cleaner, handyman etc could very well be your responsibility.
You should have public liability cover for such accidents; would cover any person injured on your property (including children). This is usually included with your house and contents insurance. Self-employed trades people working on your property, work sites etc usually have their own insurances; but it would be wise to ensure that you are covered in case they have omitted to reinsure themselves.
I believe you need to also have the cover in case trespassers have accidents on your property too. Trespasser I chased off once (about 16 years ago) ran smack into a banana tree (poor tree) but luckily (for me) it wasn't on my property. I (mum with young toddler) received a caution for scarIng the dolt. Must say, those tracker Police dogs really know their stuff, pouring rain at the time. The Police and their dog left a very good impression with me.
where did the dog leave it's impression ? Hope the handler cleaned up after - or could be fined.
Lol no poos. Was an old dog due for retirement too apparently; his partner fussed about him, cared for him well.. I think we should have more of them.
You wouldn't say that if you knew how most of them are trained. I had a retired one that had severe drug withdrawal.
I must say I have never heard of any drug problems with these dogs, so sad if this is so. I asked the officer why he picked the dog up afterwards and carried him up to the van, and was told he was due for retirement. It was obvious to me the officer cared. By the way, the creep, who was trying to get into my toddler's bedroom window (but managed to escape) returned a few weeks later; my neighbour's little girls found him peering through at them. The father gave immediate chase but he got away again. My thinking is that if we have more Police and police dogs then we would hopefully be safer.
Either way, you probably still need to make sure that your property is well maintained and safe for any policy to payout. No difference to car insurance… if its not legally safe then your insurance will not be valid
Op are you affiliated with airtasker?
Hi Kwaker,
No I'm not affiliated with AirTasker - just a punter who is about to use it for first time (to remove some tree stumps, $25 each - bargain) and had a lawyer friend question the liability stuff.
I now finally get what OP stands for after searching for it so thanks.
PS: In your profile, there is a typo on your location: Syndey
Should have replied to your question and not made a new comment. Sorry
Do you own such an amount of assets that someone could profit by legal action?
My amount of assets is beside the point here sorry.
It's not about people just looking to profit, or trying to protect my material posessions - my concern was if someone was hired from a site like AirTasker.com - and this person does jobs in their spare time (without proper trades person insurance nor being actually qualified) - if they sincerely hurt themselves and caused damage, would I be liable given they 99.9% likely don't have appropriate insurance.
If the answer was YES and I didn't have any kind of cover - I would look to avoid sites like AirTasker and instead hire trades people directly (for more money) but feel confident they had their own insurance.
I think we are overkilling this now so signing out =)
Yeah your like most people in this regards. Lawyers like to intimidate people that's how most of their cases are won. You might be liable but what is the affect on you?
If you don't have much assets you don't need to worry so much because its not viable to sue you. That's why pensioners don't bother with car insurance.
It costs upfront legal fees and if you don't own assets that cover this let alone with enough leftover to profit.
If you have enough assets then cheap labor should be off your plate anyway.
Work cover insurance $50 for 2 years as above sounds like a good way to ease your worries.
Thanks for pointing that out …. stalker
Hahahaha no worries.
If a tree-pruner fell off his ladder into your prize cactus garden, surely a court would damages to the homeowner?
But if no-one was around to hear said pruner fall into my prized Cacti - would it make a sound?
Here is 2 true cases.
Robber steals TV xxxx times. Owner buys (another) new TV and a lovely new fence with spikes on the top. Robber tries to steal new TV gets impailed smashes TV on ground. Owner had to pay robber compensation for causing a hazard which they knew that the robber would be back. Robber did not pay for TV.
Dog owner has friendly dog but puts dangerous dog sign on fence. Robber claims dog bit him. Owners can't prove it wasn't their dog. That sign alone admits they knew their dog was dangerous and they did not remove this hazard. They pay robber compo.
If you hire someone to do a few tasks around the home they aren't your employee, they are a contractor. They aren't entitled to workers compensation if they get injured.
Sorry but that is incorrect
Unless they are giving you a valid tax invoice including abn number based on a contract price (not an hourly rate) they are almost certain to be deemed an employee
Remember even contractors can be deemed employees under workers comp law
Worker's Compensation is a state based law and is not the same as tax law
Are you a lawyer, or better yet, a workers compensation/employment lawyer?
The courts will look at the indicia of employment to determine if they are a contractor or employee. You can't get workers comp if you are a contractor, and deeming someone as an employee is limited. If you're paying someone occasionally to come around and clean your yard, or paint a fence, or do any task like airtasker, they are not an employee. Even if they don't provide you with an invoice.
Especially if that person is doing regular spot jobs for airtasker (which it would be easy to prove).
Not a lawyer but I am an Insurance industry pro for 20+ yrs
I have seen cases of employers being heavily fined for not declaring 'casual' workers on their Worker's Compensation policies
I have also seen claims made where people clearly working as 'contractors' have been deemed workers and therefore made (very expensive) claims on the employers workers comp
As per previous comments my experience relates to NSW
Worker's Compensation law is different in every state and different to Tax law
Most cases involving Worker's Compensation don't get to the workers comp court
The insurer acting under Workcover authority treat virtually every claim as legit at least to start with
Employers are 'guilty until proven innocent'
That's why you are better off to have a policy in place to protect you
Protection comes from either paying out claims or by proving it isn't your responsibility by paying for your defence
You can fund your own lawyer I guess - but that won't be cheap and costs may not be recovered
The point is the OP clearly wants to be protected
The solution is very simple and cheap - in fact in NSW likely no cost at all (unless you need to claim)
Doing nothing and taking advice 'you should be right' doesn't protect them
Researching and putting a policy in place does
I am a workers comp lawyer, in NSW. You'd be crazy to take out a workers comp policy for a few airtasker jobs (unless you already had a policy in place and were employing other people).
There's no way you'd be paying more than $7500 anyway.
"There's no way you'd be paying more than $7500 anyway."
Yep - that's what I said
"The solution is very simple and cheap - in fact in NSW likely no cost at all (unless you need to claim)"
SO our solutions are the same - do nothing and 'you should be right'
@one man clan:
thanks for detailed discussion.
however, i'm feeling bit lost here. as a owner (or job poster), is it advisable to take policy to cover owner's liability for such casual jobs?
i'm from Sydney and planning to get some paint work done. i was planning to post it on airtasker but looking at their insurance FAQ it seems like their insurance policy will cover the liability of the worker but will not cover the liability of the job poster.
need some advice here w.r.t. NSW laws regarding such worse case scenario.
thanks in advance.
@ameyas7:
Airtakser covers the taskers liability to you and others
So if he spills paint on your carpet or injures your spouse or something
Your liability to him and neighbours, passerby etc is covered under your Home Building and Home COntents insurance
You have Insurance right?
@Noblejoker:
Thanks for your comments. The building is currently insured by strata. For home & contents insurance, I haven't taken it as yet as we will be moving in about 2 weeks time. Since the unit will be empty for few days, I was planning to squeeze-in the paint job.
Does strata's building insurance cover 3rd party accidents / injuries on your property or will it be home insurance to cover that?
As I have the former but the latter is not in place yet.
@ameyas7:
Strata insurance protects the Stratas interests
You are not the Strata so you need your own cover
(just the same way as if you had shares in Westfield but also had a shop in a Westfield)
Just start your Contents Insurance when you buy/settle on the unit and the Liability cover included in it will be in place during the painting/reno. Starting 2 weeks sooner is minimal cost. Good Luck :)
@Noblejoker:
Thanks again.
Signed up for contents cover policy. they mentioned they can't issue a building insurance as its a strata based unit. contents insurance only covers the liability if someone meets with an accident due to my contents but not a general liability cover. something is better than nothing though :)
Thanks again.
@ameyas7: Can't speak for your policy specifically but generally Home Building cover has liability that covers ownership of land/property including building. You have this via Strata in your case.
Home COntents includes liability as a tenant/occupier and also as a general private citizen, so for incidents away from home. I have handled a claim where someone scratched a car with a shopping trolley for example.
You have done what you can and you are good to go
Odds are nothing will go wrong but - if it does- you should be right
@one man clan:
Hello One man clan,
I just posted something similar to Noblejoker: Sorry, but I spent a couple of frustrating hours on the phone and online trying to work out if I could get insurance. I realise my ignorance was/is the problem.
I assume that in NSW, if you employ a gardener/s and don't go over the $7500 pa limit (you don't have to purchase an insurance policy - or can't) then if someone is injured, then they or you could claim through work cover NSW?
My situation is I plan to hire a couple of backpackers for a week to do some gardening.
A follow up question which is probably not relevant to me but: if you are going to pay more than $7500 pa and are not a business (e.g rent out a couple of rooms for holiday letting like me), can you get workers comp insurance without a ABN?
Thanks
Otfd1
Australia has become a right "Ducked" up place. Its litigation gone mad, if you are paying someone for a service they should be responsible for their own actions & safety. ie if they fall off a ladder because it was not secured or they were using it incorrectly their problem. They should be insured for themselves and for any damage they cause on your property. If they are up a ladder and knock it out with your car etc, then maybe they have a claim against you. The problem is here people are now looking to be mothered for anything they do and take no responsibility for their own actions. Likewise kids that come home from school with a broken arm……its part of life, sh#t happens, parents should not be suing the school.
You need to supply more information, ie what caused the injury?
If you have a loose/chipped floor tile, and someone/anyone slips/trips over it, they could build a case against you.