Will This Change Your Mind about Amazon AU?

jackspratt on 27/02/2019 - 16:29

ABC online has done a fairly long article on what it is like to work at the Amazon "Fulfillment" warehouse in Dandenong.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-27/amazon-australia-ware…

The key points from the workers (sorry, "associates") seem to be:

  • the workplace is built around a culture of fear where their performance is timed to the second;

  • they are expected to constantly work at ‘Amazon pace’, described as somewhere between walking and jogging;

  • high-pressure targets make them feel like they can’t go to the toilet and sometimes push them to cut safety corners;

  • they can be sent home early without being paid for the rest of their shift when orders are completed; and

  • everyone is employed as a casual and constantly anxious about whether they’ll get another shift.

Amazon has responded with what to me seems to be a set of glib and reptitive boiler-plate answers to the issues raised by the ABC:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-27/amazon-australia-resp…

It has certainly given me food for thought over whether or not I would order again from Amazon.

How about you?

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Comments

    • wozz on 28/02/2019 - 18:59
      +4

      Fair call. To make me more of a hypocrite i don't know if I'd be willing to pay an extra 50% for this non essential device if it meant better conditions :/

      • MementoMori on 01/03/2019 - 10:37
        +4

        You're missing the point.

        The product can cost the same - it's that the company won't make as many millions. They will still be profitable so they will still operate.

        Let's also add that Amazon (and Google, and Apple, etc) basically pay 0% Australian company tax.

    • caitsith01 on 05/03/2019 - 12:20

      Well, I guess no-one can talk about making things better because we're all complicit in the current system.

  • Gandalf the Thrifty on 27/02/2019 - 17:43
    +11

    According to article same is US and Europe, so normal Amazon working conditions. Warehouse being in a low income area seems they are targeting possibly desperate people though.

    Plenty of the items you buy come from overseas factories with worse conditions, that doesn't generally stop anyone buying them.

    Most of these issues will be resolved when robotics/AI catches up a bit to automate most of the manufacturing sector.

    • HighAndDry on 27/02/2019 - 17:48
      +10

      These people are desperate solely because they can't get better jobs elsewhere - otherwise they'd be in those jobs.

      And I'm not sure that robots replacing these workers is "resolved" - again, these people would just end up in even worse jobs; they'd be in better jobs already if they could.

    • Geoff-bargain on 28/02/2019 - 10:48

      yep same as US and Europe - BBC Panorama did an expose a few years back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgaC8MWGtUg

  • saltysalt on 27/02/2019 - 17:46
    +28

    I like a deal as much as the next person. But when margins get slimmer and slimmer the real cost of things gets hidden and someone is paying if it isn’t you. Perfect example is what has happend to milk and Australian dairy farmers. The Australia I love should encourage better working conditions not these shit jobs where people treat their dogs better than their employees.

      • saltysalt on 27/02/2019 - 18:06
        +14

        I think you misunderstood my point and you’re getting hung up on the dog thing, so sorry for confusing you. For real tho, you think it’s ok that people are scared to go to the toilet?

          • saltysalt on 27/02/2019 - 18:22
            +30

            @HighAndDry: Almost every business in Australia does do better than this and that’s the point. There is a general concensus that these are unacceptable work practices. Unfortunately it’s people like you who are happy to turn a blind eye on those unfortunate enough to have to take this job because you believe getting cheap items are more important than their wellbeing. Obviously much worse happens overseas but why openly encourage bad work practices in Australia? You realise many of these international corps will also avoid paying taxes in Australia by any means possible.

            • HighAndDry on 27/02/2019 - 18:23
              -6

              @saltysalt:

              Almost every business in Australia does do better than this and that’s the point.

              So why aren't these workers getting jobs at those businesses then?

              There is a general concensus that these are unacceptable work practices.

              Abject ad populum fallacy. Also obviously false - if there was a consensus, Amazon would have noone to staff its warehouses.

              bad work practices in Australia

              You say this like it's an objective fact. Since when did "schedule break times" become a bad practice?

              And why are you bringing up taxes? Amazon is paying these people a wage. That's more than the absolute NOTHING that you're doing for them. Go take a ride on your high horse.

              • ensanguined on 27/02/2019 - 21:25
                +10

                @HighAndDry:

                Abject ad populum fallacy.

                You really need a life outside of Ozbargain, for real.

                • HighAndDry on 27/02/2019 - 21:29
                  -8

                  @ensanguined: Hey! I have a life, though I could probably spend less time here. But it amuses me still, plus bargains. What's not to like?

                  Though personally of that comment I was more proud of combining 'take a ride' with 'high horse'. Not impressed?

              • abb on 01/03/2019 - 10:14
                +3

                @HighAndDry:

                Amazon is paying these people a wage. That's more than the absolute NOTHING that you're doing for them.

                From a certain perspective, it can be argued that Amazon is doing worse than nothing, as Amazon is pocketing some of the value of their labour… ;)

                • HighAndDry on 01/03/2019 - 10:16
                  +2

                  @abb: True, but Amazon is also the only one giving their labour worth anything in the first place - it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it after all.

        • burningrage on 28/02/2019 - 19:53
          +1

          The toilet part I am sure is a typical ABC style of exaggeration.

          There is always fair work Australia.

          • echineon on 28/02/2019 - 22:03
            +2

            @burningrage: Fair work can only go so far. These people are employed on casual basis, sure when you have to go you have to go but don't come back tomorrow is a reality for casual employment.

            • HighAndDry on 01/03/2019 - 10:18

              @echineon: Would you rather employ someone who can adhere to scheduled breaks or someone who can't?

              • echineon on 01/03/2019 - 14:11
                +1

                @HighAndDry: If I was the employer my employee is allowed to go on toilet break if they need to. It's give and take if I had to take 20 mins restroom break because of diarrhea I'll stay back a bit to do some extra.

                • HighAndDry on 01/03/2019 - 14:25

                  @echineon:

                  If I was the employer

                  Great. Go employ these people.

                  if I had to take 20 mins restroom break because of diarrhea I'll stay back a bit to do some extra.

                  This would be illegal, plus given what these people are complaining about, they'd definitely complain if they had to do this too.

                  • echineon on 01/03/2019 - 15:49

                    @HighAndDry: The 20 mins break due to diarrhea illegal or the staying back? Says your manager told you to finish these tasks/report today and you had to take 20 mins on the shitter would you stay back 10-15 mins to finish the job? My work still do clock on clock off for full time staff and usually less than 15 mins is the rounding on the system.

    • [Deactivated] on 27/02/2019 - 17:53

      You do realise that Murray Goulburn is the dairy farmer's own collective?

      • saltysalt on 27/02/2019 - 18:11

        It’s not like they are the only supplier so they still need to have a hat in the ring. What’s your point?

        • [Deactivated] on 27/02/2019 - 18:24
          +3

          You were talking about working conditions, remember? The farmers ostensibly work for themselves and had the price paid for their product set by their own collective according to contracts they signed.

  • Hithere on 27/02/2019 - 18:01
    +17

    The clothing most of us wear is made in sweat shops where wages are even lower than Amazon pay.

    Are you going to stop wearing clothes OP?

    Possibly the workers in Amazon's warehouse wouldn't be able to find employment elsewhere so at least they have a job and an income and aren't dole bludgers.

    • HighAndDry on 27/02/2019 - 18:05
      +1

      so at least they have a job

      Exactly. I don't see the Amazon detractors here clamouring to give those people jobs, much less a better one. It's always "no - other people should do this better."

    • jackspratt on 27/02/2019 - 20:38
      -6

      My OP is about amazon.com.au, not amazon.com.bd - or red herrings for that matter.

    • [Deactivated] on 28/02/2019 - 17:29
      +1

      There's plenty of ways to purchase items, clothing or otherwise, in an ethical way.

    • teekoo on 28/02/2019 - 21:34
      -1

      It's not the pay the cost of living is a lot cheaper in the countries where clothes are made

  • profar on 27/02/2019 - 18:12
    +1

    Markets forces is the reason milk is low . Over supply on the market = low prices . Be cool others in that type of markets get subsidies to continue in a glut . Probable didn't notice the 100 of million's if not a billion wasted on the car industry from yes tax payers $$$$$$$$$$$$$ .
    Don't get the comparison of the productive Amazon workers to milk farmers ?

  • BertieBrown on 27/02/2019 - 22:21
    +8

    I’ve generally heard bad things about how Amazon treats their employees in the US, so I’m not surprised in the least it’s also occurring here.

    It’s easy to say that folks should toughen up, or just deal with it, when we’re not the ones actually doing the job. Ultimately we should be striving for the optimal work conditions for employees and employers, it’s not exactly surprising that positive reinforcement, decent treatment, and safe working practices lead to more productive workers. A happy worker is a productive worker.

    Unfortunately I would think that one of the ways that Amazon makes money is by cutting as much out of their costs as possible, so putting pressure on employees to perform isn’t unsurprising, but it likely attracts only the most desperate or unfortunate that are willing to work in those conditions.

    • deelaroo on 27/02/2019 - 22:35
      +1

      I’ve generally heard bad things about how Amazon treats their employees in the US

      They pay more than standard, give good benefits and employees can take stock options after a couple of years.

      Yes they put in place performance management as otherwise staff would be lazy. You can go watch on Youtube people talking about working there and they even agree they need to have them in place because lots of slack people. ABC story saying about people not being called back in, clearly if you aren't keeping up they aren't going to have you do a job that is dependent on that.

      • cloudy on 01/03/2019 - 06:09
        +1

        I don’t think our factory workers will be getting stock options haha

        • deelaroo on 01/03/2019 - 10:09
          +1

          Not sure why not. Pickers/packers in warehouses in US get them after like a year or two I believe.

          My experience/observations of US companies here in AU is actually good to work for them. They give the US style of benefits like health cover and better lifestyle benefits than AU companies do, but then you get our 4 weeks leave and not reliant on crappy US style health cover.

    • HighAndDry on 28/02/2019 - 11:58
      +1

      It’s easy to say that folks should toughen up, or just deal with it, when we’re not the ones actually doing the job.

      It's easy to say that companies should pay more, or give better conditions, when you're not the ones actually creating the job.

      Especially hilarious when:

      it’s not exactly surprising that positive reinforcement, decent treatment, and safe working practices lead to more productive workers. A happy worker is a productive worker.

      You say this like you know better than Amazon how to maximise productivity. The people in this thread…

      • BertieBrown on 28/02/2019 - 14:33
        +9

        Some of the people in this thread don’t agree with you, but that’s life, it’s not the end of the world :)

        I’m sorry that you seem aggravated by that, but I know that my opinion is just as valid.

        At any rate, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

        • HighAndDry on 28/02/2019 - 15:07
          -3

          but I know that my opinion is just as valid.

          To any bystanders: This is what leads to anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers.

          No, not all opinions are equally valid.

          • jackspratt on 28/02/2019 - 16:36
            +3

            @HighAndDry:

            No, not all opinions are equally valid.

            That's not what Jawanzar said.

            • HighAndDry on 28/02/2019 - 16:41
              -6

              @jackspratt: They said: "I know that my opinion is just as valid," in the context of defending my contention that Amazon - you know, the company internationally recognised for its supply chain efficiency - might know more about maximising productivity than they do.

  • deelaroo on 27/02/2019 - 22:31
    +2

    Amazon had already been planning to and have announced they are going to make 500 staff full time over the next year. Obviously starting up here they had to have a casual workforce. The benefits seem pretty good and if anything like Amazon US staff will get stock options after a couple of years.

  • lette on 28/02/2019 - 00:07
    +10

    My partner works in a top ten worldwide insurance company that won YET ANOTHER award last week for being a great place to work. He's been there 5 years. They have three of the five Amazon gripes as daily practice.
    Such as:
    where their performance is timed to the second
    they are expected to constantly work at ‘insurance pace’, described as somewhere between talking fast and rushing someone through underwriting
    high-pressure targets make them feel like they can’t go to the toilet; it's called KPIs and personal management!
    Myself as a chef I deal with all FIVE okay so not the last one anymore because I'm the boss. But still.

    I will definitely still be buying from Amazon.

  • modgod on 28/02/2019 - 00:49
    +2

    Those daily practices sounds about right for another big Australian supermarket chain I’m working at albeit not super strict

    All the safety thing is bs just ass covering it’s all about how many cartons you can get out the door

    The part about labour hire team members is all true tho, they get treated like crap but just go on compo once the company give you full time lol

    • HighAndDry on 28/02/2019 - 12:02
      +1

      I love that one of the complaints in the article is that they're penalised for now following safety guidelines set by Amazon.

  • Speckled Jim on 28/02/2019 - 07:56

    This story surprised me.
    Aren't Amazon warehouses fully automated? Did I see that video or was I dreaming?

    Just a matter of time before they're made redundant. Another self-cleaning oven — thanks Patterson!

    • Yuri Lowell on 28/02/2019 - 18:57

      Maybe in America. I've read about robots fetching the items and humans packing them.

  • Brendoo on 28/02/2019 - 07:59
    +6

    Seems like a walk in the park compared to my job. Soon they'll be replaced by robots anyway, that's what was done at our company's warehouse in Sydney 2 years ago. Laid off 95% of the employees due to automated picking and packing robots.

    I read recently that Coles or Woolies are going to do the same at their warehouses.

    If i was those warehouse workers I'd be working on a plan to find another career path, you cannot complete with a robot that works 24x7 without a break.

    • 18t on 28/02/2019 - 18:55
      +2

      This, I think alot of people do not realize how vulnerable their jobs will become due to automation, especially non skilled labour. These jobs probably won't be available in 10 years time. You can actually see it happen in retail right now, where you can self serve at supermarkets, petrol stations and restaurants. When you have the majority of these jobs dry up, you get situations like China where people line up overnight for the opportunity to work in places where conditions are 10x more attrocious than Amazon.

  • HeWhoKnows on 28/02/2019 - 14:12
    +1

    IF OP thinks Amazon is bad they should look into the Woolworths and Coles online packing and shipping centres.
    No differenbt Im afraid.
    And people are expected to work through the night

  • cfuse on 28/02/2019 - 17:20
    +5

    No doubt the same people bitching about this will be bitching even more when all these people are replaced by machines.

    A crap job is still better than no job at all.

  • Cave Fire on 28/02/2019 - 17:38
    +1

    Hmm, spare a thought for the supermarket logistics centre workers. Was way more harder than this. This would be like picking variety all day (the easy light stuff). Looks like they also have some bays at chest level so no bending down constantly. Don't know if the author is expecting amazon to make the story "go away".

  • infinite on 28/02/2019 - 19:26
    +4

    It's a warehouse/factory processing job. What were the people expecting? If your not physically & mentally strong enough to do the job, quit. No one's pointing a gun at any of them.

    I don't think anyone assumes Amazon is even a half-decent employer, but I have no clue why the ABC are going so hard after them. There's no actual evidence their breaking the law or anything. These people are working in better conditions than most other people in the same industry and without a doubt better than anyone at major supermarket distribution centers.

    If the ABC wan't to go after a company treating it's employees and consumers like disposable garbage, shouldn't they be taking a long look in the mirror first?

    • cloudy on 01/03/2019 - 06:06
      +1

      Why does a warehouse worker need to be mentally “strong”, I can see the physical part. But we’re not talking about an elite athlete needing to push his mental barriers to make that last shot.

      • HighAndDry on 01/03/2019 - 10:20

        Mentally strong enough. I agree - it doesn't take a lot of mental fortitude to pick and pack products off a shelf. And yet the article portrays them as being apparently under "so much stress".

    • HeWhoKnows on 03/03/2019 - 15:22
      +2

      Its a well knwn fact that the ABC is full of "Greenies and lefties"

      I hope Ida cleans them out

  • [Deactivated] on 28/02/2019 - 19:43
    -2

    Why do i care? I don't work there.

    If they can keep prices low by cheaping out on workers then good with me

  • burningrage on 28/02/2019 - 20:01
    +6

    Sometimes I think about what Jeff Bezos is doing at that second – what gourmet food he’s eating on which of his boats or jets. And I’m driving away so exhausted, sitting in my beat-up little hot-box in freeway traffic. I think about what I could’ve done that day if I wasn’t desperate to accept every shift.

    “Jeff Bezos has got the most money of any person on Earth. He’s not earning that money. That’s the money we’re making for him.”

    That last piece pretty sums up this is about jealousy. He didnt really need to work there if he felt that way

    • BobCobb on 04/03/2019 - 22:28
      +1

      Yep. He is burning with jealously.

      Sad!

    • Leeroy Jenkins on 06/03/2019 - 13:57

      Yeah, that person with the amazing skills is earning 100,000+ times my salary, and it's unfair, even though I have none of the skills to do his job. The world is soooo unfair!!!

  • nomoneynoproblems on 28/02/2019 - 20:14
    +4

    This is OzBargain. People would sell their soul for a dollar.

    • Godric on 01/03/2019 - 18:41

      I would

  • itsdougie on 01/03/2019 - 01:10

    I can see similarities with working at mcdonalds as a kid

    the workplace is built around a culture of fear where their performance is timed to the second;
    Yes, fulfil orders to get an average under 60secs

    they are expected to constantly work at ‘Amazon pace’, described as somewhere between walking and jogging;
    peak, weekends and full fill was fast paced

    high-pressure targets make them feel like they can’t go to the toilet and sometimes push them to cut safety corners;
    managers and team trainers wondering where you are if you take too long a shit in the dunny. Sometimes the cloth that wiped the dunny got mistakenly used to wipe your table.

    they can be sent home early without being paid for the rest of their shift when orders are completed; and
    for casual this was expected, there was a minimum of 3hrs. if your shift for 8hrs and they sent you home after 4hrs you dont get paid for the remaining 4.

    everyone is employed as a casual and constantly anxious about whether they’ll get another shift.
    Time to look for a new job or go do some study to improve your prospects.

    Amazon is primed to replace people with robots and drones.

    • cloudy on 01/03/2019 - 06:02
      +1

      Amazon is primed to replace people with robots and drones.

      That’s what they keep telling us. I guess it’s a nice little threat to keep us from changing workplace practices.

  • AlienC on 01/03/2019 - 02:31
    +2

    Honestly where do I signup this sounds like the job for me? I like working fast and being cutoff when I am not working anymore.. I am not the kind to really like sitting around doing nothing but being paid for my time and my time only nothing more nothing less.

    As long as it is not Foxconn bad it should be ok for me.

    • cloudy on 01/03/2019 - 06:00
      -1

      Lol, how do you know it’s not Foxconn bad? Usually slippery slopes of Foxconn starts somewhere. Be careful what you wish for.

      • AlienC on 01/03/2019 - 06:12

        True that I may have been day dreaming when writing this comment as per usual.

      • HighAndDry on 01/03/2019 - 17:08

        Because Foxconn workers were literally throwing themselves off the roof. These Amazon workers are just complaining to ABC. Seems to be a bit of a difference there.

        • cloudy on 01/03/2019 - 21:37

          Fair point, but lets not wait until someone throws their life before we care? Or shall we wait for that life first? Shrugs…

          • HighAndDry on 01/03/2019 - 22:05
            +1

            @cloudy: No one is going to commit suicide from working at Amazon, get a grip. This hysteria helps noone. Foxconn workers were working like 48hr shifts or something crazy like that.

            • cloudy on 02/03/2019 - 02:54

              @HighAndDry: Come on, how does anyone that does something extreme start? Both as an individual or as organisation, think about it.

              Career crims who started with no history and pulling their first chocolate bar hiest, or large organisations famous collapses (including employee suicides) due to slight (self perceived )pressure to perform.

  • cloudy on 01/03/2019 - 06:14
    +4

    All I got to say is this is Ozbargain. We want cheap prices and free range eggs. As long as those chickens aren’t in battery cages we don’t care if someone in Bangladesh is getting cooked making cheap 10 cent products delivered to our door, or if someone in China has to wipe clean our phone screens with poison all day long before we buy, or if amazon abuses either labour, taxpayers or both to bring us $1ish deodorant to our door.

  • brendanm on 01/03/2019 - 07:40
    +4

    Wow who would have known that an unskilled warehouse job doesn't pay that well and, god forbid, they actually want people to do a certain amount of work in that time.

    "Scared to take toilet breaks", sounds like typical overblown ABC rhetoric. If they want stress, get a job as a surgeon, anaesthetist, crane operator, truck driver or any of the other jobs that are more stressful and have real world dangers, not just placing things into boxes in a certain timeframe.

    • Zachary on 01/03/2019 - 20:40

      Wow who would have known that an unskilled warehouse job doesn't pay that well and, god forbid, they actually want people to do a certain amount of work in that time.

      If it was unskilled, why are there courses for certificates for warehousing then….? Hell even seen some job adverts for warehousing where they specifically state "YOU MUST HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER TELLING US YOU HAVE THE SKILLS TO BE A WAREHOUSE WORKER" …

      • brendanm on 01/03/2019 - 20:49

        I'm not sure if you are joking. People can make money by offering a warehousing course. If people have done it, employers can assume (often incorrectly), that people will now have the basic skills required to put an item in a box, and stick a shipping label on it.

        A one week course in common sense does not make a job skilled. Years of training makes a job skilled.

        I still can't tell if you were seriously trying to say that warehousing is a skilled job.

        • Zachary on 01/03/2019 - 21:52
          -1

          I'm not sure if you're aware, but I know some people who have done a warehousing cert 3 and they had to do it for a year, not one week as you claim it so…..

          I still can't tell if you were seriously trying to say that warehousing is a skilled job.

          I thought anything that requires a piece of paper (or if there is a course on it, short or long, doesn't matter the duration) to say you can do this, means a skilled action/job?

          First aid has a course and a piece of paper requirement, does that means I can do first aid stuff without a piece of paper telling me that I can actually do it? Yes, putting bandaids on injuries does look pretty easy now that I think about it, who would need to do a full on course just to be a certified first aid officer, hm?

          What about those who drive forklifts? These shouldn't be too hard, there's a steering wheel and some pedals - should be like driving a car….looks simply enough, I bet even a baby can drive one!

          • brendanm on 01/03/2019 - 23:24
            +1

            @Zachary: Haha a forkilt requires a ticket, it's still not a "skilled" job. Anyone can give it a go and learn it in a week or so. I learnt to drive one in the first few days when I changed jobs recently.

            If people need to learn for a year to put something in a box, I'd be quite worried. I suspect you are talking about people who are running a warehouse, not packing the boxes.

            Skilled means you've spent a lot of time learning to do something, and a layperson can't come along and do your job within a month. I can't learn to do open heart surgery on someone in a month, I can't learn to rewire a house in a month, I can't learn fly a helicopter in a month, but I can learn to read a packing slip, and put the item in a box, and stick a shipping label on it, within a very short period of time.

            • Zachary on 02/03/2019 - 23:10

              @brendanm:

              If people need to learn for a year to put something in a box, I'd be quite worried. I suspect you are talking about people who are running a warehouse, not packing the boxes.

              Yeah it was probably the former and not simple packing boxes….but you did say warehouse job, and not packing job……of which the former can be all possible roles in a warehouse that isn't limited to packing….

              • brendanm on 02/03/2019 - 23:31

                @Zachary: Considering the topic at hand, one could safely say it's simply packing…

    • cloudy on 01/03/2019 - 21:34

      To be fair, all the jobs you mentioned that have high stress usually pays well. Comparing a well paying job with high stress and award or below award wage (who knows what one can do sub contracting these days) job isn’t exactly apples with apples as well.

      So let’s call the bias from you and ABC even?

      • brendanm on 04/03/2019 - 23:45

        Packing boxes is low stress and unskilled, so the pay is low. Logic is crazy sometimes isn't it.

        Perceived stress of having to actually do a certain amount of work in a certain amount of time is not the same as the stress on a surgeon when removing a cancer on the brain stem or similar. Noone is dying when your box isn't packed perfectly. A surgeon studies for years and years and pays a lot of money in tuition to do what they do. You can't expect to make huge money in a job that literally anyone can do. You ask for more money, they will replace you with someone else.

        Amazon is making low profit per item. Any person off the street can do the job. I'm sure competition for unskilled work is quite high, so if you want the job, you do it.

        • cloudy on 05/03/2019 - 13:08

          That’s like saying a taxi driver is high stress as you risk people’s lives if you make an error. So should that be high paying? Your logic seems so sound until it’s put into perspective and practice. Are you an academic?

          And I’m not sure anyone at the abc is saying the workers are complaining about making lots of money. They are making the point they can not fulfil their duties without either, skipping all breaks or constantly be on the run, so they can poo without the threat of loss of employment.

          The real question is, is this fair?

          The point about if your low skilled suck it up, if you don’t do it, someone else will may be true. But treating people like disposable toilet paper isn’t good long term business practice is it? It isn’t good publicity is it? It shouldn’t be supported, should it?

          • brendanm on 05/03/2019 - 14:30

            @cloudy: A taxi driver has to make a massive error to put someone's life in danger. If putting a passengers life in danger, it's also extremely likely the drivers life would be in danger as well, people tend to avoid doing that. A surgeon has only to make a minute error. They have many many points during a single procedure where they could kill or disable the patient for life. They have trained for 10 years plus to be able to do this. A taxi driver simply has their licence. I could be a taxi driver tomorrow, it is unskilled.

            If they couldnt fulfill their duties, they would all be being fired. It's likely that the vast majority can complete them just fine, while there is a whining vocal minority who aren't being allowed to have 10 ciggy breaks a day.

            If you agree to the job, and the requirements of you, and the pay, yes it is fair. You can say no.

            It's not good business practice, look at childcare, low pay and a revolving door for staff. However it's just how it works, if you don't like it, there will be 10 other unskilled people waiting to perform your job. This has become even more so with the immigration levels we have.

            No, I am not an academic.

            • cloudy on 05/03/2019 - 20:52

              @brendanm: I am not sure why you say a taxi driver has to make a massive error to put a life in danger. Over 300 deaths in my state every year, multiples more in serious danger on the roads, is thousands don’t speak of the dangers of a 1500kg travelling at speed in which small errors in judgement of angle, conditions etc can lead to injury we clearly have a difference in opinion.

              • brendanm on 05/03/2019 - 23:13

                @cloudy: There are about 1000 road deaths a year, even though people probably take a million trips daily. The taxi driver has to make a massive error, as that is generally what it takes to be in a traffic accident. They are no more or less likely to be in an accident than anyone else with the same amount of time on the road.

                Hopefully you understand that a taxi driver has the same amount of training as you or I, and is therefore in an unskilled job, and is payed as such.

    • BobCobb on 04/03/2019 - 22:30

      It’s unskilled when you can learn the job with 15 minutes training.

  • horsome on 01/03/2019 - 08:55
    +3

    There is and has been far worse then this. Should be grateful that a business like this chose Australia to setup.

    What were these employees doing before Amazon setup here? These guys are learning from the best in the world and the skills will last them a long time.

    Maybe time to revisit the entitlement attitude for some, but for others there is good opportunity to build themselves and their work experience.

  • innov on 01/03/2019 - 10:17
    +2

    These practices are literally in every major warehouse in Australia, this is how Bunnings and Woolworths operate for example.

    The concerns raised by OP are standard supply chain/logistics practices across warehouses and DCs around the world.

  • haemolysis on 01/03/2019 - 10:30
    +1

    Efficient business operation makes me MORE likely to order from them, not less. God I WISH I could enforce the “Amazon pace” concept in my workplace, the slow walkers in the hallways kill me!

    So long as the contracts are voluntary, I really don’t care if the work is tough. Whenever you hear of people being “taken advantage of” the first question you have to ask is: are they on a voluntary contract?

    This is not GENUINE slave labour like we have in some countries. Each of those employees signed up for the role, and they have the ability to leave as they see fit.

    As such - I have zeeeeero concerns about them being taken advantage of. That’s what employment is for. You supply work, the employer supplies cash, and you take advantage of each other’s needs.

  • ZachBlasphemy on 01/03/2019 - 10:32
    +3

    I don't shop there anyways, the only deals worth buying require Prime and if I had prime I'd have to buy more from them to justify having Prime. Plus all the good deals I see are mostly price matches from the big stores. I'd rather buy from the store that lowered the price in the first place.

  • Bullion78 on 01/03/2019 - 13:04

    Explains my broken on arrival 55" which was most likely a dropped pallet.

  • Briefcase Mong on 01/03/2019 - 13:31
    +2

    No mate what's next are you going to start complaining about the things you buy which factory workers earning less than minimum wage ?

  • Tasmaniac on 01/03/2019 - 13:54
    +2

    The minute Amazon started calling their workers Associates I knew everything I needed to know.

  • idonotknowwhy on 01/03/2019 - 13:55
    +1

    This should be a poll.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/03/2019 - 14:03
    +2

    Key point missed - it's via a labour hire company Adecco.

    I'm on the fence on this.

    It's fine for management to set targets, want high performance, results, etc.

    It's not ok to micromanage to the point that you are mentally making your staff fear for their jobs or take risks/lose NES mandated rights to try and achieve proposed targets.

    Nothing will happen unless they union up and start negotiating an EBA or quit en masse.

    • HighAndDry on 01/03/2019 - 17:06
      -1

      If they're taking away NES rights, Amazon would already be breaking the law. Nothing suggests this is the case. As for:

      It's not ok to micromanage to the point that you are mentally making your staff fear for their jobs

      That's subjective. Some people just stress more, or are less productive and have more reason to stress. That's what performance targets are supposed to do.

      • PAOK11 on 02/03/2019 - 14:37
        +1

        Thats exactly what performance targets are supposed to do, make an employee stres. Unless they are getting bonuses they shouldn't be treated like that

        • HighAndDry on 02/03/2019 - 17:11
          -1

          Why shouldn't they have expected performance targets?

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