Who Should Pay for Plumber's Tool Broken during The Process of Unblocking Drain?

L19331211 on 19/02/2019 - 01:20
Last edited 20/02/2019 - 16:24

I called a plumber to unblock a drain. He quoted hourly rate $95 plus gst.

He sent a team of 2 men.

Took 1 hour to unblock the drain but the orger (a whirlpool shape long tool) got stuck in the pipe. Took another hour to pull the orger out.

The invoice detailing:
unblock drain $280, plus
1.5 hourly rate for 2 men = $285, plus
Broken orger $120
Plus GST,
Total $753.50

He explained the $280 to unblock drain covered the first hour labour (in this case 1/2 hour because he sent 2 men). So I have to pay extra 1.5 hours for 2 men labour. And the orger was broken because the block was too stubborn and difficult to unblock, so I have to pay for the damaged tool.

Is it normal practice that a plumber charge customer for tool damaged during the process of unblocking drain? What would be the reasonable costs to unblock a drain?

I am now so grateful that the lawn mower guy didn't ask me to pay for his damaged mower when his mower broken down on my backyard.

Any advice from plumber or tradies would much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Thank you all for your prompt response and advice. I really appreciate it.

Updated:

After I sent the email, he called to explain he didn't overcharge me. The charge for broken auger or tools is a normal practice for all tradies. However, in order to keep me happy, he would refund the auger charge. At the end, he told me not to contact him again, which I will be happily obliged.

Just like to thank you all for the advice and views from different angles. If not for your encouragement, I would not have the strength to ask for a refund.

Thank you all.

Home & Garden Plumber

Comments

    • pais on 19/02/2019 - 19:56
      +1

      You also get unlicensed tradesmen doing the work for you.

      • whooah1979 on 19/02/2019 - 21:09
        +4

        We talking about using a drain snake to remove hairballs. It's not rocket surgery.

        • pais on 19/02/2019 - 22:55
          +1

          Commenter I responded to was getting a pipe replaced, not just plunging a toilet. Definitely wouldn't advise airtasker for anything beyond this.

  • No ONE on 19/02/2019 - 14:03
    +6

    Broken orger $120

    WTF! If it was me, I would have said f!k off. Get your service fee and get the f¿k out of here and never come back. These dodgy mother f**ks would then claim those tool receipts as deduction at tax time.

    • BertieBrown on 19/02/2019 - 15:54
      +2

      Absolutely I agree they would try and use it a tax write off.

      Technically, as the OP bought the new auger, it’s their property if they don’t specify that they are giving to the plumber (such that if a plumber installs parts in your house it then becomes your property), and if the plumber attempted to claim it as a tax deduction it would be tax fraud, which the ATO takes rather seriously.

      • No ONE on 20/02/2019 - 01:07
        +1

        plumber attempted to claim it as a tax deduction it would be tax fraud, which the ATO takes rather seriously.

        It is rather really difficult to proof the fraud unless the customer interven or report to ATO if he/she suspects such fraud would likely occur. It is a different story if ATO follow through.

      • knk on 20/02/2019 - 13:20

        Why wouldn't they deduct it, it's needed for their job and it's a tool they use to bring in money. Assuming OP is charged for new auger, that is reflected as income to them when he's invoiced for it.

        None of this is tax fraud if they're invoicing everything correctly.

        That said, since OP didn't agree to pay for damaged tools or a second man on the job paying labor for 1 man only seems fair.

    • boostpak on 22/02/2019 - 08:36

      that's why tradies in australia have killed it the past 15 years. it's a joke

  • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2019 - 14:06

    Just Incase you're wondering how much others are paying for a job like this where there is an unspecified blockage of a blackwater pipe under concrete.

    I broke concrete by hand (sledgehammer to be pedantic) and removed dirt above and around the pipe where the inspection port and breakage is. Took me a few hours but I was waffling a bit. 2 hours would be fair. If I had a jackhammer would have cut the time in half.

    There was a break in the Y junction so three pipes to be cut and replaced. I got a plumber out. Pipes cut and joined. Got a push plunger and kept pushing the muck from one inspection port to the next (other ports were easily accessed).

    He did it in an hour. About $100 in parts and $140 for call out and labour.

    That's 3 hours. 2 by an idiot (me) and one by a pro. No heavy tools.

    • Yawhae on 19/02/2019 - 15:08
      +1

      I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to prove here.

      • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2019 - 15:46
        +1

        An indication of cost. And I specify it is an indication only because I have no idea what OP's driveway looks like. It is up to OP to see what is relatable.

        You're a tradie, I completely understand the defensive stance.

        • Yawhae on 19/02/2019 - 16:24
          +3

          I'm not trying to be defensive. I just don't see this as relative. You put a lot of your own time and effort in to get the job done and the plumber was happy to step in and do the actual plumbing work whilst avoiding the digging.

          I would bet for OP's plumber $280 is a pretty standard rate to unblock a pipe, if the plumber specifically mentioned this covers the first hour of work only then that plumber has covered his ass if it takes longer. I don't agree with the way the plumber invoices, especially with the Auger charge. This also leads it's self to bill shock as the customer should have been told what was going to be extra (and why) before it was invoiced.

          • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2019 - 16:37
            +1

            @Yawhae: Fair enough.

            I reckon the plumber can dig faster hence why I specified my time to be a better indication.

            So, back on topic, if I can dig holes at that speed, the $280 plumber better dig holes better. Yes, he can set his price but this guy definitely ain't worth his asking price, let alone the extra time and "bits" tagged on.

      • tomsco on 19/02/2019 - 15:52

        Sometimes it's worth calling an expert?

        • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2019 - 16:44
          +1

          Oh yeah. I watched the plumber work his magic. I was wondering how on Earth am I going to exhume the pipes.

          He just chopped on the Y, measure measure measure, clamp clamp clamp, done. In the time he took to finish the job, I'd still be scratching my arse.

  • cashless on 19/02/2019 - 14:33
    +2

    Tell the plumber to take your drain to court and sue it. The drain after all was the aggressor in this situation by deliberately breaking that poor auger.
    Say some sympathetic words to the plumber but make sure you give him the contact details for your drain so he knows where to find it when it doesn't show up in court.

  • Tech5 on 19/02/2019 - 15:04
    +3

    (profanity) that. If all he quoted was 95 per hour, and that was seriously all he said… Then you owe him $95 for the 1 hour they were there for. That is it. You shouldn't even be paying that much for the unblock fee, let alone equipment breakage.

    What if he pulled his whole extended family out. Would it be 95 multiplied by x family members per hour?

    • Yawhae on 19/02/2019 - 15:16
      -3

      If it took two blokes 1 hour then it clearly isn't 1 hour of work, it is two. If it takes 95 people 1 hour then that's 95 hours of work. Just because it doesn't sound right doesn't mean the math doesn't work out.

      • Tech5 on 19/02/2019 - 15:23
        +4

        Does a Job that takes 1 person 2 hours necessarily mean it will take 2 people 1 hour? At some point I am sure there would be diminishing returns

        • Yawhae on 19/02/2019 - 15:29
          +2

          Yes and No, but I'm sure we could both agree that 2 people would be able to get something done faster than 1. Especially if one person is muddy in the hole and the other can fetch tools, equipment, cut materials ect without the other person needing to clean up.

          I'm not saying 2 tradesmen = 1hr and 1 tradesmen = 2. Sometimes it can be slower or faster than twice the speed. In my job, without an additional person it would take 3 times longer at best to complete some of the work I do. Therefore if I don't take another person the customer in turn ends up paying more.

  • trapper on 19/02/2019 - 15:25
    +1

    What did they actually quote you?

    You shouldn't be charged for some tool they broke. Also doesn't seem reasonable for you to be charged extra while they mucked around recovering the broken tool.

  • BertieBrown on 19/02/2019 - 15:50
    +1

    Nope, definitely would not be paying for the auger, or replacement of any ordinary tools of the trade. If a plumber had to hire an excavator, for instance, they’d usually tack that on to your quote, as it’s an additional charge to carry out the job, but if a tool is broken on the job the plumber should be replacing it out of their own pocket. Even if the job is more difficult than they expected, they may charge more for the job to be carried out, but that’s on them for not considering that in the quote, usually.

    If a plumber broke their vice grips, or their spanner, you wouldn’t be paying for its replacement, it’s just not the done thing.

    Sure, the plumber can ask if you’d be willing to pay for their auger, but it’s a knock to their rep IMO (as in who would want to use them afterwards), and it’s not really a reasonable expectation I don’t think.

  • Pantagonist on 19/02/2019 - 16:56
    +4

    I work for myself and would never invoice a client for broken tools or machinery.

    My hourly rate changes depending on the job, the tools / machinery I use and the budget for tool wear and tear is built into those hourly rates.

  • lltravel on 19/02/2019 - 17:33
    +1

    lol what a scammer

    Def dont pay for the broken tool

    He quoted 95 per hour thats it. You pay only the hourly rate.

    Sounds like they are trying to play you.

  • T1OOO on 19/02/2019 - 18:33
    +1

    Tell ‘em their dreamen’

  • MelCheapo on 19/02/2019 - 18:47
    +1

    Forget just paying the bill, you should give them a tip!

    …here's one:

    Buy quality tools, use them properly and repair or replace them when they're worn!

  • aussieprepper on 19/02/2019 - 19:15
    +1

    Far out lucky mechanics that use Snapon tools don't charge for breakages lol.

    I don't work in this field i work in Machining/Electronics field and to me my tools are a consumable item. I will have a whinge if i break stuff but i know nothing last forever.
    Some of my better tools have a life time warranty. Some times you need to use the analogy buy once cry once

  • chumlee on 19/02/2019 - 19:23
    +1

    How can the plumber be sure the auger wasn't damaged due to his employees negligence?

    Did the plumber keep the auger in good condition?

    How does he store/transport the auger?

    I would be asking him these questions

  • AEKaBeer on 19/02/2019 - 19:38
    +1

    Definitely can't charge for the tool, it's a cost of doing business.

    The labour costs could go either way but it really depends on your agreement. Do you have the quote in writing?

  • BumbaT on 19/02/2019 - 19:53
    +2

    Show them this thread op. We have your back.

    • 19331211 on 19/02/2019 - 19:57

      Haha, good idea! Thanks.

  • xavster on 19/02/2019 - 20:56
    +1

    Just had my kitchen drain unblocked, plumber + apprentice, used the water jet, took about 30 minutes all up.

    Total cost was $350 inc GST

    Location: Sydney, north shore

    This was a difficult job because there was a gully involved and I couldn't clear the blockage with my own hand held auger.
    I recommend you buy a hand held auger from Bunnings to clear small blockages at home.

  • Seni0r El Cheapo on 19/02/2019 - 22:42

    So. What happened? How is it going now?

    • 19331211 on 20/02/2019 - 00:34

      The term is full payment on completion of job. So I paid on that day. To be fair, I am going to send him an email, explain I should not have to pay the broken auger. So he can have a chance to reply before I contact fair trading and/or QBCC (queensland building and construction commission).

      • Seni0r El Cheapo on 20/02/2019 - 12:11
        +1

        Good luck. Keep us posted. Would love him see shaat in his pants and you getting your money back.

  • Traveller107 on 20/02/2019 - 01:55
    +1

    The problem is people agreeing to hire and pay trades by the hour. Always ensure you get them to quote fixed price for the job and if someone is hesitant or declines that should ring alarm bells coz they are either not experienced enough to know how long it would take and what's involved or they are very slow workers who will milk you dry if they don't have other jobs.
    I learnt around 8 years ago when I hired an electrician to rewire a house on rates.. He was very slow and made 9 trips and wanted to charge me for each one including travel from gold Coast to brissy. Wanted payment for those 9 days and materials with nothing to show for it. I fired him and took him to master builders only to find out he did a runner with many peoples money nowhere to be found.
    I hired a different electrician on fixed quote who spent the first half of day 1 undoing the first blokes shoddy work and spent another two days doing the entire rewiring job plus additional work near the pool area. Invoice and payment complete on day 3 and this electrician has rewired many properties for me in the last few years always at fixed prices and is a top bloke.
    Same goes for all my other contractors. Always get fixed quotes and run from those who can't provide fixed written quotes.

  • callum54 on 20/02/2019 - 03:38
    +1

    In no way shape or form is this meant to be derogatory or rude: your English is very good but it doesn't sound native. I'm assuming you're foreign and they're trying to take advantage of you due to this. It's very wrong of them. Don't let them take advantage of you because you aren't originally from this culture. I could be wrong but instinct is telling me this.

    • 19331211 on 20/02/2019 - 10:10

      Your instinct is right. I wasn't born in Australia but I consider myself a real Aussie. I don't think he was taking advantage of me because of my cultural background, though.

    • echineon on 21/02/2019 - 09:36

      Can I ask how you figured that out? Lack of profanity? Just genuinely curious. I speak 3 languages and despite English is my 3rd language, it is my day to day language for the last 20 years now but I can't distinguish the difference between native and non-native.

      • brendanm on 21/02/2019 - 11:28
        +1

        "despite English is my 3rd language" would be "despite English being my 3rd language" if a native English speaker wrote it. Also "it is my day to day language for 20 years now" would be "it has been my day to day language for 20 years now". It's the little things.

        • echineon on 21/02/2019 - 13:24

          I see, thanks. I guess I don't engage in self-correcting mode often enough. Naughty. :)

          • brendanm on 21/02/2019 - 17:31
            +1

            @echineon: No worries, your English is probably better than a lot of native speakers so I wouldn't be too worried :)

        • enzioFirenze on 21/02/2019 - 15:29

          I don't agree with this, some of the native English speakers can be way worse than non-native English speakers with respect to strictly adhering to grammar rules

          • brendanm on 21/02/2019 - 17:30

            @enzioFirenze: It's not really grammar in this case, more not understanding the correct words for past and present tense in this case, it's not exactly simple.

            Native English speakers sure can have terrible grammar, there are just certain things that ESL people do, doesn't mean they are terrible at English or grammar.

      • callum54 on 28/02/2019 - 04:41

        I studied linguistics for 3 years. Like with other comments, even if the grammar was perfect, it's simply put down to not saying things as a native speaker would say them. Discourse.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/02/2019 - 08:50
    +4

    The plumber is scamming you. The biggest problem is you’ve already paid. Your chance of getting a fair outcome and your money back is greatly diminished. I would stop being polite and go straight to fair trading.

    • 19331211 on 20/02/2019 - 10:13
      +1

      Be polite and be firm. I will still give him a chance to do the right thing. That's the Aussie way to solve the problem.

      • [Deactivated] on 20/02/2019 - 10:34
        +4

        I think you're seeing the country through rose tinted glasses.

        We are notorious for phoenix companies. They start up a legally legitimate business, exploit suppliers, employees and customers and when poo poo starts hitting the fan, they declare bankruptcy and restart as a different company. Hence the moniker phoenix.

        There isn't an Aussie specific way to solve problems. We are not inherently better at solving anything and we're definitely no better when comparing to our peers.

        The best way is to prevent.
        1. Have a wide scope of general knowledge.
        2. Get a quote or a written estimate before you accept.
        3. Read before you sign.
        4. Ensure the bill is correct before you pay.
        5. Check the quality and compliance of the job and take remedial actions (where necessary) ASAP.

        Now that you've paid, you won't see your money again. Fight or no fight.

  • John on 20/02/2019 - 09:52
    +2

    I've met a few horrible plumbers. Just absolutely horrible, they are only a plumber because they are good at flushing people's money down the pipe… so when you found a really good one, keep his number and pray to God he never quit his trade!

  • Lexan on 20/02/2019 - 10:06
    +1

    He better not to keep his damaged tool and use it to scam another customer.

  • SupeNintendoChalmers on 20/02/2019 - 10:28
    +2

    If my laptop dies will I'm fixing a customers issue, I don't charge them for a new laptop.

  • geoffs87 on 20/02/2019 - 11:24
    +3

    Had a sparky round the other day installing aircon - he drilled through a hot water pipe.

    He couldnt have known the pipe was there, and was about to call a plumber, luckily i know a plumber, who did a quick cashy to sort it out for me.

    The sparky told me whatever the cost for the plumber was to let him know and he'll deduct from the invoice.

    There are some good tradies, and as you've experienced, there are some bad ones!

  • Topdog on 20/02/2019 - 12:42
    +1

    Tell him to get (profanity), just pay for the labour

  • Name on 20/02/2019 - 14:10
    +1

    Did you already pay?

    Also be sure to keep this thread updated on the outcome! keen to hear what the plumber comes back with.

    • 19331211 on 20/02/2019 - 14:21

      Yes. I paid. Because his term is "full payment upon completion of job". I would be in the wrong if I withhold the payment. I have already sent him an email.

      • SnoozeAndLose on 20/02/2019 - 15:54
        +1

        Did you pay the full amount? if yes then you hardly able to get the money back.

        even they deemed to be at fault they can drag it as long as possible until you go to NCAT and obtain an order to withhold and withdrawn his money which it very length and teething process.

      • Make it so on 20/02/2019 - 16:35
        +1

        full payment upon completion of job

        That is not a blank cheque for them to send any number of people of their choosing, and take any amount of time. He should have provided an estimate for how long it takes. And this is the first time I hear of a plumber sending a team of 2 people to unblock something. How can 2 people even perform this work simultaneously? And obviously you should not pay for their tools, or otherwise every tradie would have a tools surcharge. What if their car breaks down on your driveway, do you have to pay for that too?

        If they were certified plumbers, you have grounds for a serious complaint. But I would speak with your local Fair Trading department ASAP. Do not let them steal from you like this.

  • McFly on 20/02/2019 - 14:59
    +2

    He quoted hourly rate $95 plus gst.
    He sent a team of 2 men.
    Took 1 hour to unblock the drain…

    Stop right there.
    Total cost to you is $190+GST. End of story.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 20/02/2019 - 15:41

    No… Tell them to get f

    • Daabido on 20/02/2019 - 15:57
      +3

      It loses a bit of its venom when he has already paid them.

  • porsche804 on 20/02/2019 - 17:21
    +1

    When I was a mechanic, I wish I could have charged customers for broken tools. So many torx bits snapped, snapped breaker bar, socket split. But of course you cannot charge for broken tools

  • 19331211 on 20/02/2019 - 17:44
    +4

    Thank you all for your advice and the encouragement. I felt it would be a right thing to ask for a refund. The plumber has now agreed to refund the charge for the broken auger.
    Thank you all.

    • SnoozeAndLose on 20/02/2019 - 18:42
      +1

      So what is the total payment you have made?

      • 19331211 on 20/02/2019 - 18:44

        After the refund, $621.5

        • brendanm on 21/02/2019 - 12:13
          +1

          So you still payed for them to remove their own broken auger?

          • 19331211 on 21/02/2019 - 13:56

            @brendanm: Yes. The time they spent pulling out the auger ($95 x 2 men x 1 hour) has been paid.

          • ahara on 21/02/2019 - 18:34
            +1

            @brendanm: I would not be surprised if OP finds out some months down the track that they may have damaged the pipe while trying to remove the auger…

            Have you considered that risk OP?

        • ahara on 21/02/2019 - 18:32
          +1

          Did you pay cash? Do you have an itemized invoice?
          See my comment below why that may be relevant if you wish to pursue this further.

          • 19331211 on 23/02/2019 - 01:20

            @ahara: I transferred the money. The invoice was itemized. Fingers crossed that the pipe was not damaged.

  • bhm133 on 20/02/2019 - 19:03
    +1

    However, in order to keep me happy, he would refund the auger charge. At the end, he told me not to contact him again, which I will be happily obliged.

    Typical difficult tradie response. Sorry you had a bad experience OP. Unfortunately, it may not be your last if you employ another one. Good tradesmen are few and far between with many having the EQ of a two year older toddler.

    Apologies in advance to the good tradies on ozbargain.

  • TonyRancid on 20/02/2019 - 19:29
    +2

    I'ld still get in touch with fair trading, its not hard to do.
    As soon as they get in touch with the plumber, he'ld likely refund you the extra charges.
    Your call, but thats the sort of thing fair trading are there for!
    I can't understand why people are reluctant to use them.

  • gstfree on 20/02/2019 - 20:06
    +1

    The person who benefits from rewards of ownership of the tools should be paying for the tools. In this case it's obviously the tradies.

  • Gauntlet on 20/02/2019 - 22:55
    +1

    Dodgy and plumbing go hand in hand! It's a joke. A popular plumbing retailer have a tagline up in their stores that say "Doctors cure disease, Plumbers prevent it." What a crock, literally comparing Doctors and Plumbers. I guess they get paid in similar amounts so I guess it's not all unfair.

  • h0mbre on 21/02/2019 - 05:43
    +2

    What a joke, I'm happy to see they refunded you that portion.

    For what its worth, I had to call a local plumber (that I've never used before) to unblock a drain on one of my sites earlier this week. The cost was $450 and he was there for 4-5 hours however similarly to you, part of his snake broke and he had to go get it fixed. He only charged for 2 hours (including callout) though and did not charge me for the extra hours he was messing around nor for the broken equipment.

    This price was still too high but my regular maintenance plumber was busy and I needed this drain unblocked ASAP. My regular plumber would've charged around 300 cash.

    I have never heard of a tradesman trying to charge the client for wear and tear of equipment, this is completely dishonest.

  • SKiZO on 21/02/2019 - 11:32
    +2

    This is disgusting! Name and shame!
    OzB flood him!

    For reference, a blocked drain at my house (flooded bathroom) was $120 in gst.
    Only took the 1 x old bloke 30min though.

  • echelon6 on 21/02/2019 - 13:16
    +1

    auger

    pay for his time but not for his tools

  • Danger on 21/02/2019 - 13:42

    Orger is typically used in Orgies

  • curtturtle on 21/02/2019 - 14:59
    +2

    Name and shame these scammers before others get scammed. Tools are not your problem. If they were a tradie would buy a new tool, do the job, break it and get you to reimburse them.

  • funnysht on 21/02/2019 - 17:32
    +2

    havent seen a how many plumbers to unblock a drain joke yet….well here it goes..2, one to scam you, the other to watch.

  • ahara on 21/02/2019 - 18:31
    +1

    A couple of points for your consideration and investigation (if you wish to)

    • VBA is responsible to audit plumbing work and can advise on reasonable cost
    • PLumber needs to issue certificate of compliance with VBA for work over $750
    • VBA can audit plumbing completed post certificate of compliance issued and instruct plumber to rectify (rectification notice)
    • fair trading office most likely will direct you to VBA

    Note: just realized you’re in Brisbane, but I assume there is a similar authority like the Victorian Building Authority in your state that can help.

  • cantstanzya on 21/02/2019 - 19:08
    +2

    The charge for broken auger or tools is a normal practice for all tradies.

    Lol I must have missed that one when I got my plumbing ticket.

  • TanTheMan on 21/02/2019 - 21:06
    +1

    Looks like this invoice was made by a person who did not send out the quote, like an apprentice or graduate or someone like that with no experience. It may have been an honest mistake. Did you call them to double check with the boss maybe? The person you spoke to, was he the boss? Maybe the invoice wasn't checked before it went out?

    If they believe this is correct, then yeah they are ripping you off.

    • 19331211 on 21/02/2019 - 22:03

      I only spoke to the boss. He quoted me on the phone and sent his son and another men to come and did the work. The boss then emailed the invoice to me. He told me it's normal practice to charge customer for broken tools.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2019 - 22:46
    +1

    The charge for broken auger or tools is a normal practice for all tradies.

    No it's not. Report him to Fair Trading.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2019 - 23:08
    +1

    It's almost certainly unlawful to seek to charge for broken tools.

    I'd take it up with the outfit that licenced him, and tell him so.

    Go for their licence every time. Really captures their attention.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2019 - 23:26

    The Tool should pay for his own tools …

  • brad1-8tsi on 22/02/2019 - 10:06
    +1

    When I was a mechanic the cost of my tools (consumables, personal hand tools and major workshop equipment) was all in my overhead and part of my hourly rate.

    Unless the auger was brand new out of the box that day then it's been paid for a dozen times already.

    The plumber doesn't appear to be very good at communicating what his original quote covered and where any extra costs would be.

    None of the maths add up for the labour charges so I won't even go there but it appears the plumber is gouging. I wouldn't bother chasing the money but I'd do my utmost to leave some bad reviews to warn people.

    If it's any consolation, I had a blocked drain about 8 years ago and my neighbour (a plumber) charged me $300 cash and I helped him do the job. Given the smell and what came out of the drain, I thought plumbers somewhat underpaid.

  • clover on 22/02/2019 - 23:44
    +1

    I ran into the same situation as the OP. The job took 2 hours. The snakes got stuck inside the drain. The plumber couldn't get them out after mucking around for 4 hours. He had to came back the next day to dig a hole, cut off the pipe and retrieved them. In my case there were 4 of them got stuck in the pipe. Not sure if he charged the extra time but the cost was 450.

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