Does OzBargain Have a Toxic Culture?

[Deactivated] on 20/12/2018 - 07:59
Last edited 20/12/2018 - 08:48

You wake up, wash your face, replace the old water and turn on your kettle, etc… and click on your Ozbargain reading tab. When you open the highlighted forums located below the highlighted deals for the day, you are met with an array of forums titled from, ‘best new car under $60,000’ to ‘advice for my ailing investment property.’ You soon begin to realise that the forum is buzzing with activity simply due to the plethora of sly and sarcastic comments from users who reply to with criticism, such as, ‘why are you on this website if you’ve got 60k to drop on a new car?

All in all. is it possible maintain a positive environment within forums or at least keep advice forums, a place where legitimate advice is shared? This forum is intended to advocate for positivity, rather than rant about online users.
Since this is a discussion, by all means share your opinions whilst remaining respectful of each other.

Site Discussion

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 20/12/2018 - 08:09
    +27

    Does OzBargainer Have a Toxic Culture?

    Yes.

    • D C on 20/12/2018 - 11:00

      Yes.

      F.U, does not.

      What knuckle-dragging dribbling moron thinks that? Where's your proof?

    • Scrooge McDuck on 20/12/2018 - 11:00
      +16

      I disagree. It depends on the thread. Some OPs are quite silly, others are sensible. But across all the forums, most of the comments are positive.

      When you ask a question in public, you should expect the full gamut of opinions in response. We're not an echo chamber and that's a good thing! Reading, analysing and replying to comments you don't agree with, provides the same opportunities to learn as the ones you do. Sometimes more, since contrary opinions challenge readers.

      The outlook of the reader makes a lot of difference. If you're looking for negativity that's probably what you'll find.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/12/2018 - 18:49

        Thanks for your wisdom

    • HighAndDry on 20/12/2018 - 11:11

      At least the upvotes provide an easy-to-access list of sensitive users…

      • bargaino on 31/12/2018 - 15:18

        They have been added to my Snowflake database :-)

        I wonder if these are the same people who put so many negs on posts, just because they disagree? Or are they victims of that?

        I like the free and frank exchange of opinions (preferably with a decent argument given in support) that comes with anonymous web forums. In real life, people are less honest.

        You get the occasional personal attack, but I think the conversation here is usually respectful of people, if not ideas. And that is good.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/12/2018 - 08:13
    +13

    What sort of sh!t post is this? :-)

    BTW

    gardennome

    gardengnome

    • [Deactivated] on 20/12/2018 - 08:51
      +3

      My apologies allow me to place all blame on windows vista spellcheck

      • Wystri Warrick on 20/12/2018 - 09:31
        +1

        Windows Vista! Checks out!

      • Scrooge McDuck on 20/12/2018 - 11:04
        +1

        Spell checkers don't generally work on concatenated words.

      • Zachary on 21/12/2018 - 15:20

        I don't think the operating system itself has a spellchecker, its the browser or whatever you used to type that thread post with…..

  • Nalar on 20/12/2018 - 08:25
    +3

    Yes

  • Topdog on 20/12/2018 - 08:27
    -8

    GO AND GET (profanity) :P

  • tranter on 20/12/2018 - 08:28
    +2

    Yes.

    More work needs to be done by site admins and mods to address it.

  • loropy9 on 20/12/2018 - 08:34
    +16

    Whatever online forum you are on, expect it to be a mere reflection of the real world. Only without the normal social behaviour inhibitors and brakes that people instinctively apply when talking in person.

  • Donaldhump on 20/12/2018 - 08:36
    +11

    Stop being so sensative, you can't even look at someone now without hararassing them.

    Please don't neg this as it hurts my feelings

    • [Deactivated] on 20/12/2018 - 08:41
      +13

      sensative

      sensitive you muppet

      • Donaldhump on 20/12/2018 - 08:46
        -2

        Who the hell needs to spell properly

        • HighAndDry on 20/12/2018 - 09:40
          +7

          Blame windows Vista.

        • [Deactivated] on 21/12/2018 - 12:45

          Is that a question? Stay in school uncle.

          • Donaldhump on 21/12/2018 - 12:51
            -1

            @[Deactivated]: no hence why it does not have a question mark. Ironic. No need to stay in school, i earn quite good money working 32 hours a week, which only really involves about 6 hours work.

            • Zachary on 21/12/2018 - 15:23

              @Donaldhump: Only good paying jobs that doesn't require staying in school would be trade assistants……they get paid like $50 an hr for some of them doing intensive hard labouring or dirty/unhealthy work…..

              • Donaldhump on 21/12/2018 - 15:51

                @Zachary: i never said staying in school was a bad idea!!!!! i said no need for me to stay in school, despite my bad spelling. i fly planes for a living i can spell what i need to spell, i can do something not many people can, can do the required maths for the job, and it pays well….very well.

                and for the record i have a masters degree, irrelevant to my job, but still have one, despite my terrible spelling of certain bigger words

                • Zachary on 21/12/2018 - 15:56

                  @Donaldhump: …dont u need to like play lots of flight sim games(or maybe not even these sim games but do an actual school course to fly a plane? which im guessing requires you to play these flight sim games?) to even have enough experience to fly a plane?

                  • Donaldhump on 21/12/2018 - 15:59

                    @Zachary: what are you asking here? whether i had to have 1500+ flying hours to become a commercial pilot and flight simulator training?

                    • Zachary on 21/12/2018 - 20:54

                      @Donaldhump: Well yeah…unless you just somehow got the job without any prior training? It's like driving car - gotta learn how to drive a car first whether in a sim game or taking actual lessons in an actual car….before being a taxi/uber driver….

                      So you're saying I could straight up apply to be a plane pilot and they would take me then? How much is the pay on average as a pilot? Prhaps I could try get a job as a plane pilot…and see what that's like….

                      • Donaldhump on 21/12/2018 - 21:47
                        +1

                        @Zachary: First up you need solid maths skills, and general logic skills, spelling not so important of words like sensitive.

                        Do the Air Force aptitude test

                        I don’t have much knowledge in the requirements as they change a lot

                        You either pay for your own training which has no requirement other than 15/16+ years of age and some $$ and get recreational license through aviation exams, and flying tests. do some solo flying in light aircraft <1.5 tonne. get more hours up on your own do some flight simulator experience, then find an airline that has minimal hours requirements to fly commercially as an officer.. You will find mining towns, outback pilot jobs, crop spraying jobs, png, Fiji etc May be best options to do this.

                        or you can get a traineeship with a budget airline like Jetstar tiger, Ryanair (god knows how) where you may have to pay a bond like 100k, they teach you, you then get paid bugger all like 40k a year all till you pay it off over 5 years, and get your bond back, or you pay it out. This is rich people in life who have the money up front.

                        Some airlines offer cadet ships which is same as above but no bond, but I think you would still have to pay it out if your broke your contract

                        Or you join Air Force, which is a good option, get a degree, license, and experience in return for small wage, but good pension.

                        Bigger Airlines like Qatar , qantas require a bachelor degree in maths, physics . Aviation or engineering.

                        Wage depends on rank and airline. Jetstar pay less qantas pay more etc.

                        First officer is 75k+
                        Captain 175K+

                        Also get overtime, travel allowance, bonuses, housing allowance. free education for children etc. tax free in some places

                        Your body ages. Your never home, you need a tolerant wife,

                        No you have to pay for your own training like doing a degree. You pay for lessons

                        You then have to find a crap pilot job somewhere crap with a crap low paying airline, to get your hours up , like

                        • Scrooge McDuck on 22/12/2018 - 01:45

                          @Donaldhump:

                          Your body ages. Your never home, you need a tolerant wife,

                          Or no wife.

                        • Zachary on 22/12/2018 - 13:14

                          @Donaldhump: SO yeah you do still need to stay in school and do the relevant courses to be a pilot….

                          • Donaldhump on 23/12/2018 - 08:31

                            @Zachary: Again, I never said staying in school was not important. I said no need for me to go to school in regards to my spelling as i Already earn a salary I doubt I would ever eclipse.

                            • Zachary on 23/12/2018 - 20:19

                              @Donaldhump: …that's not what this says:

                              No need to stay in school, i earn quite good money working 32 hours a week, which only really involves about 6 hours work.

                              Which to me says you don't need to go to school because you earn good money working 32 hrs a week which really is only 6 hrs because flying a plane doesn't require my full concentration.

                              If you had said what you said here in the beginning:

                              no need for me to go to school in regards to my spelling as i Already earn a salary I doubt I would ever eclipse.

                              Then yes this conversation line would have had not existed…..heh….therefore you kinda do need to know how to spell and type correct grammar or else they may lead to unintended interpretations…..as was the case here….

                              • Donaldhump on 23/12/2018 - 21:24
                                -1

                                @Zachary: Ok

                                My spelling sucks I don’t care, I earn 250k a year (happy to email you a picture) and have done for 30 plus year taking inflation into account. I have a master degree in data science, and an engineering degree. So I actually can spell. Occasionally spelling an incorrect word on ozbargan is not that important to Me.

                                I clearly wasted my time explaining how to be a pilot as you have no interest you just want to argue.

                                You would beat me in a spelling test. But I can do something 1 in 10000 people can do and that is why I will always have a 200k job.

                                What education do you have and what do you do.

                                I could literally pay you 50 bucks an hour for 50 hours. Week to spell my ozbargain posts and you would froth in your jocks and i would still save money that week.

                                Also you stated you need to go to school to earn good money, well 2 examples

                                My wife left school in grade 10 and earns over 120k

                                My brother left school in grade 10 and gets 900 a day doing it contracting.

                                You clearly are very immature and lacking in life experience. You probrsbly still sleep in a single bed in your mums house.

                                • Zachary on 25/12/2018 - 19:16

                                  @Donaldhump:

                                  I earn 250k a year (happy to email you a picture)

                                  Why don't you share that here with all of us? Just blank out your real name on your payslip if you don't want to be identified here…..or better yet, replace it with unclesnake as your real name for consistency so we don't get huge blank gaps that look out of place…..

                                  So I actually can spell. Occasionally spelling an incorrect word on ozbargan is not that important to Me.

                                  Ah so you can spell….good I guess I was being trolled then….so much for feeding trolls….but it was fun typing to you anyways… ☺ I actually have nothing better to do on a Christmas day, besides playing video games, streaming movies/shows/cartoons/animu and grinding steam trading cards and flipping them back onto the market for cents…only to buy some other cards back that are more expensive than the ones I grinded to flip back just to make a badge to show for my steam profile….below average sustainability, but it works….without me intervening with external funds….

                                  I clearly wasted my time explaining how to be a pilot as you have no interest you just want to argue.

                                  I only brought it up coz you made it look easy to get it…..and so I wanted to confirm by typing that out for you…..

                                  You would beat me in a spelling test.

                                  Nah, I'm actually pretty bad at spelling, it's only thanks to Firefox's spell/grammar check that I am able to type correctly and fluently here…..and I guess a bit of googling too if the auto-correct doesn't look right…

                                  So if we were to meet up and have a spelling bee contest without the assistance of google or spell checker, you might actually beat me…..considering you have at least 50 years under your belt…and me being much younger…

                                  What education do you have and what do you do.

                                  I don't have anything and not currently doing anything right now either…lol

                                  I could literally pay you 50 bucks an hour for 50 hours. Week to spell my ozbargain posts and you would froth in your jocks and i would still save money that week.

                                  I'm sure more qualified people than me would jump on that….

                                  My wife left school in grade 10 and earns over 120k

                                  What the hell does she do?? hahaha

                                  My brother left school in grade 10 and gets 900 a day doing it contracting.

                                  He must be a tradie…what sort of trade does he do?

                                  You clearly are very immature and lacking in life experience. You probrsbly still sleep in a single bed in your mums house.

                                  Actually, yes you guessed right! Congrats man you win! But on a serious note, if housing was free or cheaper, I would be living in my own house by now…and on a nice massive comfy king size bed, yeah!

                                  ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠

                                • Zachary on 01/01/2019 - 03:06

                                  @Donaldhump: No reply UncleSnake?

                      • Scrooge McDuck on 22/12/2018 - 01:43

                        @Zachary:

                        It's like driving car - gotta learn how to drive a car first whether in a sim game or taking actual lessons in an actual car….before being a taxi/uber driver….

                        Which world do you live in!? o_0

                        uh-oh, sharp turn coming up! better slam it into 1st at full throttle and ram other cars up against the wall…

                        So you're saying I could straight up apply to be a plane pilot and they would take me then?

                        Yeah dude, it's just like motorcycle licensing. You pass a flyer knowledge test, they give you an L-plate to stick on the back of the plane and see how you go…

                        • Zachary on 22/12/2018 - 13:20

                          @Scrooge McDuck:

                          Which world do you live in!? o_0

                          Isn't that how it's done now…? No…?

                          uh-oh, sharp turn coming up! better slam it into 1st at full throttle and ram other cars up against the wall…

                          Usually you drop down to 2nd or third if you're going 80km/hr for that turn…..to slow down and also add brakes too…..and watch out for other cars so you don't ram them up against the wall……

                          Plus the only sharp 90 degree turns are at T-Junctions….and you would see them a mile away anyways….

                          Yeah dude, it's just like motorcycle licensing. You pass a flyer knowledge test, they give you an L-plate to stick on the back of the plane and see how you go…

                          Well yeah that could work, just have the instructor behind watching you fly the plane………and talking to you via radio……if it's a one seater and thus no room for the instructor to sit….

                • Scrooge McDuck on 22/12/2018 - 01:33

                  @Donaldhump: What aircraft have you flown and what were your tertiary majors?

      • BOGOF on 20/12/2018 - 11:17

        Muppet you Muppet

    • HighAndDry on 20/12/2018 - 10:20
      +5

      That's actually what gets me. The same people whining that "Oh no, people aren't being nice!" are the same ones happy to slag off people they disagree with, they just want to restrict others being able to disagree with them. Zero self awareness, zero consistency.

      • Zachary on 21/12/2018 - 15:27

        Some people just don't have self awareness just like some people don't have common sense or courtesy……..until they are being challenged… I may even be one of said people…

  • russianhacker on 20/12/2018 - 08:42
    +13

    Yes.

    I posted items I saw on clearance at a department store. I was then flooded with replies telling me things such as; I need to count up the stock to ensure that there are 20+ available before I post, I should check that they are available at at least 5 stores nationally before posting…and it went on.

    Following this terrible experience I stopped posting. I don't think that many users comprehend that attacking new posters will only mean that less people will be willing post which will lead to less deals! Sure, I accept that a certain level of quality assurance should be in place so that this website won't be inundated with useless information but this should be balanced out against maintaining a pleasant and supportive community.

    Step 1: be nicer to new posters who may make small errors
    Step 2: ???
    Step 3: profit

    • dasher86 on 20/12/2018 - 08:48
      +7

      Users, especially new users should read deal posting guidelines.

      • tranter on 20/12/2018 - 08:57
        +7

        Yes, but jamie's experience is all too common on here, it happens all the time. There is a problem.

        • dasher86 on 20/12/2018 - 08:59
          +5

          It happens all the time because users don't real the deal posting guidelines.

          • tranter on 20/12/2018 - 09:01
            +4

            @dasher86: It tells me a lot about you when you blame people's rude and attacking behaviour on somebody else.

            • dasher86 on 20/12/2018 - 09:04
              +4

              @tranter: I wasn't condoning rudeness but I was saying it would happen a lot less if user read the deal posting guidelines and didn't clog up the 'deals' site because it isn't a deal in the definition of the guidelines.

              But calling me out on something when you know nothing about me really tells me a lot about you.
              Hypocrite much?

              • Nalar on 20/12/2018 - 09:16
                +1

                @dasher86: 1 hour 5 mins. I expected at least 2 hours.

              • tranter on 20/12/2018 - 09:30

                @dasher86: I could well be a hypocrite. That's the way it should be dasher, calling out people's behaviour just as you did!

                It's more productive than blaming the person on the receiving end.

                • dasher86 on 20/12/2018 - 09:41

                  @tranter: sometimes 'victim' blaming in the correct context, and I mean correct is required or people wouldn't learn lessons.
                  How you got about blaming somebody and the way you conduct the feedback is completely different.
                  As above I was not condoning people to be rude, I was simply stating users should read guidelines and they may get more positive feedback to their posts.
                  I'll end here.
                  Respectfully Yours,
                  D.

                • HighAndDry on 20/12/2018 - 09:45
                  -1

                  @tranter: Exactly! You're being called a hypocrite because you acted like one. Others are being called out for whining or not reading the rules because they are whining or didn't actually read the rules.

                  Seems pretty consistent to me.

                  • tranter on 20/12/2018 - 09:51
                    +1

                    @HighAndDry: Consistent is not the same as balanced.

                    • HighAndDry on 20/12/2018 - 09:52
                      -1

                      @tranter: Who mentioned balanced? What are you trying to balance anyway? As an example, have a look at this thread:

                      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/426275

                      Order placed 10 days ago. Cancelled 5 days ago. Refund processed in 3 days, and OP is still whining that Umart is the reason he almost couldn't pay rent. F'ing ridiculous.

            • HighAndDry on 20/12/2018 - 11:13
              +1

              @tranter:

              It tells me a lot about you when you blame people's rude and attacking behaviour on somebody else.

              Nice.

              Passive-aggressive, snarky, attacking someone else's character, all while trying to argue that people ought to be nicer.

              Great look. 10/10. A+ for effort.

        • Seedy seed on 20/12/2018 - 19:08
          -2

          Lol i personally hate "im new so be nice" makes me wanna attack them rofl.. i respect a man/lady who can stand on their own.

    • Some Human on 20/12/2018 - 10:03
      +6

      This is what often stops me from posting deals.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 20/12/2018 - 11:24

      I want to see the best deals possible. If that means dissuading posters who can't handle scrutiny, so be it. We're not OzSupportMediocreDeals.

    • magic8ballgag on 21/12/2018 - 08:46

      I don't understand how it was a small error, why should you be exempt from reading the rules associated with submitting a deal, purely because you're new to the site?

    • parisienne on 21/12/2018 - 19:02
      +1

      Amen jamiesclub.If all those points need to be addressed prior to posting,who in the world would actually post ? Do those who call others on this meet these criteria in full every time they post ? I have posted a couple of sales that i thought were pretty good / not everyone would know about unless you subscribed to the site,and was responded to for that by both being negged to oblivion and getting some pretty crappy / smart a@$e comments in return (along the lines of "you said it was 30% off,it was only 27% and you didn't mention the shipping was extra for orders under x amount").The next time i posted a sale,i thought i would "cover thy ar$@" (and hopefully deter bullying comments by stating that i "hadn't done the math,if you want to,go nuts,BUT the site states this"…..that led to a handful of remarks that i began to read,then i stopped,as i didn't need to be drawn into the toxic environment that was brewing,but i learn't that 1:People will dish out,but aren't to keen to be called on it,and 2:Never will i post any sale i find out about ever again.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 22/12/2018 - 02:48

        If all those points need to be addressed prior to posting,who in the world would actually post ?

        Most of the ones who post good deals at the present.

  • Savas on 20/12/2018 - 08:44
    +10

    people are always nice here

    • ronnknee on 20/12/2018 - 08:47
      +2

      Shut the front door.

      • [Deactivated] on 20/12/2018 - 08:52
        +5

        Back door permanently shut

    • sss333 on 20/12/2018 - 09:11
      +11

      Honestly if people find OzBargain toxic, I really wonder how much of the internet they've been on and how many people they've met in the real world.

  • Ryanek on 20/12/2018 - 08:53
    +2

    How dare you assume that I wash my face.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 20/12/2018 - 11:36
      +2

      Reported OP for insensitivity to bots.

  • Clear on 20/12/2018 - 09:15
    +3

    Blatant abuse of price error deals to try and get compensation followed by tantrums if they don't.

  • askme69 on 20/12/2018 - 09:20

    My last good bargain I found on here was 6 months ago.

    Now it seems, 10% off is a bargain.

  • Moderatorscotty on 20/12/2018 - 09:21

    Unfortunately you are looking at Internet culture in general, of people posting & commenting behind pseudo-anonymity with limited consequences. I can assure you that the moderators are working on and trying to address the issues here (majority of human resources we spent on this site is in moderation). However we also need to strike a balance otherwise it might lead to over-moderation, which we often have been accused of as well.

    Also note that OzBargain moderators are not able to read all the comments. If you find things "toxic", please report the comment or use Talk with a Moderator forum.

    Just a reminder to everyone. Please Act Respectfully, i.e. THINK before you post.

    • dasher86 on 20/12/2018 - 09:28

      Respectfully :)

    • Wystri Warrick on 20/12/2018 - 09:36
      +4

      1+

      Merry Christmas Scotty and all the mods and a happy new year! =D

    • HighAndDry on 20/12/2018 - 10:21
      -2

      Unfortunately you are looking at Internet culture in general, of people posting & commenting behind pseudo-anonymity with limited consequences.

      I disagree that the premise behind OP's post is even valid at all. It's more unfortunate that OP has such a low threshold for what they consider "toxic". It's no one else's problem that they can't deal with opinions that aren't sugar-coated.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 20/12/2018 - 11:40
      +5

      THINK before you post.

      And if not, edit.

    • D C on 20/12/2018 - 12:21
      +1

      i.e. THINK before you post.

      And often that thought should be "I wonder what Google says…"

      …"oh look, eleventy billion & three hits on how to solve my problem. Maybe I don't need to post on OzBargain after all."

      • Zachary on 21/12/2018 - 15:38

        Yeah but who's gonna go through all 11000000003 hits to find the right one that works for you, unless you actually do(you've have to slow down time or even pause it to have enough time to go through all those hits….or use a program to search the answers for you….but you still need to read them unless you're a robot who can just attach a cord to your head to upload the data and read them in planckseconds…)? It'd be easier just to go through the first page, maybe a couple or a few more just to make sure and to put in a bit of actual effort of searching and then post the issue on the forums hoping someone with similar experience would answer your question or if not, would provide a solution if they have the know how…

        Of if you're extremely busy and do actually have better things to do with your time but also wanting a solution to your issue is to just post on the forums without prior research and get answers that way, hopefully without any judgemental answers….

    • payton on 21/12/2018 - 00:42
      -2

      ok, realtalk

      Once a certain basic threshold of decency is met, additional moderation is a moot point. Its not just a diminishing return, its actually detrimental.
      Yes, 99.999% of posts ought to be contributing in some way, even if its pointing out how foolish the poster's question or line of thought is.

      Reminds me of this
      Replace 'misogyny' with toxic culture.
      People put forth a laughable, illogical opinion; gets non-serious comedic replies in return, and suddenly 'Ozbargain is toxic!' thread is created, and Moderators are accused of not doing enough.

      I'm just a user here, but the thought of this place turning into a SJW safespace (like so many other places already are) is :(

      Remember how once upon a time a little subculture demanded a whole page of guidelines be created to cater them, after the …. free glove incident?
      I note also a lot of posters here
      1. are actually knowledgeable
      2. they put forward their position in an argument, and what's backing said stance. Over there in WP, someone said something something unpopular, and the rest of the population spends the next 7 days doing personal attacks.

    • bobwokeup on 22/12/2018 - 00:37
      +1

      I disagree, it is worse on Ozbargain because you can hide behind a profile that could be anyone. People say whatever they want on Ozbargain and don't abide by any rules. Most are respectful as that is there nature but there are too many that pull the piss.

  • Diji1 on 20/12/2018 - 09:28
    +3

    I can tell you how to get rid of almost all of the toxicity:

    Charge $25 per account.

    :D

    • ChillBro on 20/12/2018 - 09:33

      The total number of accounts the day after: 0.

      I think OCAU did it well, they required everyone to use a legit email address (I.e. Nothing from a free service like gmail/hotmail/yahoo)

      • dasher86 on 20/12/2018 - 10:50
        +1

        I don't have a legit email then.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 20/12/2018 - 11:43
          +3

          Who wants to only talk to old fuddy-duddies with Bigpond email accounts!?

        • magic8ballgag on 21/12/2018 - 08:50

          The majority also do not apparently.

      • ozbjunkie on 21/12/2018 - 14:36

        As I sit here with an ocau account linked to a Gmail.

        • Zachary on 21/12/2018 - 15:39

          How did you sign up with a free account??

          • ozbjunkie on 21/12/2018 - 20:35

            @Zachary: Was about 9 months ago. Didn't do anything special. Unless something has changed. What you have to pay for ocau forums now?

            • Zachary on 22/12/2018 - 17:12

              @ozbjunkie: Nah I signed up like 3 years ago….couldn't use either gmail, hotmail or ymail…..had to link it to my tpg account……which was the only acceptable email address…..

              But not sure now, maybe they are now charging people to join the forums? Well if not you kinda have to pay for a premium address anyhow, whether that be indirectly through your ISP or directly through a paid email service….

    • Clear on 20/12/2018 - 09:35
      +3

      Plus $30 cashback at SB/CR. $5 profit :)

      • scotty on 20/12/2018 - 09:37
        +2

        $5 profit

        Before or after coupon code & AmEx statement offer?

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